Did Gov. Connally meet with Jack Ruby at the Carousel?

[Leslie Sharp]

To set the stage:

@Greg Doudna, frequent poster on EF and skeptic of the datebook maintained by intel contractor Pierre Lafitte ergo highly critical of Albarelli's Coup in Dallas, recently introduced an analysis of the claims made by James Odell Estes that he had seen Governor John Connally at a meeting with Jack Ruby at the Carousel Club which was also attended by another man referred to as "Nick."
 

Greg writes, A Marcello payoff to Connally?

About 5 days or so later Estes saw "Lee" again with a man named "Nick" (well-dressed mobster type driving a maroon Cadillac with Louisiana plates). "Lee" and Nick went to Ruby's office. A two hour meeting, after which Estes says the bartender named "Mike" literally broke all the glasswear used in that meeting--the wine bottles and the glasses used--and disposed of it. (To avoid risk of fingerprints? Estes does not say.)

The next day, mid-PM, Estes said he saw Lee, Nick, and Chuck come in the back door of the Carousel Club and go to Ruby's office. 15 minutes later Chuck went down and met two men coming in the back door. One, says Estes, was Governor Connally. Connally the governor of Texas. 

Comment: on its face this looks like a story of a bribe being paid to Connally, with "Nick" the well-dressed mobster type from Louisiana maybe from some mob connection in New Orleans (source of the money?). . . 

 'Nick" -- well-dressed, flashy jewelry, "mob" type visiting from Louisiana, unspecified business with Ruby, New Orleans accent, age 30s-40s, 6'2", 200-plus lbs, big man, moustache, black hair cut short, drove maroon Cadillac with Louisiana plates

A serious candidate for "Nick" is New Orleans businessman Nicholas Popich, thirty-four years of age in 1963.

https://obits.nola.com/us/obituaries/nola/name/nicholas-popich-obituary?id=10203236

Nick Popich, founder of Popich Marine Construction, was co-owner and operator of Vieux Carré, one of numerous Carlos Marcello restaurant investments in the French Quarter.  For our interests, Hank Albarelli has reported that Pierre Lafitte was employed as a sous chef in NOLA in the early 1960s and although the private dining club in Clay Shaw's original Trade Mart — precursor to the Plimsoll Club which opened in the new building in 1967 with Lafitte hired as head chef — is a reasonable option, it's logical to also consider that Nick Popich/Carlos Marcello employed Lafitte at the Vieux Carré in the early 1960s.  During that period, Lafitte also worked briefly at Reily Coffee sometime prior to Lee Harvey Oswald and Judyth Baker.  

Documents confirm that Nick Popich also had a longstanding personal and business relationship with William "Bill" Dalzell, a subject of keen interest to FBI SA William de Brueys and a character who appears in Lafitte's 1963 datebook.

It was also "Nick" Popich who hosted the May 1963 Bobby Baker entourage in New Orleans which included his girlfriend Carole Tyler, Paul Aguirre (Puerto Rican developer), and alleged East German honey trap Ellen Rometsch who is referred to frequently in Pierre Lafitte's 1963 records. Govt. docs confirm that Rometsch, alleged to have had several sexual encounters with President Kennedy, would quietly return to East Germany following intense scrutiny by Hoover's FBI in the summer of '63.

Kennedy's good friend since their Senate days, Florida Sen. Sen. George Smathers is identified in an obscure gossip column as having been familiar with Baker's trip to NOLA with Rometsch. Smathers had been instrumental in seeing to it that Bobby Baker would benefit from the newly established Serv-U Corporation. Of note, Lafitte is also aware of their presence in Dallas, making a note that Carole was there followed by the initials G.D. (might this refer to General Dynamics of Ft. Worth?).

As an aside, it is well documented that Smathers was responsible for Judyth Baker’s arrival in New Orleans within days of the Baker/Tyler/Aguirre/Rometsch trip which was, coincidentally, around the time of Judyth's initial encounter with LHO. 

 
Now, to the alleged episode at the Carousel Club as described by James Odell Estes, and a working hypothesis:

I know we all agreed in our last call that the possibility of John Connally waltzing into the Carousel Club, as per the claims of James Odell Estes, might broach the absurd, but in light of Connally's history with both Texas oilman Clint Murchison and Bobby Baker and the brewing TFX scandal at the time of the Baker/Carole/Ella trip to Dallas and New Orleans, the possibility that Connally might risk a personal appearance at the Carousel warrants further consideration. Remember that Connally was Sec. Navy a member of JCS when Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara insisted the TFX project be jump started.

 

 

I think I shared that Gov. Connally's history with Bobby Baker and with Clint Murchison  prompted me to reconsider Odell Estes' claims. Setting aside his story about "Lee," the references to "Nick" at the meeting(s) with Ruby and a man he believed to be Governor John Connally added further fuel.  I believe the prime candidate for Nick, to date, would be Nick Popich who had hosted Baker and Carole, and Aguirre, and Ella in NOLA in May. 

 

An initial stab at advancing the argument: Connally had been responsible for Murchison's prized lobbyist Bobby Baker's early rise in the Democratic Party in the 1940s when he encouraged Sen. Lyndon Johnson to bring him on board his staff.  Barring any significant shift in their relationship, it's reasonable to assume Connally and Baker remained friendly even if at arm's length in 1963 when Murchison and Baker were engaged in numerous shady business deals including in Haiti.

Connally was also the long time attorney for Murchison's partner Sid Richardson and had assumed responsibility for the hugely successful independent oilman's estate upon his death in the fall of 1959; in that role Connally joined Murchison's board of the Del Mar Race Track so we have at least one practical pivot point to connect both Murchison and Baker directly with Connally in 1963. Remember also that FBI Dir. J. Edgar Hoover was the guest of Murchison in Del Mar in August 1963 — just weeks after his agents discretely interviewed Ellen Rometsch about her liaisons formed with DC powerbrokers while working at Baker's Quorum Club  — as was his annual custom.  

 

From there, we pivot back to Bobby Baker's association with Sen. George Smathers, Kennedy confidant Grant Stockdale, and Serv-U Corp, prompting our attention toward Pennsylvania developer Matthew McClosky who also invested in Serv-U. Weirdly, the newly appointed Amb. to Ireland McClosky along with previous Amb. Scott McLeod — former agent of the FBI and drinking buddy of Robert Maheau — were bookends to Grant Stockdale's ambassadorial post to Dublin.

 

Lafitte's datebook indicates Stockdale and SS Otto Skorzeny were still in communication in 1963 and Hank indicates that Ilse Skorzeny visited the Stockdales in Florida. It should also be noted that Murchison's partner Sid Richardson commissioned the Dallas-based O'Neil Ford architectural firm which included a young Arch Swank to design a compound in the Canary Islands, a destination (according to Major Ralph Ganis) of OAS Captain Jean Rene Souetre and Otto Skorzeny in early '63.  The Richardson compound had been sold by then, so I'm not suggesting any training took place on this property. I'm simply noting the coincidence.  For the record, Arch's wife, Patsy Swank was instrumental in Dick Stolley rushing to Dallas to negotiate on behalf of Time/LIFE for the Zapruder film.)

 

Note: In 1957, Eisenhower's Amb. to Ireland Scott McLeod — a drinking buddy of Robert Maheu —  was in position to establish initial rapport with Otto and Ilse as they made inroads into the purchase of property in Co. Kildare, near a major military training facility. McLeod would have then handed the couple off to Grant Stockdale in '61, who then handed them off to his colleague at Serv-U, Matthew McClosky in late '62.  

 

Thru Serv-U Corp, McClosky had obviously also associated with George Smathers and Bobby Baker; throughout 1963 as the Serve-U scandal surfaced, McClosky was posted at the embassy in Dublin while  the Skorzenys were developing strategy for the plot to assassinate Kennedy in Dallas — details of which could have taken place under his nose and/or that of the Franco's representatives in Dublin.  And not to overstate the connection, but McClosky had recently served as treasurer of the Dem National Committee with obvious close ties to Lyndon Johnson and John Connally. 

 

Considering this milieu, and the possibility Estes was a credible witness recounting a meeting with "Nick,"  Ruby and Connally:  If Nick Popich was Baker's good friend as suggested in news accounts of the New Orleans trip with Rometsch, and Baker was Murchison's trusted lobbyist, is it possible that both Popich and Bobby Baker also knew Murchison's representative/attorney for his dealings in Haiti, Herbert Itkin?   Recall that Itkin also had longstanding connections in Haiti on behalf of Oswald's friend George de Mohrenschildt. Further, in July, Haiti was on the mind of the gunrunner Jack Ruby worried most about, Tom Davis, identified in Lafitte's datebook.  Lafitte leaves us clues to all but Connally.  Why?
 

Which brings us full circle to the question: should James Odell Estes's story about meetings between "Nick" Popich, Gov. Connally and Jack Ruby be dismissed out of hand?  Or, should we ask what else could have been in play that might compel John Connally to risk a meeting at Ruby's Carousel with another "Nick"? 

 

This document may shed further light on the Itkin entries in the Lafitte datebook, and possible relevance to the aforementioned.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=12882#relPageId=2

 

 

 

Notes on John Connally in context of Lafitte records:

·      John M. Connally was instrumental in LBJ hiring Bobby Baker in 1948

·      Connally is co-executor of estate of oilman Sid Richardson beginning 1959, and board member of Del Mar Race Track

·      LBJ is instrumental in JFK's appointment of Connally as Sec. of Navy 1961

·      Air Force and Navy had been seeking new aircraft when McNamara was appointed Sec Def 1961

·      McNamara ordered go ahead of TFX (Tactical fighter Experimental) in June 1961

·      Proposals received from Boeing, Lockheed, McDonnell, North American, Republic National, and General Dynamics

·      Former Sec Army Frank Pace was President and CEO of General Dynamics from 1957-1962; he was replaced in February ’62 by asst. Sec Air Force Roger Lewis. Chicago industrialist Henry Crown was the major shareholder of GD and heavily invested in Conrad Hilton Hotels

·      Pace was on the board of Nation-Wide Securities Wall Street investment firm intermittently with Ret. Gen. Maxwell Taylor, Ret. Admiral R. B. Carney, and Allen Dulles.

·      Connally was Sec. Navy a member of the Joint Chiefs during the Bay of Pigs invasion; Kennedy tasked him to determine the strength required for intervention in Laos if it became necessary.

·      Connally resigned to run for TX Governor December 1961

·      Kennedy replaced Connally as Sec Navy with Fred Korth, president of Continental National Bank of Fort Worth January 1962

·      Boeing and General Dynamics with their largest plant based in Fort Worth were selected to submit enhanced design followed by two additional updates for the TFX

·      Boeing was picked by the selection board

·      However, November 1962, McNamara selected General Dynamics and a contract signed December 1962

·      Congressional investigation followed but did not change the selection

·      Winning proposal was later designated the General Dynamics F-111 Aardvark

·      Nickel has been essential mineral in production of high temp aerospace alloys since 1950s.

·      Connally was inaugurated governor of Texas January 1963

·      Bobby Baker’s role in the F-111 scandal is exposed.

·      Nick Popich and Bill Dalzell in pursuit of offshore drilling rights in the Red Sea

·      Lafitte entry April 17 Dalzell K $ for drilling

·      Lafitte entry April 21 Carole – Dallas – G.D.

·      Lafitte entry May 14 Carole - (airport [with strikethrough]) Paul Aguirre - Others?

·      May 1963, Bobby Baker trip to New Orleans with girlfriend Carole Tyler, Puerto Rican developer Paul Aguirre and Ellen Rometsch hosted by Nick Popich of Popich Marine Construction

·      Lafitte entry June 7 Else and W. wife = shipment $ - John Wilson-H’ ———Ruby

·      Lafitte entry June 25 nickle [sic] deposits $ Skorzeny (talk Else) NY

·      Jack Ruby notes October 29 John Wilson — bond

·      Lafitte entry October 30 Ruby – Wilson-H – Bond . . . -call Ilse NY 

·      Korth’s Continental National of Ft. Worth was one of a number of banks which participated in the line of credit for the TFX / F-111

·      Korth resigned as Sec Navy November 1, 1963

       Lafitte entry Nov. 20 . . . call de M . . . 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Leslie Sharp
accuracy

[Michael Griffith]

8 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:

To set the stage:

@Greg Doudna, frequent poster on EF and skeptic of the datebook maintained by intel contractor Pierre Lafitte ergo highly critical of Albarelli's Coup in Dallas, recently introduced an analysis of the claims made by James Odell Estes that he had seen Governor John Connally at a meeting with Jack Ruby at the Carousel Club which was also attended by another man referred to as "Nick."
 

Greg writes, A Marcello payoff to Connally?

About 5 days or so later Estes saw "Lee" again with a man named "Nick" (well-dressed mobster type driving a maroon Cadillac with Louisiana plates). "Lee" and Nick went to Ruby's office. A two hour meeting, after which Estes says the bartender named "Mike" literally broke all the glasswear used in that meeting--the wine bottles and the glasses used--and disposed of it. (To avoid risk of fingerprints? Estes does not say.)

The next day, mid-PM, Estes said he saw Lee, Nick, and Chuck come in the back door of the Carousel Club and go to Ruby's office. 15 minutes later Chuck went down and met two men coming in the back door. One, says Estes, was Governor Connally. Connally the governor of Texas. 

Comment: on its face this looks like a story of a bribe being paid to Connally, with "Nick" the well-dressed mobster type from Louisiana maybe from some mob connection in New Orleans (source of the money?). . . 

 'Nick" -- well-dressed, flashy jewelry, "mob" type visiting from Louisiana, unspecified business with Ruby, New Orleans accent, age 30s-40s, 6'2", 200-plus lbs, big man, moustache, black hair cut short, drove maroon Cadillac with Louisiana plates

A serious candidate for "Nick" is New Orleans businessman Nicholas Popich, thirty-four years of age in 1963.

https://obits.nola.com/us/obituaries/nola/name/nicholas-popich-obituary?id=10203236

Nick Popich, founder of Popich Marine Construction, was co-owner and operator of Vieux Carré, one of numerous Carlos Marcello restaurant investments in the French Quarter.  For our interests, Hank Albarelli has reported that Pierre Lafitte was employed as a sous chef in NOLA in the early 1960s and although the private dining club in Clay Shaw's original Trade Mart — precursor to the Plimsoll Club which opened in the new building in 1967 with Lafitte hired as head chef — is a reasonable option, it's logical to also consider that Nick Popich/Carlos Marcello employed Lafitte at the Vieux Carré in the early 1960s.  During that period, Lafitte also worked briefly at Reily Coffee sometime prior to Lee Harvey Oswald and Judyth Baker.  

Documents confirm that Nick Popich also had a longstanding personal and business relationship with William "Bill" Dalzell, a subject of keen interest to FBI SA William de Brueys and a character who appears in Lafitte's 1963 datebook.

It was also "Nick" Popich who hosted the May 1963 Bobby Baker entourage in New Orleans which included his girlfriend Carole Tyler, Paul Aguirre (Puerto Rican developer), and alleged East German honey trap Ellen Rometsch who is referred to frequently in Pierre Lafitte's 1963 records. Govt. docs confirm that Rometsch, alleged to have had several sexual encounters with President Kennedy, would quietly return to East Germany following intense scrutiny by Hoover's FBI in the summer of '63.

Kennedy's good friend since their Senate days, Florida Sen. Sen. George Smathers is identified in an obscure gossip column as having been familiar with Baker's trip to NOLA with Rometsch. Smathers had been instrumental in seeing to it that Bobby Baker would benefit from the newly established Serv-U Corporation. Of note, Lafitte is also aware of their presence in Dallas, making a note that Carole was there followed by the initials G.D. (might this refer to General Dynamics of Ft. Worth?).

As an aside, it is well documented that Smathers was responsible for Judyth Baker’s arrival in New Orleans within days of the Baker/Tyler/Aguirre/Rometsch trip which was, coincidentally, around the time of Judyth's initial encounter with LHO. 

 
Now, to the alleged episode at the Carousel Club as described by James Odell Estes, and a working hypothesis:

I know we all agreed in our last call that the possibility of John Connally waltzing into the Carousel Club, as per the claims of James Odell Estes, might broach the absurd, but in light of Connally's history with both Texas oilman Clint Murchison and Bobby Baker and the brewing TFX scandal at the time of the Baker/Carole/Ella trip to Dallas and New Orleans, the possibility that Connally might risk a personal appearance at the Carousel warrants further consideration. Remember that Connally was a member of JCS when Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara insisted the TFX project be jump started.

 

 

I think I shared that Gov. Connally's history with Bobby Baker and with Clint Murchison  prompted me to reconsider Odell Estes' claims. Setting aside his story about "Lee," the references to "Nick" at the meeting(s) with Ruby and a man he believed to be Governor John Connally added further fuel.  I believe the prime candidate for Nick, to date, would be Nick Popich who had hosted Baker and Carole, and Aguirre, and Ella in NOLA in May. 

 

An initial stab at advancing the argument: Connally had been responsible for Murchison's prized lobbyist Bobby Baker's early rise in the Democratic Party in the 1940s when he encouraged Sen. Lyndon Johnson to bring him on board his staff.  Barring any significant shift in their relationship, it's reasonable to assume Connally and Baker remained friendly even if at arm's length in 1963 when Murchison and Baker were engaged in numerous shady business deals including in Haiti.

Connally was also the long time attorney for Murchison's partner Sid Richardson and had assumed responsibility for the hugely successful independent oilman's estate upon his death in the fall of 1959; in that role Connally joined Murchison's board of the Del Mar Race Track so we have at least one practical pivot point to connect both Murchison and Baker directly with Connally in 1963. Remember also that FBI Dir. J. Edgar Hoover was the guest of Murchison in Del Mar in August 1963 — just weeks after his agents discretely interviewed Ellen Rometsch about her liaisons formed with DC powerbrokers while working at Baker's Quorum Club  — as was his annual custom.  

 

From there, we pivot back to Bobby Baker's association with Sen. George Smathers, Kennedy confidant Grant Stockdale, and Serv-U Corp, prompting our attention toward Pennsylvania developer Matthew McClosky who also invested in Serv-U. Weirdly, the newly appointed Amb. to Ireland McClosky along with previous Amb. Scott McLeod — former agent of the FBI and drinking buddy of Robert Maheau — were bookends to Grant Stockdale's ambassadorial post to Dublin.

 

Lafitte's datebook indicates Stockdale and SS Otto Skorzeny were still in communication in 1963 and Hank indicates that Ilse Skorzeny visited the Stockdales in Florida. It should also be noted that Murchison's partner Sid Richardson commissioned the Dallas-based O'Neil Ford architectural firm which included a young Arch Swank to design a compound in the Canary Islands, a destination (according to Major Ralph Ganis) of OAS Captain Jean Rene Souetre and Otto Skorzeny in early '63.  The Richardson compound had been sold by then, so I'm not suggesting any training took place on this property. I'm simply noting the coincidence.  For the record, Arch's wife, Patsy Swank was instrumental in Dick Stolley rushing to Dallas to negotiate on behalf of Time/LIFE for the Zapruder film.)

 

Note: In 1957, Eisenhower's Amb. to Ireland Scott McLeod — a drinking buddy of Robert Maheu —  was in position to establish initial rapport with Otto and Ilse as they made inroads into the purchase of property in Co. Kildare, near a major military training facility. McLeod would have then handed the couple off to Grant Stockdale in '61, who then handed them off to his colleague at Serv-U, Matthew McClosky in late '62.  

 

Thru Serv-U Corp, McClosky had obviously also associated with George Smathers and Bobby Baker; throughout 1963 as the Serve-U scandal surfaced, McClosky was posted at the embassy in Dublin while  the Skorzenys were developing strategy for the plot to assassinate Kennedy in Dallas — details of which could have taken place under his nose and/or that of the Franco's representatives in Dublin.  And not to overstate the connection, but McClosky had recently served as treasurer of the Dem National Committee with obvious close ties to Lyndon Johnson and John Connally. 

 

Considering this milieu, and the possibility Estes was a credible witness recounting a meeting with "Nick,"  Ruby and Connally:  If Nick Popich was Baker's good friend as suggested in news accounts of the New Orleans trip with Rometsch, and Baker was Murchison's trusted lobbyist, is it possible that both Popich and Bobby Baker also knew Murchison's representative/attorney for his dealings in Haiti, Herbert Itkin?   Recall that Itkin also had longstanding connections in Haiti on behalf of Oswald's friend George de Mohrenschildt. Further, in July, Haiti was on the mind of the gunrunner Jack Ruby worried most about, Tom Davis, identified in Lafitte's datebook.  Lafitte leaves us clues to all but Connally.  Why?
 

Which brings us full circle to the question: should James Odell Estes's story about meetings between "Nick" Popich, Gov. Connally and Jack Ruby be dismissed out of hand?  Or, should we ask what else could have been in play that might compel John Connally to risk a meeting at Ruby's Carousel with another "Nick"? 

 

This document may shed further light on the Itkin entries in the Lafitte datebook, and possible relevance to the aforementioned.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=12882#relPageId=2

 

 

 

Notes on John Connally in context of Lafitte records:

·      John M. Connally was instrumental in LBJ hiring Bobby Baker in 1948

·      Connally is co-executor of estate of oilman Sid Richardson beginning 1959, and board member of Del Mar Race Track

·      LBJ is instrumental in JFK's appointment of Connally as Sec. of Navy 1961

·      Air Force and Navy had been seeking new aircraft when McNamara was appointed Sec Def 1961

·      McNamara ordered go ahead of TFX (Tactical fighter Experimental) in June 1961

·      Proposals received from Boeing, Lockheed, McDonnell, North American, Republic National, and General Dynamics

·      Former Sec Army Frank Pace was President and CEO of General Dynamics from 1957-1962; he was replaced in February ’62 by asst. Sec Air Force Roger Lewis. Chicago industrialist Henry Crown was the major shareholder of GD and heavily invested in Conrad Hilton Hotels

·      Pace was on the board of Nation-Wide Securities Wall Street investment firm intermittently with Ret. Gen. Maxwell Taylor, Ret. Admiral R. B. Carney, and Allen Dulles.

·      Connally was a member of the Joint Chiefs during the Bay of Pigs invasion; Kennedy tasked him to determine the strength required for intervention in Laos if it became necessary.

·      Connally resigned to run for TX Governor December 1961

·      Kennedy replaced Connally as Sec Navy with Fred Korth, president of Continental National Bank of Fort Worth January 1962

·      Boeing and General Dynamics with their largest plant based in Fort Worth were selected to submit enhanced design followed by two additional updates for the TFX

·      Boeing was picked by the selection board

·      However, November 1962, McNamara selected General Dynamics and a contract signed December 1962

·      Congressional investigation followed but did not change the selection

·      Winning proposal was later designated the General Dynamics F-111 Aardvark

·      Nickel has been essential mineral in production of high temp aerospace alloys since 1950s.

·      Connally was inaugurated governor of Texas January 1963

·      Bobby Baker’s role in the F-111 scandal is exposed.

·      Nick Popich and Bill Dalzell in pursuit of offshore drilling rights in the Red Sea

·      Lafitte entry April 17 Dalzell K $ for drilling

·      Lafitte entry April 21 Carole – Dallas – G.D.

·      Lafitte entry May 14 Carole - (airport [with strikethrough]) Paul Aguirre - Others?

·      May 1963, Bobby Baker trip to New Orleans with girlfriend Carole Tyler, Puerto Rican developer Paul Aguirre and Ellen Rometsch hosted by Nick Popich of Popich Marine Construction

·      Lafitte entry June 7 Else and W. wife = shipment $ - John Wilson-H’ ———Ruby

·      Lafitte entry June 25 nickle [sic] deposits $ Skorzeny (talk Else) NY

·      Jack Ruby notes October 29 John Wilson — bond

·      Lafitte entry October 30 Ruby – Wilson-H – Bond . . . -call Ilse NY 

·      Korth’s Continental National of Ft. Worth was one of a number of banks which participated in the line of credit for the TFX / F-111

·      Korth resigned as Sec Navy November 1, 1963

       Lafitte entry Nov. 20 . . . call de M . . . 

One correction: Connally was not a member of the Joint Chiefs. He was Secretary of the Navy, a civilian position that was entirely separate from the JCS.

I am undecided about the Estes account of Connally meeting with Ruby at the Carousel Club. The information in your post causes me to be a bit more open to the possibility that the meeting occurred.

[Paul Jolliffe]

Leslie,

I too think it likely that Odell "James" Estes told an essentially correct story to the FBI in 1977. His account of a Connally/"Nick"/Ruby meeting is credible to me. 

You've speculated as to "Nick's" possible identity, and you may be on to something. I will not say you are wrong, merely that I think there are other legitimate candidates for "Nick's" identity. 

Connally was certainly NOT above meeting with a shady character such as Ruby if a considerable payoff or bribe was involved. 

That's exactly what Estes described (without calling it that), and I believe him.

[Leslie Sharp]

7 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

One correction: Connally was not a member of the Joint Chiefs. He was Secretary of the Navy, a civilian position that was entirely separate from the JCS.

I am undecided about the Estes account of Connally meeting with Ruby at the Carousel Club. The information in your post causes me to be a bit more open to the possibility that the meeting occurred.

Thanks for that, Michael.  I'll make the correction.  I think it still stands that he was in the loop.

It's a bit outlandish that he would take the risk, but if one factors in the potential seriousness, perhaps he decided it was worth it.  "Nick" couldn't pull up in front of the Governor's Mansion with a suitcase full of cash unnoticed; but if $$$ was the sole purpose of the meet, why not simply send a bag man? 

[Leslie Sharp]

1 hour ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Leslie,

I too think it likely that Odell "James" Estes told an essentially correct story to the FBI in 1977. His account of a Connally/"Nick"/Ruby meeting is credible to me. 

You've speculated as to "Nick's" possible identity, and you may be on to something. I will not say you are wrong, merely that I think there are other legitimate candidates for "Nick's" identity. 

Connally was certainly NOT above meeting with a shady character such as Ruby if a considerable payoff or bribe was involved. 

That's exactly what Estes described (without calling it that), and I believe him.

thanks Paul, and as I shared with Michael,
It's a bit outlandish that he would take the risk, but if one factors in the potential seriousness, perhaps he decided it was worth it.  "Nick" couldn't pull up in front of the Governor's Mansion with a suitcase full of cash unnoticed; but if $$$ was the sole purpose of the meet, why not simply send a bag man? 
Other candidates for Nick don't hold up as well, in my view. Those put forward previously in Greg's thread fall short in either physical description or propinquity with Connally.  

As an aside, I recently came across a link that included reference to an accountant of Ruby's by the name of John Connally.  I did a double take, but decided it was likely an error — a conflation of Estes's story and Ruby's accountant.  Unfortunately, I failed to tag the site and can't reproduce my search, (yet).  It would be an extraordinary coincidence.

[Joe Bauer]

Don't forget Ruby's Carousel was right across the street from the famous Adolphus Hotel where LBJ himself stayed from time to time.

Not exactly the seediest part of town.

And hasn't it been reported that H.L. Hunt actually went to the Carousel once or twice. And Dallas DA Henry Wade?

Point being the visiting of Connally there, discreetly, through the back stairs and during the day may not be so improbable.

[Paul Jolliffe]

On 10/14/2023 at 12:46 AM, Joe Bauer said:

Don't forget Ruby's Carousel was right across the street from the famous Adolphus Hotel where LBJ himself stayed from time to time.

Not exactly the seediest part of town.

And hasn't it been reported that H.L. Hunt actually went to the Carousel once or twice. And Dallas DA Henry Wade?

Point being the visiting of Connally there, discreetly, through the back stairs and during the day may not be so improbable.

Good point - the location directly across the street from the Adolphus Hotel would minimize the travel time from the payoff site to the secure location, presumably the hotel.

I think it's likely that no bagman could make an official visit to either the governor's mansion nor the governor's office without being noted by either security or clerical personnel. Further, I think it likely that the bribers (or payoff moneymen) would want to see Connally in person take the cash as part of the deal (whatever it was.) He couldn't weasel out of it later and deny knowledge of the transaction if he was the one who physically took possession of the cash. 

So a clandestine meeting in Ruby's office at the Carousel might have been just the ideal place for such a transaction, as described by Estes.

Again, I think it is very plausible (but certainly not proven beyond any doubt.)

However, unlike most of the commenters on this topic, I think Estes's claim that he met and repeatedly interacted with someone he knew as "Lee Oswald" in July and August of 1963 at Ruby's club is also credible. 

Yes, I know that our man "Oswald" really was in New Orleans at the time. But somebody else was calling themselves "Lee Oswald" at Ruby's club that summer for reasons unknown, and the identity of that person remains a mystery.