Walker, West 5th and the missing License Plate Photo

[Tony Krome]

5 hours ago, Jean Ceulemans said:

Excellent idea with the map! If we keep that updated, it will help.

1. Can we note on there at 2511, that in 1961, it had the Randle phone number.

2. At 2435, in April 1960, Bruce W. Vickes was there, and worked at the Dallas Times Herald

[Jean Ceulemans]

In this strange world of the JFKA a Ruby connection is always there.

After 60 years we are not even close to the speed of light... but it sure feels like getting lost in the 4-th dimension...

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Jean Ceulemans

[Tony Krome]

7 minutes ago, Jean Ceulemans said:

In this strange world of the JFKA a Ruby connection is always there.

After 60 years we are not even close to the speed of light... but it sure feels like getting lost in the 4-th dimension...

We gonna need a bigger map! haha

[Jean Ceulemans]

I must have been looking in the wrong places, but I can find zero on 2503 ?

I don't have acces to phonebooks or other  listings, anyone ?

 

[Tony Krome]

7 minutes ago, Jean Ceulemans said:

2503

I have that as vacant at the time of the assassination. It had been previously put up for sale in October 1959.

[Greg Doudna]

2 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Greg, while you were snoozing, I found that Dial Ryder graduated in 1957, and married Peggie Jones in 1959. Does that change your above assessment?

Yes. It excludes the idea of a non-updated drivers’ license as an explanation for why Peggie’s address in that December news article is given as her parents’ address, and not Dial’s address.

In the absence of better information, it looks like either (a) some time between Nov 23 or Nov 28 and mid-December, Peggie left living with Dial and moved to her parents home, or (b) some mistake in the newspapers end of unknown mechanism.

I doubt it means Dial was living there too in December. But if his wife was there it would not be surprising if he was there a lot even if not living there.

[Tony Krome]

3 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

Yes. It excludes the idea of a non-updated drivers’ license as an explanation for why Peggie’s address in that December news article is given as her parents’ address, and not Dial’s address.

In the absence of better information, it looks like either (a) some time between Nov 23 or Nov 28 and mid-December, Peggie left living with Dial and moved to her parents home, or (b) some mistake in the newspapers end of unknown mechanism.

I doubt it means Dial was living there too in December. But if his wife was there it would not be surprising if he was there a lot even if not living there.

Thanks, we are getting closer, hopefully we can nail this.

[Tom Gram]

9 minutes ago, Jean Ceulemans said:

I must have been looking in the wrong places, but I can find zero on 2503 ?

I don't have acces to phonebooks or other  listings, anyone ?

 

The Irving Library has all the directories and the archivist is very helpful apparently: 

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t2573-the-vacant-house

If 2503 was legitimately vacant too at the time of the assassination, there were vacant houses right next to the Paines and Randles that were never searched, investigated, etc. by anyone. 

2511 is bad enough, and it’s pretty damn bad. According to the official record - or at least what’s available online - no one ever even checked if the f*****g door was unlocked. 

We really need to find out who actually owned 2511 and 2503. Where would we find Irving property records from the ‘60s? 

[Tony Krome]

5 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

2511 is bad enough, and it’s pretty damn bad. According to the official record - or at least what’s available online - no one ever even checked if the f*****g door was unlocked. 

What if the FBI did in fact investigate 2511, and found that the Randle phone number had been in use there, before the Randles moved to 2439. Is this the same as not disclosing 2434 as being tied to Dial Ryder?

[Tony Krome]

14 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Owner Greener read the Schmidt story in the newspaper on Thanksgiving day, that was when he first learned of it, asked Ryder what was going on, Ryder lied, denied to Greener he was the reporter's source, because he was in trouble with his boss. That's how I reconstruct it.

Here's something more related to the "credible" Hunter Schmidt;

Greener stated that he was contacted by a reporter that he suspected was the same reporter that spoke to Ryder and published the Nov 28th story.

Hunter Schmidt confirms he phoned Greener on Nov 29th.

Now this is where it gets interesting, Greener said that the reporter told him that he spoke to Ryder BEFORE Ryder spoke with the FBI.

So I got to thinking. Horton (FBI) has his interview with Ryder showing as Nov 25th. Now, for some reason, Horton states he does not take the "Oswald" repair tag into evidence. He basically says to Ryder, you keep it. If Horton had of received the tag on that Monday, he would have had to officially date the receivership of that evidence.

What do you make of that?

 

[Greg Doudna]

28 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Here's something more related to the "credible" Hunter Schmidt;

Greener stated that he was contacted by a reporter that he suspected was the same reporter that spoke to Ryder and published the Nov 28th story.

Hunter Schmidt confirms he phoned Greener on Nov 29th.

Now this is where it gets interesting, Greener said that the reporter told him that he spoke to Ryder BEFORE Ryder spoke with the FBI.

So I got to thinking. Horton (FBI) has his interview with Ryder showing as Nov 25th. Now, for some reason, Horton states he does not take the "Oswald" repair tag into evidence. He basically says to Ryder, you keep it. If Horton had of received the tag on that Monday, he would have had to officially date the receivership of that evidence.

What do you make of that?

 

See pp. 3-6 of my Sport Shop paper for what I make of that: https://www.scrollery.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Irving-Sport-Shop-109-pdf.pdf.

What you cite has nothing to do with reporter Schmidt saying anything untrue to Greener, or anything amiss with FBI agent Horton's reporting either. It is Greener's own lack of knowledge that Greener is expressing--Greener's lack of knowledge that FBI Horton had talked to Ryder on Mon Nov 25, before the newspaper article of Nov 28 and the Schmidt to Greener phone call on the morning of Nov 29. Ryder apparently never told his boss, Greener, of that Mon Nov 25 FBI visit (unless he did and Greener forgot). 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Tony Krome]

13 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

See pp. 3-6 of my Sport Shop paper for what I make of that: https://www.scrollery.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Irving-Sport-Shop-109-pdf.pdf.

What you cite has nothing to do with reporter Schmidt saying anything untrue to Greener, or anything amiss with FBI agent Horton's reporting either. It is Greener's own lack of knowledge that Greener is expressing--Greener's lack of knowledge that FBI Horton had talked to Ryder on Mon Nov 25, before the newspaper article of Nov 28 and the Schmidt to Greener phone call on the morning of Nov 29. Ryder apparently never told his boss, Greener, of that Mon Nov 25 FBI visit (unless he did and Greener forgot). 

I can see your point, except I'd imagine Greener, after reading the Nov 28th newspaper report, that the first thing he would have done is contacted his employee, Ryder, for all the juice. That would have been the evening of Nov 28th, the same time when CBS was interviewing Ryder.

The Hunter Schmidt call was the next day, 29th Nov. It does stretch the imagination that Ryder did not disclose to Greener about an interview with the FBI at Greener's own shop on the Monday 25th Nov. A closed shop that Ryder had to open up on his day off. 

And you suggest that Greener forgot? cmon

[Greg Doudna]

4 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

I can see your point, except I'd imagine Greener, after reading the Nov 28th newspaper report, that the first thing he would have done is contacted his employee, Ryder, for all the juice. That would have been the evening of Nov 28th, the same time when CBS was interviewing Ryder.

Yes Greener did contact Ryder on Nov 28, to ask what was going on, and there is no mystery over Ryder’s basic response: he falsely told Greener, his boss, that he had never spoken to reporter Schmidt. We know this because that is what Greener told Schmidt the next morning that Ryder had told him. And from all testimony of Greener, Ryder did not tell him of the FBI visit Mon Nov 25. 
 

4 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

The Hunter Schmidt call was the next day, 29th Nov. It does stretch the imagination that Ryder did not disclose to Greener about an interview with the FBI at Greener's own shop on the Monday 25th Nov. A closed shop that Ryder had to open up on his day off. 

I agree that’s surprising but that’s what happened, according to Greener’s testimony. 

Back to basics: the Mon Nov 25 FBI visit to the Sport Shop (closed) and then to Dial Ryder at his front door where he lived is a fact. It was reported by agent Horton, and it makes sense given the anonymous but highly specific tip phoned in to the Dallas FBI office on Sun Nov 24; the Monday Nov 25 visit of Horton was FBI follow-up running down that tip. 

Therefore whether Greener knew or did not know of it is irrelevant to the prior foundation that it occurred. Then the only issue is whether Dial told Greener of it. Greener’s testimony says no. 

4 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

And you suggest that Greener forgot? cmon

No you misunderstand, I don’t think that. I think Dial never told him. 

[Tony Krome]

49 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

I agree that’s surprising but that’s what happened, according to Greener’s testimony. 

Not only surprising, but unbelievable. Let me run this past you;

F. M. Turner, on Sunday 24th Nov is handed information at the Police Station regarding a tip that Oswald had his rifle sighted over at Irving. He checks the phone book, finds Irving Sports, discovers Greener runs the show, and calls him, either the same day or the next. Greener answers, Turner explains the tip, and Greener says yeah, "they" have seen the photos of Oswald in the papers, and "neither" of them recall doing any work for the man in the shop. Greener said he would check the records.

We are talking Sunday 24th or Monday 25th for the Turner call. Of course Turner would be prompt about such a tip, it was fairly big case this JFK hit.

So what does Greener do on Monday the 25th Nov? He leaves town of course and ends up over in East Texas.

What you think so far?

[Greg Doudna]

1 hour ago, Tony Krome said:

Not only surprising, but unbelievable. Let me run this past you;

F. M. Turner, on Sunday 24th Nov is handed information at the Police Station regarding a tip that Oswald had his rifle sighted over at Irving. He checks the phone book, finds Irving Sports, discovers Greener runs the show, and calls him, either the same day or the next. Greener answers, Turner explains the tip, and Greener says yeah, "they" have seen the photos of Oswald in the papers, and "neither" of them recall doing any work for the man in the shop. Greener said he would check the records.

We are talking Sunday 24th or Monday 25th for the Turner call. Of course Turner would be prompt about such a tip, it was fairly big case this JFK hit.

So what does Greener do on Monday the 25th Nov? He leaves town of course and ends up over in East Texas.

What you think so far?

Tony I do not immediately recall a doc or reference to Greener being informed by DPD that early, on Nov 24 or 25, of a report of the rifle having been sighted in his shop. What is your reference or link on that? 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Greg Doudna