Walker, West 5th and the missing License Plate Photo

[Tony Krome]

5 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Oswald said he

Please clarify, you are implying that your "speaker" has knowledge of what Oswald said.

[Greg Doudna]

21 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Please clarify, you are implying that your "speaker" has knowledge of what Oswald said.

In the hypothetical I was outlining, yes. Oswald told somebody he had the rifle sighted-in, and by that means word got to whoever made the anonymous phone calls, perhaps someone to whom Oswald conveyed the rifle (a conveyance perhaps being the reason he got the scope base mount fixed and the scope put back on).

The more I think about this, that Nov 21 date of the anonymous caller phoning in the tips is too specific to be random hearsay transmission error from accurate Nov 11. The nature of that mistake indicates knowledge that Oswald was in Irving on Nov 21 (combined with information that Oswald had had the rifle sighted-in at the Irving Sport Shop).  

Since it was not Oswald himself making the anonymous phone calls (and it just doesn't quite ring right that Peggie Ryder or her father would not only call the FBI but also a news media radio station, and do so anonymously), it would be someone who learned from Oswald about the Irving Sport Shop sighting-in.

Since the scope was crap, and Oswald had previously taken it off the rifle, and because there is no ammo or any other sound evidence that Oswald practiced shooting after the Nov 11 Sport Shop visit, one possibility is Oswald had that costly (to him) repair done in order to prep the rifle for a sale (or a trade or whatever). Then as part of that sale or conveyance Oswald tells the buyer that the rifle is freshly sighted-in, at the Irving Sport Shop. That then would become the original source of information which via an unknown number of hearsay transmissions ends up as the anonymous phone calls of Nov 24 intending to expedite having Oswald incriminated. Something like that.

As noted, this is speculation, but speculation in an attempt to explain the specificity of the mistake in the date in the accurate tip that Oswald had had the rifle sighted-in at the Irving Sport Shop.  

[Tony Krome]

34 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

The more I think about this, that Nov 21 date of the anonymous caller phoning in the tips is too specific to be random

Yes, the specific date called in, coincides with the proximity of Oswald to Irving Sports.

According to RAY JOHN over at WFAA, he received the call between 3pm & 3.30pm Sunday 24th Nov. 15 minutes later he phones the Office of Fritz.

This call precedes the FBI call.

From RAY JOHN, we get a specific description of the MALE's VOICE.

Now, for some reason, and IF the same male caller was the FBI caller, the FBI recipient of that call, does not disclose the characteristics of that voice. In fact, he describes the male as sounding "normal".

I'm confident both male callers, that suppled matching information, are the same person.

I'm also confident the FBI caught up with this same man and questioned him on a matter unrelated to the anonymous calls. (I have old research, that I'm still working on, so I'm leaving it there for now. It's only recently, since we have been discussing this issue, that I've realised it most likely is the same guy)

The key is the voice.

[Greg Doudna]

17 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Yes, the specific date called in, coincides with the proximity of Oswald to Irving Sports.

According to RAY JOHN over at WFAA, he received the call between 3pm & 3.30pm Sunday 24th Nov. 15 minutes later he phones the Office of Fritz.

This call precedes the FBI call.

From RAY JOHN, we get a specific description of the MALE's VOICE.

Now, for some reason, and IF the same male caller was the FBI caller, the FBI recipient of that call, does not disclose the characteristics of that voice. In fact, he describes the male as sounding "normal".

I'm confident both male callers, that suppled matching information, are the same person.

I'm also confident the FBI caught up with this same man and questioned him on a matter unrelated to the anonymous calls. (I have old research, that I'm still working on, so I'm leaving it there for now. It's only recently, since we have been discussing this issue, that I've realised it most likely is the same guy)

The key is the voice.

Makes total sense to me that the two calls re the Sport Shop Oswald rifle sighting-in were the same caller, I just assume that. Now you have got me intrigued. Who do you think it was?

[Tony Krome]

2 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Makes total sense to me that the two calls re the Sport Shop Oswald rifle sighting-in were the same caller, I just assume that. Now you have got me intrigued. Who do you think it was?

I'll create a topic about that guy, but first, how about we iron out a few wrinkles on this one..

Horton meets Ryder on Monday armed with the anonymous tip info. Yet he does not pursue the tip info. This is confirmed by Ryder;

Mr. LIEBELER. It was your impression at the time the FBI came that they were making a routine check of all guns?
Mr. RYDER. That is my opinion. That is the idea I had.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't know of any special reason why they came to this particular gun shop?
Mr. RYDER. No; he didn't give any specific reason. He was just checking us out. Like I say, probably just routine like he checked all others.

Fair enough, Horton could have held the tip info close to his chest in order to flesh out whether he could have caught out Ryder as the source of the tip. But surprisingly, Horton does not mention the reason for the Irving Sport visit in his reports as being in reference to the tips. This appears to be the reason Liebeler quizzed Ryder. Liebeler appears he did not know at that point either.

 

[Tony Krome]

7 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

But surprisingly, Horton does not mention the reason for the Irving Sport visit in his reports as being in reference to the tips. This appears to be the reason Liebeler quizzed Ryder. Liebeler appears he did not know at that point either.

Found what I need. Liebeler did not know as of April 28th 1964. Liebeler was not forwarded the KUYKENDALL document by the FBI. Liebeler had to request the information from Hoover after interviewing Ryder. 

[Tom Gram]

9 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Found what I need. Liebeler did not know as of April 28th 1964. Liebeler was not forwarded the KUYKENDALL document by the FBI. Liebeler had to request the information from Hoover after interviewing Ryder. 

That excerpt is from the 4/28/64 letter Rankin to Hoover requesting additional investigation on the Ryder deal. 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=61496#relPageId=66

The FBI’s response is CE1334: 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=561

Here’s the internal airtel from HQ to Dallas from 4/29 telling them to comply with the letter:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=58976#relPageId=94

Liebeler himself actually requested information from the FBI on this a month or so earlier, and the FBI replied on 4/8/64 with a memo dated April 2nd, CE1333:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62326#relPageId=96

Scroll down for the 4/8 submission letter to the WC. 

I haven’t found Liebeler’s request letter yet but it shouldn’t be too hard to find. It must’ve been soon after Ryder’s testimony. The submission letter says Liebeler’s request was made to ASAC Clark of Dallas though, so it might not be online, or it might have just been verbal. There’s also a reference to a 4/2/64 memo from Rosen to Belmont that could be worth checking out. 

I did find this, which is kind of interesting:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=58957#relPageId=29

It’s a 4/2/64 airtel from Dallas to Inspector Malley sending 10 copies of the LHM (CE1333) to HQ. 

There’s a reference to an 11:15 a.m. phone call from Malley, so it looks like Liebeler contacted Clark in Dallas, then Clark contacted HQ to make Liebeler’s request into an official FBI task for the WC, and Malley subsequently called Dallas to get them to write up a LHM for Liebeler. 

The LHM was apparently prepared the same day by Dallas and sent to HQ via the above airtel, presumably for review and dissemination, but it wasn’t sent to the WC until the 8th. 

What’s interesting IMO is Liebeler’s request did not go through normal channels. The 4/8/63 submission letter says that Liebeler contacted Clark directly because he wanted to personally interview the Dallas agents who spoke with Ryder. Clark told him the “Agents had no personal opinion regarding this matter, and all information was reduced to writing”, so Liebeler requested a chronology of the interviews.

Basically the FBI wouldn’t let Liebeler, the skilled attorney, talk to Horton, etc. Hmm. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Tom Gram