WHY PAT SPEER OWES THE FAMILY OF DR. ROBERT McCLELLAND AN APOLOGY

[Pat Speer]

21 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Statistically speaking, Denny, you have a very good reason not to believe what Pat et al claim.

Suppose for a moment that the odds of a doctor or nurse getting the location of the gaping wound wrong is 50%, or 1/2. That's a coin toss.

The odds of 20 doctors getting is wrong would be calculated as follows:

     (1/2) ^20     (^ means "to the power of")

That is equal to  1 / 1,048,576, or roughly one in a million.

So, the odds of all twenty Parkland professionals being wrong is less than one in a million... literally!

Now, certainly a doctor correctly locating a wound would have better odds than a random coin toss. Let's conservatively suppose that his odds were twice better than a random coin toss.

In that case, the odds of a doctor getting it right would be 75% or 3/4, and getting it wrong would be 25% or 1/4.

Let's calculate the odds of all twenty Parkland professional getting it wrong.

     (1/4) ^20

This is equal to  1 / 1,099,512,000,000, or roughly one in a TRILLION.

So, the odds of all twenty Parkland professionals being wrong is less than one in a TRILLION!

And remember, this is based on the conservative assumption that the Parkland Professionals were only twice more likely to be right than a random coin toss!

People like Pat Speer believe that something so unlikely actually happened! They would rather accept that than to accept the alternative that some photos were faked.

Incredible.

 

Oh my God!!! That's not how it works!!! These were not people studiously viewing something, and being asked what they saw right afterwards. They were colleagues, who viewed JFK with his feet up in the air, and talked about what they saw afterwards. They then wrote reports, and read each others' reports in a prominent medical magazine. The odds of them being mistaken about one thing or another under these circumstances is actually quite high. And besides, they didn't all say the same thing, now, did they? McClelland said the wound was of the left temple. Giesecke said it was along the left side of the head. And Salyer placed it by the ear. 

[Sandy Larsen]

3 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Oh my God!!! That's not how it works!!! These were not people studiously viewing something, and being asked what they saw right afterwards. They were colleagues, who viewed JFK with his feet up in the air, and talked about what they saw afterwards. They then wrote reports, and read each others' reports in a prominent medical magazine. The odds of them being mistaken about one thing or another under these circumstances is actually quite high. And besides, they didn't all say the same thing, now, did they? McClelland said the wound was of the left temple. Giesecke said it was along the left side of the head. And Salyer placed it by the ear. 

 

I don't think so Pat.

You are just stunned by the fact that the odds of 20 doctors being wrong is so exceedingly tiny.

You are in denial again.

Go find a book that explains how probably calculations can be wrong.

 

[Keven Hofeling]

6 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

FWIW, Keven, I would be glad to accept that the black patch was painted in. But the Dealey Plaza witnesses--including and especially Hargis--are clear that the explosion of blood and brain occurred on the right side of the head, where it is shown in the films.

 

 

 

 

Quote

FWIW, Keven, I would be glad to accept that the black patch was painted in. But the Dealey Plaza witnesses--including and especially Hargis--are clear that the explosion of blood and brain occurred on the right side of the head, where it is shown in the films.

That's not true that the Dealey Plaza witnesses claim "the explosion of blood and brains occurred on the right side of the head," and Bobby Hargis's testimony is not what you claim it is. I've set forth a long list of Dealey Plaza witnesses that describe a rearward and to the left biological debris field but you choose to ignore it, so let's focus on the two witnesses who were closest to the President at the time of the head shot besides the other occupants of the limousine which are motorcycle patrolman Bobby Hargis and Secret Service Agent Samual Kinney.

The following is Bobby Hargis's description of the head explosion which comes from your own research, and contrary to your claim that he described an explosion at the side of JFK's head, he describes it as exploding like a tomato and showering everything in the car behind it, which corroborates Sam Kinney's testimony that he witnessed biological debris exploding out of the back of JFK's head:

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"...The second shot made his head like a ripe tomato when you shoot it with a gun on the ground. It explodes. That's how his head did. It exploded. Now you got brain matter, blood, and everything else on you" (6-26-95 video-taped interview with Mark Oakes and Ian Griggs) (On the explosion of Kennedy's head) "It didn't only hit me...It showered everything in the car behind it...You put a ripe tomato, and you shoot it with a gun and it splatters...."

_____________________ 

And here is Sam Kinney's testimony which corroborates what Bobby Hargis described about a rearward flying debris field:

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"...I HAD BRAIN MATTER ALL OVER MY WINDSHIELD AND LEFT ARM, THAT'S HOW CLOSE WE WERE TO IT ... IT WAS THE RIGHT REAR PART OF HIS HEAD ... BECAUSE THAT'S THE PART I SAW BLOW OUT. I SAW HAIR COME OUT, THE PIECES BLOW OUT, THEN THE SKIN WENT BACK IN -- AN EXPLOSION IN AND OUT..."

SECRET SERVICE AGENT SAM KINNEY, who was driving the follow up car: “I saw one shot strike the President in the right side of the head. The President then fell to the seat to the left toward Mrs. Kennedy.” [11/30/1963 Statement: CE1024: 18H731] 

"...I had brain matter all over my windshield and left arm, that's how close we were to it ... It was the right rear part of his head ... Because that's the part I saw blow out. I saw hair come out, the pieces blow out, then the skin went back in -- an explosion in and out..." [3/5/1994 interview by Vince Palamara]

Secret Service Agent Samuel Kinney (3/5/1994 interview by Vince Palamara).

_____________________ 

The testimony of Hargis and Kinney shows that you are misrepresenting the origin of the head explosion and debris field. Both describe its trajectory as being to the rear and impacting both at high velocity.

_____________________ 

Quote

It also makes little sense that they would paint over a hole on the back of the head but leave the gigantic exit defect alone. As stated ad nauseum, I combed through the history of wound ballistics and proved that M/C bullets don't go in small and explode skull into the sky, and that the only plausible explanation for a wound that massive was that is was not an exit related to the EOP entrance, but a tangential wound of both entrance and exit.

"Leave the gigantic exit defect alone?" They added the huge, cavernous forehead wound to the Zapruder film to support the Oswald shooting from the TSBD mythology. That huge forehead wound depicted by the Zapruder film -- and the "flap" you Zapruder film authenticity apologists have postulated to rationalize away the contradiction -- was not reported by one witness at Dealey Plaza, Parkland Hospital, or the Bethesda Autopsy on 11/22/1963. Z-335 and Z-337 depict JFK's forehead and face as being completely blown away, such that we are seeing Jackie's pink shoulder pad where JFK's face and forehead should be. We know from the "stare of death" autopsy photograph and others that JFK's forehead and face were perfectly intact at the time of the Bethesda autopsy, and this combined with the fact that there is no testimonial evidence to support the notion of the existence of a huge cavernous forehead wound means that the Zapruder film imagery which depicts same must therefore necessarily be fraudulent.

ZAPRUDER FRAME 337

_____________________ 

Warren Commission Exhibits 861 and 862 show the head damage that the Zapruder film attempts to mimic with the addition of the large, cavernous head wound imagery:

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Researchers often do not appreciate the size and location of the large cantaloupe sized forehead wound in the Zapruder film. It depicts the forehead and face as being completely blown away, leaving only a stump of a head, which is not what was seen in Dealey Plaza, at Parkland Hospital, or at the Bethesda autopsy, and the autopsy photographs show that the forehead and face were perfectly intact. The following is a GIF made up of selected frames from the headshot sequence of the extant Zapruder film, with emphasis added to highlight the severity of the head wound damage that it depicts:

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The Zapruder film head wound imagery and this "stare of death" autopsy photograph cannot both be authentic as they depict entirely different head wounds. JFK's face and forehead are perfectly intact in this photograph but are depicted as being completely blown away in the Zapruder footage above. Both cannot be true.

_____________________ 

Harrison Livingstone once said that this headwound imagery is as phony as a three-dollar bill, and he was absolutely right. You have been duped Mr. Speer, and once the extant Zapruder film is exposed as a total fraud, which is inevitable, the project you have built using it as your foundation will collapse like a house of cards.

_____________________ 

'JFK - THE FAKE ZAPRUDER FILM VIDEO'

International School History Teacher |  Mar 1, 2022 | https://youtu.be/JVXTvtBfLfE?si=kUUZ6bUyXlzM8yXr
 

"Little known fact in the JFK cover-up - the Zapruder Hoax and how it aided the longstanding cover-up to this day. There is no question that the Zapruder film was a contrived document designed by the CIA/NSA to aid the cover-up."

 

Edited January 11 by Keven Hofeling

[Keven Hofeling]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

Of course I'm going to call it that....because that's exactly what it was --- a Mistaken Observation made by several different individuals.

 

Now that is the understatement of the century! "Several different individuals." Try fifty (which includes those that are not on the chart below).

------------------------------------------------
This is a link to Dr. Gary Aguilar's compilation of the earliest testimony of the Parkland AND Bethesda witnesses -- http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm -- and the following chart is in part based upon the the witness accounts outlined in the article by Dr. Gary Aguilar:
--------------------------------------------------
DR. GARY AGUILAR'S APPENDIX - TABLES AND FIGURES:

https://history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/How5InvestigationsGotItWrong_tabfig.htm

 

 

[Keven Hofeling]

43 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Oh my God!!! That's not how it works!!! These were not people studiously viewing something, and being asked what they saw right afterwards. They were colleagues, who viewed JFK with his feet up in the air, and talked about what they saw afterwards. They then wrote reports, and read each others' reports in a prominent medical magazine. The odds of them being mistaken about one thing or another under these circumstances is actually quite high. And besides, they didn't all say the same thing, now, did they? McClelland said the wound was of the left temple. Giesecke said it was along the left side of the head. And Salyer placed it by the ear. 

The same day Parkland Hospital Admission Notes standing alone debunk your claims...

____________

COMMISSION EXHIBIT NO. 392: APPENDIX VIII - MEDICAL REPORTS FROM DOCTORS AT PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL, DALLAS, TEXAS: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/jfkinfo/app8.htm

Summary (By Dr. Kemp Clark)

The President arrived at the Emergency Room at 12:43 P. M., the 22nd of November, 1963. He was in the back seat of his limousine. Governor Connally of Texas was also in this car. The first physician to see the President was Dr. James Carrico, a Resident in General Surgery.

Dr. Carrico noted the President to have slow, agenal respiratory efforts. He could hear a heartbeat but found no pulse or blood pressure to be present. Two external wounds, one in the lower third of the anterior neck, the other in the occipital region of the skull, were noted. Through the head wound, blood and brain were extruding. Dr. Carrico inserted a cuffed endotracheal tube. While doing so, he noted a ragged wound of the trachea immediately below the larynx.

At this time, Dr. Malcolm Perry, Attending Surgeon, Dr. Charles Baxter, Attending Surgeon, and Dr. Ronald Jones, another Resident in General Surgery, arrived. Immediately thereafter, Dr. M. T. Jenkins, Director of the Department of Anesthesia, and Doctors Giesecke and Hunt, two other Staff Anesthesiologists, arrived. The endotracheal tube had been connected to a Bennett respirator to assist the President's breathing. An Anesthesia machine was substituted for this by Dr. Jenkins. Only 100% oxygen was administered.

A cutdown was performed in the right ankle, and a polyethylene catheter inserted in the vein. An infusion of lactated Ringer's solution was begun. Blood was drawn for type and crossmatch, but unmatched type "O" RH negative blood was immediately obtained and begun. Hydrocortisone 300 mgms was added to the intravenous fluids.

Dr. Robert McClelland, Attending Surgeon, arrived to help in the President's care. Doctors Perry, Baxter, and McClelland began a tracheostomy, as considerable quantities of blood were present from the President's oral pharynx. At this time, Dr. Paul Peters, Attending Urological Surgeon, and Dr. Kemp Clark, Director of Neurological Surgery arrived. Because of the lacerated trachea, anterior chest tubes were place in both pleural spaces. These were connected to sealed underwater drainage.

Neurological examination revealed the President's pupils to be widely dialted and fixed to light. His eyes were divergent, being deviated outward; a skew deviation from the horizontal was present. Not deep tendon reflexes or spontaneous movements were found.

There was a large wound in the right occipito-parietal region, from which profuse bleeding was occurring. 1500 cc. of blood were estimated on the drapes and floor of the Emergency Operating Room. There was considerable loss of scalp and bone tissue. Both cerebral and cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound.

Further examination was not possible as cardiac arrest occurred at this point. Closed chest cardiac massage was begun by Dr. Clark. A pulse palpable in both the carotid and femoral arteries was obtained. Dr. Perry relieved on the cardiac massage while a cardiotachioscope was connected. Dr. Fouad Bashour, Attending Physician, arrived as this was being connected. There was electrical silence of the President's heart.

President Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1300 hours by Dr. Clark

Kemp Clark, M. D.
Director
Service of Neurological Surgery
KC:aa

cc to Dean's Office, Southwestern Medical School
cc to Medical Records, Parkland Memorial Hospital

______________________________________________________________________________________

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

J. F. KENNEDY

DATE AND HOUR 11/22/63 1620 DOCTOR: Carrico

When patient entered Emergency room on ambulance carriage had slow agonal respiratory efforts and scant cardiac beats by auscultation. Two external wounds were noted. One small penetrating wound of ant. neck in lower 1/3. The other wound had avulsed the calvarium and shredded brain tissue present with profuse oozing. No pulse or blood pressure were present. Pupils were dilated and fixed. A cuffed endotracheal tube was inserted and through the laryngoscope a ragged wound of the trachea was seen immediately below the larynx. The tube was passed past the laceration and the cuff inflated. Respiration using the resp assistor on auto-matic were instituted. Concurrently an IV infusion of lactated Ringer solution was begun via catheter placed in right leg and blood was drawn for type and crossmatch. Type O Rh negative blood was obtained as well as hydrocortisone.

In view of tracheal injury and decreased BS an tracheostomy was performed by Dr. Perry and Bilat. chest tubes inserted. A 2^nd bld infusion was begun in left arm. In addition Dr. Jenkins began resp with anethesia machine, cardiac monitor, and stimulator attached. Solu cortef IV given (300mg), attempt to control slow oozing from cerebral and cerebellar tissue via packs instituted. Despite these measures as well as external cardiac massage, BP never returned and EKG evidence of cardiac activity was never obtained.

Charles J. Carrico M.D.

 

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PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

J. F. KENNEDY

DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963 DOCTOR: PERRY

Staff Note

At the time of initial examination, the pt. was noted as non-responsive. The eyes were deviated and the pupils were dilated. A considerable quantity of blood was noted on the patient, the carriage and the floor. A small wound was noted in the midline of the neck, in the lower third anteriorly. It was exuding blood slowly. A large wound of the right posterior cranium was noted, exposing severely lacerated brain. Brain tissue was noted in the blood at the head of the carriage.

Pulse or heartbeat were not detectable but slow spasmodic respiration was noted. An endotracheal tube was in place and respiration was being assisted. An intravenous infusion was being placed in the leg.

At this point I noted that respiration was ineffective and while additional venisections were done to administer fluids and blood, a tracheostomy was effected. A right lateral injury to the trachea was noted. The tracheostomy tube was put in place and the cuff inflated and respiration assisted. Closed chest cardiac massage was instituted after placement of sealed drainage chest tubes, but without benefit. Electrocardiographic evaluation revealed that no detectable electrical activity existed in the heart. Resuscitation attempts were abandoned after the team of physicians determined that the patient had expired.

Malcolm O. Perry, M.D.
1630 hr 22 Nov 1963

 

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PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

DATE AND HOUR NOV 22, 1963 DOCTOR: BAXTER

Note of Attendance to President Kennedy.

I was contacted at approx 12:40 that the President was on the way to the emergency room having been shot. On arrival there, I found an endotracheal tube in place with assisted respirations, a left chest tube being inserted and cut downs going in one leg and in the left arm. The President had a wound in the mid-line of the neck. On first observation of the remaining wounds the rt temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was lying on the table, with .extensive lacerations and contusions. The pupils were fixed and deviated lateral and dilated. No pulse was detectable and respirations were (as noted) being supplied. A tracheotomy was performed by Dr. Perry and I and a chest tube inserted into the right chest (2^nd intercostal space anteriorally). Meanwhile, 2 pts of O neg blood were administered by pump without response. When all of these measures were complete, no heart beat could be detected. Close chest message was performed until a cardioscope could be attached which revealed no cardiac activity was obtained. Due to the excessive and irreparable brain damage which was lethal, no further attempt to resuscitate the heart was made.

Charles R. Baxter M.D.
Associate Prof of Surgery
Southwestern Medical School

 

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PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

JOHN F. KENNEDY

DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963 DOCTOR: [KEMP CLARK]

12:20pm to 13:00 hrs

Called by EOR while standing in (illegible) Laboratory at SWMS. Told that the President had been shot. I arrived at the EOR at 1220 - 1225 and .The President was bleeding profusely from the back of the head. There was a large (3 x 3cm) amount of cerebral tissue present on the cart. There was a smaller amount of cerebellar tissue present also.

A tracheostomy was being performed by Drs. Perry, Baxter and McClelland. Exam of the President showed that an endotracheal tube was in place and respiratory assistance was being given by Dr. Akins and Jenkins. The pupils were dilated, fixed to light and his eyes were deviated outward and the right one downward as as well .

The trach was completed and I adjusted the endotracheal tube a little bit. Blood was present in the oral pharynx. Suction was used to remove this. Levine Catheter was passed into the stomach at this time.

He was (illegible) that I (illegible) no carotid pulse. I immediately began closed chest massage. A pulse was obtained at the carotid and femoral pulse levels.

Dr. Perry then took over the cardiac massage so I could evaluate the head wound.

There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into the parietal region. Much of the skull appeared gone at brief examination . The previously described lacerated brain was present.

By this time an EKG was hooked up. There was no electrical activity of the heart and no respiratory effort - He was pronounced dead at 1300 hrs by me.

W. Kemp Clark
22 Nov 1963
1615 hrs -

 

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PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: Robert N. McClelland

Statement Regarding Assassination of President Kennedy

At approximately 12:45 PM on the above date I was called from the second floor of Parkland Hospital and went immediately to the Emergency Operating Room. When I arrived President Kennedy was being attended by Drs Malcolm Perry, Charles Baxter, James Carrico, and Ronald Jones. The President was at the time comatose from a massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube and assisted respiration was started immediately by Dr. Carrico on Duty in the EOR when the President arrived. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and I then performed a tracheotomy for respiratory distress and tracheal injury and Dr. Jones and Paul Peters inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoracis secondary to the tracheomediastinal injury. Simultaneously Dr. Jones had started 3 cut-downs giving blood and fluids immediately, In spite of this, at 12:55 he was pronounced dead by Dr. Kemp Clark the neurosurgeon and professor of neurosurgery who arrived immediately after I did. The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple. He was pronounced dead after external cardiac message failed and ECG activity was gone.

Robert N. McClelland M.D.
Asst. Prof. of Surgery
Southwestern Med.
School of Univ of Tex.
Dallas, Texas

 

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PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: BASHOUR

Statement Regarding Assassination of the President of the U.S.A., President Kennedy.

At 12:50 PM, we were called from the 1st floor of Parkland Hospital and told that President Kennedy was shot. Dr. D ?? and myself went to the emergency room of Parkland. Upon examination, the President had no pulsation, no heartbeat, no blood pressure. The oscilloscope showed a complete standstill. The president was declared dead at 12:55 P.M.

F. Bashour M.D.
Associate Professor of Cardiology
Southwestern Medical School
Dallas, Texas.

 

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THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS
SOUTHWESTERN MEDICAL SCHOOL
DALLAS

November 22, 1963
1630

To: Mr. C.J. Price, Administrator Parkland Memorial Hospital

From: M.T. Jenkins, M.D., Professor and Chairman Department of Anesthesiology

Subject: Statement concerning resusciative efforts for President John F. Kennedy

Upon receiving a stat alarm that this distinguished patient was being brought to the emergency room at Parkland Memorial Hospital, I dispatched Doctors A . H. Giesecke and Jackie H. Hunt with an anesthesia machine and resuscitative equipment to the major surgical emergency room area, and I ran down the stairs . On my arrival in the emergency operating room at approximately 1230 I found that Doctors Carrico and/or Delaney had begun resuscitative efforts by introducing an orotracheal tube, connecting it for controlled ventilation to a Bennett intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus . Doctors Charles Baxter, Malcolm Perry, and Robert McClelland arrived at the same time and began a tracheostomy and started the insertion of a right chest tube, since there was also obvious tracheal and chest damage . Doctors Paul Peters and Kemp Clark arrived simultaneously and immediately thereafter assisted respectively with the insertion of the right chest tube and with manual closed chest cardiac compression to assure circulation.

For better control of artificial ventilation, I exchanged the intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus for an anesthesia machine and continued artificial ventilation . Doctors Gene Akin and A . H. Giesecke assisted with the respiratory problems incident to changing from the orotracheal tube to a tracheostomy tube, and Doctors Hunt and Giesecke connected a cardioscope to determine cardiac activity.

During the progress of these activities, the emergency room cart was elevated at the feet in order to provide a Trendelenburg position, a venous cutdown was performed on the right saphenous vein, and additional fluids were begun in a vein in the left forearm while blood was ordered from the blood bank . All of these activities were completed by approximately 1245, at which time external cardiac massage was still being carried out effectively by Doctor Clark as judged by a palpable peripheral pulse. Despite these measures there was no electrocardiographic evidence of cardiac activity .

These described resuscitative activities were indicated as of first importance, and after they were carried out attention was turned to all other evidences of injury . There was a great laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital), causing a great defect in the skull plate so that there was herniation and laceration of great areas of the brain, even to the extent that the cerebellum had protruded from the wound. There were also fragmented sections of brain on the drapes of the emergency room cart . With the institution of adequate cardiac compression, there was a great flow of blood from the cranial cavity, indicating that there was much vascular damage as well as brain tissue damage .

It is my personal feeling that all methods of resuscitation were instituted expeditiously and efficiently . However, this cranial and intracranial damage was of such magnitude as to cause the irreversible damage . President Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1300 .

Sincerely,
/s/ M. T. Jenkins
M. T. Jenkins, M.D .

____________

 

[Sandy Larsen]

9 minutes ago, Keven Hofeling said:

The same day Parkland Hospital Admission Notes standing alone debunk your claims...

 

Nice list, Keven.

I like to stick to Parkland witnesses because there is the added clandestine surgery to the head at Bethesda, as well as the entrance and exit of technicians, that complicate matters.

 

[Pat Speer]

On 1/10/2024 at 7:08 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I don't think so Pat.

You are just stunned by the fact that the odds of 20 doctors being wrong is so exceedingly tiny.

You are in denial again.

Go find a book that explains how probably calculations can be wrong.

 

You're incorrect. I was in an accelerated math program in high school. There were about 20 of us, in a graduating class of over 1,000. While I goofed off a bit and was content to get a B, there was one chapter which came easy to me, and I shocked the nerds with the pocket protectors and slide rules by getting the best score on the test, by far. That chapter was on probabilities. And the key to probabilities is figuring out if the events are related or not. IF you had 20 different doctors all operating independently of one another, and they all said the same thing, then the chances of them all being incorrect in the same way would be unlikely. But we don't have that in this case. We have a cherry-picked pool of witnesses who interacted with one another and undoubtedly influenced each other, for better or worse. I say cherry-picked because back of the head devotees routinely reject a number of witnesses, or desperately spin these witnesses  into saying something they never said, or did not mean to imply, as made clear by all their statements. 

In this case, you have taken 20 statements of people you wish to believe, and thrown out the statements of the Newmans, Zapruder, Burkley, and so forth. And that's not logical. Not logical at all. And no, the claim these people were describing an entrance wound--that was not found by those looking for it--is just desperate flailing. No one saw such a wound. 

Here's Bill Newman on TV within 15 minutes of the shooting "a gun shot apparently from behind us hit the President in the side, the side of the temple." 

And here's his wife about 30 minutes later: ""And then another one—it was just awful fast.  And President Kennedy reached up and grabbed--it looked like he grabbed--his ear and blood just started gushing out."

And here is Malcolm Kilduff, about 15 minutes later, as he announced JFK's death: “President John F. Kennedy died...of a gunshot wound in the brain…The President was shot once, in the head...Dr. Burkley [Dr. George Burkley, Kennedy's personal physician] told me it is a simple matter…of a bullet right through the head. (And as he said this, he pointed to his right temple).

And here's Abraham Zapruder on WFAA, about 40 minutes later: “Then I heard another shot or two, I couldn't say it was one or two, and I saw his head practically open up, all blood and everything. (Now at this time, Zapruder similarly grabbed his right temple),

So that's four witnesses with time-stamped appearances before the public placing the large head wound--the only head wound seen in Dallas--by the temple.

Now, some quick math, Sandy... What are the odds of that? What are the odds that the first four witnesses to speak on JFK's head wound to the press or the public, would all say the wound was by the temple? When, according to the witnesses you find so riveting, there was no such wound there? I mean, what's going on? A mass hallucination? 

Now let's continue. Hmmm... Who else saw the murder of the President? And reported on it within the time frame you've deemed acceptable for the Parkland witnesses?

Here's James Chaney, a motorcycle officer riding to the right and behind the President, on the night of the shooting: "I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet."

And here's Douglas Jackson, riding to the right of Chaney, in notes written on the night of the shooting: "I looked back toward Mr. Kennedy and saw him hit in the head; he appeared to have been hit just above the right ear. The top of his head flew off away from me."

Okay, interesting. Still no explosion from the back of the head...

Now here's Emory Roberts, riding directly behind Kennedy in the follow-up car. On 11-29, he wrote: "I saw what appeared to be a small explosion on the right side of the President’s head, saw blood, at which time the President fell further to his left."

And here's Kenny O'Donnell, in a book published in 1972: "While we both stared at the President, the third shot took the side of his head off." Side, not back. 

And here's Glen Bennett, sitting behind O'Donnell, in his 11-22 notes: "A second shoot followed immediately and hit the right rear high of the boss's head." Note that he describes an entrance on rear high, and not an exit on low, middle. 

Well, then what about those on the ground, on the right side of JFK?

Emmett Hudson was standing on the steps to the right and front of President Kennedy. In his testimony before the Warren Commission, he claimed: "it looked like it hit him somewhere along a little bit behind the ear and a little bit above the ear." 

Here's Marilyn Sitzman, Abraham Zapruder’s secretary, when asked about the head wound in 1966: “And the next thing that I remembered...was the shot that hit him directly in front of us, or almost directly in front of us, that hit him on the side of his face ...”

Now, all these people, most of whom had no known connection to each other, thought they saw a wound on right side of Kennedy's head by his temple or even on his face. Well, what are the odds of that...seeing as the supposedly credible Parkland witnesses insisted there was no wound in that location? 

But wait...There were also witnesses to the left of the limo. If a bullet passed through JFK from the grassy knoll, and exploded out the back of his skull, these people would have had a front row seat for this explosion. So what did they see? 

Here's Bobby Hargis, riding off Mrs. Kennedy's left shoulder, In an 11-24-63 eyewitness account published in the New York Sunday News: "As the President straightened back up, Mrs. Kennedy turned toward him, and that was when he got hit in the side of the head, spinning it around. I was splattered by blood." When asked in 1968 if he thought this blood came from the back of the head, moreover, he claimed: "If he'd got hit in the rear, I'd have been able to see it. All I saw was just a splash come out on the other side."

And what about Sam Kinney, driving the Secret Service back-up car? His 11-22 report claimed: "At this time, the second shot was fired and I observed hair flying from the right side of his head…"

And what about Dave Powers, JFK's buddy, sitting in the jump seat behind Kinney? The affidavit he supplied the Warren Commission asserted:  "there was a third shot which took off the top of the President’s head."

And George Hickey, who was sitting behind Powers? His 11-22 report declares: "it seemed as if the right side of his head was hit and his hair flew forward.” 

Okay. What about those on the ground? Here's Jean Hill, on 11-22... She said she saw "the hair on the back of President Kennedy’s head fly up." Now, think of that. She was one of the closest witnesses, staring at the back of JFK's head from the left side. So... Did she see an explosion from the back of his head? No. Just the hair flying up. 

Well, then what about her friend, Mary Moorman, viewing the shooting from the same angle, and snapping a polaroid of the back of JFK's head 1/9 of a second after the fatal impact, which showed  no hole on the back of the head? Well, she also said she saw his hair fly up, and made no reference to an explosion from the back of the head.

And what about Charles Brehm, who was also standing to the rear and left of JFK at the time of the head shot, and would also have been in perfect position to note an explosion of blood and brain from the back of JFK'S head. Well, he was quoted in the paper that day...saying...you guessed it, that he saw the "the President’s hair fly up."

So...those to JFK's right thought the only wound they saw was on his face or by his temple, and those to his left saw blood come out on the other side of his head, and his hair fly up. 

What are the odds of this happening, if, as you say, the back of the head was blown out and there was no noticeable wound on the face or temple? 

 

Edited January 13 by Pat Speer

[Micah Mileto]

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

 

It would seem that McClelland or another doctor said out loud during the ordeal "a piece of cerebellum just fell onto the cart".

[Chris Bristow]

13 hours ago, Keven Hofeling said:

Michael, I think you have misinterpreted @Chris Bristow's comment. The following is his comment to which you were responding:

By "skeptics," Chris meant JFK researchers who accept the evidence of JFK's back-of-the-head wound, not the WC skeptics.

The following is a comment that Chris Bristow made on the subject on Facebook in which he more expansively makes the same point he was trying to make in the comment above. I think that Chris has a very valuable perspective on this so just wanted to make sure he gets his point across...

CHRIS BRISTOW ON RIDICULOUS LN ATTEMPTS TO ARGUE AWAY THE EXISTENCE OF THE OCCIPITAL-PARIETAL WOUND IN THE BACK OF JFK'S HEAD 

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/politicalassassinationsresearchgroup/posts/5533837433338947/

 

Chris Bristow wrote: 

 

"On the Parkland doctors issue Skeptics have multiple rationalizations all of which are very weak arguments. I think the Parkland issue is definitely the strongest Smoking Gun in the JFK case. The second most convincing argument is all of the ridiculous excuses that are made for the Parkland doctors. The fact they have no valid response speaks volumes.

 

They claim they were too busy to take a close look at the head wound. That's the stupidest argument of all and is completely and utterly refuted by the Warren Commission testimony of Peters, Perry, and Clark. But there is also a lot of corroboration from many other doctors. They also try and claim the doctors all capitulated in the Nova documentary done at the National Archives. But at Parkland we have at least 12 doctors and five nurses and a couple more staff that saw the hole in the back of the head. In the Nova documentary there are only four doctors present. The math alone proves the Nova documentary claim is a lie.

 

Sometimes they try and claim that the 19 plus staff members who saw the hole in the back of the head just got it wrong. And the three or four doctors who claim there was no hole in the back are correct. If those numbers were reversed and as a CT person I tried to argue that we should trust those four doctors over the 19 doctors I would be called a weak-minded conspiracy thinker. Who in their right mind would accept the testimony of four over the testimony of 19 plus? But that is exactly what the Skeptics do.

 

They also try and twist the story so that the Parkland staff were all saying the wound was in the very back of the head. Then they say if it was reported back there it must be wrong because he was laying on the back of his head and you couldn't see that area. The problem is the doctors were very clear about it being in the right rear. There are multiple video interviews when the doctors will say it was in the back of the head. But then they continue and place their hands in the right occipital parietal not the back of the head. Even McClelland can be quoted as saying it was in the back of the head. But he then reaches for the right occipital parietal as he says it. And other times he and others say "In the back of the head in the occipital parietal area". Nurse Bowron used the general term "Back of the head" in her WC testimony. But in a later interview she verified a drawing of the wound in the RIGHT occipital parietal There are many examples of the doctors making a general statement about the back of the head but then immediately and more specifically pointing to or saying the right rear. The claim that the doctors thought it was in the very back of the head is a up story, But you need to look at all the testimony and everything they said in interviews to confirm this.

 

There's a clip on YouTube that shows Audrey Bell, Dr McClelland and I think Dr Jones all stating the wound was in the back of the head. But when you see the full clips all three of them immediately point to the right occipital parietal after saying back of the head. But in the clip that amounts to nothing more than propaganda, the second bit of what they said or pointed to is cut out and you only see them saying it was in the back of the head. Who in their right mind after just a short period of studying the assassination could believe that Dr McClelland, the most vocal proponent of the right occipital parietal wound, would believe that manipulated sound bite?

 

Another famous argument is the Parkland doctors were all over the map regarding the location of the wound. They will show a picture of Theran Ward touching his fingers tips to the right mastoid process. The palm of his hand is over his ear so they make the claim that he was reporting the wound as being at the ear. But in his written report he stated it was " in the back of the head". That statement taken together with the photo of his fingertips at the mastoid would indicate he meant the right rear. I should note that in almost every single instance of a staff demonstrating the wound location they use their fingertips to locate it. Just as Theran Ward did I believe., they will show Doctor Dulany's photo with his hand higher than the occipital parietal, much closer to the official location, but in his Nova documentary statement he's called it the right occipital parietal. Personally I think he made a mistake in the photograph because he was not touching his fingers to his head. All you have to do is rock your head about 1 inch and it totally changes the location. I think he just made a mistake. To bolster my argument I would point to several of the staff like Dr Jones who have to feel around the back of their head with their fingertips to find the location. Dr Jones literally starts way down behind the ear, then moves up a couple inches, then moves up again to the location that matches McClelland and Dr Carrico and others. Dr Jones obviously knows his Anatomy and has been asked to point to that location many many times. Yet he still has to feel around for it in the back of the head as so many other staff members did. I assume because we have no visual map of the back of our own head to go by. I think that demonstrates that we have to give a little bit of leeway to the location of the wounds reported. But when you look at all the locations from Parkland as a whole and compare them to the official location there is a world of difference. The Parkland staff is very consistently behind and below the crown of the head and the official wound is on the top of the head.

 

Since I have been on Facebook I have debated the Parkland issue multiple times with the same Skeptics. After pasting images of testimony directly from the WC and posting multiple links the Skeptics never seem to retain this information. 6 months later the same people will come back and try and make the same utterly debunked arguments. they will come back and say the Nova documentary proves the doctors wrong. They will again claim the doctors never got a chance to take a close look. Even though I have posted Dr Clark's testimony in which he calls the wound mortal, and with the very next words out of his mouth he calls off the resuscitation and gives up on JFK. Of course he did! It would be unethical to continue the rough treatment the resuscitation inflicts on the patient when there is zero reason to do it. Mortal means he's not going to survive. It is not like having no heartbeat or respiration. Under those conditions you can say well if we continue maybe the heartbeat will start. But when the doctor uses the word mortal it is definitive. It means the patient is not surviving and there is no reason to continue resuscitation. So again with the next words out of Dr Clark's mouth he tells the doctors to stop. this is undeniable proof that the doctors got a good look yet even upon seeing this the Skeptics will return in 6 months and repeat the ludicrous argument that the doctors never got a chance to inspect that wound. I think they're fake memory loss is the third most powerful evidence for the Parkland staff. When it comes to Parkland the Skeptics can't seem to retain the information for more than a few months. Or they're XXXXX who are trying to pass off propaganda. I can understand the human nature of not wanting to admit you're wrong during the argument. But they return 6 months later and restate the false argument.

 

The only argument a skeptic can make is that a few of the doctors seem to contradict themselves later on. Most dramatically Dr Carrico completely flipped his story after 25 years or more. The day of the assassination he wrote occipital parietal in his notes. Several months later he testified under oath that the wound was right occipital parietal. 14 years later he doubled down and testified under oath again at the hsca. Again saying right occipital parietal. Then in an interview for the 6th floor Museum he decided to correct the record. He said that he didn't take those reports that seriously at the time and it had been a half hour since he had seen the body. So he wants to correct the notes from that day. Doesn't bother to mention that he testified under both twice. Did he lie twice? So he had the president of the United States laying there gunned down minutes before, yet he doesn't take the report that seriously in terms of the ballistics or wound locations? That's a serious crock of bull.

 

People often claim that the doctors testimony was just hearsay. As I understand it a person giving testimony under oath of something they personally experienced is called direct evidence. I know Keven is a lawyer so maybe he could clear that one up for me."

Thanks for noting the  misunderstanding. It was my fault when I characterized people who deny the O.C. wound as skeptics, when that term  usually defines CT skeptics.

 

[Michael Griffith]

14 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Most of the Parkland doctors were, however, unquestionably WRONG (i.e., mistaken) about the location of JFK's large head wound, and the autopsy photos and X-rays provide the undeniable proof that those Parkland physicians were wrong, and as such they all (for some inexplicable reason) experienced a "Mass Mistaken Observation" (for lack of a better phrase).

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com / The Back Of JFK's Head (Part 1)

So your argument is that dozens of people independently, and in three different locations, actually saw a large wound above the right ear but for some inexplicable reason mistook it for a large wound that was 3-4 inches farther back on the head and included part of the occiput, even though some of them actually handled the head or saw the wound up-close for several minutes, including the morticians who reassembled the skull after the autopsy. I don't see how anyone can truly, deep down, believe this. 

We now know that Dr. Finck questioned the authenticity of the back-of-head photo in his HSCA FPP testimony. We know that one of the FBI agents at the autopsy (Francis O'Neill) said the back-of-head photo looked "doctored" and did not show the head as he remembered it. We know that Saundra Spencer and Joe O'Donnell told the ARRB that they saw autopsy photos that showed a large hole in the back of the head.

We also know that the autopsy brain photos are fraudulent because the skull x-rays show a large portion of the right brain missing, whereas the autopsy photos show only 1-2 ounces of tissue missing (as Bugliosi foolishly and gladly acknowledged). We further know that bits of JFK's brain were blown onto at least 16 surfaces. 

I find it much more logical and easier to believe that a handful of autopsy photos are fraudulent than to believe that dozens of people, including doctors and nurses and morticians, independently mistook a large wound above the right ear for a large wound in the back of the head. 

[Pat Speer]

12 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Nice list, Keven.

I like to stick to Parkland witnesses because there is the added clandestine surgery to the head at Bethesda, as well as the entrance and exit of technicians, that complicate matters.

 

Do you believe the body was altered? Or the photos were faked? Or both?

And, IF you believe the body was altered, why are you and your new buddies going after me, who has a very small audience, and not Aguilar, who just denounced Horne and the whole body-was-altered nonsense in an article on Jim D's website? 

Do you even see the disconnect? Huh, Lifton and his followers say the body was altered but the photos are legit, and Groden, Aguilar and others suggest the body was not altered, but that the photos have been faked. These sides have been at war now for decades. It is nowhere close to a resolution. And yet people new to the fray seem to be willing to accept that both are correct, which doesn't make a lot of sense now, does it? 

If the body was altered to leave a false photographic record, then it makes no sense to believe the photos themselves were faked.

But if the body wasn't altered, then the photos would appear to have been faked, seeing as they don't directly align with the witness recollections. 

They are mutually exclusive positions. So how does one resolve this? I did the unthinkable, and actually went back to square one, and realized that those pushing the back-of-the-head argument (with the possible exception of Aguilar, who refuses to be tied down on a lot of this stuff) were pulling a bait-and-switch. They were pointing out inconsistencies within the witness recollections, and the tendency among many witnesses to place the wound further back than where it appears in the photos, to SELL that the far back of the head, the occipital bone, was blown out. And this, even though few credible witnesses placed a wound in this location.

And yet, where's the outrage? If the Warren Commission had used witnesses claiming they saw JFK react, and had misrepresented their statements to support that Connally was hit at the same time, in furtherance of their single-bullet conclusion, members of the CT community would have written chapters on it, and there would be threads on it. And yet, it seems I am the only member of the community to give a hoot that much of what's been written about the medical evidence, by supposed scholars, has been a con. 

No, instead, we have members repeating post after post insisting that people like William Newman and Charles Brehm and Bobby Hargis--people who insisted the back of the head was not blown out, or that all the shots came from behind--were prominent members of the back of the head club. And that I am just a meanie goat for pointing out that Robert McClelland's initial report--in keeping with the reports then on TV--mentioned a wound of the temple, and said nothing of a blow-out wound on the back of the head. Heresy!

Edited January 11 by Pat Speer

[Pat Speer]

14 hours ago, Keven Hofeling said:

The same day Parkland Hospital Admission Notes standing alone debunk your claims...

____________

COMMISSION EXHIBIT NO. 392: APPENDIX VIII - MEDICAL REPORTS FROM DOCTORS AT PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL, DALLAS, TEXAS: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/jfkinfo/app8.htm

Summary (By Dr. Kemp Clark)

The President arrived at the Emergency Room at 12:43 P. M., the 22nd of November, 1963. He was in the back seat of his limousine. Governor Connally of Texas was also in this car. The first physician to see the President was Dr. James Carrico, a Resident in General Surgery.

Dr. Carrico noted the President to have slow, agenal respiratory efforts. He could hear a heartbeat but found no pulse or blood pressure to be present. Two external wounds, one in the lower third of the anterior neck, the other in the occipital region of the skull, were noted. Through the head wound, blood and brain were extruding. Dr. Carrico inserted a cuffed endotracheal tube. While doing so, he noted a ragged wound of the trachea immediately below the larynx.

At this time, Dr. Malcolm Perry, Attending Surgeon, Dr. Charles Baxter, Attending Surgeon, and Dr. Ronald Jones, another Resident in General Surgery, arrived. Immediately thereafter, Dr. M. T. Jenkins, Director of the Department of Anesthesia, and Doctors Giesecke and Hunt, two other Staff Anesthesiologists, arrived. The endotracheal tube had been connected to a Bennett respirator to assist the President's breathing. An Anesthesia machine was substituted for this by Dr. Jenkins. Only 100% oxygen was administered.

A cutdown was performed in the right ankle, and a polyethylene catheter inserted in the vein. An infusion of lactated Ringer's solution was begun. Blood was drawn for type and crossmatch, but unmatched type "O" RH negative blood was immediately obtained and begun. Hydrocortisone 300 mgms was added to the intravenous fluids.

Dr. Robert McClelland, Attending Surgeon, arrived to help in the President's care. Doctors Perry, Baxter, and McClelland began a tracheostomy, as considerable quantities of blood were present from the President's oral pharynx. At this time, Dr. Paul Peters, Attending Urological Surgeon, and Dr. Kemp Clark, Director of Neurological Surgery arrived. Because of the lacerated trachea, anterior chest tubes were place in both pleural spaces. These were connected to sealed underwater drainage.

Neurological examination revealed the President's pupils to be widely dialted and fixed to light. His eyes were divergent, being deviated outward; a skew deviation from the horizontal was present. Not deep tendon reflexes or spontaneous movements were found.

There was a large wound in the right occipito-parietal region, from which profuse bleeding was occurring. 1500 cc. of blood were estimated on the drapes and floor of the Emergency Operating Room. There was considerable loss of scalp and bone tissue. Both cerebral and cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound.

Further examination was not possible as cardiac arrest occurred at this point. Closed chest cardiac massage was begun by Dr. Clark. A pulse palpable in both the carotid and femoral arteries was obtained. Dr. Perry relieved on the cardiac massage while a cardiotachioscope was connected. Dr. Fouad Bashour, Attending Physician, arrived as this was being connected. There was electrical silence of the President's heart.

President Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1300 hours by Dr. Clark

Kemp Clark, M. D.
Director
Service of Neurological Surgery
KC:aa

cc to Dean's Office, Southwestern Medical School
cc to Medical Records, Parkland Memorial Hospital

______________________________________________________________________________________

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

J. F. KENNEDY

DATE AND HOUR 11/22/63 1620 DOCTOR: Carrico

When patient entered Emergency room on ambulance carriage had slow agonal respiratory efforts and scant cardiac beats by auscultation. Two external wounds were noted. One small penetrating wound of ant. neck in lower 1/3. The other wound had avulsed the calvarium and shredded brain tissue present with profuse oozing. No pulse or blood pressure were present. Pupils were dilated and fixed. A cuffed endotracheal tube was inserted and through the laryngoscope a ragged wound of the trachea was seen immediately below the larynx. The tube was passed past the laceration and the cuff inflated. Respiration using the resp assistor on auto-matic were instituted. Concurrently an IV infusion of lactated Ringer solution was begun via catheter placed in right leg and blood was drawn for type and crossmatch. Type O Rh negative blood was obtained as well as hydrocortisone.

In view of tracheal injury and decreased BS an tracheostomy was performed by Dr. Perry and Bilat. chest tubes inserted. A 2^nd bld infusion was begun in left arm. In addition Dr. Jenkins began resp with anethesia machine, cardiac monitor, and stimulator attached. Solu cortef IV given (300mg), attempt to control slow oozing from cerebral and cerebellar tissue via packs instituted. Despite these measures as well as external cardiac massage, BP never returned and EKG evidence of cardiac activity was never obtained.

Charles J. Carrico M.D.

 

---

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

J. F. KENNEDY

DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963 DOCTOR: PERRY

Staff Note

At the time of initial examination, the pt. was noted as non-responsive. The eyes were deviated and the pupils were dilated. A considerable quantity of blood was noted on the patient, the carriage and the floor. A small wound was noted in the midline of the neck, in the lower third anteriorly. It was exuding blood slowly. A large wound of the right posterior cranium was noted, exposing severely lacerated brain. Brain tissue was noted in the blood at the head of the carriage.

Pulse or heartbeat were not detectable but slow spasmodic respiration was noted. An endotracheal tube was in place and respiration was being assisted. An intravenous infusion was being placed in the leg.

At this point I noted that respiration was ineffective and while additional venisections were done to administer fluids and blood, a tracheostomy was effected. A right lateral injury to the trachea was noted. The tracheostomy tube was put in place and the cuff inflated and respiration assisted. Closed chest cardiac massage was instituted after placement of sealed drainage chest tubes, but without benefit. Electrocardiographic evaluation revealed that no detectable electrical activity existed in the heart. Resuscitation attempts were abandoned after the team of physicians determined that the patient had expired.

Malcolm O. Perry, M.D.
1630 hr 22 Nov 1963

 

---

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

DATE AND HOUR NOV 22, 1963 DOCTOR: BAXTER

Note of Attendance to President Kennedy.

I was contacted at approx 12:40 that the President was on the way to the emergency room having been shot. On arrival there, I found an endotracheal tube in place with assisted respirations, a left chest tube being inserted and cut downs going in one leg and in the left arm. The President had a wound in the mid-line of the neck. On first observation of the remaining wounds the rt temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was lying on the table, with .extensive lacerations and contusions. The pupils were fixed and deviated lateral and dilated. No pulse was detectable and respirations were (as noted) being supplied. A tracheotomy was performed by Dr. Perry and I and a chest tube inserted into the right chest (2^nd intercostal space anteriorally). Meanwhile, 2 pts of O neg blood were administered by pump without response. When all of these measures were complete, no heart beat could be detected. Close chest message was performed until a cardioscope could be attached which revealed no cardiac activity was obtained. Due to the excessive and irreparable brain damage which was lethal, no further attempt to resuscitate the heart was made.

Charles R. Baxter M.D.
Associate Prof of Surgery
Southwestern Medical School

 

---

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

JOHN F. KENNEDY

DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963 DOCTOR: [KEMP CLARK]

12:20pm to 13:00 hrs

Called by EOR while standing in (illegible) Laboratory at SWMS. Told that the President had been shot. I arrived at the EOR at 1220 - 1225 and .The President was bleeding profusely from the back of the head. There was a large (3 x 3cm) amount of cerebral tissue present on the cart. There was a smaller amount of cerebellar tissue present also.

A tracheostomy was being performed by Drs. Perry, Baxter and McClelland. Exam of the President showed that an endotracheal tube was in place and respiratory assistance was being given by Dr. Akins and Jenkins. The pupils were dilated, fixed to light and his eyes were deviated outward and the right one downward as as well .

The trach was completed and I adjusted the endotracheal tube a little bit. Blood was present in the oral pharynx. Suction was used to remove this. Levine Catheter was passed into the stomach at this time.

He was (illegible) that I (illegible) no carotid pulse. I immediately began closed chest massage. A pulse was obtained at the carotid and femoral pulse levels.

Dr. Perry then took over the cardiac massage so I could evaluate the head wound.

There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into the parietal region. Much of the skull appeared gone at brief examination . The previously described lacerated brain was present.

By this time an EKG was hooked up. There was no electrical activity of the heart and no respiratory effort - He was pronounced dead at 1300 hrs by me.

W. Kemp Clark
22 Nov 1963
1615 hrs -

 

---

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: Robert N. McClelland

Statement Regarding Assassination of President Kennedy

At approximately 12:45 PM on the above date I was called from the second floor of Parkland Hospital and went immediately to the Emergency Operating Room. When I arrived President Kennedy was being attended by Drs Malcolm Perry, Charles Baxter, James Carrico, and Ronald Jones. The President was at the time comatose from a massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube and assisted respiration was started immediately by Dr. Carrico on Duty in the EOR when the President arrived. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and I then performed a tracheotomy for respiratory distress and tracheal injury and Dr. Jones and Paul Peters inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoracis secondary to the tracheomediastinal injury. Simultaneously Dr. Jones had started 3 cut-downs giving blood and fluids immediately, In spite of this, at 12:55 he was pronounced dead by Dr. Kemp Clark the neurosurgeon and professor of neurosurgery who arrived immediately after I did. The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple. He was pronounced dead after external cardiac message failed and ECG activity was gone.

Robert N. McClelland M.D.
Asst. Prof. of Surgery
Southwestern Med.
School of Univ of Tex.
Dallas, Texas

 

---

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: BASHOUR

Statement Regarding Assassination of the President of the U.S.A., President Kennedy.

At 12:50 PM, we were called from the 1st floor of Parkland Hospital and told that President Kennedy was shot. Dr. D ?? and myself went to the emergency room of Parkland. Upon examination, the President had no pulsation, no heartbeat, no blood pressure. The oscilloscope showed a complete standstill. The president was declared dead at 12:55 P.M.

F. Bashour M.D.
Associate Professor of Cardiology
Southwestern Medical School
Dallas, Texas.

 

---

THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS
SOUTHWESTERN MEDICAL SCHOOL
DALLAS

November 22, 1963
1630

To: Mr. C.J. Price, Administrator Parkland Memorial Hospital

From: M.T. Jenkins, M.D., Professor and Chairman Department of Anesthesiology

Subject: Statement concerning resusciative efforts for President John F. Kennedy

Upon receiving a stat alarm that this distinguished patient was being brought to the emergency room at Parkland Memorial Hospital, I dispatched Doctors A . H. Giesecke and Jackie H. Hunt with an anesthesia machine and resuscitative equipment to the major surgical emergency room area, and I ran down the stairs . On my arrival in the emergency operating room at approximately 1230 I found that Doctors Carrico and/or Delaney had begun resuscitative efforts by introducing an orotracheal tube, connecting it for controlled ventilation to a Bennett intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus . Doctors Charles Baxter, Malcolm Perry, and Robert McClelland arrived at the same time and began a tracheostomy and started the insertion of a right chest tube, since there was also obvious tracheal and chest damage . Doctors Paul Peters and Kemp Clark arrived simultaneously and immediately thereafter assisted respectively with the insertion of the right chest tube and with manual closed chest cardiac compression to assure circulation.

For better control of artificial ventilation, I exchanged the intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus for an anesthesia machine and continued artificial ventilation . Doctors Gene Akin and A . H. Giesecke assisted with the respiratory problems incident to changing from the orotracheal tube to a tracheostomy tube, and Doctors Hunt and Giesecke connected a cardioscope to determine cardiac activity.

During the progress of these activities, the emergency room cart was elevated at the feet in order to provide a Trendelenburg position, a venous cutdown was performed on the right saphenous vein, and additional fluids were begun in a vein in the left forearm while blood was ordered from the blood bank . All of these activities were completed by approximately 1245, at which time external cardiac massage was still being carried out effectively by Doctor Clark as judged by a palpable peripheral pulse. Despite these measures there was no electrocardiographic evidence of cardiac activity .

These described resuscitative activities were indicated as of first importance, and after they were carried out attention was turned to all other evidences of injury . There was a great laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital), causing a great defect in the skull plate so that there was herniation and laceration of great areas of the brain, even to the extent that the cerebellum had protruded from the wound. There were also fragmented sections of brain on the drapes of the emergency room cart . With the institution of adequate cardiac compression, there was a great flow of blood from the cranial cavity, indicating that there was much vascular damage as well as brain tissue damage .

It is my personal feeling that all methods of resuscitation were instituted expeditiously and efficiently . However, this cranial and intracranial damage was of such magnitude as to cause the irreversible damage . President Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1300 .

Sincerely,
/s/ M. T. Jenkins
M. T. Jenkins, M.D .

____________

 

Okay. That's seven witnesses describing something in reports written hours after the fact, and after they'd discussed this something amongst themselves and others. How consistent are they, really, with both each other, and with the so-called McClelland drawing supposedly depicting what they saw? And how well do they stand up? 

Carrico: Carrico did not identify a precise location for the wound in his initial statement, and later disavowed his claim of seeing cerebellum, by admitting he never even looked at the back of JFK's head. Carrico's words do not support that occipital bone was missing.

Perry: Perry said the wound was on the right posterior cranium, which is certainly in line with how the wound in the photographs might be described by someone viewing it from above, with the patient on his back. As he did not mention cerebellum, moreover, there is nothing in his report that is controversial, or indicates the shot came from the front. Perry's words do not support that occipital bone was missing. 

Baxter: Baxter's description of the wound as temporal and occipital indicated it was on the side of the head, at the rear, presumably forward of its location in the McClelland drawing. This suggested a frontal entry. Apparently, Baxter realized this mistake because he changed the words to temporal and parietal in his testimony, and observed that a "temporal parietal plate of bone laid outward to the side." Well, this would seem to be a reference to the "wing" of bone seen in the photographs, the photographs he had not seen. Of course, no such wing existed on the President at Parkland, according to the back of the head crowd, and no such wing is depicted in the McClelland drawing. In sum, then, Baxter's words do not support that occipital bone was missing. 

Clark: After the first few weeks, Clark refused to comment on what he saw, outside of his telling the Warren Commission what he saw was consistent with a shot from behind. He did however speak to the press in the 80's to denounce conspiracy theorists, and he also teamed up with single-assassin theorist John Lattimer to conduct experiments helpful to Lattimer's cause. In his initial press conference, and his subsequent Warren Commission testimony, Clark discussed the possibility the wound was a tangential wound of both entrance and exit. So...it's hard to say what Clark believed at the end. If I had to guess, I'd say he was comfortable with the Oswald did it solution, but continued to feel the large wound was a tangential wound, and kept this silence because well, he didn't want to stir up a hornet's nest. 

McClelland: McClelland mentioned but one head wound in his report, a wound of the left temple. Although he later claimed the wound he saw was essentially the wound as described by Clark, we have reason to doubt this was his original recollection, seeing as he told Richard Dudman within days of the shooting that there was nothing about this wound to suggest a shot from the front. 

Bashour: Bashour said nothing of significance regarding the head wound in his report. 

Jenkins: Jenkins essentially disavowed his report, claiming he was mistaken about the cerebellum, and the wound's being occipital. The thought occurs that he was following the lead of others when writing his report, and then came to believe they were wrong. In any event, his initial report supported what back of the head devotees want to believe, and his subsequent words crushed them, to the extent even that many came to believe he was a deliberate xxxx, or even part of a plot. 

And that's it. Not one doctor writing a report on the Presidents wounds on 11-22-63 described the wound as an occipital wound, and publicly stuck by their description after it became clear their description was controversial. 

There is no there there. A bunch of people at a ball game said the runner was safe, and agreed he was out after watching the replay. Except for two: one who wouldn't commit to safe or not safe after the runner was called out, and another who originally said he couldn't tell, but then said he was safe after talking with the others, and then refused to accept the replay, while claiming it was deceptive. 

Edited January 11 by Pat Speer

[Michael Griffith]

57 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Okay. That's seven witnesses describing something in reports written hours after the fact, and after they'd discussed this something amongst themselves and others. How consistent are they, really, with both each other, and with the so-called McClelland drawing supposedly depicting what they saw? And how well do they stand up? 

Carrico: Carrico did not identify a precise location for the wound in his initial statement, and later disavowed his claim of seeing cerebellum, by admitting he never even looked at the back of JFK's head. Carrico's words do not support that occipital bone was missing.

Perry: Perry said the wound was on the right posterior cranium, which is certainly in line with how the wound in the photographs might be described by someone viewing it from above, with the patient on his back. As he did not mention cerebellum, moreover, there is nothing in his report that is controversial, or indicates the shot came from the front. Perry's words do not support that occipital bone was missing. 

Baxter: Baxter's description of the wound as temporal and occipital indicated it was on the side of the head, at the rear, presumably forward of its location in the McClelland drawing. This suggested a frontal entry. Apparently, Baxter realized this mistake because he changed the words to temporal and parietal in his testimony, and observed that a "temporal parietal plate of bone laid outward to the side." Well, this would seem to be a reference to the "wing" of bone seen in the photographs, the photographs he had not seen. Of course, no such wing existed on the President at Parkland, according to the back of the head crowd, and no such wing is depicted in the McClelland drawing. In sum, then, Baxter's words do not support that occipital bone was missing. 

Clark: After the first few weeks, Clark refused to comment on what he saw, outside of his telling the Warren Commission what he saw was consistent with a shot from behind. He did however speak to the press in the 80's to denounce conspiracy theorists, and he also teamed up with single-assassin theorist John Lattimer to conduct experiments helpful to Lattimer's cause. In his initial press conference, and his subsequent Warren Commission testimony, Clark discussed the possibility the wound was a tangential wound of both entrance and exit. So...it's hard to say what Clark believed at the end. If I had to guess, I'd say he was comfortable with the Oswald did it solution, but continued to feel the large wound was a tangential wound, and kept this silence because well, he didn't want to stir up a hornet's nest. 

McClelland: McClelland mentioned but one head wound in his report, a wound of the left temple. Although he later claimed the wound he saw was essentially the wound as described by Clark, we have reason to doubt this was his original recollection, seeing as he told Richard Dudman within days of the shooting that there was nothing about this wound to suggest a shot from the front. 

Bashour: Bashour said nothing of significance regarding the head wound in his report. 

Jenkins: Jenkins essentially disavowed his report, claiming he was mistaken about the cerebellum, and the wound's being occipital. The thought occurs that he was following the lead of others when writing his report, and then came to believe they were wrong. In any event, his initial report supported what back of the head devotees want to believe, and his subsequent words crushed them, to the extent even that many came to believe he was a deliberate xxxx, or even part of a plot. 

And that's it. Not one doctor writing a report on the Presidents wounds on 11-22-63 described the wound as an occipital wound, and publicly stuck by their description after it became clear their description was controversial. 

There is no there there. A bunch of people at a ball game said the runner was safe, and agreed he was out after watching the replay. Except for two: one who wouldn't commit to safe or not safe after the runner was called out, and another who originally said he couldn't tell, but then said he was safe after talking with the others, and then refused to accept the replay, while claiming it was deceptive. 

As usual, you are being very selective in your choice of witnesses and statements. 

How about the nurses who saw, and in one case handled, a large back-of-head wound? How about the morticians who saw, handled, and filled a large back-of-head wound? How about the federal agents who saw a large back-of-head wound (even though they thought it was an exit wound from a shot from the rear)? How about the funeral worker who felt the edges of the back-of-head wound as he helped put the body in the casket? How about the other witnesses at the autopsy who saw a large back-of-head wound (Karnei, Reed, McHugh, Canada, Ebersole, Stringer [first interview], Custer [first interview], etc.)? How about the autopsy photographer and the autopsy photo lab technician who said they saw autopsy photos that showed a large back-of-head wound? How about the newsman at Parkland who saw a large back-of-head wound? How about the 11/22/63 Parkland reports that mention a right occipital-parietal wound? 

Why do you suppose Finck questioned the authenticity of the back-of-head autopsy photo? What about the brazen contradiction between the skull x-rays and the brain photos regarding the amount of missing brain (much of the right brain missing vs. only 1-2 ounces of brain missing)? 

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Michael Griffith said:

As usual, you are being very selective in your choice of witnesses and statements. 

How about the nurses who saw, and in one case handled, a large back-of-head wound? How about the morticians who saw, handled, and filled a large back-of-head wound? How about the federal agents who saw a large back-of-head wound (even though they thought it was an exit wound from a shot from the rear)? How about the funeral worker who felt the edges of the back-of-head wound as he helped put the body in the casket? How about the other witnesses at the autopsy who saw a large back-of-head wound (Karnei, Reed, McHugh, Canada, Ebersole, Stringer [first interview], Custer [first interview], etc.)? How about the autopsy photographer and the autopsy photo lab technician who said they saw autopsy photos that showed a large back-of-head wound? How about the newsman at Parkland who saw a large back-of-head wound? How about the 11/22/63 Parkland reports that mention a right occipital-parietal wound? 

Why do you suppose Finck questioned the authenticity of the back-of-head autopsy photo? What about the brazen contradiction between the skull x-rays and the brain photos regarding the amount of missing brain (much of the right brain missing vs. only 1-2 ounces of brain missing)? 

You seem like a smart guy, Michael. So it's bizarre to me that you continue to cite so many myths, and cite so many people as back of the head witnesses who signed off on the autopsy photos, or claimed they took the-rays showing the back of the head was intact, etc. They are not back of the head witnesses simply because...fill in the writer..pretends they are. 

Take, for example, Canada. Robert Canada was introduced as a back of the head witness in a book in which the author routinely cited phone calls made with famous people...who were dead at the time. This author claimed to call up Canada years before he began calling up others--he just called him out of the blue--and that Canada confessed to him, a total stranger. He then claimed he'd withheld this info for decades because Canada--once again, someone who did not know him--made him promise to never tell anyone for 25 years after the call. Only...this author attended JFK conferences after 25 years had passed, and before he published his book, and said nothing. It's transparent bullcrap, that anyone worth reading would avoid. 

As far as that last post... I was responding to a post citing the 11-22 repors. So it was only natural I responded by discussing the history of the men who wrote those reports, and whether they stood by those reports. People keep saying they all said the same thing, and are thereby 100% reliable. Well, I showed that wasn't true. 

Edited January 11 by Pat Speer

[David Von Pein]

9 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

So your argument is that dozens of people independently, and in three different locations, actually saw a large wound above the right ear but for some inexplicable reason mistook it for a large wound that was 3-4 inches farther back on the head and included part of the occiput, even though some of them actually handled the head or saw the wound up-close for several minutes, including the morticians who reassembled the skull after the autopsy. I don't see how anyone can truly, deep down, believe this. 

Due to Jackie's handiwork of "trying to hold his head on" during the ride to Parkland, most of the witnesses probably didn't get to see the full WIDE-OPEN extent of the large head wound at the right-front of the head.

They, instead, saw all the gore/blood/brains that was pooling at the RIGHT-REAR of JFK's head on the gurney. This led those witnesses to believe there was a large "wound" at the right-rear, when, in fact, no such "wound" was there at all (as proven by the autopsy pictures AND X-rays).

That's not exactly a perfectly satisfying explanation--even for me. And I'm sure all CTers think such an explanation is totally laughable, preposterous, and idiotic. But it's the best I can do. (And it's Dr. Michael Baden's best explanation as well -- Click Here.)

 

Edited January 12 by David Von Pein