David Ferrie

[Stephen Roy]

Sorry, upload of the Martin-Long document failed again. I might try emailing it to John Simkin, for posting.

On this day in Ferrie history, February 18, 1967:

On the previous day, Rosemary James had published her NOSI article, making public that Garrison was investigating the Kennedy assassination. Dave Ferrie phoned Lou Ivon to complain bitterly. At 5:30, he called Pershing Gervais, who suggested that he contact the press. Ferrie then phoned Dave Snyder of the NOSI/NOTP and said he wanted to give him info about the probe. Snyder sat with Ferrie from 6-10:30pm. Just after Snyder left, Ferrie received a call from Sam DePino of channel 12 and spoke with him for about 20 minutes.

On this day, the NOTP headline was "DA Won't Confirm JFK Plot Probe On". The NOSI headlined "Definite JFK PLOT, DA Aide Is Quoted". In this atricle, Snyder brought Ferrie's name to full public attention for the first time and quoted his comments from the previous night.

Ferrie called Lou Ivon to see how the probe was going. Ivon and Andrew Sciambra went to Ferrie's aprtment and interviewed him. (Ferrie was complaining of not feeling well. He also suggested that he did not know Clay Bertrand or Clay Shaw.) Ferrie began formulating plans for a lawsuit against Garrison and Jack Martin.

Back at Tulane and Broad, Garrison's staff was questioning friends and acquaintences of Ferrie, including Mel Coffey and Dante Marochini.

[Greg Parker]

The group Martin and Ferrie were associated with was the "Byzantine Primitive Catholic Church, Old catholic Church in N.A., Apostolic, Orthodox, Catholic, Order of Saint John", according to the consecration certificates. The group Ferrie alone was associated with was the "Society of the Domestic Missionaries Of Saint Basil the Great", according to his membership card.

Thanks for the correction and the addional information. The same applies, though. Right wing. anti-Semitic and with common lineage to Old Catholics and Russian Orthodox.

These fringe churches were, at times, used as cover by government agaencies and private groups for various covert activites. Ollie North, for instance, used a "priest" named Tom Dowling of the Celtic Catolic Church (a branch of Old Catholics) to give false testiminy to counter claims of massacres conducted by Contras.

The Order of Saint John was AKA the Knights of Malta... according to Phillip Agee's Covert Action Information Bulletin, The Knights of Malta helped Hitler to power and had ties to Ghelan's organisation.

The Knights of Malta also helped in counter-insurgency and counter-revolutionary projects in Latin America under guise of humanitarian aid.

Mr. J.S. Martin

PO Box 357

New Orleans 9, La.

Dear Jack:

You may be sure that I will put in a good word with Health, Education and Welfare. I know they will be glad to continue to work with you.

I am glad to have theinformation on Stanley and I am adding it to my file. Keep me advised of further developments in this regards.

With every good wish, I am

Sincerely yours,

Russell

(Martin's handwritten note:)

Dear Russell: This will serve to introduce Mr. Richard Robey of the FAA. Will you please give Dick any help he may need concerniong the matter he will bring up. Thanks, Jack.

I am aware of the note. Martin was known to have a lot of forged documents. If you have any HEW records confirming Martin was hired as an investigator by them, I'd accept it. The note is worthless as evidence on its own.

On July 6, the report’s author, Robert Reid, spoke on the issue and mentioned one particular degree mill.

Renewed activity has been reported by an Italian-based institute that deals

both in doctoral and post-doctoral degrees and honors. “Minerva University”,

also known as “Phoenix University” in Bari, Italy is offering American students

correspondence degrees in a wide variety of subjects from advertising to

sanitary engineering.

It claims to be a member of the “American Council of Students and Colleges”,

an organization not listed in any official American directory.

In answer to an official inquiry about the institution, Dr. Fillipo Domini,

director of the Instituto Italiano di Cultura, the Italian cultural office in New

York, wrote that the Bari institutes “are not legally accepted by the Italian

government and the degrees granted by them have no validity according to

Italian law.”

Do you believe Ferrie obtained his "degree" from Bari as part of the HEW investigation? If so... on what basis?

If not, then you have someone who was part of the problem (ie a "customer" of a degree mill) hired to investigate those very same organisations.

I was just relating what the man said [in relation to two minor brain bleeds Ferrie is alleged to have suffered]. He did examine the body.

And I was just relating how meaningless those bleeds are in trying to determine the manner/cause of Ferrie's death.

No, that [Lambert's interview with Dr Welsh]  is not my source [for information on the minor brain bleeds].

It is the source you've quoted in the past.

Lambert's source on Ferrie's condition is Dr. Ronald A. Welsh, whom she interviewed in 1993. Welsh told her that microscopic slides of Ferrie's brain tissue indicated that in addition to blood vessel perforating, there was "scar tissue indicating that Ferrie had had another bleed, a small one, previously . . . at least one or two of them at least two weeks before he died. This is a common occurence with Berry aneurysms," Welsh told her, "people have one or two before they blow out completely . . . His headaches were from the early bleeds" (Lambert, 302 fn.).

The above is from your archived newsgroup posts held on Mr Reitzes anti-Garrison website.

[Stephen Roy]

The group Martin and Ferrie were associated with was the "Byzantine Primitive Catholic Church, Old catholic Church in N.A., Apostolic, Orthodox, Catholic, Order of Saint John", according to the consecration certificates. The group Ferrie alone was associated with was the "Society of the Domestic Missionaries Of Saint Basil the Great", according to his membership card.

Thanks for the correction and the addional information. The same applies, though. Right wing. anti-Semitic and with common lineage to Old Catholics and Russian Orthodox.

I have the impression from the investigative materials that there was a fair amount of infighting within and between some of these groups. Any source on the orientation of these specific groups?

These fringe churches were, at times, used as cover by government agaencies and private groups for various covert activites. Ollie North, for instance, used a "priest" named Tom Dowling of the Celtic Catolic Church (a branch of Old Catholics) to give false testiminy to counter claims of massacres conducted by Contras.

The Order of Saint John was AKA the Knights of Malta... according to Phillip Agee's Covert Action Information Bulletin, The Knights of Malta helped Hitler to power and had ties to Ghelan's organisation.

The Knights of Malta also helped in counter-insurgency and counter-revolutionary projects in Latin America under guise of humanitarian aid.

Mr. J.S. Martin

PO Box 357

New Orleans 9, La.

Dear Jack:

You may be sure that I will put in a good word with Health, Education and Welfare. I know they will be glad to continue to work with you.

I am glad to have theinformation on Stanley and I am adding it to my file. Keep me advised of further developments in this regards.

With every good wish, I am

Sincerely yours,

Russell

(Martin's handwritten note:)

Dear Russell: This will serve to introduce Mr. Richard Robey of the FAA. Will you please give Dick any help he may need concerniong the matter he will bring up. Thanks, Jack.

I am aware of the note. Martin was known to have a lot of forged documents. If you have any HEW records confirming Martin was hired as an investigator by them, I'd accept it. The note is worthless as evidence on its own.

I wouldn't dismiss it entirely. Martin was on friendly terms with Long. The letter appears genuine (but as of yesterday, I wasn't able to upload it. I'll be glad to email it to someone who can upload it.) There is some corroboration in Ferrie's statement to the FBI, and in both Ferrie's and Banister's testimony at Ferrie's EAL hearing, where both also expressed surprise that Martin would have an HEW connection.

On July 6, the report’s author, Robert Reid, spoke on the issue and mentioned one particular degree mill.

Renewed activity has been reported by an Italian-based institute that deals

both in doctoral and post-doctoral degrees and honors. “Minerva University”,

also known as “Phoenix University” in Bari, Italy is offering American students

correspondence degrees in a wide variety of subjects from advertising to

sanitary engineering.

It claims to be a member of the “American Council of Students and Colleges”,

an organization not listed in any official American directory.

In answer to an official inquiry about the institution, Dr. Fillipo Domini,

director of the Instituto Italiano di Cultura, the Italian cultural office in New

York, wrote that the Bari institutes “are not legally accepted by the Italian

government and the degrees granted by them have no validity according to

Italian law.”

Do you believe Ferrie obtained his "degree" from Bari as part of the HEW investigation? If so... on what basis?

No. I think he saw it as a way to bolster his academic credentials, and it is ironic that he later claimed to have been involved in an investigation that was targeting mills like Phoenix.

If not, then you have someone who was part of the problem (ie a "customer" of a degree mill) hired to investigate those very same organisations.

I was just relating what the man said [in relation to two minor brain bleeds Ferrie is alleged to have suffered]. He did examine the body.

And I was just relating how meaningless those bleeds are in trying to determine the manner/cause of Ferrie's death.

I was just relating that the man who performed the autopsy did think they were relevant.

No, that [Lambert's interview with Dr Welsh]  is not my source [for information on the minor brain bleeds].

It is the source you've quoted in the past.

Things have changed since then. I have new medical information concerning Ferrie.

Lambert's source on Ferrie's condition is Dr. Ronald A. Welsh, whom she interviewed in 1993. Welsh told her that microscopic slides of Ferrie's brain tissue indicated that in addition to blood vessel perforating, there was "scar tissue indicating that Ferrie had had another bleed, a small one, previously . . . at least one or two of them at least two weeks before he died. This is a common occurence with Berry aneurysms," Welsh told her, "people have one or two before they blow out completely . . . His headaches were from the early bleeds" (Lambert, 302 fn.).

The above is from your archived newsgroup posts held on Mr Reitzes anti-Garrison website.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Shanet Clark]

If I had done all the things David Ferrie did, I would probably have a stroke, too!

Edited February 19, 2005 by Shanet Clark

[Greg Parker]

I have the impression from the investigative materials that there was a fair amount of infighting within and between some of these groups.

I can't verify that, but it could be true... in much the same way that various socialist groups detested each other... so it may have been with these various sects that sprang from common sources.

Any source on the orientation of these specific groups?

I would have thought you'd done some research on them of your own for your book?

It's not exactly any big secret that the Order of Saint John is one and the same as The Knights of Malta. The Catholic Encyclopaedia gives a fairly detailed history up until the 1800s.

The Old Catholic Church itself is one source for its historical links to the Russian Orthodox Church.

We will examine the traditions of the Western and Eastern lineage herein. The Old Catholic Church of the United States bears its Apostolic lineage from the Ancient Catholic Church of the Netherlands, the Syrian Orthodox (Oriental) Church of Antioch, and the Russian Orthodox Church.

http://www.oldcatholic.com/ochistory.html

Basilians still laud Father Charles Coughlin - known to history as The Father of Hate.

We might mention here as well, the great work of a former Basilian, Father Charles E. Coughlin, in the area of social justice.

http://www.basilian.org/Publica/Opapers/2003August_num32.htm

There are many examples of anti-Communist activities of these churches, as there are of ties between some of them and various hate groups.

I wouldn't dismiss it entirely. Martin was on friendly terms with Long. The letter appears genuine (but as of yesterday, I wasn't able to upload it. I'll be glad to email it to someone who can upload it.) There is some corroboration in Ferrie's statement to the FBI, and in both Ferrie's and Banister's testimony at Ferrie's EAL hearing, where both also expressed surprise that Martin would have an HEW connection.

Of course the letter "appears" genuine. His collection of forged documents likewise "appeared" genuine. Like I said... something confirming it from the records of HEW would do the trick. You've got the fox corroborating the coyote.

I was just relating that the man who performed the autopsy did think they [the minor brain bleeds]were relevant.

How relevant could they be to his his death if they did not warrant a mention in the autopsy report? Why no mention of them at all until a 1993 interview with Lambert?

No. I think he saw it as a way to bolster his academic credentials, and it is ironic that he later claimed to have been involved in an investigation that was targeting mills like Phoenix.

Ironic's one word... I could think of more apt ones...

No, that [Lambert's interview with Dr Welsh]  is not my source [for information on the minor brain bleeds].

It is the source you've quoted in the past.

Things have changed since then. I have new medical information concerning Ferrie.

Confirmation from other doctors that Ferrie had those minor bleeds, or general interpretations of his medical and autopsy reports?

If the latter is the case, would Robert Artwohl be one the doctors you're going to rely upon for an opinion?

[Stephen Roy]

I have the impression from the investigative materials that there was a fair amount of infighting within and between some of these groups.

I can't verify that, but it could be true... in much the same way that various socialist groups detested each other... so it may have been with these various sects that sprang from common sources.

THE SOUTHERN RESEARCH REPORTS DEATAL SOME INFIGHTING WITH THESE SPECIFIC GROUPS.

Any source on the orientation of these specific groups?

I would have thought you'd done some research on them of your own for your book?

AND YOU WOULD HAVE THOUGHT CORRECTLY. I HAVE A FAIR AMOUNT OF MATERIAL ON THESE SPECIFIC GROUPS, AND I'VE LOCATED AND SPOKEN TO A FEW PARTICIPANTS. IT ISN'T EASY, SO MANY YEARS LATER, AS DOCUMENTS ARE NOT AS EASY TO FIND AS IN NARA. BUT I'VE MADE SOME HEADWAY.

WHAT I WAS ASKING FOR WAS YOUR SOURCE(S) REGARDING THSES PARTICULAR GROUPS, AND THE RIGHT-WING ORIENTATION. IN THE CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN FERRIE AND OTHERS IN THESE GROUPS, I'VE SEEN NOTHING OF ANY POLITICAL NATURE, RIGHTIST OR OTHERWISE. ALL THEOLOGICAL. AND I'M TRYING NOT TO CONFUSE THEM WITH DIFFERENT GROUPS WITH SIMILAR SOUNDING NAMES.

FERRIE'S RELATIONSHIP WITH THESE SPECIFIC GROUPS IS COMPLEX. AT FIRST, HE SEEMED TO BE INVESTIGATING THEM; THEN HE SEEMED TO SHIFT TO A SINCERE INTEREST, POSSIBLY DUE TO HIS BURNING DESIRE TO PURSUE A CALLING. ONCE HE WAS WITH THE BASILIAN SECT, THEY SEEMED TO SPEND MANY MONTHS TRYING TO CONTACT HIM.

It's not exactly any big secret that the Order of Saint John is one and the same as The Knights of Malta. The Catholic Encyclopaedia gives a fairly detailed history up until the 1800s.

The Old Catholic Church itself is one source for its historical links to the Russian Orthodox Church.

We will examine the traditions of the Western and Eastern lineage herein. The Old Catholic Church of the United States bears its Apostolic lineage from the Ancient Catholic Church of the Netherlands, the Syrian Orthodox (Oriental) Church of Antioch, and the Russian Orthodox Church.

http://www.oldcatholic.com/ochistory.html

Basilians still laud Father Charles Coughlin - known to history as The Father of Hate.

We might mention here as well, the great work of a former Basilian, Father Charles E. Coughlin, in the area of social justice.

http://www.basilian.org/Publica/Opapers/2003August_num32.htm

There are many examples of anti-Communist activities of these churches, as there are of ties between some of them and various hate groups.

I wouldn't dismiss it entirely. Martin was on friendly terms with Long. The letter appears genuine (but as of yesterday, I wasn't able to upload it. I'll be glad to email it to someone who can upload it.) There is some corroboration in Ferrie's statement to the FBI, and in both Ferrie's and Banister's testimony at Ferrie's EAL hearing, where both also expressed surprise that Martin would have an HEW connection.

Of course the letter "appears" genuine. His collection of forged documents likewise "appeared" genuine. Like I said... something confirming it from the records of HEW would do the trick. You've got the fox corroborating the coyote.

AS I NOTED, THERE ARE NUMEROUS INSTANCES OF MARTIN HAVING CONTACT WITH LONG. AND HE SENT THIS PARTICULAR LETTER TO AN FAA INVESTIGATOR AS A LETTER OF INTRODUCTION. IF IT WAS PHONY, HE COULD GET IN A HEAP OF TROUBLE. AND IT DOES REFER TO CONTINUING WORK WITH HEW. BUTTRESSED BY THE FERRIE AND BANISTER STATEMENTS, MADE UNDER OATH. AND THERE WAS AN HEW INVESTIGATION GOING ON CONCURRENTLY.

MY INQUIRIES TO HEW HAVE NOT BEEN MET WITH GREAT SPEED.

I was just relating that the man who performed the autopsy did think they [the minor brain bleeds]were relevant.

How relevant could they be to his his death if they did not warrant a mention in the autopsy report? Why no mention of them at all until a 1993 interview with Lambert?

LAMBERT DOES QUOTE HIM AS SAYING IT WAS RELEVANT.

No. I think he saw it as a way to bolster his academic credentials, and it is ironic that he later claimed to have been involved in an investigation that was targeting mills like Phoenix.

Ironic's one word... I could think of more apt ones...

No, that [Lambert's interview with Dr Welsh]  is not my source [for information on the minor brain bleeds].

It is the source you've quoted in the past.

Things have changed since then. I have new medical information concerning Ferrie.

Confirmation from other doctors that Ferrie had those minor bleeds, or general interpretations of his medical and autopsy reports?

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT HIS MEDICAL CONDITION, COMPLAINTS, PRESCRIPTIONS, HOSPITALIZATIONS, ETC., AS WELL AS INTERPRETATIONS OF HIS MEDICAL HISTORY AND DEATH.

If the latter is the case, would Robert Artwohl be one the doctors you're going to rely upon for an opinion?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Stephen Roy]

Sorry, upload of the Martin-Long document failed again. I might try emailing it to John Simkin, for posting.

On this day in Ferrie history, February 18, 1967:

On the previous day, Rosemary James had published her NOSI article, making public that Garrison was investigating the Kennedy assassination. Dave Ferrie phoned Lou Ivon to complain bitterly. At 5:30, he called Pershing Gervais, who suggested that he contact the press. Ferrie then phoned Dave Snyder of the NOSI/NOTP and said he wanted to give him info about the probe. Snyder sat with Ferrie from 6-10:30pm. Just after Snyder left, Ferrie received a call from Sam DePino of channel 12 and spoke with him for about 20 minutes.

On this day, the NOTP headline was "DA Won't Confirm JFK Plot Probe On". The NOSI headlined "Definite JFK PLOT, DA Aide Is Quoted". In this atricle, Snyder brought Ferrie's name to full public attention for the first time and quoted his comments from the previous night.

Ferrie called Lou Ivon to see how the probe was going. Ivon and Andrew Sciambra went to Ferrie's aprtment and interviewed him. (Ferrie was complaining of not feeling well. He also suggested that he did not know Clay Bertrand or Clay Shaw.) Ferrie began formulating plans for a lawsuit against Garrison and Jack Martin.

Back at Tulane and Broad, Garrison's staff was questioning friends and acquaintences of Ferrie, including Mel Coffey and Dante Marochini.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

MORE FERRIE HISTORY:

FEBRUARY 19: GARRISON MAKES HIS FIRST PUBLIC COMMENT ON THE CASE, PREDICITNG SUCCESS. NODA INTERVIEWS JAMES R. LEWALLEN (WITH ATTORNEY GEORGE PIAZZA). FERRIE MISSES A FLIGHT INSTRUCTION APPOINTMENT WITH ALAN SHEAR. FERRIE PHONES DAVE SNYDER AND TELLS HIM THAT, WHILE HE HAD HAD SOME DOUBTS ABOUT THE WC SHOOTING SCENARIO, HE HAD JUST RESOLVED IT IN HIS OWN MIND: THAT THE AUTOPSY "SLAB" DISTORTED THE POSITIONING OF THE WOUNDS. HE ALSO TELLS SNYDER THAT HE PLANS TO CONSULT AN ATTORNEY ABOUT SUING MARTIN AND GARRISON. HE LATER CALLS LOU IVON, WHO SETS FERRIE UP AT THE FONTAINBLEU, BUT FERRIE DOES NOT STAY PUT.

FEBRUARY 20: FERRIE AT DOCTOR'S OFFICE. FERRIE VISITS THE FBI OFFICE, SPEAKS WITH REGIS KENNEDY WHO TELLS HIM THAT THIS IS ALL A JACK MARTIN THING, THAT KENNEDY HIMSELF SAW FERRIE IN FEDERAL COURT AT ABOUT THE TIME JFK WAS SHOT. FERRIE WALKS THE CUBAN SECTION OF NO AND VISITS CARLOS JOSE BRINGUIER. HE AGAIN PHONES SNYDER AND TELLS HIM HE IS AT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE PREPARING A SUIT. HE PHONES JIMMY JOHNSON (ACTING AS A NODA DOUBLE-AGENT) AND INVITES HIM OVER TO 3330. JOHNSON DECLINES.

AARON KOHN SPEAKS WITH FBI ABOUT A VISIT BY FERRIE. GORDON DWAYNE NOVEL CONTACTS FBI.

FEBRUARY 21: NOVEL IS INTRODUCED TO GARRISON. FERRIE TRIES TO CONTACT TOMMY COMPTON. FERRIE AGAIN VISITS BRINGUIER, AND ALSO ORESTES PENA. FERRIE GOES TO LIBRARY TO READ WARREN REPORT AND PICKS UP MEDICATION AT BROADMOOR. AT 4:30, HE RETURNS HOME TO FIND A NOTE FROM GEORGE LARDNER JR. JIMMY JOHNSON PHONES AND COMES OVER TO 3330, AND AGREES TO COME TOMORROW TO HELP FERRIE MOVE BOXES. FERRIE PHONES SNYDER. AT 11PM, NODA WATCHERS SEE LIGHTS GO OUT AND LEAVE FOR EVENING. BUT FERRIE PHONES LARDNER, WHO COMES OVER AND TALKS TO HIM UNTIL ABOUT 4AM.

[Dawn Meredith]

No, that [Lambert's interview with Dr Welsh]  is not my source [for information on the minor brain bleeds].

It is the source you've quoted in the past.

Lambert's source on Ferrie's condition is Dr. Ronald A. Welsh, whom she interviewed in 1993. Welsh told her that microscopic slides of Ferrie's brain tissue indicated that in addition to blood vessel perforating, there was "scar tissue indicating that Ferrie had had another bleed, a small one, previously . . . at least one or two of them at least two weeks before he died. This is a common occurence with Berry aneurysms," Welsh told her, "people have one or two before they blow out completely . . . His headaches were from the early bleeds" (Lambert, 302 fn.).

The above is from your archived newsgroup posts held on Mr Reitzes anti-Garrison website.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

___________________________________________

Patricia Lampert's trash Garrison book "False Witnesses" is of course going to be backed-up by equally- anti- Garrison Dave Reitzes.

An excellent review of this "false" book is in JimDiEugenio's Probe Magazine Vol 6 No. 4, entitled "False witness: Aptly Titled", article written by Jim D (" Destiny Betrayed") and another Garrison author Bill Davy ("Let Justice Be Done")

Just thought I'd add some balance in here. This article is well worth the read.

Dawn

[Stephen Roy]

No, that [Lambert's interview with Dr Welsh]  is not my source [for information on the minor brain bleeds].

It is the source you've quoted in the past.

Lambert's source on Ferrie's condition is Dr. Ronald A. Welsh, whom she interviewed in 1993. Welsh told her that microscopic slides of Ferrie's brain tissue indicated that in addition to blood vessel perforating, there was "scar tissue indicating that Ferrie had had another bleed, a small one, previously . . . at least one or two of them at least two weeks before he died. This is a common occurence with Berry aneurysms," Welsh told her, "people have one or two before they blow out completely . . . His headaches were from the early bleeds" (Lambert, 302 fn.).

The above is from your archived newsgroup posts held on Mr Reitzes anti-Garrison website.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

___________________________________________

Patricia Lampert's trash Garrison book "False Witnesses" is of course going to be backed-up by equally- anti- Garrison Dave Reitzes.

An excellent review of this "false" book is in JimDiEugenio's Probe Magazine Vol 6 No. 4, entitled "False witness: Aptly Titled", article written by Jim D (" Destiny Betrayed") and another Garrison author Bill Davy ("Let Justice Be Done")

Just thought I'd add some balance in here. This article is well worth the read.

Dawn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lambert's work was strongly anti-Garrison. But all of the citations for documents I own check out, and none of the people I've interviewed who also spoke with Lambert claim to be misquoted. (Joan Mellen's forthcoming Garrison biography is rumored to contain new material from Anne Dischler, who says Lambert misquoted her. I look forward to this book.

I walk a middle course. I recommend that interested persons read both anti-and pro-Garrison books, such as DiEugenio, Davy, Pease, Probe, etc. I think both are flawed by special pleading, leaving out significant material. I think Garrison sincerely thought he had solved the assassination, but I also think he made some serious errors.

As for Ferrie, he has been portrayed in a decidedly one-dimensional way for too long. I hope to prove what is true and disprove what is untrue.

This is not a black and white matter, heroes and villains. Truth has its claim to history.

[Stephen Roy]

This day in Ferrie history, February 22, 1967:

George Lardner Jr. interviewed Ferrie from about midnight to about 4am.

At 11:45am, Jimmy Johnson arrives at Ferrie's apartment and knocks. No answer. he knocks for an additional 3 minutes or so, but still no answer. He peeks in through the missing pane of glass and pushes the curtain outward. He sees Ferrie lying in bed. He calls to him repeatedly but Ferrie does is unresponsive. Worse, Ferrie's eyes are open. At about 11:50, Johnson runs downstairs to get the landlord, and the two return to break-in the lock on the back door. They quickly determine that Ferrie appears to be deceased in his bed.

Johnson first phones Lou Ivon of the NO District Attorney's office (a call slip still exists) but Ivon does not get it for several minutes. He next phones the NOPD, and the police arrive at 12:05pm. Ivon arrives at 12:10 and other NODA staff arrive shortly. Ten medicine bottle are found on the coffee table in the living room. A police officer finds an envelope taped under a dining table, marked "To be opened in the event of my death". It contains a "letter of farewell" to a friend and a will, dated July 1966. Sometime later, a longer "farewell letter" is found in a pile of papers in the hall.

Representatives of the coroner's office arrive at about 12:30, and Ferrie is pronounced dead at 1pm. His body is removed at about 2:30 and the autopsy begins at about 3pm. (The FBI was able to determine by about 6pm that the coroner's cause of death was a burst aneurysm, but that NODA was pressing for a finding of suicide.)

Garrison issues a statement calling Ferrie "one of history's most important individuals". Based on a note found in Ferrie's apartment, George Lardner is called in for a statement. At about the same time, NODA is taking a statement from Rancier Blaise Ehlinger and Gordon Novel.

At 8:54pm Lardner's story runs on the wire, substantially similar to the statement he gave earlier to NODA.

[John Simkin]

Stephen, what do you make of Judyth Baker's claim that she was involved with David Ferrie in developing a biological weapon against Fidel Castro. According to Baker, several labs were involved, including a tumor and tissue culture processing mini-lab, at an apartment owned by Ferrie.

[Lee Forman]

Hello - to any and all David Ferrie researchers. Is it at all possible to re-question any living contacts of Ferrie as to why they may have lied in regards to his whereabouts on 11/22? Does anyone have a photo of the Marcello court proceeding which would contain proof that Ferrie was there?

Doesn't anyone find it odd that someone so thick in the conspiracy planning would not be in Dallas at the time of the assassination? Sure - perhaps he would want to distance himself, and have alibis - who are those alibis?

- lee

[Jack White]

Lee...are you aware of the Ferrie "ice skating" story?

Jack

[Gary Buell]

I have the impression from the investigative materials that there was a fair amount of infighting within and between some of these groups.

I can't verify that, but it could be true... in much the same way that various socialist groups detested each other... so it may have been with these various sects that sprang from common sources.

THE SOUTHERN RESEARCH REPORTS DEATAL SOME INFIGHTING WITH THESE SPECIFIC GROUPS.

Any source on the orientation of these specific groups?

I would have thought you'd done some research on them of your own for your book?

AND YOU WOULD HAVE THOUGHT CORRECTLY. I HAVE A FAIR AMOUNT OF MATERIAL ON THESE SPECIFIC GROUPS, AND I'VE LOCATED AND SPOKEN TO A FEW PARTICIPANTS. IT ISN'T EASY, SO MANY YEARS LATER, AS DOCUMENTS ARE NOT AS EASY TO FIND AS IN NARA. BUT I'VE MADE SOME HEADWAY.

WHAT I WAS ASKING FOR WAS YOUR SOURCE(S) REGARDING THSES PARTICULAR GROUPS, AND THE RIGHT-WING ORIENTATION. IN THE CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN FERRIE AND OTHERS IN THESE GROUPS, I'VE SEEN NOTHING OF ANY POLITICAL NATURE, RIGHTIST OR OTHERWISE. ALL THEOLOGICAL. AND I'M TRYING NOT TO CONFUSE THEM WITH DIFFERENT GROUPS WITH SIMILAR SOUNDING NAMES.

FERRIE'S RELATIONSHIP WITH THESE SPECIFIC GROUPS IS COMPLEX. AT FIRST, HE SEEMED TO BE INVESTIGATING THEM; THEN HE SEEMED TO SHIFT TO A SINCERE INTEREST, POSSIBLY DUE TO HIS BURNING DESIRE TO PURSUE A CALLING. ONCE HE WAS WITH THE BASILIAN SECT, THEY SEEMED TO SPEND MANY MONTHS TRYING TO CONTACT HIM.

It's not exactly any big secret that the Order of Saint John is one and the same as The Knights of Malta. The Catholic Encyclopaedia gives a fairly detailed history up until the 1800s.

The Old Catholic Church itself is one source for its historical links to the Russian Orthodox Church.

We will examine the traditions of the Western and Eastern lineage herein. The Old Catholic Church of the United States bears its Apostolic lineage from the Ancient Catholic Church of the Netherlands, the Syrian Orthodox (Oriental) Church of Antioch, and the Russian Orthodox Church.

http://www.oldcatholic.com/ochistory.html

Basilians still laud Father Charles Coughlin - known to history as The Father of Hate.

We might mention here as well, the great work of a former Basilian, Father Charles E. Coughlin, in the area of social justice.

http://www.basilian.org/Publica/Opapers/2003August_num32.htm

There are many examples of anti-Communist activities of these churches, as there are of ties between some of them and various hate groups.

I wouldn't dismiss it entirely. Martin was on friendly terms with Long. The letter appears genuine (but as of yesterday, I wasn't able to upload it. I'll be glad to email it to someone who can upload it.) There is some corroboration in Ferrie's statement to the FBI, and in both Ferrie's and Banister's testimony at Ferrie's EAL hearing, where both also expressed surprise that Martin would have an HEW connection.

Of course the letter "appears" genuine. His collection of forged documents likewise "appeared" genuine. Like I said... something confirming it from the records of HEW would do the trick. You've got the fox corroborating the coyote.

AS I NOTED, THERE ARE NUMEROUS INSTANCES OF MARTIN HAVING CONTACT WITH LONG. AND HE SENT THIS PARTICULAR LETTER TO AN FAA INVESTIGATOR AS A LETTER OF INTRODUCTION. IF IT WAS PHONY, HE COULD GET IN A HEAP OF TROUBLE. AND IT DOES REFER TO CONTINUING WORK WITH HEW. BUTTRESSED BY THE FERRIE AND BANISTER STATEMENTS, MADE UNDER OATH. AND THERE WAS AN HEW INVESTIGATION GOING ON CONCURRENTLY.

MY INQUIRIES TO HEW HAVE NOT BEEN MET WITH GREAT SPEED.

I was just relating that the man who performed the autopsy did think they [the minor brain bleeds]were relevant.

How relevant could they be to his his death if they did not warrant a mention in the autopsy report? Why no mention of them at all until a 1993 interview with Lambert?

LAMBERT DOES QUOTE HIM AS SAYING IT WAS RELEVANT.

No. I think he saw it as a way to bolster his academic credentials, and it is ironic that he later claimed to have been involved in an investigation that was targeting mills like Phoenix.

Ironic's one word... I could think of more apt ones...

No, that [Lambert's interview with Dr Welsh]  is not my source [for information on the minor brain bleeds].

It is the source you've quoted in the past.

Things have changed since then. I have new medical information concerning Ferrie.

Confirmation from other doctors that Ferrie had those minor bleeds, or general interpretations of his medical and autopsy reports?

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT HIS MEDICAL CONDITION, COMPLAINTS, PRESCRIPTIONS, HOSPITALIZATIONS, ETC., AS WELL AS INTERPRETATIONS OF HIS MEDICAL HISTORY AND DEATH.

If the latter is the case, would Robert Artwohl be one the doctors you're going to rely upon for an opinion?

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I recently read a new book that has some interesting information on these Old Catholic Churchs and on Ferrie and associates. Sinister Forces by Peter Levenda.

[Lee Forman]

Lee...are you aware of the Ferrie "ice skating" story?

Jack

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Jack,

I am.

The question is the credibility of a certain source [you can guess]. He is adamant - won't recant, wants to undergo a lie detector test, wants to testify - says anyone that places Ferrie in New Orleans the morning of 11/22 was lying. All I want is a single proof, or the ability to contact any living alibi and ask the question myself personally if need be.

What I found very peculiar about all this was when we started going through the Dillard photo here on the Forum. Robin's enlarged Dillard crop, which sure seems to have someone or more than one someone, in the 7th floor, at the position of the storage room - it's just an amazing coicidence. There was no storage room on the 6th floor - but there was on the seventh.

When I awaken, in the storage room of the sixth floor of the Texas Book depository building in Dallas, it is broad daylight. They have obviously brought me in crated up, or rolled up, in something. Anyway, I get dumped out, and David Ferrie kicks me in the ribs, and turns to my Dad.

"There's the assassin," David Ferrie says.