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Three Tramps.


Guest Stephen Turner
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As I mentioned recently on another thread, my father is a close friend of Lieutenant General Victor "Brute" Krulak, USMC (Retired), who knew Col. Edward Lansdale quite well. My father, at my request, asked Gen. Krulak a few weeks ago whether or not the General had written the letter (see below) to Col. L. Fletcher Prouty regarding the positive ID-ing of the "suit" passing by the three "tramps" as being none other than Edward Lansdale. (I recommend that everyone read the letter; it was written in 1985 when Krulak was 72 or so.) A couple of days later my father told me that Krulak, now almost 94, "vaguely remembers" writing the letter to Prouty and that Gen. Krulak also told my father that "Prouty was a 'good guy' (sorry Ron Ecker) and that Lansdale was a 'bad guy.'

Here is a link to the letter that Krulak wrote to Prouty and the link to Wikipedia's biography of Krulak:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/USO/appD.html#39223

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_H._Krulak]

Thomas,

Will your father have the chance to show Krulak the Taylor photos and get his comments on whether or not the person could have been Taylor and not Lansdale?

A link to Krulak's letter was posted in another thread last year, and here's what I wrote at that time. ("That's my story and I'm sticking to it.")

Thanks for the link to the Krulak letter. I either hadn’t seen it before or had forgotten about it. There are a couple of strange things about its discussion of the photos. First, he says the two policemen carrying shotguns had "different" caps, "one a white chinstrap, one black." What is he talking about? The two cops carrying shotguns were Bass and Wise, both with regular caps with no chinstraps at all. He says "One has a Dallas police shoulder patch, one does not." In the only photo with a view of Wise’s patch, it is barely discernible in shadow, but IMO it’s there. In any case, I don’t think there is any question that Marvin Wise was a DPD cop, so why would he show up with no shoulder patch that day, everything else being normal including his cap?

Second, there is the Lansdale figure. Krulak says, "The haircut, the stoop, the twisted left hand, the large class ring. It’s Lansdale." IMO he is describing Maxwell Taylor, who had that haircut, that stoop, that large class ring (I don’t know about a "twisted left hand"). When did Lansdale ever have such a wavy haircut? I have seen such hair in no Lansdale photo.

Also consider that Prouty and Krulak knew both men, Taylor and Lansdale. How could they possibly fail to see the resemblance of the man in the photo to Taylor, and simply carry on about "It’s Lansdale"? The only thing I can think of is there was a limited hang-out going on here, in which Lansdale is identified to distract people from noticing the resemblance to Taylor. "It’s Lansdale!" Say it loudly enough and folks might assume that it’s true.

Ron

Edited by Ron Ecker
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As I mentioned recently on another thread, my father is a close friend of Lieutenant General Victor "Brute" Krulak, USMC (Retired), who knew Col. Edward Lansdale quite well. My father, at my request, asked Gen. Krulak a few weeks ago whether or not the General had written the letter (see below) to Col. L. Fletcher Prouty regarding the positive ID-ing of the "suit" passing by the three "tramps" as being none other than Edward Lansdale. (I recommend that everyone read the letter; it was written in 1985 when Krulak was 72 or so.) A couple of days later my father told me that Krulak, now almost 94, "vaguely remembers" writing the letter to Prouty and that Gen. Krulak also told my father that "Prouty was a 'good guy' (sorry Ron Ecker) and that Lansdale was a 'bad guy.'

Here is a link to the letter that Krulak wrote to Prouty and the link to Wikipedia's biography of Krulak:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/USO/appD.html#39223

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_H._Krulak]

Thomas,

Will your father have the chance to show Krulak the Taylor photos and get his comments on whether or not the person could have been Taylor and not Lansdale?

A link to Krulak's letter was posted in another thread last year, and here's what I wrote at that time. ("That's my story and I'm sticking to it.")

Thanks for the link to the Krulak letter. I either hadn’t seen it before or had forgotten about it. There are a couple of strange things about its discussion of the photos. First, he says the two policemen carrying shotguns had "different" caps, "one a white chinstrap, one black." What is he talking about? The two cops carrying shotguns were Bass and Wise, both with regular caps with no chinstraps at all. He says "One has a Dallas police shoulder patch, one does not." In the only photo with a view of Wise’s patch, it is barely discernible in shadow, but IMO it’s there. In any case, I don’t think there is any question that Marvin Wise was a DPD cop, so why would he show up with no shoulder patch that day, everything else being normal including his cap?

Second, there is the Lansdale figure. Krulak says, "The haircut, the stoop, the twisted left hand, the large class ring. It’s Lansdale." IMO he is describing Maxwell Taylor, who had that haircut, that stoop, that large class ring (I don’t know about a "twisted left hand"). When did Lansdale ever have such a wavy haircut? I have seen such hair in no Lansdale photo.

Also consider that Prouty and Krulak knew both men, Taylor and Lansdale. How could they possibly fail to see the resemblance of the man in the photo to Taylor, and simply carry on about "It’s Lansdale"? The only thing I can think of is there was a limited hang-out going on here, in which Lansdale is identified to distract people from noticing the resemblance to Taylor. "It’s Lansdale!" Say it loudly enough and folks might assume that it’s true.

Ron

____________________________________________

Ron,

I did print out the pictures of Gen. Taylor and Col. Lansdale which you posted on the Forum a couple of weeks ago, but since I haven't seen my father for a few weeks, I haven't had the opportunity to ask him to present the pictures to his buddy General Krulak and to ask the kind General whether or not [he he is willing to "fess up" (LOL) to the fact that] the "suit" walking past the "tramps" might really be General Maxwell Taylor.

But what if General Krulak, after looking at your pictures, tells my father that the "suit" is still, in his opinion, Lansdale? Will you continue to say that it's a just a "limited hang-out" on the part of Krulak/Prouty to divert attention away from Gen. Taylor?

Regardless, I will give the pictures to my father very soon and ask him to kindly "interrogate" 94-year-old General Krulak. No "water-boarding," however. LOL.

--Thomas

____________________________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves
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But what if General Krulak, after looking at your pictures, tells my father that the "suit" is still, in his opinion, Lansdale? Will you continue to say that it's a just a "limited hang-out" on the part of Krulak/Prouty to divert attention away from Gen. Taylor?

I would just like to hear what Krulak has to say on the question of the strong resemblance to Taylor, which he didn't seem to see back when he was corresponding with Prouty (who didn't seem to see it either).

The "limited hang-out" idea is just a wild guess on my part, and probably wrong. I don't know what the answer is. I simply find the fixation of Prouty and Krulak on Lansdale, to the complete exclusion of the similar or even stronger resemblance to Taylor, inexplicable, since Prouty and Krulak knew both men (only one of whom had wavy hair).

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But what if General Krulak, after looking at your pictures, tells my father that the "suit" is still, in his opinion, Lansdale? Will you continue to say that it's a just a "limited hang-out" on the part of Krulak/Prouty to divert attention away from Gen. Taylor?

I would just like to hear what Krulak has to say on the question of the strong resemblance to Taylor, which he didn't seem to see back when he was corresponding with Prouty (who didn't seem to see it either).

The "limited hang-out" idea is just a wild guess on my part, and probably wrong. I don't know what the answer is. I simply find the fixation of Prouty and Krulak on Lansdale, to the complete exclusion of the similar or even stronger resemblance to Taylor, inexplicable, since Prouty and Krulak knew both men (only one of whom had wavy hair).

______________________________

Ron,

So, it could all boil down to "the twisted left hand," couldn't it? It seems to me that a twisted left hand is much more unusual and hard to fake/hide than perceived "wavy hair," and therefore a much stronger way of identifying someone, especially from the back. (By the way, who's to say that Lansdale didn't put some "goop" in his hair that morning so he could make his hair look "wavy?")

Does anyone out there know whether or not General Taylor had a twisted left hand?

As I said, I will give the pictures to my father to show to General Krulak... I cannot promise, however, that my 83-year-old father will even remember or be willing to "interrogate" General Krulak, but we shall see...

--Thomas

______________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Does anyone out there know whether or not General Taylor had a twisted left hand?

It's a good question. To start with, the hand in the tramps photo doesn't necessarily look "twisted," when you consider the fact that the man was walking between the line of tramps and the wall and may have had to squeeze his arm in to walk past them. Nonetheless, the photo apparently reminded Krulak and Prouty of a twisted hand that Lansdale presumably had, so the question indeed is did Taylor have one too.

Interestingly, the photos I have previously posted of Taylor do indicate something funny about his left hand. (I hope I can post these again, as strange things have happened before when I've tried to link to more than one photo.) In this one, note how Taylor is holding his left hand:

taylor.jpg

In this photo, note how Taylor's left hand looks different (as if the fingers are missing) as opposed to the left hands of the other officers:

taylor2.jpg

And in this photo, does Taylor's left hand look normal? Put your hand to your chin the way he has done, and then look in the mirror. Do your fingers look all out of whack the way his do?

taylorring.jpg

Edited by Ron Ecker
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Does anyone out there know whether or not General Taylor had a twisted left hand?

It's a good question. [...] the photo apparently reminded Krulak and Prouty of a twisted hand that Lansdale presumably had [...]

_____________________________

Apparently? Presumably?

Good observations on Taylor's left hand, Ron. Keep up the good work...

--Thomas :D

P.S. Just an idea: Is there a biography or autobiography of Taylor in which any mention is made of a "twisted" or "injured" or "wounded" left hand/arm?

_____________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves
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  • 1 year later...

Does anyone out there know whether or not General Taylor had a twisted left hand?

It's a good question. [...] the photo apparently reminded Krulak and Prouty of a twisted hand that Lansdale presumably had [...]

_____________________________

Apparently? Presumably?

Good observations on Taylor's left hand, Ron. Keep up the good work...

--Thomas :D

P.S. Just an idea: Is there a biography or autobiography of Taylor in which any mention is made of a "twisted" or "injured" or "wounded" left hand/arm?

_____________________________

I guess not.

--Thomas

_____________________________

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  • 9 years later...

Michael C

Lois Gibson identified the three tramps as Harrelson, Rogers and Holt. She has a good track record.

Harrelson was a hitman for hire. I think Harrelson was the shooter on the grassy knoll who shot Kennedy in the head. Harrelson was charged with the murder of a federal judge in Texas who was shot with an exploding bullet (Sheehan). Similar to the bullet that blew out the back of Kennedy´s head.

Rogers was a navy vet who worked for naval intelligence. He was a cold blooded killer.

Holt worked for Meyer Lansky and the syndicate.

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On 4/2/2017 at 8:42 PM, George Sawtelle said:

Michael C

Lois Gibson identified the three tramps as Harrelson, Rogers and Holt. She has a good track record.

Harrelson was a hitman for hire. I think Harrelson was the shooter on the grassy knoll who shot Kennedy in the head. Harrelson was charged with the murder of a federal judge in Texas who was shot with an exploding bullet (Sheehan). Similar to the bullet that blew out the back of Kennedy´s head.

Rogers was a navy vet who worked for naval intelligence. He was a cold blooded killer.

Holt worked for Meyer Lansky and the syndicate.

Thanks George, Harrelson and Rogers have always been been solid ID's for me. The old guy looks just like Hunt to me except for his age. I was unaware or Holt mob connection. I find it hard to believe that Rogers was the one to actually dissected his parents, wrapped them up, and put them in the fridge. 

Cheers,

Michael

Edited by Michael Clark
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11 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Thanks George, Holt and Rogers have always been been solid ID's for me. The old guy looks just like Hunt to me except for his age. I was unaware or Roger's mob connection. I find it hard to believe that he was the to actually dissected his parents, wrapped them up, and put them in the fridge. 

Cheers,

Michael

Rogers had mob-connections?

News to me.

http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKrogersC.htm

--  Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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5 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

Michael C

Harrelson and Rogers are the kind of guys you hire to kill a president. Cold, unnerving under fire. Mafia hitmen also. They are not afraid to die and adhere to the oath of omerta. 

I can't see Americans being used unless they could be painted as Communists. Known Mafia hired hands just wouldn't work, unless the plotters were interested in a wholesale take-down of organized crime.

Cheers,

Michael

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