Harry Dean: Memoirs

[Paul Trejo]

Paul, I'm rushed for time but I'll be back later...

Quickly however, in no way am I stating Ruby ran the Dallas operation - I don't seem to be getting that across to you. I'm stating that he was a minor asset used to support and enable tactical operations in Dallas due to his connections and knowledge of the city. In regard to comparing Walker to Robertson, there simply is no comparison if you know anything about Robertson - plus the tactical team assembled to kill Castro was closely bonded to Robrertson as were a number of exiles. They trusted him, they accepted him; in no way would that translate to taking operational orders from an unknown individual with no field operational experience with them.

I'll provide a bit fuller response later - but to clarify, any points I make are in support of the scenario I've offered or an effort to explain it. In no way would I attempt to argue off of a Walker scenario and honestly I don't envision that anyone could ever offer you sufficient "proof" to shift you off of it. I'm certainly not attempting to do so.

Larry, thanks for your clarification about Jack Ruby.

I think I've clarified that I'm not comparing Walker with Rip Robertson. My only question is that if Robertson wanted Dallas intelligence -- and if he had a choice between mobster Jack Ruby and former General Edwin Walker, who would he choose?

I can be convinced that Walker wasn't involved -- if somebody shows conclusively that people unconnected with Walker fully comprised the ground-crew, then I'll fold my hand. (That means, of course, that the DRE cannot be involved -- or Loran Hall, or Gerry Patrick Hemming.)

Yet Walker was involved in New Orleans, in Miami, and in the company of rightist fanatics like Joseph Milteer in Georgia. One cannot just dismiss the right-wing and make the JFK murder into an entirely CIA-Mafia plot, because the right-wing insisted on a front-row seat (e.g. Milteer was in Dealey Plaza that day).

I realize you're not trying to convince me of the innocence of Edwin Walker, Larry. I appreciate your feedback. I look forward to your further comments.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 8, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Larry Hancock]

Alright, I'm back now so to continue a bit:

I'm certainly not painting the entire DPD with one brush. I believe most DPD officers had no idea what was going on that day. Yet there were some DPD officers -- and I won't call them "dirty," I'll call them ultra-rightist -- who believed it was patriotic to oppose JFK in any way possible. They wouldn't be bribed or blackmailed by Jack Ruby to participate -- they'd be motivated by their own politics.

PAUL, IF YOU CAN NAME THEM AND CONNECT THEM IN SOME SOLID FASHION TO THE TACTICAL TEAM I'VE NAMED THEN CERTAINLY I COULD APPRECIATE THEM BEING DRIVEN BY POLITICS. BUT YOU WOULD NEED TO DEMONSTRATE THE CONNECTION. IN CONTRAST IT IS POSSIBLE TO AT LEAST PRESENT LEADS AND SOURCES WHO TIE PEOPLE LIKE ROSCOE WHITE AND TIPPETT TO JACK RUBY AND IN TIPPETT'S CASE ALSO TO THE CUBAN EXILE COMMUNITY VIA THE PART TIME JOB HE HELD AT A SPANISH LANGUAGE THEATRE THAT WAS FREQUENTED BY CUBAN EXILES. AND IT IS VERY POSSIBLE, AND I DO IT IN SWHT, TO CONNECT RUBY TO CUBA, CUBAN EXILES AND SPECIFICALLY TO HAVANA CASINO FIGURES ASSOCIATED WITH JOHN ROSELLI DURING HIS TIME IN HAVANA...FOR THAT MATTER THE SAME THING CAN BE DONE FOR JOHN MARTINO. MARTINO STATED THAT HE PLAYED A COURIER ROLE TO DALLAS AND THE PEOPLE THAT WOULD HAVE ACCEPTED HIM IN SUCH A ROLE INCLUDED TRUSTED CUBAN EXILES AND FOR THAT MATTER JACK RUBY.

And since you raised the history of political assassination, I'll also raise the case of the attempted assassination of De Gaulle in 1962, because extreme right-wing policemen were also involved in that attempt, according to De Gaulle himself.

I WAS SPEAKING OF POLITICAL ASSASSINATION AS IT ORIGINATED INSIDE THE CIA AND THE METHODS AND PRACTICES OF ITS OFFICERS, IN THIS INSTANCE SPECIFICALLY TO DAVID MORALES WHO BOTH CONDUCTED TRAINING IN SUCH ACTIVITIES AND WAS ASSOCIATED WITH THE CASTRO ASSASSINATION PROJECT BOTH BEFORE AND AFTER HARVEY BECAME INVOLVED WITH IT.

(3) While others outside the DPD could rent that parking space behind the Grassy Knoll, it tended to be reserved for DPD officers, Sheriff Deputies, and other local government officials.

I'm aware that no DPD officers were assigned to that area during the motorcade -- yet that says nothing about off-duty policemen. Also, there was little to prevent policemen from wearing their uniforms before or after a shift -- i.e. while they were off-duty. Furthermore, if an off-duty policeman was doing something illegal, what better cover could he hope for than to wear his uniform?

TO THAT I WOULD AGREE, INDEED IN SWHT I SPECIFICALLY POINT OUT ONE INDIVIDUAL IN A DPD UNIFORM WHO WAS TURNING AWAY THE EARLIEST OFFICERS UP THERE AND WAS INDEED IDENTIFIED AS A DPD OFFICER.....BUT WE NOW KNOW THAT IN CONTRAST TO WHAT HE SAID THEN HE WAS NOT ASSIGNED THERE. UNFORTUNATELY ONCE THE OFFICER REALIZED WHAT HE WAS SAYING HE REFUSED TO COMMENT FURTHER AND NAME THE ACTUAL OFFICER.

I think I've clarified that I'm not comparing Walker with Rip Robertson. My only question is that if Robertson wanted Dallas intelligence -- and if he had a choice between mobster Jack Ruby and former General Edwin Walker, who would he choose?

ROBERTSON HIMSELF WOULD NOT HAVE CHOSEN, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN DIRECTED TO RUBY VIA ROSELLI. HOWEVER IF HE HAD TO GO IN AND PICK SOMEONE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WITH KNOWN CONNECTIONS TO DPD AND LAW ENFORCEMENT TYPES AND RUBY WOULD STILL HAVE FIT THE BILL. ROBERTSON DID NOT NEED ANY COVERT ACTION PLANNING ASSISTANCE FROM A FORMER GENERAL, WHAT HE NEEDED WAS STREET LEVEL INFO.

I can be convinced that Walker wasn't involved -- if somebody shows conclusively that people unconnected with Walker fully comprised the ground-crew, then I'll fold my hand. (That means, of course, that the DRE cannot be involved -- or Loran Hall, or Gerry Patrick Hemming.)

AS I'VE SAID BEFORE, I DO BELIEVE INDIVIDUALS ASSOCIATED WITH HEMMING WERE INVOLVED IN A SUPPORT ROLE, ROY HARGRAVES FOR ONE. HOWEVER AT THAT POINT IN TIME HARGRAVES WAS RUNNING INDEPENDENT OPERATIONS WITH CUBAN EXILES HE TRUSTED, NOR FOR HEMMING. I CERTAINLY BELIEVE THAT HEMMING COULD HAVE HEARD SOMETHING OF THE PLOT, MY RESEARCH TELLS ME NOBODY REALLY TRUSTED HALL, CERTAINLY NOT HEMMING. AS TO THE DRE BEING INVOLVED, OTHER THAN BEING AN INITIAL SOURCE OF INFO ON OSWALD I DON'T SEE THE GROUP PER SE INVOLVED AT ALL...ON THE OTHER HAND CERTAIN POTENTIAL EXILE PARTICIPANTS BELONGED JOINTLY TO DRE AND ALPHA 66. HOWEVER IF THEY WERE RECRUITED IT WAS BECAUSE OF THEIR PERSONAL ABILITIES, NOT THEIR ORGANIZATION.

Yet Walker was involved in New Orleans, in Miami, and in the company of rightist fanatics like Joseph Milteer in Georgia. One cannot set dismiss the right-wing and make the JFK murder into an entirely CIA-Mafia plot, because the right-wing insisted on a front-row seat (e.g. Milteer was in Dealey Plaza that day).

AGAIN AS I'VE MENTIONED EARLIER, THE NSRP AND CERTAIN OF ITS SENIOR OFFICERS, INCLUDING GALE AND SWIFT IN LA WERE MOST DEFINITELY MAKING PLANS TO ATTACK JFK AND OTHERS. MILTEER WAS AWARE OF THAT AND IF HE WAS IN DALLAS HE MAY VERY WELL HAVE BEEN SCOUTING FOR THEIR PLANNED ATTACK. I DON'T DISMISS THE RIGHT WING AS A THREAT TO JFK. ACCEPTING THAT ANY OF THOSE FOLKS WOULD PASS THE ACID TEST OF BEING TRUSTED BY THE TIGHTLY BONDED AND EXPERIENCED GROUP THAT I DO BELIEVE CONDUCTED THE ATTACK IS ANOTHER STORY ENTIRELY. THERE WERE SOME INTENSE PERSONAL BONDS THERE, SOME OF THEM GOING BACK TO INDIVIDUALS WHO HAD BEEN JOINTLY UNDER FIRE AT THE BOP AS WELL AS IMPRISONED TOGETHER AFTERWARDS.

I realize you're not trying to convince me of the innocence of Edwin Walker, Larry. I appreciate your feedback. I look forward to your further comments.

[Paul Trejo]

Alright, I'm back now so to continue a bit:

...IN SWHT I SPECIFICALLY POINT OUT ONE INDIVIDUAL IN A DPD UNIFORM WHO WAS TURNING AWAY THE EARLIEST OFFICERS UP THERE AND WAS INDEED IDENTIFIED AS A DPD OFFICER...BUT WE NOW KNOW THAT IN CONTRAST TO WHAT HE SAID THEN HE WAS NOT ASSIGNED THERE. UNFORTUNATELY ONCE THE OFFICER REALIZED WHAT HE WAS SAYING HE REFUSED TO COMMENT FURTHER AND NAME THE ACTUAL OFFICER...

...RIP ROBERTSON HIMSELF WOULD NOT HAVE CHOSEN, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN DIRECTED TO RUBY VIA ROSELLI. HOWEVER IF HE HAD TO GO IN AND PICK SOMEONE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WITH KNOWN CONNECTIONS TO DPD AND LAW ENFORCEMENT TYPES AND RUBY WOULD STILL HAVE FIT THE BILL. ROBERTSON DID NOT NEED ANY COVERT ACTION PLANNING ASSISTANCE FROM A FORMER GENERAL, WHAT HE NEEDED WAS STREET LEVEL INFO...

Larry, I detect that the door is still not slammed shut for my Edwin Walker theory.

First, you acknowledge the direct participation of at least one DPD officer -- and one other DPD officer who covered for him (e.g. refused to disclose his name).

Secondly, you continue to suggest that Jack Ruby fully fit the bill for a street-level asset who could fill in all the needed information of a "Dallas Intelligence Network".

We have evidence, for example, that Ruby probably drove some of the shooters to the murder site that morning. We know that he had loose connections with DPD officers through his striptease club. This is indeed a lower level -- yet it is too low. It is not conducive, IMHO, to the sort of "Dallas Intelligence Network" that Rip Robertson would find indispensible.

Rather, a meticulous planner like Rip Robertson would want somebody who knew the Dallas terrain so well that he could identify an ideal ambush environment, right?

Look again at Dealey Plaza. As former CIA agent Gary Shaw noted, it is a "dream" of an ambush environment. One has to make narrow turns, thus slowing down the target; also there is a dip, a bowl shaped target-zone; also it's surrounded by tall buildings; also it has the benefit of a concealed area behind the picket fence of the Grassy Knoll. It is a "dream" site for triangulation crossfire.

Who would be better qualified to identify this ideal ambush environment -- the owner of a striptease club, or a former US General with special operations training?

My point is that to stop with Jack Ruby as the epitome of the "Dallas Inteligence Network" seems to me to be abstract. It does not offer enough details to explain the uncounted nuances of activities and planning that had to go into -- let's face it -- the intelligence behind the murder of JFK.

It's easier for me to place Edwin Walker at the head of a "Dallas Intelligence Network," than to place the street-level, mobster contributions of Jack Ruby in that role.

It is relevant, IMHO, that when questioned by Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren in 1964, Jack Ruby himself said, "There is an organization here, Chief Justice Warren, if it takes my life at this moment to say it, there is a John Birch Society right now in activity, and Edwin Walker is one of the top men in this organization."

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited April 2, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

[...]

Paul Trejo wrote:

4.3) [...] The fact that DPD Chief Jesse Curry was actually driving the lead car which led the JFK motorcade down Elm Street, and immediately named the TSBD alone as the shooting site, makes him into a major suspect, IMHO.

Uhhh, that's not true, Paul.

Where in the world did you come up with that ?

Police tapes from that day show that Chief Curry, right after radioing in "Approaching Triple Underpass", immediately said, "Go to the hospital - Parkland Hospital. Have them stand by." And then, Paul, the very next thing he said was, "Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see what happened up there."

He doesn't say anything about the TSBD, Paul...

A few seconds later Sheriff Decker says, "Have my office move all available men out of my office into the railway yard to try to determine what happened in there and to hold everything secure until Homicide and other investigators should get there."

Now, regarding who did say anything about the TSBD over the police radio:

1) At 12:35 Patrolman C. A. Haygood radioed in, "I just talked to a guy up here who was standing close to it and the best he could tell it came from the Texas School Book Depository Building here with that Hertz renting sign on top."

Chief Curry still hasn't said anything about the TSBD....

2) Then at 12:36 Sergeant D. V. Harkness radioed, "I have a witness that says that it came from the fifth floor of the Texas Book Depository Store."

Chief Curry still hasn't said anything about the TSBD....

3) At 12:37 Patrolman L.L. Hill radioed, "Get some men up here to cover this school depository building. It's believed the shot came from, as you see it on Elm Street, it would be upper right hand corner, second window from the end." (Apparently Hill was with James Tague and possibly Bill Newman when he radioed in because he said, "I have one guy that was possibly hit by a richochet from the bullet off the concrete and another one saw the President slump.")

4) Also at 12:37 Patrolman E.D. Brewer, apparently with Patrolman L.L. Hill, radioed that he was about "three quarters of a block from" the TSBD and also said, "We have a man here who says he saw him pull the weapon back through the window off of the second floor from the southeast corner of that depository building." The dispatcher asked him if the TSBD was "covered off" yet and when told that it wasn't, told Brewer (and Hill?) to "pull on down there."

5) Also at 12:37 Assistant Chief of Police Charles Batchelor pipes in with this disjointed radio communication, "Can you give us any information as to what happened for these people out here, evidently they had - seriousness of it - the President involved - 1 is at Parkland, along with Dallas 1. We have word it is unknown - Texas Depository Store, corner of Elm and Field - officers are now surrounding and searching the building. (Garbled)"

But Chief Curry still hasn't said a word about the TSBD....

6) At 12:42 Police Inspector J.H. Sawyer gets his two cents in, "We need some more men down at the Texas School Book Depository. We should have some on Main if we could get someone to pick up and bring them down here."

At 12:44 Inspector Sawyer reports over the radio, "The type of weapon looked like a 30-30 rifle or some type of Winchester" and, when asked to describe the clothing the shooter was wearing, relays this problematic description (from a mysterious, still-unknown "witness"): "About 30, 5'10", 165 pounds."

7) At which point (12:45) the dispatcher broadcasts this infamous statement, "Attention all squads, the suspect in the shooting at Elm and Houston is supposed to be an unknown white male, approximately 30, 165 pounds, slender build, armed with what is thought to be a 30-30 rifle, - repeat, unknown white male, approximately 30, 165 pounds, slender build. No further description at this time or information, 12:45 p.m."

Captain C.E. Talbert then asks Sawyer, through the dispatcher, if the suspect was still in the building, and Sawyer replies, "On this building, it's unknown whether he is still in the building or not known if he was there in the first place."

8) Interestingly, Sergeant G.D. Henslee then pipes up and says, "Well, all the information we have received, 9 [inspector Sawyer], indicates that it did come from about the 5th or 4th floor of that building [the TSBD].

And, still, Chief Curry hasn't said a word about the TSBD, Paul......

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/

--Tommy

P.S. As far as Chief Curry's possible complicity in the plot against JFK, I would say that his actions are the least suspicious of all of the Dallas upper-level police officers.

Tommy, this was a good question, so I checked my source, Joachim Joesten. Usually he uses solid documentation.

Joesten's source for his claim is the New York Times. At his 23 November 1963 press conference, Chief Curry gave the press the following information:

“Moments after the fatal shot was fired at JFK at 12:30PM yesterday, Chief Curry said, he radioed instructions that the TSBD building be surrounded and searched...The chief was riding in a car 40 feet ahead of the limousine carrying Mr. and Mrs. Kennedy...Chief Curry said he could tell from the sound of the three shots that they had come from the book company’s building...” (New York Times, Nov. 24)

So, it seems my source remains fairly sturdy.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 2, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Larry Hancock]

COMMENTS BELOW,

Larry, I detect that the door is still not slammed shut for my Edwin Walker theory.

PAUL, IF YOU COME UP WITH ACTUAL NEW DATA ON INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED IN THE DALLAS ATTACK I'LL BE HAPPY TO LOOK AT IT. I WOULD SUGGEST YOU PUT

IT IN A NEW THREAD. THIS THREAD IS FAR TOO LONG, TOO BROAD AND I WILL NOT BE CHECKING IT ANY FURTHER. AS TO THE WALKER THEORY, I DON'T FIND IT

VIABLE NOW NOR DID I AFTER EXAMINING THE RIGHT WING CONNECTIONS FOR SOME SIX OR SEVEN YEARS WHEN I FIRST STARTED LOOKING INTO THIS LONG, LONG AGO.

First, you acknowledge the direct participation of at least one DPD officer -- and one other DPD officer who covered for him (e.g. refused to disclose his name).

Secondly, you continue to suggest that Jack Ruby fully fit the bill for a street-level asset who could fill in all the needed information of a "Dallas Intelligence Network".

We have evidence, for example, that Ruby probably drove some of the shooters to the murder site that morning. We know that he had loose connections with DPD officers through his striptease club. This is indeed a lower level -- yet it is too low. It is not conducive, IMHO, to the sort of "Dallas Intelligence Network" that Rip Robertson would find indispensible.

I'M AFRAID YOU REALLY NEED TO DO MORE HOMEWORK ON COVERT ACTION, SOMEONE LIKE WALKER WOULD BE TOTALLY UNNECESSARY FOR EXPERIENCED PARAMILITARY FOLKS PLUS

HE WOULD HAVE HAD NO OPERATIONAL CREDIBILITY OR TRUSTED CONNECTIONS. ANY PARAMILITARY ACTION TEAM WOULD HAVE SELECTED THEIR OWN AMBUSH POINTS AND THIS TEAM HAD BEEN

WORKING TOGETHER FOR SOME TIME. PICKING OUT THE PLAZA WAS CERTAINLY NOT A CHALLENGE, ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW IS THE GENERAL ROUTE AND FOR THAT MATTER

EVERY POLITICAL MOTORCADE IN DALLAS CAME DOWN MAIN STREET. I'M DON'T SEEM TO BE ABLE TO GET ACROSS THESE POINTS BUT I'VE SAID THEM ENOUGH, NO NEED TO REPEAT THEM

FURTHER.

I REALLY SEE NO BENEFIT IN CONTINUING THIS FURTHER, IF YOU OR ANYONE ELSE HAS QUESTIONS, EMAIL ME. IF YOU HAVE NEW DATA START A NEW THREAD. LARRY

[Ernie Lazar]

Update re: Harry and FBI

1. I have now determined that all of the FBI Special Agents who Harry has stated that he had contacts with (in Chicago) are deceased.

2. In addition, all of the Los Angeles Agents who had multiple contacts with Harry and who filled out FD-71 forms to summarize their contacts with Harry (such as William McCauley, Ferd J. Rapp, Richard L. Cromwell) are also deceased.

3. However, I was able to locate one Special Agent who worked in Chicago from 1958 to 1966 -- and he worked with Agent Mike Simon. His name is Frank C. (he does not want his full name used).

4. Chicago Agent Mike Simon was assigned to Frank's Chicago squad. That squad worked two categories of cases, i.e. ITSP (Interstate Transportation of Stolen Property) and ITSMV (Interstate Transportation of Stolen Motor Vehicles).

5. Consequently, this is yet another bit of factual evidence which should be considered when evaluating Harry's claims. It does not seem likely that Simon would have been assigned to work on Cuban-related matters nor be assigned to work with an informant or confidential source pertaining to an internal security matter.

[Paul Trejo]

COMMENTS BELOW,

PAUL, IF YOU COME UP WITH ACTUAL NEW DATA ON INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED IN THE DALLAS ATTACK I'LL BE HAPPY TO LOOK AT IT. I WOULD SUGGEST YOU PUT IT IN A NEW THREAD. THIS THREAD IS FAR TOO LONG, TOO BROAD AND I WILL NOT BE CHECKING IT ANY FURTHER. AS TO THE WALKER THEORY, I DON'T FIND IT VIABLE NOW NOR DID I AFTER EXAMINING THE RIGHT WING CONNECTIONS FOR SOME SIX OR SEVEN YEARS WHEN I FIRST STARTED LOOKING INTO THIS LONG, LONG AGO.

I'M AFRAID YOU REALLY NEED TO DO MORE HOMEWORK ON COVERT ACTION, SOMEONE LIKE WALKER WOULD BE TOTALLY UNNECESSARY FOR EXPERIENCED PARAMILITARY FOLKS PLUS HE WOULD HAVE HAD NO OPERATIONAL CREDIBILITY OR TRUSTED CONNECTIONS. ANY PARAMILITARY ACTION TEAM WOULD HAVE SELECTED THEIR OWN AMBUSH POINTS AND THIS TEAM HAD BEEN WORKING TOGETHER FOR SOME TIME. PICKING OUT THE PLAZA WAS CERTAINLY NOT A CHALLENGE, ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW IS THE GENERAL ROUTE AND FOR THAT MATTER EVERY POLITICAL MOTORCADE IN DALLAS CAME DOWN MAIN STREET. I'M DON'T SEEM TO BE ABLE TO GET ACROSS THESE POINTS BUT I'VE SAID THEM ENOUGH, NO NEED TO REPEAT THEM FURTHER.

I REALLY SEE NO BENEFIT IN CONTINUING THIS FURTHER, IF YOU OR ANYONE ELSE HAS QUESTIONS, EMAIL ME. IF YOU HAVE NEW DATA START A NEW THREAD. LARRY

Well, Larry, I'm sorry to see you leave this thread, because I think that there are points you haven't addressed yet.

You ask me to come up with new data on individuals involved in the Dallas attack on JFK, and I've provided never-before-seen documents from Edwin Walker's personal papers.

You suggest I put it in a new thread, yet in past years I've engaged in several threads -- and the reason I stay with the Harry Dean Memoirs thread is that it ties all the other threads together. Walker, Hall, Hemming, the far right-wing, the JBS, the DPD, Lee Harvey Oswald in NOLA, the role of George DeMohrenschildt, Guy Bannister, Ed Butler, Carlos Bringuier the Cuban Exiles, and so on.

You say you don't find the Walker theory viable, and yet you drew your conclusions about Edwin Walker six years ago, before Walker's personal papers were publicized.

You say Walker would be "totally unnecessary" and that he had "no operational credibility or trusted connections" for a "Dallas Intelligence Network," and yet you postulate Jack Ruby in that role! Did Jack Ruby have "operational credibility"?

It still seems to me -- after reading SWHT/2010 -- that you deal with the Dallas ground-crew in a cursory manner -- you stick Jack Ruby in there as a place holder, and he somehow stands for all the "operational credibility" or "trusted connections" in Dallas that your theory needs.

IMHO, John Martino, who is your shibboleth (just as Harry Dean is my shibboleth), had less visibility into the Dallas ground-crew than any other factor. I agree that you have strong information up to Dallas -- but that is the point where I believe your theory falls short -- that is, you rely too much on Jack Ruby to stand in for the Dallas ground-crew. It isn't enough.

Also, you say that "picking out the Plaza was certainly not a challenge." In hind-sight that may seem correct, but this is far from a given.

You say, "all you need to know is the general route." Yet in fact the turn on Houston and Elm was not part of the original motorcade route! It was an afterthought. The lead car driver in the motorcade (who was Chief Curry himself, as I recall) is suspicious, especially if he had anything to do with the last-minute changes to turn right on Houston and take that hairpin left turn on Elm street.

John Martino is indeed a great find and a great source of data. Most of the pieces fit. Yet without Edwin Walker and his large Dallas-based contingent of The Friends of Walker, it still seems to me that John Martino's information still remains incomplete.

For example, the two Cubans who tracked Oswald all the way to Mexico just drop out of the picture at that point! I propose that John Martino fails to illuminate the "Dallas Intelligence Network."

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited April 4, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

The memoirs of Harry Dean are part and parcel of the larger legacy of JFK research, the Silvia Odio story.

This is because Harry Dean has reason to suspect that "Leopoldo" and "Angelo" were really Loran Hall and Larry Howard.

"Leopoldo" and "Angelo" were two supposedly Cuban Exiles that appeared on Silvia Odio's doorstep with Lee Harvey Oswald during the final week of September 1963, in the context of killing JFK because of the Bay of Pigs.

Sylvia Meagher, a legacy researcher, in 1965 called this incident, "the proof of the plot." Gaeton Fonzi, active in the Warren Commission, the Church Committee and the HSCA, agreed with Sylvia Meagher.

For Fonzi, aside from the holes in the single-bullet theory, the other substantiation of a JFK conspiracy came from validating Sylvia Odio's report that Oswald, or someone who resembled him (it mattered little which) appeared at her door in Dallas with two associates, one of whom would link Oswald to the notion of a JFK murder.

Whether it was really Oswald or not, said Fonzi, "that was a deliberate act of connecting Oswald to the assassination before the assassination."

Beyond all the other conspiracy evidence (the acoustics, the autopsy, the bullet trajectory, and Oswald's associations), says Fonzi, "the Odio incident absolutely cries conspiracy." Gaeton Fonzi would promptly declare the murder of JFK to be a conspiracy based soley on Sylvia Odio's consistently credible testimony. Fonzi also claims that his investigation proved every aspect of her testimony to be true.

However, this still left researchers scratching their heads about the actual identity of "Leopoldo" and "Angelo".

This is where the memoirs of Harry Dean become relevant again. Let's look at some of the remarkable coincidences that Harry Dean has raised from the very start. Harry Dean claims that:

1. In early September, 1963, Loran Hall and Larry Howard received instructions from Guy Gabaldon (an active speaker for the Southern California JBS) to escort Lee Harvey Oswald to Mexico City during the final week of September, 1963;

2. Loran Hall, the leader, was also an active speaker for the JBS from coast to coast, raising funds and supplies for paramilitary camps from New Orleans to Miami;

3. Loran Hall was something of an amoral character, who lived for revenge over Fidel Castro and would subordinate anything and anyone to that cause;

4. Larry Howard was something of a quiet follower; patriotic, brave and paramilitary, but not a leader.

5. Loran Hall was a Cuban-American, born in Newton Kansas, and his war name was "Lorenzo Pascillo";

6. Larry Howard was a Mexican-American, born in El Monte California, and his war name was "Alonzo Escruido";

7. Loran Hall and Larry Howard idolized Guy Gabaldon, who was a Mexican-American, born in East Los Angeles, and a famous war-hero. (The 1960 movie, Hell to Eternity, is Gabaldon's life story).

8. Guy Gabaldon was an extreme right-winger who wrote a book entitled, America Betrayed, which largely followed the JBS propaganda claiming that post-WW2 US Presidents, including Eisenhower and JFK, had become secret supporters of Communism.

9. Guy Gabaldon said in his book that he wanted nothing more than to personally eliminate Fidel Castro and take Cuba back for the free Cubans, but JFK and RFK "and the homosexuals of the Washington DC State Department" stood in his way.

10. Harry Dean and Guy Gabaldon would collect paramilitary supplies and medicines donated by well-to-do members of the JBS (mostly doctors, dentists and lawyers) and store them in their home garages, until needed by Hall and Howard for their many trips between Miami and Los Angeles.

11. Guy Gabaldon was the ring-leader of this sub-plot organized by JBS members in Southern California along with Ex-General Edwin Walker, Senator John Rousselot -- and Harry Dean.

12. During the final week of September, 1963, Hall and Howard retrieved Lee Harvey Oswald from New Orleans and drove him to Mexico City to meet Guy Gabaldon there. This is what Harry Dean affirms, having been present at the meetings in which this was specifically planned.

13. Nothing was said about Silvia Odio in those meetings.

14. Later, when reading about the Odio incident in materials related to the Warren Commission, Harry Dean surmised the following:

14.1. Sylvia Odio could barely remember the exact date, but she knew it was the final week of September because she was packing to be settled in a new apartment by October 1st. (The hour was about 8:30 pm).

14.2. This was the same week that Hall and Howard would be driving Lee Harvey Oswald.

14.3. Silvia Odio could barely remember the war names of the Latino visitors (which were the only names they gave her). She likely recalled that one name started with an "L" and the other started with an "A" and they both ended with an "o". She concluded that the first name was probably "Leopoldo" and the other name was probably "Angelo".

14.4. Silvia Odio described "Leopoldo" as a Cuban, tall, slim, with curly dark hair, thinning at the temples, who was clearly Cuban -- at least partly. (All this was also true of Loran Hall.)

14.5. Silvia Odio described "Angelo" as a Mexican-American, shorter, stockier, with shiny black hair all over his body, who spoke very little. (All this was also true of Larry Howard.)

14.6. "Leopoldo" introduced the American to her as "Leon Oswald." and she shook his hand and heard his voice offer greetings in a very broken Spanish. (Leon is the common Spanish name for the English name, "Lee". His Spanish was rudimentary.)

14.7. "Leopoldo" explained that they had just come from New Orleans, and had to leave Dallas very soon -- i.e. they were only passing through.

14.8. "Leopoldo" told her a story that was clearly a lie -- that they were members of JURE, and that he had known her father in a Cuban jail cell.

14.9. Silvia Odio did not let them into her house, but kept them outside of her door, in the brightly lighted hallway, for 20 minutes as Silvia continued to deny them support, or even a promise of support.

15. Harry Dean feels confident that she saw Loran Hall and Larry Howard (probably on 25 Sep 1963) and that the actual war names that she could not easily remember were probably, "Lorenzo" and "Alonzo".

16. Harry Dean feels confident that Loran Hall was trying to get money from her -- because he never had enough money -- and lying had become easy for him.

17. Hary Dean feels confident that Loran Hall and Larry Howard drove Lee Harvey Oswald to Mexico City to meet Guy Gabaldon in a couple of days. (Mexico City is basically a 20 hour drive, directly South from Dallas).

18. On the 27th of September, Lee Harvey Oswald was in Mexico City, being turned down for a Visa to Cuba -- of which we have evidence.

19. What else Lee Harvey Oswald did in Mexico City, experts do not know -- there are many disagreements.

20. Harry Dean proposes that Hall and Howard, having driven Lee Harvey Oswald to Mexico City (as evidenced by Silvia Odio's accurate description of them) completed their mission and delivered Oswald to Guy Gabaldon, at the headquarters of DACA (Drive Against Communist Aggression).

Insofar as the Odio Incident is one of the linchpins of any well-rounded JFK Conspiracy scenario, it is more than a coincidence, IMHO, that the memoirs of Harry Dean harmonize so well with it.

Best regards,
--Paul Trejo
<edit typos>

Edited April 8, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Ernie Lazar]

Another Harry anomaly -- but probably reveals something very important

I am in the process of compiling extensive notes regarding every serial in Harry's Los Angeles FBI file -- including typing the entire verbatim text of Harry's communications with the Los Angeles office.

When I am finished (probably sometime in the next 3-4 days) I will be posting online my entire document (along with scanned copies of some key documents) on my new Harry Dean webpage here: https://sites.google.com/site/xrt013/harrydean

This morning as I was typing the entire text of one of Harry's letters (and incidentally, ALL of his letters to the FBI were typed in ALL CAPS) -- I noticed a comment which did not totally register with me the first time I went through these documents. I copy below the entire text of Harry's letter. Afterward, I enter my comments.

Harry Dean letter (not dated on first page but it opens by referring to his December 5, 1964 phone conversation “this date”).

Harry's letter addressed as “Report to Los Angeles Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation – Harry Dean” [Text of letter in ALL CAPS]

“I have spoken by phone with Lawrence Howard, this date Dec 5 1964. In this telephone conversation I approached Howard as one who had been brought under suspicion by the authorities, because I had associated with him in 1963 in connection with anti-Castro activities. As late as Sept 1964 your office according to the Warren Report of October 1964 was still investigating the possible connection of Loran Eugene Hall, Lawrence Howard, William Seymour ‘or Oswald’ according to the testimony of Mrs. Sylvia Odio an anti-Castro Cuban national, and member of J.U.R.E living in Dallas. I have been associated with J.U.R.E. in L.A. also. In the phone conversation Howard stated to me that Hall was always a chronic xxxx, in every case, a person who talked to (sic) much, ‘a big mouth’, and that Hall had harmed the operations of several anti-Castro groups and Howard as well, that Hall since leaving the Castro forces in Cuba in 1959 had returned to the U.S. and became an opportunist, who wished to cash in on his past adventure, to become a ledgend (sic), at the expence (sic) of anyone and everyone. Howard seemed to want me to see Hall in a bad light as Howard stated that Hall had said something unfavorable about me and had had me investigated by anti-Communist members. He ask that I set up a meeting with Hall and he, that Howard might straiten (sic) Hall out, etc. I have no idea of Hall’s whereabouts and care not, as I told Howard. I had spoken to Guy Galbadon about two weeks ago, he is a friend of Howard and knows Hall. Hall at my suggestion became the Director of Galbadon’s political campaign in June 1964. Galbadon said later he was extremly (sic) dissatisfied with Hall and had lost because of Hall’s lying during the campaign for Congress. Two weeks ago as I reported by phone to the L.A. office of FBI, Galbadon said Howard would kill Hall, they hate him for more than lying? Howard said he does know William Seymour and that he and Seymour were never at Mrs. Odio’s with or without Hall. He said he told the FBI this etc. recently. I have stated to Mr. Rapp FBI Pomona office upon finding this information in Warren Report among other things that I first met Hall in 1963 late in the year. My entire interest in justice in all it’s (sic) aspects where I have been concerned in this case, and I base any of my thinking on law and order, and all it includes. I could never support any philosophy wherein law does not exist. Here I draw the line in any cause, that you might understand my true thinking. I do not wish to interfere, or project any supposition into this case. It is hoped that none of these mentioned are in any way connected with the horrible death of Mr. Kennedy as is my thinking by this time, I wish to clarify only my coincidental association with Hall, and Howard, as I first reported to Agent Rapp two weeks past. These were not my choice of people in any case, but in my reports against Castro and communism, they were there and supposedly doing the same job? Sincerely H. Dean”

[Postscript: “I have also spoken with a member of J.U.R.E. and as much as he will say about Mrs. Odio is that she was ‘scared’.]

COMMENT

Notice Harry's reference to his "first" report "to Agent Rapp two weeks past" regarding Hall, Howard, and Galbadon. That would mean sometime during the week of November 17th 1964.

Let's recap:

1. We have already established that Harry could never have spoken to Wesley Grapp in the summer of 1963 because Grapp did not arrive in Los Angeles until March 1964.

2. Harry now states very clearly that his "first" report regarding Galbadon, Hall, Howard and their possible connection to the murder of JFK was made circa November 17, 1964 when he claimed he contacted Agent Rapp. There is one serial by Rapp dated 11/30/64 which refers to Harry being interviewed "at his request and in response to his telephone call to the Los Angeles Office".

Rapp's memo states that the contact with Harry was made on 11/19/64 which corresponds to Harry's "two weeks past" comment.

Harry told Rapp than when he read a copy of the Warren Report he "was particularly interested in a section concerning Oswald's 'alleged association with various Mexican or Cuban individuals'."

Harry referred to the comments made by Sylvia Odio with respect to "two Cuban underground figures" whom had contacted her, accompanied "by an American whom she believed to be Oswald".

According to Rapp:

"It was determined that the two alleged Cubans were Lawrence Howard and Loran Eugene Hall. Subsequent investigation and interviews with these persons determined that it was not Oswald who had accompanied them."

Harry stated that he had met both Howard and Hall but he "had no contact with either of these persons since the time of the assassination. He did not hear either of them make any anti-Kennedy statements."

"Notwithstanding the evidence to the contrary, he stated that it was interesting to speculate that it might have been Oswald actually with these two men in Dallas. He speculated that both Hall and Howard who are anti-Castro leaders of the Cuban underground, actually wanted President Kennedy removed from the scene because of the failure of the 1960 Cuban invasion. He stated that in his opinion Hall and Howard would be capable of entering into conspiracy with Oswald to commit the assassination. Dean stated that the possibility of Oswald's presence with these Cuban leaders appeared feasible to him and he wanted the FBI to be aware of this possibility in the event that it had not been previously checked out."

3. It now seems clear that Harry's contact with the FBI regarding the JFK assassination never occurred prior to November 1963. Instead, it occurred a year later and it was not with Wesley Grapp. It was with Special Agent Ferd J. Rapp (the two names even sound familiar and could easily explain why Harry is confused about this).

4. Furthermore, it is clear that the FBI did not request Harry to provide any information. Instead, Harry was in the habit of constantly contacting the Los Angeles office (by phone and by letters) to "speculate" about all sorts of matters which HE thought the FBI might be interested in. Nor did Harry give the FBI-Los Angeles office any information about Rousselot or Edwin Walker or Robert Welch etc.

5. Another interesting potential anomaly:

In his 12/5/64 letter, Harry declares that "I have been associated with J.U.R.E. in L.A. also" -- but in his May 1964 interview with an unspecified police department (but probably Los Angeles), Harry was asked if he was familiar with the JURE movement and J-U-R-E was spelled out for him. Harry's reply was: "No, I haven't heard of that one."

There are many other anomalies which are apparent in Harry's letters and phone calls to Los Angeles. My new webpage will discuss them at a later date.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Ernie Lazar

[Harry J.Dean]

Hey lazar, among other twists and turns of your trials is another hang-up re:Wes.Grapp and I,

Grapp was already in Los Angeles FBI seat by late 1963.

[Paul Trejo]

Let's recap:

1. We have already established that Harry could never have spoken to Wesley Grapp in the summer of 1963 because Grapp did not arrive in Los Angeles until March 1964.

2. Harry now states very clearly that his "first" report regarding Galbadon, Hall, Howard and their possible connection to the murder of JFK was made circa November 17, 1964 when he claimed he contacted Agent Rapp. There is one serial by Rapp dated 11/30/64 which refers to Harry being interviewed...

3. It now seems clear that Harry's contact with the FBI regarding the JFK assassination never occurred prior to November 1963. Instead, it occurred a year later and it was not with Wesley Grapp. It was with Special Agent Ferd J. Rapp (the two names even sound familiar and could easily explain why Harry is confused about this).

4. Furthermore, it is clear that the FBI did not request Harry to provide any information. Instead, Harry was in the habit of constantly contacting the Los Angeles office (by phone and by letters) to "speculate" about all sorts of matters which HE thought the FBI might be interested in. Nor did Harry give the FBI-Los Angeles office any information about Rousselot or Edwin Walker or Robert Welch etc.

5. Another interesting potential anomaly: In his 12/5/64 letter, Harry declares that "I have been associated with J.U.R.E. in L.A. also" -- but in his May 1964 interview with an unspecified police department (but probably Los Angeles), Harry was asked if he was familiar with the JURE movement and J-U-R-E was spelled out for him. Harry's reply was: "No, I haven't heard of that one."

Once again, Ernie Lazar claims too much for the tiny bit that he has shown so far.

1. Ernie claims that "we have already established that Harry could never have spoken to Wesley Grapp in the summer of 1963 because Grapp did not arrive in Los Angeles until March 1964." In actual fact, nothing of the kind has been "established". Ernie has claimed this, based on the fact that he has personally seen no FBI records to prove otherwise. There is nothing at all to prove that Ernie Lazar has all the FBI records in the case. So, Ernie again jumps to a conclusion, and he exaggerates the quality of the evidence he claims to hold. Notice, too, that Ernie has stopped posting FBI files to support his case -- we don't know what Ernie is looking at these days. Ernie apparently supposes that he can just conclude anything he wants and have it accepted. What a joke.

2. Ernie Lazar has finally found some FBI files that prove that Harry Dean and Los Angeles FBI agent Wesley Grapp had multiple conversations about the JFK assassination. Will Ernie Lazar now apologize to Harry for publicly doubting that these records even existed (e.g. post #889)? I doubt it. As for the sworn testimony of Silvia Odio that she saw Lee Harvey Oswald at her doorstep with two Latinos during the final week of September, 1963, she was deemed credible by multiple FBI agents, Gaeton Fonzi and members of House Select Committee on Investigations. The opinion of FBI agent Wesley Grapp merely agrees with the conclusion that J. Edgar Hoovers sent to the Warren Commission, based on testimony from Loran Hall, which Hoover knew to be impeached. FBI agents did not contradict FBI Director Hoover -- so Grapp's opinion is itself impeached.

3. Ernie Lazar wishes to jump to the conclusion that "Harry's contact with the FBI regarding the JFK assassination never occurred prior to November 1963," based only on the few FBI records that he has found so far (and is willing to talk about). A mediocre researcher, Ernie refuses to open his mind and wait until all the evidence has been made plain. He wants you, dear readers, to close your minds as well.

4. Ernie Lazar wishes to jump to the conclusion that :"the FBI did not request Harry to provide any information." But this is based only on the little bit of FBI data that Ernie has seen (and is willing to talk about). Ernie further wants to limit the data that Harry told the FBI to the little bit that he's seen so far. What a joke..

5. Ernie Lazar wishes to make hay on the situation that Harry Dean didn't recall the organization JURE in May, 1964, but remembered it in December, 1964. Big deal. There were so many dozens or scores of Cuban Exile commando raid groups from coast to coast that it's a wonder Gaeton Fonzi himself could keep them straight.

Sincerely,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 10, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Ernie Lazar]

Let's recap:

1. We have already established that Harry could never have spoken to Wesley Grapp in the summer of 1963 because Grapp did not arrive in Los Angeles until March 1964.

2. Harry now states very clearly that his "first" report regarding Galbadon, Hall, Howard and their possible connection to the murder of JFK was made circa November 17, 1964 when he claimed he contacted Agent Rapp. There is one serial by Rapp dated 11/30/64 which refers to Harry being interviewed...

3. It now seems clear that Harry's contact with the FBI regarding the JFK assassination never occurred prior to November 1963. Instead, it occurred a year later and it was not with Wesley Grapp. It was with Special Agent Ferd J. Rapp (the two names even sound familiar and could easily explain why Harry is confused about this).

4. Furthermore, it is clear that the FBI did not request Harry to provide any information. Instead, Harry was in the habit of constantly contacting the Los Angeles office (by phone and by letters) to "speculate" about all sorts of matters which HE thought the FBI might be interested in. Nor did Harry give the FBI-Los Angeles office any information about Rousselot or Edwin Walker or Robert Welch etc.

5. Another interesting potential anomaly: In his 12/5/64 letter, Harry declares that "I have been associated with J.U.R.E. in L.A. also" -- but in his May 1964 interview with an unspecified police department (but probably Los Angeles), Harry was asked if he was familiar with the JURE movement and J-U-R-E was spelled out for him. Harry's reply was: "No, I haven't heard of that one."

Once again, Ernie Lazar claims too much for the tiny bit that he has shown so far.

1. Ernie claims that "we have already established that Harry could never have spoken to Wesley Grapp in the summer of 1963 because Grapp did not arrive in Los Angeles until March 1964." In actual fact, nothing of the kind has been "established". Ernie has claimed this, based on the fact that he has personally seen no FBI records to prove otherwise. There is nothing at all to prove that Ernie Lazar has all the FBI records in the case. So, Ernie again jumps to a conclusion, and he exaggerates the quality of the evidence he claims to hold. Notice, too, that Ernie has stopped posting FBI files to support his case -- we don't know what Ernie is looking at these days. Ernie apparently supposes that he can just conclude anything he wants and have it accepted. What a joke.

OK Paul, all of us know you are a chronic habitual xxxx but fill us in on any verifiable factual details which you think you know about Grapp.

Grapp did not arrive in Los Angeles until March 6, 1964, (see my reply to Harry which includes a Los Angeles Times article). Grapp was SAC in Newark NJ until March 1964.

Obviously, therefore, Harry did not talk to Grapp in the summer of 1963 (or any other time in 1963) right?

Why do you think that has not been "established"? BE SPECIIFIC. Instead of your snotty arrogance, give us FACTS that contradict what is available not only in Grapp's obituary notices and in the LA TImes article about the retirement of the then-current SAC in Los Angeles but also confirmed by Wesley Swearingen.

Stop insinuating you know something factual when you have NOTHING to substantiate your stupid comments. This has nothing to do with my personal opinions. Instead, it is what is available from documentary evidence. Furthermore, I have not "stopped posting" anything. I clearly stated that my new webpage will contain key documentary evidence. And let us remember that you have NEVER provided ANY files or documentary evidence of any kind whatsoever. So you have quite the nerve!

2. Ernie Lazar has finally found some FBI files that prove that Harry Dean and Los Angeles FBI agent Wesley Grapp had multiple conversations about the JFK assassination. Will Ernie Lazar now apologize to Harry for publicly doubting that these records even existed (e.g. post #889)? I doubt it. As for the sworn testimony of Silvia Odio that she saw Lee Harvey Oswald at her doorstep with two Latinos during the final week of September, 1963, she was deemed credible by multiple FBI agents, Gaeton Fonzi and members of House Select Committee on Investigations. The opinion of FBI agent Wesley Grapp merely agrees with the conclusion that J. Edgar Hoovers sent to the Warren Commission, based on testimony from Loran Hall, which Hoover knew to be impeached. FBI agents did not contradict FBI Director Hoover -- so Grapp's opinion is itself impeached.

Your comment defies understanding. I have never found ANY "FBI files that prove that Harry Dean and...Grapp had multiple conversations about the JFK assassination." Why do you DELIBERATELY LIE about this? Are you still confusing Agent Ferd J. RAPP with Wesley Grapp?

3. Ernie Lazar wishes to jump to the conclusion that "Harry's contact with the FBI regarding the JFK assassination never occurred prior to November 1963," based only on the few FBI records that he has found so far (and is willing to talk about). A mediocre researcher, Ernie refuses to open his mind and wait until all the evidence has been made plain. He wants you, dear readers, to close your minds as well.

I can only report what all available documentary evidence reveals. I cannot report on, or ASSUME, what there is no documentary evidence to support. There is absolutely nothing which you know about that contradicts what "all the evidence" currently shows. You are merely wishing for some future "evidence" which is an invention of your imagination. My "mediocre" research has proven your LIES multiple times in this thread and my "mediocre"research has provided everyone with documents which have never previously been publicly available --- which is more than YOU can say about your own contributions here.

4. Ernie Lazar wishes to jump to the conclusion that :"the FBI did not request Harry to provide any information." But this is based only on the little bit of FBI data that Ernie has seen (and is willing to talk about). Ernie further wants to limit the data that Harry told the FBI to the little bit that he's seen so far. What a joke..

How much "evidence" do you need to see before you give up your fabrications? The "little bit of FBI data" includes the entire Los Angeles field file and most of his HQ file. By contrast, YOU have not provided ONE SCINTILLA of factual evidence to support your contentions. Instead, you repeatedly and incessantly tell us that there is some unknown file which has not yet been seen even though you have not one particle of factual evidence to support your bogus claim.

5. Ernie Lazar wishes to make hay on the situation that Harry Dean didn't recall the organization JURE in May, 1964, but remembered it in December, 1964. Big deal. There were so many dozens or scores of Cuban Exile commando raid groups from coast to coast that it's a wonder Gaeton Fonzi himself could keep them straight.

You don't even understand the basic facts of the matter. Again, you have not one iota of factual evidence to support your contention. But we all appreciate your continuous and comedic efforts to defend the indefensible.

Sincerely,

--Paul Trejo

My replies are underneath your comments

Edited April 10, 2014 by Ernie Lazar

[Ernie Lazar]

Hey lazar, among other twists and turns of your trials is another hang-up re:Wes.Grapp and I,

Grapp was already in Los Angeles FBI seat by late 1963.

No, Harry, as usual, your recollection is defective.

Grapp did not arrive in Los Angeles until March 6, 1964. See attached Los Angeles Times article

You can also confirm that he was not in Los Angeles until 1964 in his obituary here:

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/latimes/obituary.aspx?n=wesley-g-grapp&pid=154533094

And Seth Rosenfeld's book, "Subversives" also confirms that Grapp did not become SAC Los Angeles until March 1964.

Grapp in Los Angeles 3-6-64.pdf

Edited April 10, 2014 by Ernie Lazar

[Paul Brancato]

Ernie - you have the official record straight, and thanks for that. But you don't know that Grapp didn't meet with Dean in LA in 1963, you just know he wasn't the SAC until March 1964. You don't know that Dean's memory is defective, you just suspect that it is.

[Harry J.Dean]

On 11/29/1963 Wes.G. Grapp was issuing directives to "all FBI Los Angeles agents".