Arsenal

[Guest]

Leaving the Hammers with the dubious honour of best ethnically cleansed football team in London I presume?

Two of our three foreigners are from Israel. The people of the East End have a long tradition of fighting racism.

Wenger called Pardew a racist when he pointed out that Arsenal did not have any British born players in his team. Yet is Wenger who has gone on record as saying he does not trust young British players. On the radio this morning an Arsenal spokesman said that they have great difficulty persuading talented British youngsters to join their academy. Maybe it has something to do with the way that Wenger has treated the young British players he has had under his control.

Arsenal clearly out-fought Jurventus last night. They find that easier to do in Europe. No so easy in the Premiership.

Arsenal outplayed Juve last night and were significantly fitter and better prepared.

I have no clue as to the reliability or otherwise of your comments about an alleged exchange between Pardew and Wenger.

I would however point out that it is you who appears to be fixated by the notion that "British" clubs should field only "British" players. It is a theme common to many of your posts about football.

Have you been unduly influenced by the Daily Mail when you weren't looking?

[John Simkin]

I would however point out that it is you who appears to be fixated by the notion that "British" clubs should field only "British" players. It is a theme common to many of your posts about football.

I have never said that. Although I do think British clubs should include one or two British players. I do not consider it healthy that we have a manager of a top English club who is clearly anti-British.

[Guest]

I would however point out that it is you who appears to be fixated by the notion that "British" clubs should field only "British" players. It is a theme common to many of your posts about football.

I have never said that. Although I do think British clubs should include one or two British players. I do not consider it healthy that we have a manager of a top English club who is clearly anti-British.

I think the truth is John you just don't like Arsenal

Personally I have no problem with them. I used to dislike them pre-Wenger when they played boring and negative football. I wouldn't be crass enough however to claim it was all those British players George Graham was employing!

[Ed Waller]

Surely there's an economic argument for fielding locally produced players, rather than a nationalistic one - not that Chelski's Lampard and Cole could claim to be produced locally. Even those players nurtured by Championship or League 1 or 2 would be generally cheaper to buy. More a long-term rationale for having British players at British clubs.

Globalisation, eh? Don't you just love it!!

[John Simkin]

I think the truth is John you just don't like Arsenal

I don’t dislike any club. I always find the hostility towards other clubs, for example, the hatred that Liverpool fans have towards Everton, juvenile and pathetic. I always support British clubs when they play in Europe.

I have to admit that I am fairly passionate about West Ham. That goes very deep and the roots go back to childhood. My feelings towards other clubs is largely based on my assessment of their manager.

There is a lot to like about Wenger. I fully approved of the way he got rid of the drinking culture at Arsenal. He also revolutionized the eating habits of his players. This approach has spread to other teams. I also like the way he manages players. However, I do think his anti-British attitudes (not uncommon in the French) has been damaging to the health of English football.

That is why I approve of the job been done at Spurs. Jol, like Pardew, has bought the best British players he can afford. Both men have also given opportunities to members of their academies. That is the reason that I hope Spurs finish higher than Arsenal this season.

I would think that Wenger will try to change his policy over the next few months. He might well find that he does not have a full stadium when he moves from Highbury. It is said he wants to imitate the success of Manchester United. However, Ferguson, despite his anti-English feelings (he once admitted he would turn the England job down because he would not want them to win even if he was manager), he has always relied heavily on British players from the Manchester academy. That is important to local fans. It might even become important to Arsenal fans if Spurs end up higher than them in the league this season.

[Guest]

I think the truth is John you just don't like Arsenal

I don’t dislike any club. I always find the hostility towards other clubs, for example, the hatred that Liverpool fans have towards Everton, juvenile and pathetic.

......

I do think his anti-British attitudes (not uncommon in the French) has been damaging to the health of English football.

I hate to disabuse you of a deeply held belief but there is no hatred between Liverpool and Everton supporters. Most football supporters from the city of Liverpool find themselves (like I did) on the opposing side of their father, brother, sister, uncle etc. There is fierce rivalry but no hatred. I am afraid you have picked the wrong clubs to make your point.

Are we to conclude then that it is French people who are in your view "anti British" that you don't like?

[Dan Lyndon]

There is a lot to like about Wenger. I fully approved of the way he got rid of the drinking culture at Arsenal. He also revolutionized the eating habits of his players. This approach has spread to other teams. I also like the way he manages players. However, I do think his anti-British attitudes (not uncommon in the French) has been damaging to the health of English football.

And I like the fact that he has won 3 championships and 3 FA cups and took us unbeaten for 49 games as well as playing the most entertaining football that has been seen over the last decade. I do not accept that Wenger is anti English. It was not so long ago under Wenger that the entire back five was English (Seaman, Dixon, Winterburn, Adams and Bould). The reality is that Wenger refuses to be held over a barrel paying ridiculously over inflated prices for English players. Are you really telling me that Shaun Wright Phillips is 2 and a half times better than Thierry Henry (£24m v £10.5m). I don't think so. Wenger is an internationalist (and I thought a good old socialist like yourself would appreciate that) and does not see nationality, he just sees damn fine players.

I would think that Wenger will try to change his policy over the next few months. He might well find that he does not have a full stadium when he moves from Highbury.

Two points which I can only describe as codswallop. Why on earth would Wenger change a system that is now producign some of the best young players in the country. Fabregas - who has now been at the club for three years, Van Persie, Toure, Senderos, Eboue are going to be the superstars of tomorrow. And the stadium is already oversubscribed. I have been on the season ticket waiting list for 3 years and I still can't get a ticket. It wasn't long ago that Arsenal were getting 80,000 watching their European games at Wembley.

The future is bright, the future is in red and white.

[John Simkin]

I do not accept that Wenger is anti English. It was not so long ago under Wenger that the entire back five was English (Seaman, Dixon, Winterburn, Adams and Bould). The reality is that Wenger refuses to be held over a barrel paying ridiculously over inflated prices for English players.

They were all recruited by George Graham (either bought from the lower leagues or were part of the academy system). They served Wengler well but he eventually replaced them with foreigners. The idea that British players are too expensive when compared to foreigners is nonsense. How is it that teams like West Ham and Spurs can raise the money to buy British players? Take the example of Michael Carrick. Wengler considered buying him but changed his mind and he went to Spurs. For some time Arsenal have had a problem at centre-back. Even so they sold Matthew Upton who has done a great job at Birmingham until his injury. A series of foreigners have proved inadequate in this role for Arsenal. Yet at the end of last season Spurs and West Ham solved their central-back problem by buying British players. These players were available to Arsenal. Yet they were ignored.

[Dan Lyndon]

Carrick would not get into the Arsenal midfield because he is not good enough. I would hardly describe Kolo Toure as inadequate. You may be referrring to Pascal Cygan which all Arsenal supporters would agree with you. Upson probably should have stayed at Arsenal but was happy to leave because he was not getting enough first team games, as the English centre backs Campbell and Adams kept him out. One point that you have not recognised is how well the Arsenal academy has produced young English players who are good enough to play at a decent level ie Steve Sidwell at Reading, Ryan Smith at Leicester, Justin Hoyte at Sunderland but are not good enough to get into the Arsenal first team.

[John Simkin]

Carrick would not get into the Arsenal midfield because he is not good enough. I would hardly describe Kolo Toure as inadequate. You may be referrring to Pascal Cygan which all Arsenal supporters would agree with you. Upson probably should have stayed at Arsenal but was happy to leave because he was not getting enough first team games, as the English centre backs Campbell and Adams kept him out. One point that you have not recognised is how well the Arsenal academy has produced young English players who are good enough to play at a decent level ie Steve Sidwell at Reading, Ryan Smith at Leicester, Justin Hoyte at Sunderland but are not good enough to get into the Arsenal first team.

It is interesting who reads this Forum. I have just had an email from a football journalist who has been commissioned to write a report for the PFA on the impact of foreign players on the British game. The report will be very critical of Arsenal. He also pointed out how Wengler successful got the debate ended when he called Pardew a "racist". It is a tactic that is always used by those who cannot intellectually argue their case.

[Guest]

He also pointed out how Wengler successful got the debate ended when he called Pardew a "racist". It is a tactic that is always used by those who cannot intellectually argue their case.

I cannot comment on this specific case but please note such tactics can also be used by intelligent people when dealing with people who are being racist.

Such people do not like being confronted by their own irrational prejudices but it is in my experience the best way of dealing with them.

.........Who is Wengler?

[John Simkin]

I have been disappointed by Spurs’ recent performances. It looks like they will struggle to hold on to the 4th spot. One of the great ironies is that even if they do make 4th place, they will not get into the Champions League if Arsenal win it this year.

[John Simkin]

The Guardian today:

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,1753770,00.html

Arsenal's north London rivals Tottenham will be contesting the Premiership title within three years, according to their manager Martin Jol, who joined in criticising the non-British nature of the Highbury team which reached the Champions League semi-finals by claiming that domestic football fans would welcome his side winning the league with a British backbone.

"I would like to challenge for the title. It's not easy but I think that in the next three years we could make a good challenge to be champions," Jol said. "You need consistency at the club, with the players as well. Our spine always remains the same with Ledley [King], Paul [Robinson], [Michael] Carrick, Robbie Keane is there for another four years and [Jermain] Defoe. It is probably an advantage over a lot of other clubs having a British base.

"Last week there was not one single British player in the Champions League. Did you notice? So if we could do it, I don't think it would only be a big achievement for us but for English football as well.

"When I was younger, Spurs was the best club in Britain. There is still the same fan base, the same sell-outs every week and the best away crowd with one or two other clubs, so it remains the same. The only thing was they were waiting for us."

[Guest]

The Guardian today:

"Last week there was not one single British player in the Champions League. Did you notice? So if we could do it, I don't think it would only be a big achievement for us but for English football as well.

Rather an easy pot shot against their north London rivals don't you think?

Who would have thought that the foot soldiers for the 4th Reich would be wearing football boots

[John Simkin]

I see those racists at Uefa are introducing a new rule next season. Uefa has announced clubs competing in the Champions League and Uefa Cup will have to include four homegrown players in their 25-man squad from 2006. Uefa then wants six homegrown players by 2007 and eight in 2008. Of the eight, at least four must be trained by the club's own academy and the rest in the home country.

Of the 32 sides in last season's Champions League, five clubs would have not had enough homegrown players to meet the requirement of eight under the eventual new ruling: Arsenal, Chelsea, Celtic, Rangers and Ajax.