Why the CIA was involved in the JFK Assasination

[Robert Howard]

You've gotta love Hemming's stupid game...

That guy is Borja?????????

LOL.

Ummmm, no.

Despite what assclown Hemming and those idiot LaFontaines say, Borja is not pictured in any of the photos you show.

As a separate item alluding to recent posts concerning Isidro Borja - the Cuban government believes that he may one of the individuals present in the background as Lee H. Oswald is handing out FPCC leaflets in Cuba.

And in closing, in Noel Twyman's Bloody Treason he mentions that Bernado de Torres ostensibly "Leopoldo" has been established as a contact of David Sanchez Morales. (Robert Howard)

Hi Robert,

I've had a good look at those images showing Oswald handing out the leaflets in New Orleans and the only guy who goes close to Borja is this man below in the comparison. I don't think this is in fact Borja. Gerry Hemming has identified Borja as the man seated between Dennis Harber and Bernardo De Torres in the first attachment.

The man in New Orleans does resemble a man who was part of a protest in Canada with Russell McLarry. (on the right in the comparison)

FWIW.

James

Larry, I hope you jump in on this regarding the "film" Robert Tannenbaum saw before it allegedly disappeared from the HSCA after being found at Georgetown U.

"Here is Tanenbaum's description of what the film contained,

condensed from his novel based in part on his HSCA experiences,

*Corruption of Blood.* The plot of the novel is fictionalized; the

evidence discussed is not.

". . . The small square screen showed a shadowy landscape, some bushes

and trees, then a road. The film was black-and-white and grainy, or

perhaps the graininess was just an artifact of the ground-glass screen of

the editing machine. In any case, the film seemed to have been shot in

bad light, at dusk perhaps, or in moonlight.

"The camera panned across dark woods that seemed vaguely tropical --

palmettos, Spanish moss, and hanging vines -- past an open field, and

onto the road again. A line of two-and-a-half-ton military trucks

appeared, moving slowly, their headlights cut to thin slits. The trucks

stopped and soldiers leaped out and lined up on the road. They were

dressed in fatigues and soft caps. Most carried rifles, but there were

some with machine guns and mortar components, and . . . one with a folded

bazooka.

"The film now cut jerkily to maneuvers: the soldiers rushed across the

field and flung themselves down, while others provided covering fire. The

film was silent, but you could see the pinpoints of fire from the rifles

and the shimmering gouts of muzzle blast from the machine guns. It cut to

a mortar team firing, dropping the shells in odd silence down the tubes

and shielding their ears from the blasts. . . . they seemed well drilled.

". . . Now the camera was obviously in a vehicle of some kind, an open

vehicle because the camera could pan around 360 degrees. A jeep: the

well-known square hood flashed by and then the backs of the heads of two

men with military caps on. A white road sign loomed up and started to

whip by. . . . The road sign had the shape of Louisiana and a number."

This is by Lake Pontchartrain, near New Orleans. The jeep ride ended and

the camera cut to a group of five men standing around a jeep, talking, as

troops filed by in the background. There were two unidentified Cubans.

There was a "stocky guy with the round face" -- Antonio Veciana of the

CIA-backed anti-Castro squad, Alpha 66. There was a "tall, ugly guy" --

Guy Banister, head of the Anti-Communist League of the Caribbean,

resident of 544 Camp Street, New Orleans. There was a figure wearing

civilian clothes, "a tall man with dark hair, a prominent nose, and

deeply impressed wrinkles under his eyes . . . turning away from the lens

as the shot opened, as if more interested in some background object than

in the conversation the men were having; that, or he had a predisposition

to avoid being the subject of photography. Tanenbaum believes this man

was CIA officer David Atlee Phillips.

"In the treacly movements of slow motion, the camera's view moved to

another group of men standing by a truck. One of the men in the group

turned around and smiled at the camera. It was actually more of a smirk

than a smile, the famous smirk. . . . Lee Harvey Oswald." There were

several unidentified men.

". . . The screen brightened. It was full day. Some men were shooting

pistols at a crude outdoor firing range, firing at man-shaped targets

nailed to trees." Antonio Veciana appeared in civilian clothes now,

"holding an .45 and smiling. The view moved unsteadily at each soundless

explosion. Two men, grinning, held up a well-punctured target. A man in a

black T-shirt and ball cap sat at a table loading bullets into pistol

magazines. He looked up for an instant, frowned, spoke briefly, and

lowered his head again so that the bill of the cap obscured his face. He

resembled Oswald, but Tanenbaum thought it had "to be some time later

than in the first scenes, because his sideburns grown longer. . . .

More shooting, men posing with weapons, then a close-up of a round-faced

man with a fright wig and patently phony, impossibly thick eyebrows. . .

David Ferrie . . . nobody else looked like Ferrie."

The film cut to a shot of the man who looked like Oswald in the ball cap

and black T-shirt. "The shot was taken from the rear and showed him

standing, aiming at a target twenty-five yards downrange and firing off

seven shots rapidly. . . . The camera moved in for a close-up of the head

of the target silhouette. It was shredded and flapping away from its

fiberboard backing. There was more target practice, then another twenty

seconds of paramilitary exercises. Then it ended."

END

Larry, I have read that at one time you were skeptical about the story of the film, to me Robert Tannenbaum is a very credible source. (Not that I am implying you feel differently).

Over the last two or three years have you or anyone else heard anything more about it? To me this film would be extremely significant, if it still exists; I know I'm reaching but I thought it was worth a post.

I recently read the Probe magazine interview with Bob Tannebaum for the first time. The following is a segment of that interview

(David Atlee) "Phillips was saying that an individual went to Mexico City on or about October 1st and the CIA was claiming this was Lee Harvey Oswald, just as the Warren Commission claimed. However, the following occurred: "Oswald" goes to the Russian Embassy and identifies himself as Lee Henry Oswald. He wants to fake everybody out by changing his middle name. There were tapes of what he said because the CIA was bugging the Embassy the same as they were doing to the U.S. Embassy, according to Phillips. And the CIA was photographing people going in and out of the Embassy, the same as they were doing to the U.S. (We found out, from our own sources that the CIA had a contract employee named Lee Henry Oswald, in their files.) Phillips testimony was that there was no photograph of "Oswald" because the camera equipment had broken down that day and there was no audio tape of "Oswald's" voice because they recycled their tapes every six or seven days. The problem with his story was, we had obtained a document, it was from the desk of J. Edgar Hoover, it was dated November 23rd, 1963, the very next day after the assassination. This document was a memo to all FBI supervisorial staff stating, in substance, that FBI agents who have questioned Oswald for the past 17 hours approximately, have listened to the tape made on October 1st, by an individual identifying himself as Lee Henry Oswald inside the Russian Embassy, calling on the phone to someone inside the Cuban Embassy and the agents can state unequivocally that the voice on the tape is not the voice of Lee Harvey Oswald, who is in custody."

Again, and correct me if I'm wrong, Tannebaum is saying "the CIA had a contract employee named Lee Henry Oswald." Although I may have read that there was a "Oswald, Lee Henry" CIA file (lumped in with several different Oswald files) I have never heard Tannenbaum's asertion that there was an actual agent named "Lee Henry Oswald."

Can anyone provide more information on this?

[Larry Hancock]

Robert, their are a host of things in the statement about the film that make either little or no sense for something that was supposed to have happened in the summer of 1963.

Perhaps more to the point, can you imagine being an HSCA investigator in 1976/77 and having a film showing someone identical or closely resembling Lee Oswald with all of the well known names from the Garrison investigation. Would you drop Garrison a note about it? There was a good deal of communication between staff and Garrison, on fairly trivial things...where is the letter about this explosive item? Plus where are all the internal HSCA memoranda about so dramatic a find? And you have this film and decide not to blow up any frames and file them away or share them.....and there is no gossip among the HSCA staff about this find?

Then you go on and find document showing Oswald to be an employee or maybe just an informant. But again, no internal memos, no gossip, nothing in the published HSCA report about either item?

Perhaps this makes sense to somebody but it doesn't to me; I can't figure out what Tannenbaum is doing with such statements but it seems to me that he needs to answer some questions about why he apparently kept them to himself?

-- Larry

[Tim Carroll]

He [Garrison] would also have enjoyed having the photos which show Ferrie with Stugis and one of Sturgis associates taken in the summer of 1962....clearly Ferrie had some prior association with folks out of Miami pre-BOP. And that would have been one more real and very significant actual CIA asset....so significant that Helms had to obfuscate if not actually commit perjury covering up the CIA's use of Sturgis as an informant.

I've somehow missed seeing "photos which show Ferrie with Sturgis...." Can anyone please tell me if they're posted on this forum and if so, where?

Tim

[Pat Speer]

Perhaps this makes sense to somebody but it doesn't to me; I can't figure out what Tannenbaum is doing with such statements but it seems to me that he needs to answer some questions about why he apparently kept them to himself?

-- Larry

I think Tannenbaum's memory is just a little confused. A few months back I got all excited because I realized that both Tannenbaum and Sprague said the Oswald impersonator in MC idenitfied himself as Lee Henry Oswald, which to me was proof it was a CIA game because the only Lee Henry Oswald was the one in the CIA's files, either by accident or CI design. Anyhow, I soon calmed down and realized the two of them were probably old friends who talk about the case from time to time, and who, as a consequence, mis-remember the same things.

Edited October 6, 2005 by Pat Speer

[Larry Hancock]

Tim, you won't see them on the forum unless someone has copies of what I've seen. I probably

should not have mentioned them in the first place as I do not possess the photos nor would I have

permission to post, distribute nor use them. I can tell you I've viewed them and that they show

Ferrie in the company of DeJoseph, not Sturgis. Of course it is well known that DeJoseph was

an associate of Sturgis. The photos were made during a series of trips to New Orleans in the

summer of 1962 in which discussions were underway about a training camp for the CRC in

the New Orleans area....which never jelled by the way.

Perhaps someone else has access to the photos, I know a limited number of people have seen

them. However in this case I'm afraid you would have to take my word that they exist. Which

puts me right there along with Tanenbaum I suppose....guess I'll go write an internal memo on them.

-- Larry

He [Garrison] would also have enjoyed having the photos which show Ferrie with Stugis and one of Sturgis associates taken in the summer of 1962....clearly Ferrie had some prior association with folks out of Miami pre-BOP. And that would have been one more real and very significant actual CIA asset....so significant that Helms had to obfuscate if not actually commit perjury covering up the CIA's use of Sturgis as an informant.

I've somehow missed seeing "photos which show Ferrie with Sturgis...." Can anyone please tell me if they're posted on this forum and if so, where?

Tim

[Tim Carroll]

I probably should not have mentioned them in the first place as I do not possess the photos nor would I have permission to post, distribute nor use them. I can tell you I've viewed them and that they show Ferrie in the company of DeJoseph, not Sturgis.

He [Garrison] would also have enjoyed having the photos which show Ferrie with Stugis and one of Sturgis associates taken in the summer of 1962....clearly Ferrie had some prior association with folks out of Miami pre-BOP. And that would have been one more real and very significant actual CIA asset....so significant that Helms had to obfuscate if not actually commit perjury covering up the CIA's use of Sturgis as an informant.

I've somehow missed seeing "photos which show Ferrie with Sturgis...." Can anyone please tell me if they're posted on this forum and if so, where?

Larry has said both that the photos "show Ferrie with Sturgis" and that they "show Ferrie in the company of DeJoseph, not Sturgis." They sound intriguing.

Tim

[Larry Hancock]

Tim, any remark I may have made about photos of Ferrie and Sturgis would have been

incorrect and a result of posting too late in the day. My statement about having seen photos

of Ferrie and De Joeseph stands. Hopefully this will clarifiy my posts and that's

about all I can say to the subject. Anyone can may further mystery out of it if they wish.

-- Larry

[Tim Carroll]

Tim, any remark I may have made about photos of Ferrie and Sturgis would have been incorrect and a result of posting too late in the day. My statement about having seen photos of Ferrie and De Joeseph stands. -- Larry

I apologize for being too anal about nailing this detail down; it's just that I was struck by the mention of photos showing Ferrie and Sturgis together. That would be very significant. As it is, a photo of Ferrie with DeJoseph still demonstrates an important connection.

Tim

[James Richards]

Tim, any remark I may have made about photos of Ferrie and Sturgis would have been

incorrect and a result of posting too late in the day. My statement about having seen photos

of Ferrie and De Joeseph stands. Hopefully this will clarifiy my posts and that's

about all I can say to the subject. Anyone can may further mystery out of it if they wish.

-- Larry

Larry is right. Photos of Ferrie and Larry DeJoseph do exist as I have copies of them. I do not have permission to post them.

James

[Larry Hancock]

And I've got to watch my typing and spelling much more closely...!!

But as you say Tim, it is very significant and I think clearly demonstrates that Ferrie had a relationship with Cuban activities before the BOP, with people from Miami after the BOP and that he may very well have heard some significant gossip about the conspiracy if nothing else. We can all imagine Garrison's level of interest if he had been able to directly tie Ferrie to anti-Castro activists in Miami. One also has to wonder what Garrison might have made out of the Gill Wray phone records which seem to suggest a lenghty number of calls by Ferrie from Texas to NO in 1963.

I recall hearing news stories about the Garrison investigation at the time and being totally at sea about what in the world New Orleans could have to do with an assassination in Dallas. Given what has emerged it seems to me that the the real connection that gave birth to the attack in Dallas may well have been the ongoing one that existed for about three years between individuals/associations in Miami and New Orleans.

-- Larry

Tim, any remark I may have made about photos of Ferrie and Sturgis would have been incorrect and a result of posting too late in the day. My statement about having seen photos of Ferrie and De Joeseph stands. -- Larry

I apologize for being too anal about nailing this detail down; it's just that I was struck by the mention of photos showing Ferrie and Sturgis together. That would be very significant. As it is, a photo of Ferrie with DeJoseph still demonstrates an important connection.

Tim

[Tim Carroll]

Given what has emerged it seems to me that the the real connection that gave birth to the attack in Dallas may well have been the ongoing one that existed for about three years between individuals/associations in Miami and New Orleans.

The New Orleans/Miami, Marcello/Trafficante circuit was crucial, especially when considering Oswald's ties to Banister and Ferrie. The Dallas connection to gunrunning in the Southeast going back to the days when U.S. interests were supplying Castro with weapons also brings the Dallas component into play, especially given Jack Ruby's specific involvement in those activities.

Tim

[Robert Howard]

Given what has emerged it seems to me that the the real connection that gave birth to the attack in Dallas may well have been the ongoing one that existed for about three years between individuals/associations in Miami and New Orleans.

The New Orleans/Miami, Marcello/Trafficante circuit was crucial, especially when considering Oswald's ties to Banister and Ferrie. The Dallas connection to gunrunning in the Southeast going back to the days when U.S. interests were supplying Castro with weapons also brings the Dallas component into play, especially given Jack Ruby's specific involvement in those activities.

Tim

After reading the last few posts on this thread, I realize that I have forgotten about the whole element known as "copyright material" and/or "intellectual property." I certainly do not want to violate any laws in my posts as far as reproducing images and copyrighted material. At the risk of sounding like a clod, does anybody feel comfortable giving me the basic parameters regarding posts on this forum that involve images and writing that is copyrighted?

[James Richards]

Tim, you won't see them on the forum unless someone has copies of what I've seen. I probably

should not have mentioned them in the first place as I do not possess the photos nor would I have

permission to post, distribute nor use them. I can tell you I've viewed them and that they show

Ferrie in the company of DeJoseph, not Sturgis. Of course it is well known that DeJoseph was

an associate of Sturgis. The photos were made during a series of trips to New Orleans in the

summer of 1962 in which discussions were underway about a training camp for the CRC in

the New Orleans area....which never jelled by the way.

Perhaps someone else has access to the photos, I know a limited number of people have seen

them. However in this case I'm afraid you would have to take my word that they exist. Which

puts me right there along with Tanenbaum I suppose....guess I'll go write an internal memo on them. (Larry Hancock)

Just to continue the interesting associations of Larry De Joseph beyond David Ferrie.

Via an FBI informant, De Joseph was said to have been an employee of Santo Trafficante in Cuba where he worked at the Sans Souci Gambling Casino in Havana. To back that up, William Kenney, Departmental Attorney for the United States Department of Justice advised that De Joseph was fronting for Trafficante in a deal with the Guatemalan government where a casino would be constructed. In return for gambling rights, Trafficante would build a public housing project.

De Joseph was also closely associated with Roger Rigaud who was a leader of the Parti National Haitien. Rigaud would stay with De Joseph while in Miami. Rigaud was closely aligned with Paul Magloire who was the co-ordinator of the various Haitian exile groups.

In mid 1963, Rigaud was mixed up with this deal where a base was to be set up in Haiti so operations against Castro could be conducted. Also in this group was Robert Emmett Johnson, his brother William, Loran Hall, Felipe Vidal Santiago, Eduardo Perez aka Eddie Bayo, Antonio Rodriguez Echezabal and Enrique Molina.

Certainly a curious circle of operators.

FWIW.

James

[James Richards]

Peter,

Not that I am aware of. If one was to go exploring though, one would start with Joseph D. Charles.

FWIW.

James

[William Kelly]

Robert, Where did you get this? Thanks, BK

At the time of the House Select Committee investigation in 1976, inquiries to the CIA about Clay Shaw were coordinated by J. Walton Moore, the former Dallas CIA contact for Oswald's friend George DeMohrenschildt.