42nd anniversary and where are we?

[Dawn Meredith]

There was a GREAT movie in the 70's called I think "The Trial OF Alger Hiss", which convinced me that Nixon (and Roy Cohn) framed Hiss. Chambers was a proven nut and xxxx. I have tried to find this film to purchace it but have not been successful. Anyone rember it? It was circa 79-80.

Dawn

[Lynne Foster]

There was a GREAT movie in the 70's called I think "The Trial OF Alger Hiss", which convinced me that Nixon (and Roy Cohn) framed Hiss. Chambers was a proven nut and xxxx. I have tried to find this film to purchace it but have not been successful. Anyone rember it? It was circa 79-80.

Dawn

Given the credibility of the parties involved, I agree, and I think it gave Nixon the confidence to continue to act in the same old destructive way. What's that saying about a leopard like Garrison? -had to throw that in.

Don't get mad, it's just what I believe, you don't have to agree.

[Tim Gratz]

Gee, have neither of you read of the Verona files?

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f...hissvenona.html

In doing a quick web-search for the Verona files I found a fascinating web-site called "Famous Trials". Worth checking out. It is run by a law professor. His evaluation is that Hiss is guilty, and he states that he so believes with a 99% confidence:

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f...ls/FT_GorI.html

From the Hiss obituary published in Salon Magazine:

By the time Alger Hiss died, on Friday at the age of 92, just about everyone conceded that he was guilty; that the brilliant, suave, well-educated, well-connected lawyer-diplomat had indeed been a Communist and a spy for the Soviet Union during the 1930s and '40s. Allen Weinstein's massive 1978 book, "Perjury: The Hiss-Chambers Case," had convinced even pro-Hiss liberals of that.

This is certainly a case that should be considered closed!

Edited November 19, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Dawn Meredith]

[quote name='Tim Gratz' date='Nov 19 2005, 06:09 AM' post='45709']

Gee, have neither of you read of the Verona files?

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f...hissvenona.html

In doing a quick web-search for the Verona files I found a fascinating web-site called "Famous Trials". Worth checking out. It is run by a law professor. His evaluation is that Hiss is guilty, and he states that he so believes with a 99% confidence:

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f...ls/FT_GorI.html

From the Hiss obituary published in Salon Magazine:

By the time Alger Hiss died, on Friday at the age of 92, just about everyone conceded that he was guilty; that the brilliant, suave, well-educated, well-connected lawyer-diplomat had indeed been a Communist and a spy for the Soviet Union during the 1930s and '40s. Allen Weinstein's massive 1978 book, "Perjury: The Hiss-Chambers Case," had convinced even pro-Hiss liberals of that.

My question was has anyone seen this film? It was very convincing.

I will continue to look for it online.

Lynne, NO you did NOT "have to throw that in" about Garrison. You did it just to be vicious. So,

I am going back to just ignoring you. Even when we agree, you are just too weird to know how to behave on this forum. (Whomever you are, Mat/Lynne)

Dawn

This is certainly a case that should be considered closed!

I disagree, but I generally do disagree with you Tim

Dawn

[Tim Gratz]

I'm glad Dawn seems to realize it CAN be more fun to respectfully disagree with a (hopefully) friendly person than to agree with some other people!

Just read an anecdote wherein LBJ asked one of his advisers why no one seemed to like him, and the undiplomatic answer he received was (to the effect) "Face it, Mr. President, you're just not a likeable fellow!"

Edited November 19, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Dawn Meredith]

"Face it, Mr. President, you're just not a likeable fellow!"

Tim: We can most certainly agree on that one!! From day one I believed LBJ had Kennedy killed. That's why I was so excited about Barr's book, but was so disappointed in his faction nonsence. (I sent him a three page detailed email after I read the book). He visited here for 2 days 11/23 and 4 and answered some of my questions, but not the way I wanted. Said his follow-up book would address my issues.

The 40th was quite interesting: Barr McClellean and Nathan Darby sitting on our courch watching themselves on" The Guilty Men". Did you happen to see that episode of TMWKK? If so what did you think of it?

Dawn

[Owen Parsons]

Gee, have neither of you read of the Verona files?

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f...hissvenona.html

In doing a quick web-search for the Verona files I found a fascinating web-site called "Famous Trials". Worth checking out. It is run by a law professor. His evaluation is that Hiss is guilty, and he states that he so believes with a 99% confidence:

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f...ls/FT_GorI.html

From the Hiss obituary published in Salon Magazine:

By the time Alger Hiss died, on Friday at the age of 92, just about everyone conceded that he was guilty; that the brilliant, suave, well-educated, well-connected lawyer-diplomat had indeed been a Communist and a spy for the Soviet Union during the 1930s and '40s. Allen Weinstein's massive 1978 book, "Perjury: The Hiss-Chambers Case," had convinced even pro-Hiss liberals of that.

This is certainly a case that should be considered closed!

I have read the Venona stuff, thank you. On Venona, please read this very good article. That particular presentation of the Venona cable which you link to includes Gordievsky's identification of Hiss as Ales. What it does not say is that Gordievsky cites a Thomas Powers article in the New York Review of Books as his source for this. Powers had been given access to this particular cable before Venona went public. Venona confirming Venona.

On Weinstein, see here, here, here, and here. Weinstein's scholarship is on par with Posner's.

All of this could be found on the website I posted, did you even take a look at it?

Edit: Dawn, some clips from that film can be found here.

Edited November 19, 2005 by Owen Parsons

[Dawn Meredith]

Owen:

Thank you sooo much!!!. I have cut and pasted the articles to copy and save, as well as sent them to Erick, my husband, with whom I had a disagreement about this a few years ago as he too believed the big lie.

Yes, those clips are from that wonderful film.

Maybe I can find it on Amazon or ebay.

Comments Tim? Do you agree that this is indeed

"Case Closed"? Alger Hiss was framed. But Tricky

Dick built his carrer by trying to ruin that of his oppenents.

He had such a wacked realtionship with his mother and

due to his poverty was hateful and jealous of anyone

like Hiss or JFK from Harvard and the eastern establishment.

And handsome and congenial to boot: all the things Dick lacked.

He was one evil, sick man.

I remember an article in Rolling Stone back in the early 70's

on Tricky's childhood and there was a reproduction of

a note he'd written to his mon -("the saint")- which was signed by him:

"Your loving dog, Dick". Indeed!!

Dawn

[Lynne Foster]

Dawn, I agree with you. I can hardly believe my ears.

Edited November 19, 2005 by Lynne Foster

[Terry Mauro]

Gee, have neither of you read of the Verona files?

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f...hissvenona.html

In doing a quick web-search for the Verona files I found a fascinating web-site called "Famous Trials". Worth checking out. It is run by a law professor. His evaluation is that Hiss is guilty, and he states that he so believes with a 99% confidence:

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f...ls/FT_GorI.html

From the Hiss obituary published in Salon Magazine:

By the time Alger Hiss died, on Friday at the age of 92, just about everyone conceded that he was guilty; that the brilliant, suave, well-educated, well-connected lawyer-diplomat had indeed been a Communist and a spy for the Soviet Union during the 1930s and '40s. Allen Weinstein's massive 1978 book, "Perjury: The Hiss-Chambers Case," had convinced even pro-Hiss liberals of that.

This is certainly a case that should be considered closed!

I have read the Venona stuff, thank you. On Venona, please read this very good article. That particular presentation of the Venona cable which you link to includes Gordievsky's identification of Hiss as Ales. What it does not say is that Gordievsky cites a Thomas Powers article in the New York Review of Books as his source for this. Powers had been given access to this particular cable before Venona went public. Venona confirming Venona.

On Weinstein, see here, here, here, and here. Weinstein's scholarship is on par with Posner's.

All of this could be found on the website I posted, did you even take a look at it?

Edit: Dawn, some clips from that film can be found here.

*****************************************************************************

Owen, you are SO gifted!!!

Thank you for the link.

Dawn, this kid should go directly to Harvard or Stanford, NOW! Then, we should send him on a summer sabbatical, to do internship for the Education Forum, at NARA. If there's anyone who'd be able to decipher the filing system over there, it'd be him.

[Lynne Foster]

He's a Nixon lover, why do you promote his posts by repeating the nonsense?

[Owen Parsons]

He's a Nixon lover, why do you promote his posts by repeating the nonsense?

How in hell can I be a Nixon lover if I support Alger Hiss' innocence? And why is my post nonsense, since you obviously agree with my viewpoint here? You aren't making any sort of sense.

[Lynne Foster]

He's a Nixon lover, why do you promote his posts by repeating the nonsense?

How in hell can I be a Nixon lover if I support Alger Hiss' innocence? And why is my post nonsense, since you obviously agree with my viewpoint here? You aren't making any sort of sense.

I am sorry, I was just having a drink, in memory of Dorothy Kilgallen.

I never said I was infallible.

[Terry Mauro]

He's a Nixon lover, why do you promote his posts by repeating the nonsense?

How in hell can I be a Nixon lover if I support Alger Hiss' innocence? And why is my post nonsense, since you obviously agree with my viewpoint here? You aren't making any sort of sense.

I am sorry, I was just having a drink, in memory of Dorothy Kilgallen.

I never said I was infallible.

*********************************************************

"I am sorry, I was just having a drink, in memory of Dorothy Kilgallen.

I never said I was infallible."

Then stop acting like an asshole, Linda Byrd.

[Tim Gratz]

Dawn wrote:

Comments Tim? Do you agree that this is indeed "Case Closed"?

Indeed it should be.

Hiss was, as you know, convicted of perjury not espionage.

Do you contend Hiss was a truth-teller when he denied knowing Chambers?

And what does your anti-Nixon diatribe have to do with whether it was Hiss or Chambers who was the xxxx? The logic escapes me. The fact that Fuhrman may have been a racist does not exonerate Simpson. As you know, the guilt or innocence of a defendant has nothing to do with the moral purity of his prosectors (or defenders for that matter).

One does not have to be a Nixon lover to belive Hiss was guilty. Many who do (such as Schlesinger) are far from Nixon lovers (as you know).

So we should start with the basic question whether Hiss lied when he denied knowing Chambers. I await your answer.

Edited November 20, 2005 by Tim Gratz