Tim Gratz Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 (edited) As I stated in a previous post, I found an old paperback book of the memoirs of Melvin Belli, that contains a chapter on his defense of Jack Ruby. In a different chapter he relates his representation of Mickey Cohen. He calls Cohen "a gentleman". He tells a humorous story that he once had Cohen, under a fictitious name, claim to be a tax attorney and in that role give a lecture at a bar meeting. Does anyone know the relationship between Rosselli and Cohen? Did Cohen help persuade Belli to represent Ruby? Edited December 5, 2005 by Tim Gratz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 As I stated in a previous post, I found an old paperback book of the memoirs of Melvin Belli, that contains a chapter on his defense of Jack Ruby.In a different chapter he relates his representation of Mickey Cohen. He calls Cohen "a gentleman". He tells a humorous story that he once had Cohen, under a fictitious name, claim to be a tax attorney and in that role give a lecture at a bar meeting. Does anyone know the relationship between Rosselli and Cohen? Did Cohen help persuade Belli to represent Ruby? I believe Rosselli once put a hit out on Cohen. As I remember, Cohen was Cleveland mob transplanted into L.A. , while Rosselli was pure-bred Chicago mob. Both were in L.A. with the blessing of long-time Angeleno mobster Jack Dragna. At times they'd step on each other's toes. They must have known a lot of the same people and they must have attended a lot of the same parties however. I believe they also used the same attorneys. Why did you call him Marvin Belli in the thread title? Sleepy???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 Yes, Pat, I was. Sorry! I am sure "All American Mafioso" will have some more information on the Cohen-Rosselli relationship. It is interesting that Belli had represented a famous Mafioso before although certainly Belli was not a full-time lawyer for the Mob. I need to check it, and I will try to do so, but I think Summers recent bio on Sinatra tells a story about an associate of Sinatra who helped get Belli to represent Ruby. Does anyone credit the story that there was a relationship between the assassination and the kidnapping of Sinatra's son? I have read somewhere speculation that the kidnapping was effectuated to draw some of the attention away from the assassination, although I do not understand how this would have helped the conspirators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Does anyone credit the story that there was a relationship between the assassination and the kidnapping of Sinatra's son? I have read somewhere speculation that the kidnapping was effectuated to draw some of the attention away from the assassination, although I do not understand how this would have helped the conspirators. I was suspicious for a long time that Sinatra Jr. was kidnapped to make sure Frank Sr. kept his mouth shut. But then I read about the kidnapping on a Jan and Dean website, It turns out the kidnapping was financed by Dean Torrence. A very entertaining film entitled Stealing Sinatra came out about it last year. Truth is simetimes stranger than fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 (edited) Pat, that is an amazing story. I had not heard it before. What was the motive? I do not remember: was it Jan or Dean who was in the car accident and died last year? I found your thought that Sinata Jr might have been kidnapped to send a "Shut Up" message to Sinatra Sr. interesting. Edited December 5, 2005 by Tim Gratz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Meredith Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 As I stated in a previous post, I found an old paperback book of the memoirs of Melvin Belli, that contains a chapter on his defense of Jack Ruby.In a different chapter he relates his representation of Mickey Cohen. He calls Cohen "a gentleman". He tells a humorous story that he once had Cohen, under a fictitious name, claim to be a tax attorney and in that role give a lecture at a bar meeting. Does anyone know the relationship between Rosselli and Cohen? Did Cohen help persuade Belli to represent Ruby? Tim: I think looking into the role of all the original attorneys in these cases is a very fruitful area of research. They all sold-out their clients! In Sirhan's "trial" his attorney and the DA STIPULATED that Sirhan had killed Bobby. As a former attorney you know this is NOT a trial, except by ambush. It's an area on which I would love to do some first hand research , when I get out from under how busy I presently am. Does anyone here know how attorneys were aquired for Ruby, Sirhan and Ray? (James Earl Ray was also talked into pleading guilty by his attorney, and if I am not mistaken-been many years since I have looked at this- I believe it was also Belli.) Dawn . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Mr. Gratz, it was Jan Berry who was involved in the incapacitating automobile accident...drawing parallels in the minds of fans with Jan and Dean's hit, "Dead Man's Curve." And it was Jan Berry who passed away not so long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Mr. Gratz, it was Jan Berry who was involved in the incapacitating automobile accident...drawing parallels in the minds of fans with Jan and Dean's hit, "Dead Man's Curve." And it was Jan Berry who passed away not so long ago. Credit Penn Jones with the Zangetty aka Zangretti "story?" That is the only "link" I know of between the two. If you will notice in the "mysterious deaths" aspect of the JFK Assassination the Zangretti story is very brief, after doing some digging it seems that no-one has done much research into this alleged? person. If anyone has anything I would certainly be all ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Meredith Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 [quote name='Pat Speer' date='Dec 5 2005, 12:21 PM' post='47399'] Does anyone credit the story that there was a relationship between the assassination and the kidnapping of Sinatra's son? I have read somewhere speculation that the kidnapping was effectuated to draw some of the attention away from the assassination, although I do not understand how this would have helped the conspirators. Pat: At the time that is exactyly what I thought was going on. And for a very long time to come. Never believed the kidnap really happened, that it was just a ploy to get IT on the front pages of the press and ideas of "who killed JFK" off the front pages...not that such ideas were actaully ever in the press...But at 14 I had HOPES that people would be as suspicious as was I. Funny tho, decades later whenever I would bring up this matter- the kidnap- hardly anyone ever remembered that event. About a year ago I saw a documentary that more or less convinced me- for the first time ever- that the kidnapping had actually taken place. Cynical? Me? Quite so!! And ever since I have noted how the press DOES invent stuff to distract people. Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 [quote name='Pat Speer' date='Dec 5 2005, 12:21 PM' post='47399'] Does anyone credit the story that there was a relationship between the assassination and the kidnapping of Sinatra's son? I have read somewhere speculation that the kidnapping was effectuated to draw some of the attention away from the assassination, although I do not understand how this would have helped the conspirators. Pat: At the time that is exactyly what I thought was going on. And for a very long time to come. Never believed the kidnap really happened, that it was just a ploy to get IT on the front pages of the press and ideas of "who killed JFK" off the front pages...not that such ideas were actaully ever in the press...But at 14 I had HOPES that people would be as suspicious as was I. Funny tho, decades later whenever I would bring up this matter- the kidnap- hardly anyone ever remembered that event. About a year ago I saw a documentary that more or less convinced me- for the first time ever- that the kidnapping had actually taken place. Cynical? Me? Quite so!! And ever since I have noted how the press DOES invent stuff to distract people. Dawn I have recently been in contact with Craig Roberts (who wrote JFK: The Dead Witnesses along with John Armstrong) he told me that at one point he had confirmed the story of the death of Jack Zangretti, who was the "owner or operator" of the Red Lobster, (Tim, I do not think it was the chain; Sorry, I couldn't resist) as well as the fact that the Red Lobster did in fact exist) with the local Sheriff's office . That was all the information that I was able to confirm. He is currently devoting his time to other non-JFK projects. How difficult would it be to obtain a copy of the trial transcript of the Sinatra kidnapping case, it would be very compelling to see if the prosecution ever asked Keenan, Amsler and Irwin if they knew or had been in contact with Zangretti, or "others unknown." Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted December 6, 2005 Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 Robert wrote: I have recently been in contact with Craig Roberts (who wrote JFK: The Dead Witnesses along with John Armstrong) he told me that at one point he had confirmed the story of the death of Jack Zangretti, who was the "owner or operator" of the Red Lobster, (Tim, I do not think it was the chain; Sorry, I couldn't resist) as well as the fact that the Red Lobster did in fact exist) with the local Sheriff's office . That was all the information that I was able to confirm. He is currently devoting his time to other non-JFK projects. How difficult would it be to obtain a copy of the trial transcript of the Sinatra kidnapping case, it would be very compelling to see if the prosecution ever asked Keenan, Amsler and Irwin if they knew or had been in contact with Zangretti, or "others unknown." Anyone? Robert, sorry, but I do not understand. Do you believe there was a connection between Zangretti and the kidnapping of Sinatra, Jr? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I remember suspecting at the time that the kidnapping of Frank Jr. was a publicity stunt. But if it was designed to help Frank Jr.'s career, it didn't work. I read a few years ago that Frank Jr. wound up as his father's musical director, and constantly had to endure his father's belittling public comments. ("I had you kidnapped for nothing.") The thought never entered my mind that the kidnapping had anything to do with the JFK assassination. (How could Oswald, who was dead, have Frank Jr. kidnapped?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted December 6, 2005 Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 (edited) Ron, you thought Oswald did it? I thought you were probably conspiracy-minded since at least 10:30 a.m. on November 24, 1963! Edited December 6, 2005 by Tim Gratz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Here's an overview of what really happened with Junor... http://www.surfinagain.com/archives6.htm :::: SuRFiN' AGAIN :::: Ironically, a book I found on the FBI gave the address of the house used in the kidnapping, and it was on Masen street in the West San Fernando Valley, maybe 5 miles from my apartment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted December 6, 2005 Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 (edited) Pat, these coincidences are strange indeed. As I stated before, my previous residence was one house away from the house of George Faraldo, whose story as reported in Fonzi's "The Last Investigation" resparked my interest in the assassination. And I now live on the same street that Cesar Diosdado did (albeit about 4 blocks away). Fascinating article, by the way! Edited December 6, 2005 by Tim Gratz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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