FBI, the mob, and 9/11

[Kevin M. West]

How do you determine that there isn't enough debris without knowing the depth of the debris pile? All you can see in any of the photos is the top.

[Matthew Lewis]

Did the building have any open atrium spaces? Or did each floor cover the entire area?

It had no atrium. It was a boring 'box' type office building with several sub-basements. In the lower one, was a huge vault - aprox. 15 x 15 meters - used by the various government offices in WTC-7, as well as for some gold from some bank/investment companies. After the 'dust cleared' it had a square 'hole' to the bottom; and a few days later the vault was entered and found to have been cleared-out before the attack....[see post 10 above]

Is there a floor plan somewhere that shows that? The picture, while interesting, does not show one way or the other. Thanks.

[Jack White]

For several hours I have been trying to understand the underground parking at the WTC.

I found several interesting bits of information, none complete...

...the entire WEC Plaza had underground levels of varying depth

...the "bathtub" area had six levels covering 70 percent of the WTC area

...the remaining 30 percent had fewer (unspecified) levels (under 4 and 5)

...each building had its own basements which did not go the full six levels of the tub

...subway and a mall were in one of the basements

...the REST OF THE UNDERGROUND AREA WAS FOR PARKING thousands of cars.

Knowing that the whole area was a vast parking garage is interesting because IN NO

PHOTOS OF THE CLEANUP have I seen crushed cars being removed from the

bathtub.

Jack

PS. I remember reading, but could not find again, that Building Six had two

basement levels.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Jack White

[Jack White]

This photo shows the entrance to the underground parking garage under Building Six.

Jack

[Jack White]

Somebody who understands astronomy and geography please explain this.

[Kevin M. West]

Somebody who understands astronomy and geography please explain this.

The north face of WTC1 looks poorly photoshopped in the 'full sun' picture. Can you share the source for that one?

[Len Colby]

Somebody who understands astronomy and geography please explain this.

I am glad Jack is bringing up the topic of sun direction and shadows at GZ on 9/11 because he has yet to explain why he keeps claiming that a photo which shows direct sunlight on the western faces of buildings there was taken in the morningyears after his error was pointed out to him.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14642

Edited August 15, 2009 by Len Colby

[Len Colby]

P.S. A pre-emptive reply to a coming slam from the Borg that he killed his wife. I'll bet my life on the fact that those who pulled-off 911 killed her (or forced her suicide) and blamed it on him - a common tactic, and not to be taken seriously, by those who have studied the history of the Secret Government. Whistleblowers always face such. Power never conceeds anything without a fight - and they kill to protect their power, privilege and MONEY!

The problem with such fantastic speculation is that not even Sonenfeld says this and he didn’t start “blowing the whistle” until well AFTER 9/11, his arrest and even his release. In fact it only started AFTER he was arrested in Argentina on an extradition warrant in 2004. Basic logic dictates cause comes 1st then effect not the other way round

If there was a conspiracy against him it involved the original prosecutor (a liberal Democrat now governor), the new prosecutor (also a Democrat) the Denver police, the coroner, his ex-wife’s family and friends at a time when no one had motive because he hadn’t said anything.

Nancy Sonnefeld seems to have been in on it too because she self imposed bruises no her body to simulate a struggle, shot herself in the back of her head and then crawled six feet from where the gun was. Heck even Kurt was in on it because he had sex with other women and smoke heroin during their Thanksgiving trip to Thailand triggering their crisis and her ultimatum to him to leave the house by January 1, the day she died.

The sordid affair was discussed in more detail here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14492

And now surprise surprise, the photos and videos he was supposedly framed over don't show anything special.

[Len Colby]

Everybody knows that if you question US authority you will have problems in some way or another. At minimum you will be discredited and dehumanized. Most likely you'll find yourself indicted for something completely unrelated, like tax evasion -- or something even worse, as in my case.

Cause has to come BEFORE effect. Sonnenfeld’s wife’s death and him being arrested for it (both on January 1 2002 can not have been caused by his “question[ing] US authority” which did not begin until late 2004 AFTER he was arrested on an extradition warrant. The man is a shameless xxxx as I documented in the other thread he said the prosecutors were sure he was innocent when they said the exact opposite.

Look at what happened to Secret Service whistle-blower Abraham Bolden, for example, or to chess master Bobby Fischer after he showed his disdain for the US. There are countless other examples. In the past I asked friends and associates to speak out for me to counter all the lies being planted in the media, and all of them were terrified as to the ramifications to themselves and their families. - Kurt Sonnenfeld

Bizzare that he would chose to compare himself to the viciously anti-Semitic Holocaust denier Bobby Fisher

Kurt Sonnenfeld: What happened with Building 7 is incredibly suspicious. I have video that shows how curiously small the rubble pile was, and how the buildings to either side were untouched by Building Seven when it collapsed.It had not been hit by an airplane; it had suffered only minor injuries when the Twin Towers collapsed, and there were only small fires on a couple of floors.

Of course he is never going to release this video because he is xxxx and it doesn't exist or doesn't show what he claims. He would have us believe the numerous firemen who said the south side of the building was seriously damaged and had several floors fully involved lied.

The part about the building's rubble not touching the surrounding buildings is another lie

[Len Colby]

Jack, others, I just found this photo and it was labeled as the parking structure under WTC6 having survived. Perhaps the two sublevels you have in your photo would fit above these.

Thanks for posting those they prove that Jack’s claim that 6 WTC’s basement had only 2 levels was incorrect and thus his assumption their was too little debris was baseless. Essentially a 14 story structure was crushed down in 4 stories, about right when buildings are about 90 airspace and 6’s outer walls for the most part remained standing

[Jack White]

I read that WTC6 had TWO BASEMENT levels. Apparently there were FOUR PARKING LEVELS below the

building basements. The building did not have six basement levels.

Jack

Edited August 17, 2009 by Jack White

[Len Colby]

Splitting hairs now aren't we Jack? What ever you want to call them there were 6 subterranean levels below 6 WTC therefore you study was based on a false premise. There potentially were 4 levels of debris down from what you see on the surface.

In any case since you don't seem to remember where you read this there is no way the judge the reliability of your "source"

[Len Colby]

Jack, others, I just found this photo and it was labeled as the parking structure under WTC6 having survived. Perhaps the two sublevels you have in your photo would fit above these.

Thanks for posting those they prove that Jack's claim that 6 WTC's basement had only 2 levels was incorrect and thus his assumption their was too little debris was baseless. Essentially a 14 story structure was crushed down in 4 stories, about right when buildings are about 90 airspace and 6's outer walls for the most part remained standing

No! If it is WTC6 [how it was labeled, but not 100% sure]

Yes it's correctly labeled note WFC 3 in the background

parking structure, it is missing one or two sublevels and the photo Jack posted would show those top two sublevels; and his photo still shows too little debris to account for the collapsed floors, IMO - possibly too little debris to even account for the floor collapses. These photos show that the lower levels didn't collaspe nor were they breached

The photos were obviously taken after the clean up process had begun but they seem to show that a large part (but not all) of 6's basement floors were destroyed. Note that the building extended furthur south than WFC 3 (14)

Edited August 18, 2009 by Len Colby

[Len Colby]

Another matter carefully 'ignored' by the debunkers is the report by Sonnenfeld that the huge vault - somewhere in or near the parking garage under WTC6 had been emptied just prior to the 'surprise events' of 9-11. All they do is try character assassination on him - and old and sick tactic - blame the victim - kill the messenger - silence the whistleblower.

What eve one thinks of him it boils down to the unsubstantiated speculation of a single person. He says the vault was empty and presumes it must have been emptied before the attacks but the North Tower only collapsed 102 minutes after it was hit by flight 11 which gave of time to remove things from the vault and he didn’t get to the area till several days later. Though he claims to have damming footage and photos he has yet to release any that contradicts the “official” explanation.

Even if one refuses to accept in spite of all the evidence that he killed his wife he’s a xxxx. He said “The prosecution was 100% sure of my innocence before requesting the dismissal of charge” but as I documented in the other thread they said the exact opposite publicly. He also lied about being at GZ on 9/11. He could not have made it there by then.

Another part of his story that doesn’t add up is that he insinuates that FEMA his employer were in on the attack but as of the time of his arrest almost 3 months after the attacks they had not asked for his photos and footage. Though he gave no indication he was suspicious before his arrest he claims the ransacked his home and office but were unable to find them.

He has videos and photos he'll be releasing soon

He’s been saying that for 4 years and has yet to release anything damning.

So Peter of all those photos of his you downloaded did you find anything that disproves the "official" version? Don't feel bad because apparently no other truthers have because I've seen mention of it. The only damning images he claims to have are the vault, airplane wheels with unmelted tires and the 7 WTC rubble pile but images of the latter have been widely distributed and prove nothing

[Len Colby]

Kurt Sonnenfeld: What happened with Building 7 is incredibly suspicious. I have video that shows how curiously small the rubble pile was, and how the buildings to either side were untouched by Building Seven when it collapsed.

Damage to 30 West Broadway

Damage to the Verizon Building

Either he's

a) a xxxx

is extremely unobservant

c) has a poor memory

In any case is completely unreliable