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The Dallas Cinema Associates Film


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Veteran researchers of the Kennedy Assassination are no doubt familiar with the film produced by Dallas Cinema Associates concerning the assassination of Pres. Kennedy. It is basically a 16 mm film produced by Dallas Cinema Associates, Inc., Dallas, 1964. 175 feet, 8720 frames, 12 minute

composite of 18 Dallas amateurs' edited films of the motorcade and the assassination and immediate aftermath. It was sold commercially first by the amateur group and then through Wolper Productions, Inc., Dallas. The FBI refused the edited film and ignored the original films.

The Warren Commission also ignored it.

After viewing it this morning I can see why, the very last frame of the film shows a gathering of seven individuals 'with a rifle in their midst'; three of them are Dallas Police Officers, two appear to be Dallas Law Enforcement officers, perhaps sheriffs's wearing Stetson's, one is a man in a suit partially bald on top (back to the camera) and the last individual is holding the rifle in his right hand, he is wearing one of those 'golfing caps, (similar to the ones Payne Stewart is known to wear).

What makes this image so interesting?

The rifle in the midst of the law enforcement officers in front of the Texas School Book Depository, clearly does not have a scope!

One could surmise that is the reason the film was buried until decades after the assassination.

I would request anyone on the Forum that has the means to isolate the last frame of this video to post a jpg, gif image so that we can all look at it. Unfortunately, I do not have the means to do this.

An assenting view

From that famous 'crackpot' Jim Garrison's 'On the Trail of the Assassins'

pages 98 & 99

(You know the only one whoever indicted anyone for the Kennedy Assassination, besides that 'infamous communist Lee Oswald.')

"A great deal of confusion surrounded this second-rate Italian rifle because there was compelling evidence that it was not the weapon found in the assassin's lair shortly after the assassination. Officer Seymour Weitzman, part of the Dallas police search team, later described the discovery of the rifle on the afternoon of November 22. He stated that it had been so well hidden under boxes of books that the officers stumbled over it many times before they found it. Officer Weitzman, who had an engineering degree and also operated a sporting goods store, was recognized as an authority on weapons. Consequently, Dallas Homicide Chief Will Fritz, who was on the scene, asked him the make of the rifle. Weitzman identified it as a 7.65 Mauser, a highly accurate German-made weapon. Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig was also there and later recalled the word "Mauser" inscribed in the metal of the gun. And Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone executed a sworn affidavit in which he described the rifle as a Mauser. As late as midnight of November 22, Dallas District Attorney Henry Wade told the media that the weapon found was a Mauser.

There is, of course, a significant difference between a first-class Mauser and a cheap mail-order Mannlicher-Carcano. It should have been simple to know which weapon had been found. However, to complicate the issue, three empty cartridges from a Mannlicher-Carcano were found in the same room as the Mauser. They were near the easternmost sixth-floor window, close together and almost parallel to each other. Although this arrangement made them easy to find, it defied what any experienced user of rifles knows: that when a rifle is fired, the cartridge is flung violently away. A neat distribution pattern of cartridges like the one found on the sixth floor of the Depository is virtually impossible. It strongly suggested to me that the cartridges were never fired from the assassin's lair but were planted near the window, presumably having been fired earlier elsewhere, so that bullet fragments found in the President's limousine could be described as having come from the Carcano.

There were other problems with the story that the Mannlicher-Carcano had been the murder weapon. For instance, no ammunition clip was ever found. The clip is the device that feeds the cartridges into the rifle's firing chamber. Without such a clip, the cartridges have to be loaded by hand, making fast shooting such as Oswald was alleged to have done impossible. The Warren Commission skirted this problem by never confronting that fact.

Complicating the matter even further, the Mannlicher-Carcano triumphantly produced as the "assassin's rifle" was found to have a badly misaligned sight. So badly was the sight out of line with the barrel that an adjustment was necessary before government riflemen could complete their test firing. Even so, no rifle expert was ever able to duplicate the feat the government attributed to Lee Oswald.

Despite these problems, when the smoke cleared and all the law enforcement authorities in Dallas had their stories duly in order, the official position was that the rifle found on the sixth floor of the Depository was the Mannlicher-Carcano, which allegedly was linked to Oswald under an alias, and not the Mauser, which disappeared forever shortly after it reached the hands of Captain Fritz.

But even this revision of the official story did not explain the third rifle. A film taken by Dallas Cinema Associates, an independent film company, showed a scene of the Book Depository shortly after the assassination. Police officers on the fire escape were bringing down a rifle from the roof above the sixth floor with the tender care you might give an infant. When the policemen reached the ground, a high-ranking officer held the rifle high for everyone to see. The camera zoomed in for a close-up. Beneath the picture was the legend, "The Assassin's Rifle." When I saw the film, I noted that this rifle had no sight mounted on it. Thus it could not have been either the Carcano or the vanished Mauser, both of which had sights.

I was not surprised to find that this third rifle, like the Mauser, had disappeared. But its existence confirmed my hypothesis that Lee Oswald could not have killed John Kennedy as the American public had been told. Setting aside the evidence of two other weapons on the scene, the incredibly accurate shooting of an incredibly inaccurate rifle within an impossible time frame was merely the beginning of the feat we were asked to believe Oswald had accomplished."

Thought for the Day:

Maybe Seymour Weitzman had good reason for winding up with a 'mental condition.'

One thing the Posner's and the McAdams of the world will not mention when doing their hatchet jobs on people who are dead and can't defend themselves from the garve is that the 'Mauser' story is a great example of the old adage that 'history is written by the winners.'

See

http://www.geocities.com/whiskey99a/carcano.html

Edited by Robert Howard
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Is this the one? If so I think this frame shows more of the rifle than any of the others, which is not very much perhaps. I'll do a blowup and post shortly.

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Is this the one? If so I think this frame shows more of the rifle than any of the others, which is not very much perhaps. I'll do a blowup and post shortly.

Correct, and great work.

The Robert Groden DVD entitled 'JFK Assassination Films - 2003' has a optically enhanced version, which is simply entitled 'Dallas Cinema Associates' it also has footage from the front of the TSBD, which should be looked at. I was able to view the video of this, using a zoom feature; which is on most DVD remotes. When it is viewed in this manner it fits the description of 'without a doubt'.

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Is this the one? If so I think this frame shows more of the rifle than any of the others, which is not very much perhaps. I'll do a blowup and post shortly.

Correct, and great work.

The Robert Groden DVD entitled 'JFK Assassination Films - 2003' has a optically enhanced version, which is simply entitled 'Dallas Cinema Associates' it also has footage from the front of the TSBD, which should be looked at. I was able to view the video of this, using a zoom feature; which is on most DVD remotes. When it is viewed in this manner it fits the description of 'without a doubt'.

OK, the version I have is from the net and no doubt far below groden dvd standard. And a blowup would not show much of value. I''ve done one but believe me it doesn't add much.

It strikes me though that the rifle is not regarded by the person holding it as 'evidence' (see where it's gripped). I'm not familiar with weapons, probaly Mark and others could make an educated guess as to what it is, it looks like a shotgun to me?

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John Dolva wrote:

[...]

It strikes me though that the rifle is not regarded by the person holding it as 'evidence' (see where it's gripped). I'm not familiar with weapons, probaly Mark and others could make an educated guess as to what it is, it looks like a shotgun to me?

_____________

I've seen other DP photos (can't recall where and what photos) that include uniform Dallas cops carrying shotguns

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John Dolva wrote:

"It strikes me though that the rifle is not regarded by the person holding it as 'evidence.' "

Yes John, that is exactly the point. The portion of the Dallas Cinema Associates film in question, was filmed by Ernest C Mentesana. I am afraid this is going to be one of those, 'if you don't have the video, you can't really grasp the impact' type of situations. It is very clear when watching the entire Mentesana video, that they are attentively viewing the rifle, the balding individual with his back to the camera, walks up and does nothing but look at the gun, (I do not presume to know anything regarding conversation as the film has no audio track), but this is not 'some policemen standing around talking while one is holding a rifle, the rifle in the film is clearly what they are focusing on.'

I am very sure that the 'rifle' was not regarding it as evidence, as supported by assertions that it disappeared, and contradicted the cover story.

Somewhere, I believe there is footage of the rifle being lowered from the top of the Depository without a scope, I stipulate that to think that all of the confusion over the rifle being identified as a Mauser even through through Saturday's, DA Wade press conference, and a CIA Report referencing the rifle as a Mauser as not intrinsically linked to the fact that a Mauser was found in the TSBD, is naive, if not slow witted.

Edited by Robert Howard
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John Dolva wrote:

"It strikes me though that the rifle is not regarded by the person holding it as 'evidence.' "

Yes John, that is exactly the point. The portion of the Dallas Cinema Associates film in question, was filmed by Ernest C Mentesana. I am afraid this is going to be one of those, 'if you don't have the video, you can't really grasp the impact' type of situations. It is very clear when watching the entire Mentesana video, that they are attentively viewing the rifle, the balding individual with his back to the camera, walks up and does nothing but look at the gun, (I do not presume to know anything regarding conversation as the film has no audio track), but this is not 'some policemen standing around talking while one is holding a rifle, the rifle in the film is clearly what they are focusing on.'

I am very sure that the 'rifle' was not regarding it as evidence, as supported by assertions that it disappeared, and contradicted the cover story.

Somewhere, I believe there is footage of the rifle being lowered from the top of the Depository without a scope, I stipulate that to think that all of the confusion over the rifle being identified as a Mauser even through through Saturday's, DA Wade press conference, and a CIA Report referencing the rifle as a Mauser as not intrinsically linked to the fact that a Mauser was found in the TSBD, is naive, if not slow witted.

OK, Robert, I got you.

It would be good to work this one out. There is no doubt that there are serious issues around rifles found.

((As 'devils advocate': I already commented elsewhere on a 'phenomenon' of lingering images that enables movies to be seen as a smooth movement rather than the flicker that they are. The mention of mentesena meant I could view the mentesena version I have and there are some more frames in it than in the DCA version I have.

prior to the image with the man holding the rifle is a series of frames where there is little movement and focusing on two police on the fire escape. In the version I have there is no rifle shown. Then the next frames are the ones showing the men with the rifle where the rifle appears where the policemen on the fire escape just were. Then on the extra few frames in the mentesena I have this scene is replaced by a lingering focus on the daltex fire escape. Taken alltogether this report of a rifle, police and fire escape, could be an example of this lingering image effect.

It may not be so, of course.))

One thing I notice is that as the man walks up to look at the rifle the man with the rifle is following him with his head and also raises the rifle off his shoulder a bit, so yes the rifle may very well have been a focus here.

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I apologize for the confusion, I did not know when I started this thread that the excerpt from the Dallas Cinema Associates film, was taken from the Ernest C. "Mentesana Film." Had I known I would have stipulated that initially. I would also remind readers of comments made by Lee Harvey Oswald himself after he was arrested during one of the interrogations.

" I observed a rifle in the Texas School Book Depository where I work, on Nov. 20, 1963. . . . Mr. Roy Truly, the supervisor, displayed the rifle to individuals in his office on the first floor. . . "

Oswald was referring to two rifles purchased by Warren Caster which are mentioned in the Warren Commission Testimony of William H. Shelley.

"Mr. Ball.

Do you recall seeing a couple of guns in the Texas School Book Depository Building on the 20th of November 1963?

Mr. Shelley.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Where?

Mr. Shelley.

Just outside Mr. Truly's office on the will-call counter.

Mr. Ball.

And how did they get there?

Mr. Shelley.

Mr. Warren Caster had just purchased them and brought them in and stopped by to see us.

Mr. Ball.

Did you handle the guns?

Mr. Shelley.

I held the .22.

Mr. Ball.

And was there another make of gun too---there was, wasn't there?

Mr. Shelley.

Yes; I believe there was a .30-06 Mauser that had been converted. It was a foreign make converted to a .30-06."

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Robert, I have PM from Gary stating that this particular firearm in this frame is a shotgun, not a rifle. Apparently a fellow named Sprague has established this through an interview with Mentesena.

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Guest Stephen Turner

Robert, John. I think you will find that the policeman is holding a Remington 870 shotgun. Same make, and model as one of the Cops in the "Tramps" photo's FWIW Steve.

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