Yellow Marks

[John Dolva]

I haven't seen it mentioned so i'll just log it as a thought.: it may be that these markings stand out most and do their intended work when it is dark and wet. Color and paint type choosen perhaps to maximise streetlamp and car headlights reflections. So one neeed not necessarily see all of the marking in order to be alerted to the road edge. A 'glimmer' reflected onto wet road could be sufficient. When I drove on norwegian winter roads some years back that at times was all that was available for guidance.

[Trent Adams]

Trent,

Welcome to the forum -- and what a great post to start with! Thank you for sharing that very sensible, level-headed explanation. I think it is valuable to explore the reasonable before launching into wild speculation.

It should be noted that since these painted areas are common, this does not *exclude* their use as a sighting aid, as described by Thomas Purvis. It does seem to reduce their existence, though, to a more "serendipitous" event for the shooters than one specifically designed for it -- if, in fact, they factored at all into the shooting scenario.

Thanks Frank! I believe I will enjoy contributing to the Forum and learning from others also experienced in the subject matter.

I completely agree that it does not exclude anything. Like you, I would accept the use of markers as a possiblility, and one of the reasons I posed the possibility in my original post:

This one is a little more serious, and takes into account that the marks were already there. I ask this of Tom, as he seems to be a true expert in this area. Instead of creating the marks to identify and reference where the shooters established the "kill zone", is it likely that they could have decided, indentified and/or referenced the existing marks for areas of the "kill zone"?

I guess this just seems more plausible to me, because I don't see the advantage to any possible assassin (applies to a lone shooter or multiple shooters) to advertise with long yellow marks on the curb, that something "is different" in Dealey Plaza. Even any potential assassin(s) couldn't have believed at the time that the SS, FBI, DPD or anybody else wouldn't question the sudden appearance of long yellow marks along the curb of the President's motorcade route.

Thanks again Frank, and I really appreciate your welcome and comments.

Trent

[Thomas H. Purvis]

I saw this thread while waiting for my registration to be complete, and thought I would add my observations regarding this topic.

Having grown up and traveled the DFW metroplex for the past 30 years, these type of markers have been common, especially in Dallas and its suburbs. (No, I was not around at the time of the assassination, so I am not claiming ANY knowledge regarding these particular marks at that particular time...just fyi)

Throughout Dallas, one will notice these types of markings/signs/indicators where roadways begin a significant change of direction, or curve, in the roadway. Obviously, these are there as to catch the attention of a driver....just in case they aren't paying attention as they should. Since the 70's, I have seen these in many different forms:

- paint on curbs

- reflective plastic in the street, on the curb, on a cement/metal guardrail (aka "city titties")

- actual signs with directive arrows (like >)

These are in addition to any "Curve Ahead" type warning signage. I have seen paint on the curb progress from yellow paint, to relective yellow paint, to reflective yellow and black striped paint, to reflective yellow with black >'s painted in the yellow; to reflective white and black in the same manners.

Since we are primarily concerned with this paint on the curb, I won't list all the different progressions of "city titties" or actual signage. However, I believe that these are indeed the same type "warning" stripes as I have seen, but that's just my personal belief based on my personal experience. However, some in this thread have raised some points/issues that I will address below:

The Paint Marks are Evenly Spaced Out

I would expect this to be the case if the person(s) who performed the work had some standards and pride in their work. This seems rather innocuous to me.

No Marks at the Beginning of Elm and Only on the South Side of Elm

Traveling west on Elm (prior to reaching Houston) is a straight shot into the eventual "unnatural" curvature in the "killing zone". Due to the fact that a reduction in speed might not be necessary if traveling in this manner, it becomes more imperative that some type of "warning" be placed when the DRIVER of a vehicle is facing straight ahead, can notice them. Turning on to Elm from Houston is a benefit of not to be traveling at a greater rate of speed after the turn, but the driver will still end up in the same position eventually. Painting marks on the curb all the way from Houston down Elm is not necessary and would not be noticed by a driver, so that is why they would not be necessary until further down the street. It is only at the point where the driver is facing straight ahead and the curve puts the curb directly in front of him/her, is it beneficial to have the warning stripes begin.

As far as the stripes on being on the south side of Elm, that is the only place on Elm street that they would be necessary. There would be no reason to have any on the North side of Elm, as the curb does not ever cross in front of the driver's line of sight.

No Marks Noticed on Main or Commerce Streets

Main Street is straight and would have no reason to have these marks. Commerce is curved like Elm, and if there would be any painted marks on Commerce, they would only be necessary on the North side of the street.

Painted Marks were Necessary Due to Poor Lighting

Up until this day, where lighting is sufficient, they still use these type of markings around the Dallas area. I'll try to verify what is there now, if anything....I honestly don't remember right now. However, lighting could have been an issue then, but even now there are markers in areas where lighting is definitely sufficient.

Paint was Fresh on Nov. 22, 1963

I have no idea. It is possible that Dallas tried to make preparations for a visit by the President and had these painted prior to his visit. In my experience, it is not necessary for paint to be wet to create a transfer to a shoe, if it is on cement. When I worked for the airline, we had many things painted with yellow relective traffic paint, both metal and concrete items. If I accidentally hit a metal pole with my shoe, there was not transfer of paint. If I accidentally hit a painted concrete item, you bet I got a paint on my black or brown shoes. I'm not saying that the paint wasn't wet at the time that she got paint on her shoes, I'm just saying it didn't necessarily have to be wet to scuff her shoe and get a paint transfer on the shoe.

Food for Thought

I guess that it's possible that the marks were created by the shooters as reference points in the kill zone, and part of the coverup was to keep using these for the next 40 years, so as to claim that these were just innocent marks that had always been there. Thank goodness for "them", the shooter's paint marks were in such a location that they could create a viable explanation for these, by saying that they are only located for a curve in the street. That's a good bit of luck there! (Yes, I am being a little sarcastic on this one)

This one is a little more serious, and takes into account that the marks were already there. I ask this of Tom, as he seems to be a true expert in this area. Instead of creating the marks to identify and reference where the shooters established the "kill zone", is it likely that they could have decided, indentified and/or referenced the existing marks for areas of the "kill zone"?

I guess this just seems more plausible to me, because I don't see the advantage to any possible assassin (applies to a lone shooter or multiple shooters) to advertise with long yellow marks on the curb, that something "is different" in Dealey Plaza. Even any potential assassin(s) couldn't have believed at the time that the SS, FBI, DPD or anybody else wouldn't question the sudden appearance of long yellow marks along the curb of the President's motorcade route.

Additionally, throughout the years, we have had people come forward with all sorts of claims. This could be people claiming to see people walking up the grass with a rifle hours before the President was to arrive, or every possibility under the sun of who could have shot the President. To this day, I have not ever heard ANYBODY claim they saw anybody painting the curb on Elm the day of or the day before the assassination. Additionally, I have never heard any claim that "The Painter's Did It", or anything silly like that. I KNOW that is not what anybody on this thread is claiming, but it just goes to what I see as viable toward this possibility.

Honestly, I think this is a great thread because it is an area that deserves to be explored and ALL areas need to be evaluated, in my opinion. I believe that is all part of the "leave no stone left unturned".

OT: I completely agree with Tom's comments regarding target acquisition through a scope. I am not claiming any expertise in this area, but I am familiar with firing a rifle with and without a scope. I always found it more difficult to use a scope to shoot quickly, than to not use it. Personally, if I had only one shot, I would definitely use a scope. If I was firing multiple shots quickly (or figured I would be), I would definitely not be trying to spot targets through a scope each time. But that's just my novice experience talking.

The yellow marks on the street are somewhat of an "extenuating" circumstance, at best.

That the first shot to the head of JFK occurred just after having passed one of these stripes, (Z313) & that a second shot to the head occurred just as he approached another of these stripes (down by Altgens position), further makes them suspect.

That LHO still had one remaining round, and only one round, and that additional yellow stripes existed virtually to the overpass, also add to the convenience.

IF, as has been indicated, these stripes just received a new coating of paint, this again adds suspicion.

A sniper locates natural reference items within his zone, and determines the distances from his firing point(s) to these natural landmarks. These may be trees; fences; structures; rocks; etc.

With a normally "prepared chart", he has the exact range to any specific landmark, and therefore knows the exact range to target.

These "landmarks" also provide an aid in target acquisition as the landmark is usually more readily, initially found in the scope, and then the target is found in reference to it's landmark.

Irrelevant as to whether pre-existing, or newly painted, the yellow marks would have served as the stated "range markers" as well as a landmark on the curb.

Through a scope, the curb would have been the single most readily found item, with green grass on one side and street on the other.

After acquisition of the curb in the scope, one need only find the yellow mark on the curb, swing the aiming point out to center of street, and thus await the target to arrive within the scope picture.

Far easier than meandering all over the street, staring through a scope, and attempting to locate the target.

Since the subject of the yellow marks had only been brought out once before, (that I know of), and this was done by myself long ago, I felt that it was definitely an item which warranted complete and further review.

And since no one has ever told any of the "re-enactment" shooters that there were highly sufficient "range markers" on the playing field, (irrelevant as to pre-existing or purposely made), it would most certainly be an item that a professional shooter would want to know.

In that regards, I personally have no doubt that the last shot was not fired through the scope.

The "bang-bang" rapid fire from shot# 2 to #3 is not indicative of target acquisition and firing through a scope with a bolt action rifle.

That however does not mean that the yellow marks were still not visible from the sixth floor of the TSDB, and may or may not have served some purpose in the shooting.