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Having recently received a communication from Gary Mack, as regards the "Yellow Marks" on the street curb of Elm St., I am posting my reply to Mr. Mack in this regards.

Mr. Mack has indicated that this "yellow mark" on the curb was a policy throughout Dallas, and since I have neither resided there, nor fully researched the history and background of either the "Yellow Marks" or for that matter, the "Yellow Rose of Texas", then this is one of those items which will ultimately have to be resolved by additional time; research; and history.

In addition to the "warning" usage, Mr. Mack has indicated that Dealy Plaza suffered from some form of poor lighting and this was also potentially the reasoning for the yellow marks.

Again, perhaps true, however, Dealy Plaza had street light evenly spaced along the Zapruder side of the street.

Therefore, if the street were inadequately lighted, it would seem then that all of Dallas was inadequately lighted, since the street lights are a part of the Street Department's responsibilities.

Lastly, with the now provided information (Z-437) relative to the yellow marks extending virtually to where Elm St. disappears from view and goes under the RR Overpass, this last mark is located in an area of Elm St. which is almost, absolutely straight, and as anyone who has been there knows, the road is virtually straight through/under the overpass.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z437.jpg

For all to read, and hopefully someone to followup on, my response to Mr. Mack in regards to the yellow curb marks is provided.

Hopefully, someone may take the time and effort to search Dallas historical information and provide us all with more of the "factual" evidence as relates to the painting of yellow marks onto street curbs in Dallas.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gary;

I had read that, yet, being the "Doubting Thomas", it still does not fully and absolutely verify the reported information..

1. Although this may be the case, the fact that these markers were exactly spaced throughout the "kill zone" in which JFK was hit, makes them somewhat suspect.

2. This is especially so, when there are none of these "yellow marks" on the same exact side of the curb in the first 200 feet of Elm St.

3. However, this too could be insignificant, as perhaps not unlike "warning" signs, the marks were only meant to begin at some given distance prior to encountering the obstacle/traffic impediment.

4. However, in event there is any factual evidence to support that the paint was fresh enough for Jean Hill (or Mary Mooreman) to get it onto their shoe, then it again becomes suspect.

5. And, since there are absolutely none of these marks on the curb on the Zapruder side of the street, then this tends to again cast suspicion on the "convenience" of the yellow marks on the grassy area side of the street.

Was there no concern as regards alerting drivers in the right hand lane as to the approaching curve and where the street curb was.

6. And, the added fact that JFK was struck in the head at Z313, immediately after passing the first of these yellow marks, and:

7. That the shooter, for whatever reason, waited from the ineffective first shot, some 5.8 to 5.9 seconds until such time as JFK fully approached the first yellow mark on the curb and then took the Z313 head shot.

8. (We will let history ultimately judge this one), JFK was again struck by the last/third/final shot just as he approached the second of these yellow marks, down by Mr. Altgens position, and:

9. That LHO/aka the shooter had an additional chambered round available for usage along with any of the subsequent yellow marks, but obviously could not take the shot due to Jackie on the trunck and Hill on the Bumper,

10. And although I have had far better things to do, verification from "old timer's" who have worked for the street department, and/or some City of Dallas documented procedure as regards the painting of such marks, would go far in regards to elimination of a necessary and required "conspiracy" to get these marks painted, in the location where they were.

11. And, whether placed as conspiracy, or there by City Mandate, the yellow marks nevertheless provide the necessary reference points as stated, and related to "Range Markers".

Any "shooter" will verify this, and as any sniper should, if questioned, state that:

They utilize existing items for their reference range markers.

Kind of difficult, in the sniper world, to paint yellow marks, and or drive stakes with flagging into the ground, and expect the target to stand beside them for you.

As long as the City of Dallas has been around, it is quite unlikely that the Street Department merely went around painting these yellow marks without some form of directive. Therefore, some form of documentation would exist to demonstrate that this was a "standard policy" and that such marks were evident throughout Dallas prior to 11/22/63.

And, as many historical photographs as must exist of Dallas, and it's city streets, then certainly, someone can, if desired, find a pre-11/22/63 photo which would serve to demonsrate this policy was in existence.

Lastly, Dealy Plaza, as well as virtually all of Elm St. had street lights, which is far more than many areas, and therefore if inadequate lighting existed, it was due to poor light bulbs, not lack of lighting facilities.

Rest assured, I can accept that the painting of yellow marks on the Elm St. curb could have been a completely innocuous event.

However, I also recognize that this subject still has many absolutely unanswered and unverified questions, and, that these marks would/could have served well for the stated "range markers"/reference points as is need in rapid fire target acquisition utilizing either a scope or the standard sights on a rifle.

Perhaps Mr. Speer will share this information with his associates, and we can further examine the potential usefullness of such marks down Elm St.

Lastly, as a final note, I find it also somewhat convenient that, according to available information, that LHO was called by the Texas Employment (Unemployment) office and offered a position with the Dallas Street Department, shortly prior to the assassination.

However, he had, according to record, already secured the TSDB position, and thus did not go to work for the Dallas Street Department.

Is that not so?

Thanks;

Tom

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Tom...good reply. However, it was Beverly Oliver (Babushka Lady) who

stepped in the wet yellow paint. She had retained the shoes as a souvenir.

When she heard me talk about the yellow curb stripes at a Lancer meeting,

she came to me later and told me about the paint on her shoes. The next

day she brought the shoes and showed them to me and Jim Fetzer. Jim

and I took a shoe to the plaza and compared the paint on the shoe to

the paint on the curb. It was the SAME COLOR. Jim took a sample from

the curb and sent the shoe and the curb paint to a lab for analysis. The

lab could reach no firm conclusion about chemical makeup because the

paint had weathered for 40 years and the traces on the shoe were not

sufficient for chemical analysis. However, I think they verified the color

as being the same. We were disappointed in the scientific analysis, but

we did have proof of sorts. Unknown to Beverly, I had a photo of her

in Dealey Plaza which clearly showed the shoes she was wearing on

November 22. The shoes she brought us with the paint on the sole

were identical in design. See attached.

Jack

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Tom...good reply. However, it was Beverly Oliver (Babushka Lady) who

stepped in the wet yellow paint. She had retained the shoes as a souvenir.

When she heard me talk about the yellow curb stripes at a Lancer meeting,

she came to me later and told me about the paint on her shoes. The next

day she brought the shoes and showed them to me and Jim Fetzer. Jim

and I took a shoe to the plaza and compared the paint on the shoe to

the paint on the curb. It was the SAME COLOR. Jim took a sample from

the curb and sent the shoe and the curb paint to a lab for analysis. The

lab could reach no firm conclusion about chemical makeup because the

paint had weathered for 40 years and the traces on the shoe were not

sufficient for chemical analysis. However, I think they verified the color

as being the same. We were disappointed in the scientific analysis, but

we did have proof of sorts. Unknown to Beverly, I had a photo of her

in Dealey Plaza which clearly showed the shoes she was wearing on

November 22. The shoes she brought us with the paint on the sole

were identical in design. See attached.

Jack

Jack,

I find it highly unlikely that the paint on the preserved shoes would undergo color changes from age at a rate identical to an outdoor curb (subject to rain, oxidation, pollution, physical wear-and-tear, etc) to the point where the color would still be considered the "same." Yeah, perhaps both are still "yellow" but I can't imagine them being spectrally the "same."

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How can you have a qualified opinion when you were not there?

Obviously, the curb paint was weathered and dirty on the outside,

and the paint on the shoe was pristine. But when Fetzer took his

pocket knife and pried up some chips from the curb paint, the

UNDERNEATH COLOR EXPOSED looked like an identical color to us.

Unfortunately for history, Beverly had tried to clean the paint off

of the shoes. The small smudges remaining were clearly yellow

matching the curb paint, but not sufficent enough for the lab to

obtain a sample.

Why comment on something about which you have no knowledge?

Jack

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Tom...good reply. However, it was Beverly Oliver (Babushka Lady) who

stepped in the wet yellow paint. She had retained the shoes as a souvenir.

When she heard me talk about the yellow curb stripes at a Lancer meeting,

she came to me later and told me about the paint on her shoes. The next

day she brought the shoes and showed them to me and Jim Fetzer. Jim

and I took a shoe to the plaza and compared the paint on the shoe to

the paint on the curb. It was the SAME COLOR. Jim took a sample from

the curb and sent the shoe and the curb paint to a lab for analysis. The

lab could reach no firm conclusion about chemical makeup because the

paint had weathered for 40 years and the traces on the shoe were not

sufficient for chemical analysis. However, I think they verified the color

as being the same. We were disappointed in the scientific analysis, but

we did have proof of sorts. Unknown to Beverly, I had a photo of her

in Dealey Plaza which clearly showed the shoes she was wearing on

November 22. The shoes she brought us with the paint on the sole

were identical in design. See attached.

Jack

Thanks Jack;

Guess that we can chalk up another error to the "Agent Orange Syndrone".

I knew, in this old memory, that there was someone who claimed to have gotten some of the yellow paint on their shoes, and not unlike many items related to the assassination, this person and those who had reported it, were unaware of the potential significance of freshly painted yellow marks throughout the "Kill Zone" on Elm St.

Does it "prove" conspiracy???----Obviously not! However, not unlike many other aspects of the subject matter, it sure as hell is an extreme example of coincidence, when all aspects are taken into consideration.

Here is the West-Breneman plat which shows the location

of the yellow curb stripes.

Jack

Dedicated to the honor; integrity; and commitment of Mr. Robert West to insure that the WC manipulations of the facts did not go unfound and unreported.

A gentleman by all known standards!

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I guess it would not be too much of a stretch, to think that the council may have re-painted the "yellow markers" in the early hours of the morning since the president was coming that day.

Were there any other reports of people getting paint on there shoes.?

Interestingly enough, Babushka Lady appears to be standing directly in front of the "Yellow curb marker" in this crop from Cancellare.

I would also be interested in knowing about the RED curb markers which were shown in Jacks TSBD image that he posted in another thread.

Edited by Robin Unger
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It is being assumed here that Beverly Oliver was the Babushka Lady. I believe that opinion on this among researchers is far from unanimous.

Jack states that Oliver approached him about yellow paint on her shoes after she heard him talk about the yellow markers. Her shoe evidence would be much more impressive if it had come to light BEFORE Jack said anything about yellow markers.

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It is being assumed here that Beverly Oliver was the Babushka Lady. I believe that opinion on this among researchers is far from unanimous.

Ron.

You will note in my post, that i intentionally did not reffer to Babushka Lady as Beverley Oliver.

I am yet to be convinced that Oliver is Babushka.

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How can you have a qualified opinion when you were not there?

Obviously, the curb paint was weathered and dirty on the outside,

and the paint on the shoe was pristine. But when Fetzer took his

pocket knife and pried up some chips from the curb paint, the

UNDERNEATH COLOR EXPOSED looked like an identical color to us.

Unfortunately for history, Beverly had tried to clean the paint off

of the shoes. The small smudges remaining were clearly yellow

matching the curb paint, but not sufficent enough for the lab to

obtain a sample.

Why comment on something about which you have no knowledge?

Jack

Jack,

Instead of attacking the source of the question, next time post all the bloody relevant information. Otherwise, expect to be questioned. And trust me, I'm perfectly qualified to ask legitimate questions, and plan on continuing to do so. I would expect the same from you had I posted a similar statement.

Thank you for clarifying that.

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About ten years ago I HIGHLIGHTED THE YELLOW STRIPES WITH PIECES OF

YELLOW CARDBOARD taped to the exact lengths so I could photograph them.

I mounted the Z pedestal and shot a panoramic series for study.

Based on this panorama I did studies which showed that the BACKGROUND

in Zapruder was ENLARGED. This was a mistaken conclusion because I later

found that SOMETIME AFTER NOVEMBER 22, SOMEONE HAD LENGTHENED

THE YELLOW STRIPES.

Attached is my study about 3 years ago showing the correct length of the

stripes on 11-22-63. I will follow this by another image showing how much

longer the stripes were later painted.

Jack

About ten years ago I HIGHLIGHTED THE YELLOW STRIPES WITH PIECES OF

YELLOW CARDBOARD taped to the exact lengths so I could photograph them.

I mounted the Z pedestal and shot a panoramic series for study.

Based on this panorama I did studies which showed that the BACKGROUND

in Zapruder was ENLARGED. This was a mistaken conclusion because I later

found that SOMETIME AFTER NOVEMBER 22, SOMEONE HAD LENGTHENED

THE YELLOW STRIPES.

Attached is my study about 3 years ago showing the correct length of the

stripes on 11-22-63. I will follow this by another image showing how much

longer the stripes were later painted.

Jack

Here is a study showing how much length was added at some unknown

time to the original yellow stripes.

Jack

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It is being assumed here that Beverly Oliver was the Babushka Lady. I believe that opinion on this among researchers is far from unanimous.

Jack states that Oliver approached him about yellow paint on her shoes after she heard him talk about the yellow markers. Her shoe evidence would be much more impressive if it had come to light BEFORE Jack said anything about yellow markers.

Why would she come forward IF SHE NEVER KNEW ABOUT THE SIGNIFICANCE

OF THE YELLOW STRIPES? She knew she stepped in wet yellow paint that day,

but had NO REASON to know WHERE or IF it was significant. The shoes had been

in storage for 40 years. Only hearing me MENTION it jogged her memory. It

is absurd to think she would EVER TELL this to anyone, because SHE HAD NO

REASON TO DO SO! The impressive thing is that FORTY YEARS LATER SHE

STILL HAD THE SHOES AND THEY MATCHED PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN OF HER ON

11-22. If you believe she made this story up and went out and found shoes

overnight and smeared yellow paint on the soles, AND THAT THE SHOES MATCHED

ONES IN 40-YEAROLD PHOTOS SHE DID NOT KNOW ABOUT strains credulity.

Jack

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About ten years ago I HIGHLIGHTED THE YELLOW STRIPES WITH PIECES OF

YELLOW CARDBOARD taped to the exact lengths so I could photograph them.

I mounted the Z pedestal and shot a panoramic series for study.

Based on this panorama I did studies which showed that the BACKGROUND

in Zapruder was ENLARGED. This was a mistaken conclusion because I later

found that SOMETIME AFTER NOVEMBER 22, SOMEONE HAD LENGTHENED

THE YELLOW STRIPES.

Attached is my study about 3 years ago showing the correct length of the

stripes on 11-22-63. I will follow this by another image showing how much

longer the stripes were later painted.

Jack

About ten years ago I HIGHLIGHTED THE YELLOW STRIPES WITH PIECES OF

YELLOW CARDBOARD taped to the exact lengths so I could photograph them.

I mounted the Z pedestal and shot a panoramic series for study.

Based on this panorama I did studies which showed that the BACKGROUND

in Zapruder was ENLARGED. This was a mistaken conclusion because I later

found that SOMETIME AFTER NOVEMBER 22, SOMEONE HAD LENGTHENED

THE YELLOW STRIPES.

Attached is my study about 3 years ago showing the correct length of the

stripes on 11-22-63. I will follow this by another image showing how much

longer the stripes were later painted.

Jack

Here is a study showing how much length was added at some unknown

time to the original yellow stripes.

Jack

According to the initial Time/Life survey work of 11/25/63 as well as the Secret Service Work of December 2/3/4 & Survey Plat completed on the 5th, the yellow stripes were three feet long at this period in time.

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I'm not exactly sure what to make of it, but the yellow areas seem damned irregular.

Looking at several films, there don't appear to be marks visible on Main or Commerce. Unless the view of the north side of Elm is blocked at the right times, there also don't appear to be any on the north side, either.

I also noted from the Hughes film that the stoplight post out in front of the TSBD is also painted yellow part way up. Within the limited scope of the films and stills available, this was the only one I noticed painted as such. While this might have been normal procedures, I thought it should be pointed out.

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If you believe she made this story up and went out and found shoes

overnight and smeared yellow paint on the soles, AND THAT THE SHOES MATCHED

ONES IN 40-YEAROLD PHOTOS SHE DID NOT KNOW ABOUT strains credulity.

How do you know Oliver did not know about the photos? I've seen the photos of the Babushka Lady in books, so I assume Oliver has seen them too, since she is the one who claims to BE the Babushka Lady. Why would she even make such a claim if she had not first seen the photos of the person she claims to be (including the shoes she was wearing)?

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