The Men Who Killed Kennedy

[John Geraghty]

The full complement of episodes of Nigel Turners 'The men who killed Kennedy' are available on ebay for about £15.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JFK-THE-MEN-WHO-KILL...1QQcmdZViewItem

I assume they are breaking the law in some way, not that I'm complaining!

John

[Nathaniel Heidenheimer]

I am curious about how forum viewers rate this TV series. I saw it a while back, and remember seeing Thom Hartman in one of the episodes. Recently I have become very suspicious of Mr. Harttman. But it seemed there were other very interesting segments, particularly the one involving the 1965 assassination of a Bethesda Naval emplyee who seemed on the verge of going public.

What do members think of this series as a whole? The reason I ask is I am thinking of buying a copy as a kind of into to the subject for students.

Perhaps you can think of a better DVD to serve a similar introductory purpose?

[Antti Hynonen]

Nathaniel Heidenheimer Posted Today, 01:57 AM

I am curious about how forum viewers rate this TV series. I saw it a while back, and remember seeing Thom Hartman in one of the episodes. Recently I have become very suspicious of Mr. Harttman. But it seemed there were other very interesting segments, particularly the one involving the 1965 assassination of a Bethesda Naval emplyee who seemed on the verge of going public.

What do members think of this series as a whole? The reason I ask is I am thinking of buying a copy as a kind of into to the subject for students.

Perhaps you can think of a better DVD to serve a similar introductory purpose?

Nathaniel, I own copies of the series 1-6 on DVD and can say that as an introduction to various theories, this is a good product. However, the movie JFK (perhaps the director's cut) may be an even better product, I personally enjoyed it at age 19-20 (and still do) when it came out. Usually this movie sparks the intial interest in the subject in a few (particularly in the beginning the political setting and atmosphere of the late 1950's and early 1960's is presented by Martin Sheen, which may be informative to students, and relates to this case), and then as a second set of shows, perhaps the "TMWKK" series 1-6 might be appropriate. For the seasoned researcher, there is not much new stuff.

However, the rare series 1-9, or I should say 7-9 provide a little more detail. The focus is on LBJ's involvement, the medical coverup done during the Andrews (Bethesda) flight from Love Field and on Oswald's lover in New Orleans. Series 7-9 were released in 2003 (40 th anniversary of the assassination). This product was quickly pulled from the market by some LBJ cronies (a lawyer whose name and association I do not recall and Ladybird Johnson) who pressured the history channel to no longer play the series nor to sell the DVD's. Some copies still exist, some are illegal copies. The original 1-9 (or 7-9) series sell for a high price. Series 1-6 is a more reasonable expense.

A separate product is the Robert Groden assassination files (there are two separate DVD's, I can not recall their exact names), which will go into detail in analyzing the Zapruder film and the autopsy photos and related material, viewer discretion advised!

I believe those are the best products available on the market. Others please add if I missed out any.

Edited March 23, 2006 by Antti Hynonen

[John Simkin]

I am curious about how forum viewers rate this TV series. I saw it a while back, and remember seeing Thom Hartman in one of the episodes. Recently I have become very suspicious of Mr. Harttman. But it seemed there were other very interesting segments, particularly the one involving the 1965 assassination of a Bethesda Naval emplyee who seemed on the verge of going public.

What do members think of this series as a whole? The reason I ask is I am thinking of buying a copy as a kind of into to the subject for students.

Perhaps you can think of a better DVD to serve a similar introductory purpose?

Nigel Turner is the producer of the The Men Who Killed Kennedy. Made for the Central Independent Television company in the UK, it started off a two-part documentary broadcast in October, 1988: The Coup d'Etat and The Forces of Darkness. Three more installments were made two years later: The Cover Up, The Patsy and The Witnesses. The sixth episode, The Truth Shall Set You Free, was added in 1995.

These documentaries have been highly controversial. In the documentary broadcast in 1988 Stephen Rivele argued that the assassination of John F. Kennedy had been organized by Antoine Guerini, the Corsican crime boss in Marseilles. According to Rivele, Lucien Sarti fired from behind the wooden fence on the grassy knoll. The first shot was fired from behind and hit Kennedy in the back. The second shot was fired from behind, and hit John Connally. The third shot was fired from in front, and hit Kennedy in the head. The fourth shot was from behind and missed. As well as Sarti, also named Sauveur Pironti and Roger Bocognani as being involved in the killing. However, Pironti and Bocognani both had alibis and Rivele was forced to withdraw the allegation.

In the sixth episode, The Truth Shall Set You Free, May 1995, Daniel Marvin claimed to have been solicited by an agent of the Central Intelligence Agency to "terminate" William Pitzer.

For the 40th anniversary of the assassination of Nigel Turner produced three more installments: The Love Affair, The Smoking Guns and The Guilty Men.

The Love Affair was an account by Judyth Vary Baker of her (at first, unwitting) involvement in an anti-Castro conspiracy. A young woman who had received specialized training in cancer research, she was invited to New Orleans by Alton Ochsner to aid Dr. Mary Sherman in a research project that was being developed to kill Fidel Castro.

In 1963, Judyth met Lee Harvey Oswald and became involved on the clandestine side of the research project. Both had unhappy marriages and were attracted to each other. She and Oswald began working together: they were both hired May 10, 1963, at Reily's Coffee Company, which provided cover jobs for them. Several labs were involved, including a tumor and tissue culture processing mini-lab, at an apartment owned by anti-Castroite Dave Ferrie. Lee Oswald was selected to courier the biological materials to Mexico City, but the project was called off due to Hurricane Flora. Oswald was ordered to Dallas.

Oswald kept in touch with Judyth Vary Baker: they planned to escape to Mexico after his major assignment - his voluntary infiltration of an assassination ring against John F. Kennedy. Oswald believed a highly conservative Texas-sponsored cartel was working with the Mafia and rogue elements of the CIA and the FBI in the plot against Kennedy. He suspected that David Atlee Phillips was his handler. After Kennedy was assassinated, Dave Ferrie called Judyth and told her she was being watched. if she talked, she would die.

This programme was followed by The Smoking Guns and looked at the research carried out by people such as James H. Fetzer, David Mantik, Douglas Weldon, Jack White and Vincent Palamara.

The third programme was called The Guilty Men and looked at the possibility that Lyndon B. Johnson, Malcolm Wallace and Edward A. Clark were involved in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. The programme used evidence from the book by Blood, Money & Power: How LBJ Killed JFK by Barr McClellan. It also used other sources such as the testimony of Madeleine Brown and Billie Sol Estes and the research of Walt Brown, Ed Tatro, Rick Russo, Glen Sample, and Gregory Burnham.

The Guilty Men, probably the best in the series, was immediately banned after pressure from Lady Bird Johnson and Gerald Ford. The same material is covered in Lyle Sardie's documentary, LBJ: A Closer Look (Trans World News Network).

I have mixed feelings about The Men Who Killed Kennedy. The series includes some important interviews. However, each one is far too subjective. You only get evidence for the particular theory being pushed in that video. In this sense, they are more like tabloid journalism than historical accounts.

Other than The Guilty Men, the series lacks a political dimension. For example, none of them look at the connections between the assassination and JFK's foreign policy.

[Dawn Meredith]

I have mixed feelings about The Men Who Killed Kennedy. Other than The Guilty Men, the series lacks a political dimension. For example, none of them look at the connections between the assassination and JFK's foreign policy.

JOhn,

Excellent point. Tho I must say that I loved this entire series just because you never see anything on tv

that isn't part of the cover-up, so I admire Turner a lot for being able to get this entire series on the tube.

That said, someone should contact him about doing some updates focussing on not who killed Kennedy but why. I wonder however, if the HIstory Channel would even still air his work. Arguably the most popular series the HC ever put out (and it was also aired in the US on the Arts and Entertainment channel), they certainly caved on their 40th anniversary additions. Sure glad I taped them.

Dawn

[Ron Ecker]

The venom and determination with which Jack Valenti and the others went after The Guilty Men, successfully having it banned in what is called a free society, clearly indicates that it was pretty damn close to the truth, in fact too close for comfort.

Edited March 24, 2006 by Ron Ecker

[Guest John Gillespie]

The full complement of episodes of Nigel Turners 'The men who killed Kennedy' are available on ebay for about £15.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JFK-THE-MEN-WHO-KILL...1QQcmdZViewItem

I assume they are breaking the law in some way, not that I'm complaining!

John

____________________________

John,

Thanks for that news.

JG

[Jack White]

John Simkin wrote:

"This programme was followed by The Smoking Guns and looked at the research carried out by people such as James H. Fetzer, David Mantik, Douglas Weldon, Jack White and Vincent Palamara. "

John...I do not think this segment was included in the Turner series 1-9. Nigel filmed me

for about 4 hours, but none of this was included in the last three chapters. He spent three

days with John Armstrong filming his Harvey and Lee work, but none was included.

Instead in our place, he used the very dubious sensational allegations of Judyth Baker.

Perhaps you have confused Jim Fetzer's video somehow, in which he discusses what you

mention. It was not in the Turner series that I am aware of.

Can you please clarify?

Jack

[Dave Weaver]

The Guilty Men, probably the best in the series, was immediately banned after pressure from Lady Bird Johnson and Gerald Ford. The same material is covered in Lyle Sardie's documentary, LBJ: A Closer Look (Trans World News Network).

I have mixed feelings about The Men Who Killed Kennedy. The series includes some important interviews. However, each one is far too subjective. You only get evidence for the particular theory being pushed in that video. In this sense, they are more like tabloid journalism than historical accounts.

Other than The Guilty Men, the series lacks a political dimension. For example, none of them look at the connections between the assassination and JFK's foreign policy.

John,

I agree with your opinion, and would like to add a little trivia.

Which assassination story apart from the corsican mob scenario has the following claims at the center

of the story ?

The hit carried out under a mob contract

3 persons directly involved in Dallas

The arriving a week before the hit

The checking out of Dealey Plaza during the week before the hit

A mercury filled bullet

One shooter on the knoll behind the wooden fence

A headshot from the front with another shot almost hitting at the same time from behind

There may be more things they have in common, but I'm too lazy to try to remember.

[Antti Hynonen]

Dave Weaver Posted Mar 24 2006, 08:18 PM

QUOTE(John Simkin @ Mar 24 2006, 07:43 AM)

The Guilty Men, probably the best in the series, was immediately banned after pressure from Lady Bird Johnson and Gerald Ford. The same material is covered in Lyle Sardie's documentary, LBJ: A Closer Look (Trans World News Network).

I have mixed feelings about The Men Who Killed Kennedy. The series includes some important interviews. However, each one is far too subjective. You only get evidence for the particular theory being pushed in that video. In this sense, they are more like tabloid journalism than historical accounts.

Other than The Guilty Men, the series lacks a political dimension. For example, none of them look at the connections between the assassination and JFK's foreign policy.

John,

I agree with your opinion, and would like to add a little trivia.

Which assassination story apart from the corsican mob scenario has the following claims at the center

of the story ?

The hit carried out under a mob contract

3 persons directly involved in Dallas

The arriving a week before the hit

The checking out of Dealey Plaza during the week before the hit

A mercury filled bullet

One shooter on the knoll behind the wooden fence

A headshot from the front with another shot almost hitting at the same time from behind

There may be more things they have in common, but I'm too lazy to try to remember.

Jimmy Files and Nicoletti story? Although according to Mr. Files, he didn't arrive there a week early, just that same morning. Perhaps other team members came earlier.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Jimmy Files and Nicoletti story? Although according to Mr. Files, he didn't arrive there a week early, just that same morning. Perhaps other team members came earlier.

Antti, its been a while since I bothered with the "Files farago" but didnt he claim to be hanging out with Oswald in Dallas the week before the assassination?

[Antti Hynonen]

Stephen Turner Posted Today, 06:22 AM

QUOTE(Antti Hynonen @ Mar 27 2006, 06:25 AM)

Jimmy Files and Nicoletti story? Although according to Mr. Files, he didn't arrive there a week early, just that same morning. Perhaps other team members came earlier.

Antti, its been a while since I bothered with the "Files farago" but didnt he claim to be hanging out with Oswald in Dallas the week before the assassination?

Stephen, I'm not sure about this. The whole story is on Dankbaar's site, I just recall that according to Files, he was asked to fill in for someone who backed out that very day. Also part of the team drove into Dallas from New Mexico that day and that Files was walking around that morning getting to know the plaza and looking for a spot to shoot from. This would indicate to me that he hadn't been around the area before.

With the exception of the bullet and the tooth marks on it, I have a hard time buying the Files story. Then again, it's better than some of the stories out there.

[Dave Weaver]

Antti,Stephen,

right, it's the James Files story of the assassination as told by him.

For those who would like to compare the two stories, here are 2 links.

Here's an introduction to the sory told by Rivele and David:

http://members.optushome.com.au/tnorth/introduction.htm

Compare this with what James Files said in 1994:

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/confession2.htm

Files arrived one week earlier, but did stay in the Lamplighter (sp) motel outside of Dallas, when he was photographed, alledgedly,by Lee Harvey Oswald, on the morning of the assassination,if I remember right .

The "Corsicans" stayed in a safe house in Dallas according to Rivele/David.

Another similarity I forgot to mention, in both storys have the chicago mob involved.

The Rivele/David story was aired 1988 I think, don't know when Rivele discovered David and the story he told, James Files came forward after 1990, would have to look that up, but did mention something to the effect that if the american public would learn what realy happened that day in dealey plaza, they would not be able to handle it, while driving through Dealey Plaza with a friend, in the early to mid 80's

John Rademacher found his 2 bullets on the knoll 1987, you can read about it here:

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/rademacher.htm

What would be interresting to know is, who fired the second bullet he found, if that bullets had anything to do

with the assassination at all ?

That is a question even James Files can/will not answer.

I think it is fair to say that at least one of the stories is a hoax.

Which one, don't ask me,because I would have to say, both.