Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/Rifle_Bullets/index.html Since JFK Lancer long ago provided the original photo's of CE399, as released as a result of the JFK Records Act, I would have hoped that you (Jack) would have taken the time to check out those things which you quite obviously do not understand. But then again, you belive that corrosion/contamination scratches on bullets which are created by debri within the rifling grooves are also rifling markings, merely because a couple of highly "non-qualified" persons claim it to be so. Might I recommend the AFTE! (Association of Firearms & Toolmark Examiners) They appear to have the necessary qualifications to evaluate ballistic information relative to bullet rifling and markings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 8, 2006 Author Share Posted July 8, 2006 Single-bullet advocate Purvis should have his eyes examined. Jack I am surprised that NOBODY...Purvis, Miller, Lamson et al...has responded to this obvious photo of two DIFFERENT 399s. Come on fellows! Lamson will opine it is just bad lighting, and Miller will say I faked it, and Purvis will say Magic Bullet...one gunman. Jack Jack! Turn your hat around and make an attempt to read something, as opposed to merely looking at the pictures. The National Archives photo is CE399 "as received" and photographed by the National Archives when they first received the bullet. The other photo is of the base of the bullet at the time that the HSCA re-opened the investigation and photographed it. Same Bullet! Just that that portion of the copper jacket which normally covers a portion of the base of the bullet and which had been "stretched" backwards to create a cupped effect with sharp edges, and also had some impact damage, had now been removed. In event you would like to see a similar example, then do what I long ago did. Get you a bullet, then get you a small file, and it is quite simple to make that portion of the copper jacket at the base of the bullet, completely disappear. In fact, if you will look at the outer rim of the lead core in the HSCA photo, one can see the circular impression, which was forced into the lead core by the now missing portion of the copper jacket which was present when FBI Agent Frazier examined the bullet, and when it was first turned over to the National Archives. I do believe that a copy of my letter to Agent Frazier, in regards to our discussion regarding this now missing portion of the bullet was provided. Single-bullet advocate Purvis should have his eyes examined. Jack I am surprised that NOBODY...Purvis, Miller, Lamson et al...has responded to this obvious photo of two DIFFERENT 399s. Come on fellows! Lamson will opine it is just bad lighting, and Miller will say I faked it, and Purvis will say Magic Bullet...one gunman. Jack and Purvis will say Magic Bullet...one gunman. P.S. CE399 IS NOT "Magic" "Magic" things disappear! Now you see it, now you don't! Kind of like the third/last/final shot. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; except for the marking of my initials and the other examiners. There is a discoloration at the nose caused apparently by mounting this bullet in some material which stained it, ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/Rifle_Bullets/33-3320a.gif --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I of course had "high hopes" that someone would observe, in the HSCA photo, that the "stain" has now been polished away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 8, 2006 Author Share Posted July 8, 2006 Single-bullet advocate Purvis should have his eyes examined. Jack I am surprised that NOBODY...Purvis, Miller, Lamson et al...has responded to this obvious photo of two DIFFERENT 399s. Come on fellows! Lamson will opine it is just bad lighting, and Miller will say I faked it, and Purvis will say Magic Bullet...one gunman. Jack Jack! Turn your hat around and make an attempt to read something, as opposed to merely looking at the pictures. The National Archives photo is CE399 "as received" and photographed by the National Archives when they first received the bullet. The other photo is of the base of the bullet at the time that the HSCA re-opened the investigation and photographed it. Same Bullet! Just that that portion of the copper jacket which normally covers a portion of the base of the bullet and which had been "stretched" backwards to create a cupped effect with sharp edges, and also had some impact damage, had now been removed. In event you would like to see a similar example, then do what I long ago did. Get you a bullet, then get you a small file, and it is quite simple to make that portion of the copper jacket at the base of the bullet, completely disappear. In fact, if you will look at the outer rim of the lead core in the HSCA photo, one can see the circular impression, which was forced into the lead core by the now missing portion of the copper jacket which was present when FBI Agent Frazier examined the bullet, and when it was first turned over to the National Archives. I do believe that a copy of my letter to Agent Frazier, in regards to our discussion regarding this now missing portion of the bullet was provided. Single-bullet advocate Purvis should have his eyes examined. Jack I am surprised that NOBODY...Purvis, Miller, Lamson et al...has responded to this obvious photo of two DIFFERENT 399s. Come on fellows! Lamson will opine it is just bad lighting, and Miller will say I faked it, and Purvis will say Magic Bullet...one gunman. Jack and Purvis will say Magic Bullet...one gunman. P.S. CE399 IS NOT "Magic" "Magic" things disappear! Now you see it, now you don't! Kind of like the third/last/final shot. There is no "Magic"! However! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 8, 2006 Author Share Posted July 8, 2006 Single-bullet advocate Purvis should have his eyes examined.Jack Single-bullet advocate Purvis should have his eyes examined. Thank you, I have! And unfortunately, age has now gotten me to where I use 2.25 glasses just for reading. Fortunately however, most of this work was done some 15 to 16 years ago while I still had my normal 20/20 vision. Certainly made my "crystal ball" less foggy. Nevertheless! I will repost this drawing, which may help you to understand that the photo of the base of CE399 in which the entire lead core of the bullet can be seen, is an "after the fact" in which that portion of the copper jacket of the bullet which normally covers a portion of the lead core at the bullet base, has been removed. I have also provided a photo of the base of a normal/unfired bullet in which it can be seen that the portion of the lead core at the base of the bullet which is exposed, measures 4.5mm in diameter. Therefore, the thickness of the external copper jacket, plus that portion of the copper jacket which is normally present and crimped over the lead core at the base of the bullet, measures 1mm in width on each side of the exposed lead core. This close up of the base of CE399, quite clearly demonstrates the circular indentation in the lead core, where the now missing portion of the copper jacket was once present. Providing additional proof that this portion of the copper jacket was present when the deformation to the base of the bullet occurred. Which we of course already knew once the JFK Records act got the National Archives photo of the bullet released to the public. I do believe that you will find the Copyright date on the drawing somewhat precedes the release of documents and photo's as a result of the JFK Records Act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 8, 2006 Author Share Posted July 8, 2006 Single-bullet advocate Purvis should have his eyes examined. Jack Single-bullet advocate Purvis should have his eyes examined. Thank you, I have! And unfortunately, age has now gotten me to where I use 2.25 glasses just for reading. Fortunately however, most of this work was done some 15 to 16 years ago while I still had my normal 20/20 vision. Certainly made my "crystal ball" less foggy. Nevertheless! I will repost this drawing, which may help you to understand that the photo of the base of CE399 in which the entire lead core of the bullet can be seen, is an "after the fact" in which that portion of the copper jacket of the bullet which normally covers a portion of the lead core at the bullet base, has been removed. I have also provided a photo of the base of a normal/unfired bullet in which it can be seen that the portion of the lead core at the base of the bullet which is exposed, measures 4.5mm in diameter. Therefore, the thickness of the external copper jacket, plus that portion of the copper jacket which is normally present and crimped over the lead core at the base of the bullet, measures 1mm in width on each side of the exposed lead core. This close up of the base of CE399, quite clearly demonstrates the circular indentation in the lead core, where the now missing portion of the copper jacket was once present. Providing additional proof that this portion of the copper jacket was present when the deformation to the base of the bullet occurred. Which we of course already knew once the JFK Records act got the National Archives photo of the bullet released to the public. I do believe that you will find the Copyright date on the drawing somewhat precedes the release of documents and photo's as a result of the JFK Records Act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Without ever addressing my question, Purvis dances all around the issue and claims STAINS WERE WIPED OFF THE EVIDENCE, ETC. Evidence tampering? He never answered why the photos show two different shaped bullets with two different shaped holes in two different places. Oh well... Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 9, 2006 Author Share Posted July 9, 2006 For those who have come to the realization that the separate photo's of the base of "A" bullet are in fact the base of CE399 which were taken at different periods within it's evolutionary life, the following is also noteworthy. In that photograph where the copper jacket is present and partially covering the lead core at the base of the bullet, can be found evidence which must be evaluated. This evidence consists of "impact" damage to the outer/copper jacket of the bullet at the edge of the bullet, and exactly at the outer edge of the copper jacket. As one looks at the base of the bullet, this impact damage can be observed on the bottom, slightly right of center, on the base of the bullet. Now, when one takes a comparative look at the base of the bullet with the copper jacket missing, it is now found that in this exact area can be seen an "indentation" into the lead core of the bullet. This serves to indicate that this bottom right (bottom left in direction of impact) damage to the bullet was of sufficient impact that not only did it gouge and slightly deform the external copper jacket, but that this impact was also of sufficient velocity that the impact damage was carried through into the lead core of the bullet. And, although the sharp outer rim edge of the copper jacket has been removed, thus removing that damaged portion of the jacket, one can still correlate the impact point to the copper jacket with the sub-impact damage which was carried into the lead core of the bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 9, 2006 Author Share Posted July 9, 2006 (edited) For those who have come to the realization that the separate photo's of the base of "A" bullet are in fact the base of CE399 which were taken at different periods within it's evolutionary life, the following is also noteworthy.In that photograph where the copper jacket is present and partially covering the lead core at the base of the bullet, can be found evidence which must be evaluated. This evidence consists of "impact" damage to the outer/copper jacket of the bullet at the edge of the bullet, and exactly at the outer edge of the copper jacket. As one looks at the base of the bullet, this impact damage can be observed on the bottom, slightly right of center, on the base of the bullet. Now, when one takes a comparative look at the base of the bullet with the copper jacket missing, it is now found that in this exact area can be seen an "indentation" into the lead core of the bullet. This serves to indicate that this bottom right (bottom left in direction of impact) damage to the bullet was of sufficient impact that not only did it gouge and slightly deform the external copper jacket, but that this impact was also of sufficient velocity that the impact damage was carried through into the lead core of the bullet. And, although the sharp outer rim edge of the copper jacket has been removed, thus removing that damaged portion of the jacket, one can still correlate the impact point to the copper jacket with the sub-impact damage which was carried into the lead core of the bullet. After having observed the "impact damage" to the copper jacket of the bullet, as well as the sub-damage to the lead core, it is also noteworthy to observe the "gouging" type indications into the lead core of the bullet which is located directly adjacent to the impact damage. First, and quite noticeable, is the fact that in the approximately 1mm width of the outer rim area of the lead core, there are none of these scratch/gouge marks into the lead. Thus fully demonstrating that the now missing portion of the copper jacket was present when the impact damage occurred, thus protecting this area of the lead core from being scratched and/or gouged. Secondly, one will note in the left area of the lead core, the undisturbed nature of the lead core, which clearly, with comparison of the right hand side (left side in direction of flight & impact) demonstrates severe gouge and scratch markings into the lead core of the bullet. Lastly! In the National Archives photo, one can observe a white/yellowish white substance embedded down into the crevices and fissures of the lead core at the base of the bullet. Yet, in the later photo with the copper jacket removed, this substance is no longer present on the bullet. And, although an item which can now never be proven, rest assured that this substance was bone material. And, now that we have access to original photographs of the base of CE399 which were taken PRIOR to removal of the copper jacket, it would appear that one could also now change that portion of it's evaluation which once stated (back in 1989/1990) "Intentionally removed by someone for unknown reasons". As, I am under the impression that a "sharp rim edge" would create a "relatively clean cut" wound of entry, just as damage to the copper jacket would demonstrate impact to a relatively stable/hard substance, and the limited extent of the impact damage would serve to indicate that the bullet merely struck the "edge" of some substance. Edited July 9, 2006 by Thomas H. Purvis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 9, 2006 Author Share Posted July 9, 2006 For those who have come to the realization that the separate photo's of the base of "A" bullet are in fact the base of CE399 which were taken at different periods within it's evolutionary life, the following is also noteworthy. In that photograph where the copper jacket is present and partially covering the lead core at the base of the bullet, can be found evidence which must be evaluated. This evidence consists of "impact" damage to the outer/copper jacket of the bullet at the edge of the bullet, and exactly at the outer edge of the copper jacket. As one looks at the base of the bullet, this impact damage can be observed on the bottom, slightly right of center, on the base of the bullet. Now, when one takes a comparative look at the base of the bullet with the copper jacket missing, it is now found that in this exact area can be seen an "indentation" into the lead core of the bullet. This serves to indicate that this bottom right (bottom left in direction of impact) damage to the bullet was of sufficient impact that not only did it gouge and slightly deform the external copper jacket, but that this impact was also of sufficient velocity that the impact damage was carried through into the lead core of the bullet. And, although the sharp outer rim edge of the copper jacket has been removed, thus removing that damaged portion of the jacket, one can still correlate the impact point to the copper jacket with the sub-impact damage which was carried into the lead core of the bullet. After having observed the "impact damage" to the copper jacket of the bullet, as well as the sub-damage to the lead core, it is also noteworthy to observe the "gouging" type indications into the lead core of the bullet which is located directly adjacent to the impact damage. First, and quite noticeable, is the fact that in the approximately 1mm width of the outer rim area of the lead core, there are none of these scratch/gouge marks into the lead. Thus fully demonstrating that the now missing portion of the copper jacket was present when the impact damage occurred, thus protecting this area of the lead core from being scratched and/or gouged. Secondly, one will note in the left area of the lead core, the undisturbed nature of the lead core, which clearly, with comparison of the right hand side (left side in direction of flight & impact) demonstrates severe gouge and scratch markings into the lead core of the bullet. Lastly! In the National Archives photo, one can observe a white/yellowish white substance embedded down into the crevices and fissures of the lead core at the base of the bullet. Yet, in the later photo with the copper jacket removed, this substance is no longer present on the bullet. And, although an item which can now never be proven, rest assured that this substance was bone material. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. FRAZIER - There did not necessarily have to be any weight loss to the bullet. There may be a slight amount of lead missing from the base of the bullet, since it is exposed at the base, and the bullet is slightly flattened; there could be a slight weight loss from the end of the bullet, but it would not amount to more than 4 grains, because 158.6 is only a grain and a half less than the normal weight, and at least a 2 grain variation would be allowed. So it would be approximately 3 or 4 grains. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually! Weight of recovered bullet (CE399):---------------------------------------- 158.6 grains Weight loss from merely being fired (from conducted tests):------------ 0.63 grains Accounted for weight of bullet:---------------------------------------------- 159.23 grains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 9, 2006 Author Share Posted July 9, 2006 For those who have come to the realization that the separate photo's of the base of "A" bullet are in fact the base of CE399 which were taken at different periods within it's evolutionary life, the following is also noteworthy. In that photograph where the copper jacket is present and partially covering the lead core at the base of the bullet, can be found evidence which must be evaluated. This evidence consists of "impact" damage to the outer/copper jacket of the bullet at the edge of the bullet, and exactly at the outer edge of the copper jacket. As one looks at the base of the bullet, this impact damage can be observed on the bottom, slightly right of center, on the base of the bullet. Now, when one takes a comparative look at the base of the bullet with the copper jacket missing, it is now found that in this exact area can be seen an "indentation" into the lead core of the bullet. This serves to indicate that this bottom right (bottom left in direction of impact) damage to the bullet was of sufficient impact that not only did it gouge and slightly deform the external copper jacket, but that this impact was also of sufficient velocity that the impact damage was carried through into the lead core of the bullet. And, although the sharp outer rim edge of the copper jacket has been removed, thus removing that damaged portion of the jacket, one can still correlate the impact point to the copper jacket with the sub-impact damage which was carried into the lead core of the bullet. After having observed the "impact damage" to the copper jacket of the bullet, as well as the sub-damage to the lead core, it is also noteworthy to observe the "gouging" type indications into the lead core of the bullet which is located directly adjacent to the impact damage. First, and quite noticeable, is the fact that in the approximately 1mm width of the outer rim area of the lead core, there are none of these scratch/gouge marks into the lead. Thus fully demonstrating that the now missing portion of the copper jacket was present when the impact damage occurred, thus protecting this area of the lead core from being scratched and/or gouged. Secondly, one will note in the left area of the lead core, the undisturbed nature of the lead core, which clearly, with comparison of the right hand side (left side in direction of flight & impact) demonstrates severe gouge and scratch markings into the lead core of the bullet. Lastly! In the National Archives photo, one can observe a white/yellowish white substance embedded down into the crevices and fissures of the lead core at the base of the bullet. Yet, in the later photo with the copper jacket removed, this substance is no longer present on the bullet. And, although an item which can now never be proven, rest assured that this substance was bone material. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. FRAZIER - There did not necessarily have to be any weight loss to the bullet. There may be a slight amount of lead missing from the base of the bullet, since it is exposed at the base, and the bullet is slightly flattened; there could be a slight weight loss from the end of the bullet, but it would not amount to more than 4 grains, because 158.6 is only a grain and a half less than the normal weight, and at least a 2 grain variation would be allowed. So it would be approximately 3 or 4 grains. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually! Weight of recovered bullet (CE399):---------------------------------------- 158.6 grains Weight loss from merely being fired (from conducted tests):------------ 0.63 grains Accounted for weight of bullet:---------------------------------------------- 159.23 grains http://jfklancer.com/docs.maps/limoexam.gif Three small lead fragments found in the rear of the Presidential Limousine. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://jfklancer.com/docs.maps/FBI43646.gif Handwritten notes of FBI Agent Frazier in regards to evaluation of bullet/bullet fragment. Note that Q1 is in fact CE399 Also noted is the three fragments found in the flooring of the Presidential Limousine, which weighed: 00.9 grains/00.7 grains/& 00.7 grains. One should also note Agent Frazier's comments on the far right hand side which indicates "Poss Q1", which would serve to indicate that Agent Frazier, for some unknown reason, suspected that some/one/a portion of these three fragments came from CE399/Q1. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/Rifle_Bullets/ce840.jpg CE840, the three lead fragments found in the rear flooring of the Presidential Limousine, as photographed by the FBI. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/pub/CE/CE840.gif CE840 as received by the National Archives. While in possession of the FBI/WC, a quite "unique" fragment had disappeared from evidence. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/docs.maps/fragtest/hsca/Page_2.JPEG Here, we again have the individual weight of the three fragments of CE840, in these documents from the HSCA attempting to find out what happened to the missing fragments and weights. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/docs.maps/fragtest/hsca/Page_5.JPEG One should also notice that in this copy of the page of FBI Agent Frazier's notes, that portion of the notes which contained "Poss Q1" has been conveniently omitted. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 9, 2006 Author Share Posted July 9, 2006 For those who have come to the realization that the separate photo's of the base of "A" bullet are in fact the base of CE399 which were taken at different periods within it's evolutionary life, the following is also noteworthy. In that photograph where the copper jacket is present and partially covering the lead core at the base of the bullet, can be found evidence which must be evaluated. This evidence consists of "impact" damage to the outer/copper jacket of the bullet at the edge of the bullet, and exactly at the outer edge of the copper jacket. As one looks at the base of the bullet, this impact damage can be observed on the bottom, slightly right of center, on the base of the bullet. Now, when one takes a comparative look at the base of the bullet with the copper jacket missing, it is now found that in this exact area can be seen an "indentation" into the lead core of the bullet. This serves to indicate that this bottom right (bottom left in direction of impact) damage to the bullet was of sufficient impact that not only did it gouge and slightly deform the external copper jacket, but that this impact was also of sufficient velocity that the impact damage was carried through into the lead core of the bullet. And, although the sharp outer rim edge of the copper jacket has been removed, thus removing that damaged portion of the jacket, one can still correlate the impact point to the copper jacket with the sub-impact damage which was carried into the lead core of the bullet. After having observed the "impact damage" to the copper jacket of the bullet, as well as the sub-damage to the lead core, it is also noteworthy to observe the "gouging" type indications into the lead core of the bullet which is located directly adjacent to the impact damage. First, and quite noticeable, is the fact that in the approximately 1mm width of the outer rim area of the lead core, there are none of these scratch/gouge marks into the lead. Thus fully demonstrating that the now missing portion of the copper jacket was present when the impact damage occurred, thus protecting this area of the lead core from being scratched and/or gouged. Secondly, one will note in the left area of the lead core, the undisturbed nature of the lead core, which clearly, with comparison of the right hand side (left side in direction of flight & impact) demonstrates severe gouge and scratch markings into the lead core of the bullet. Lastly! In the National Archives photo, one can observe a white/yellowish white substance embedded down into the crevices and fissures of the lead core at the base of the bullet. Yet, in the later photo with the copper jacket removed, this substance is no longer present on the bullet. And, although an item which can now never be proven, rest assured that this substance was bone material. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. FRAZIER - There did not necessarily have to be any weight loss to the bullet. There may be a slight amount of lead missing from the base of the bullet, since it is exposed at the base, and the bullet is slightly flattened; there could be a slight weight loss from the end of the bullet, but it would not amount to more than 4 grains, because 158.6 is only a grain and a half less than the normal weight, and at least a 2 grain variation would be allowed. So it would be approximately 3 or 4 grains. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually! Weight of recovered bullet (CE399):---------------------------------------- 158.6 grains Weight loss from merely being fired (from conducted tests):------------ 0.63 grains Accounted for weight of bullet:---------------------------------------------- 159.23 grains http://jfklancer.com/docs.maps/limoexam.gif Three small lead fragments found in the rear of the Presidential Limousine. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://jfklancer.com/docs.maps/FBI43646.gif Handwritten notes of FBI Agent Frazier in regards to evaluation of bullet/bullet fragment. Note that Q1 is in fact CE399 Also noted is the three fragments found in the flooring of the Presidential Limousine, which weighed: 00.9 grains/00.7 grains/& 00.7 grains. One should also note Agent Frazier's comments on the far right hand side which indicates "Poss Q1", which would serve to indicate that Agent Frazier, for some unknown reason, suspected that some/one/a portion of these three fragments came from CE399/Q1. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/Rifle_Bullets/ce840.jpg CE840, the three lead fragments found in the rear flooring of the Presidential Limousine, as photographed by the FBI. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/pub/CE/CE840.gif CE840 as received by the National Archives. While in possession of the FBI/WC, a quite "unique" fragment had disappeared from evidence. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/docs.maps/fragtest/hsca/Page_2.JPEG Here, we again have the individual weight of the three fragments of CE840, in these documents from the HSCA attempting to find out what happened to the missing fragments and weights. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/docs.maps/fragtest/hsca/Page_5.JPEG One should also notice that in this copy of the page of FBI Agent Frazier's notes, that portion of the notes which contained "Poss Q1" has been conveniently omitted. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0433b.htm CE840 as entered into evidence by the WC. However, note that this is in all actuallity "Q-14" (Questionable item of evidence# 14) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/pub/CE/CE840.gif CE840/aka "Q-14" has now decreased by one fragment, and the two remaining fragments are now classified as being "C-16" "C" being the designation for CONFIRMED. Therefore, when these two lead fragments were deposited into the National Archives, the FBI had, to their satisfaction, "Confirmed" where these two individual fragments had originated. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/HSCA-Firearms.html 117) CE 840.--Two lead-like fragment** recovered from the rug underneath or in the area which was underneath the left jump seat of the Presidential limousine. (73) The panel found that each fragment weighed 0.5 grain. Because of their minute size, no further examinations were conducted on this exhibit. (See fig. 16.) **Note: The FBI originally recovered three particles. In 1970, an independent researcher brought to the attention of the National Archives that one of the three fragments was missing. The Archives has been unable to locate it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/HSCA-Firearms.html 105) CE 399.--One fired 6.5-millimeter caliber full meter-jacketed bullet, found on a stretcher in the emergency area of Parkland Hospital. The bullet weight was found to be 157.7 grains. (72) In the same box as the bullet was a tiny fragment, which was too small to weigh or otherwise examine. (See figs. 6A and 6B.) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Original Recovered Weight: (CE399)----------158.6 grains------------------------10,277.28 mg HSCA weight:--------------------------------157.7 grains---------------- 10,218.96 mg weight loss prior to HSCA exam:---------------0.9 grains 58.32 mg ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Most curious that from the period in which CE399 was received and weighed by the FBI and the time that it was received and weighed by the HSCA, that the bullet had lost exactly 0.9 grains/58.32mg in weight. I do believe that the released FBI documents related to the NAA examination which they conducted, reveal that only 17.73 mg/0.27 grains of CE399 was utilized in it's evaluation. http://www.jfklancer.com/docs.maps/fragtest/hsca/Page_3.JPEG "Q1 17.73" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 9, 2006 Author Share Posted July 9, 2006 For those who have come to the realization that the separate photo's of the base of "A" bullet are in fact the base of CE399 which were taken at different periods within it's evolutionary life, the following is also noteworthy. In that photograph where the copper jacket is present and partially covering the lead core at the base of the bullet, can be found evidence which must be evaluated. This evidence consists of "impact" damage to the outer/copper jacket of the bullet at the edge of the bullet, and exactly at the outer edge of the copper jacket. As one looks at the base of the bullet, this impact damage can be observed on the bottom, slightly right of center, on the base of the bullet. Now, when one takes a comparative look at the base of the bullet with the copper jacket missing, it is now found that in this exact area can be seen an "indentation" into the lead core of the bullet. This serves to indicate that this bottom right (bottom left in direction of impact) damage to the bullet was of sufficient impact that not only did it gouge and slightly deform the external copper jacket, but that this impact was also of sufficient velocity that the impact damage was carried through into the lead core of the bullet. And, although the sharp outer rim edge of the copper jacket has been removed, thus removing that damaged portion of the jacket, one can still correlate the impact point to the copper jacket with the sub-impact damage which was carried into the lead core of the bullet. After having observed the "impact damage" to the copper jacket of the bullet, as well as the sub-damage to the lead core, it is also noteworthy to observe the "gouging" type indications into the lead core of the bullet which is located directly adjacent to the impact damage. First, and quite noticeable, is the fact that in the approximately 1mm width of the outer rim area of the lead core, there are none of these scratch/gouge marks into the lead. Thus fully demonstrating that the now missing portion of the copper jacket was present when the impact damage occurred, thus protecting this area of the lead core from being scratched and/or gouged. Secondly, one will note in the left area of the lead core, the undisturbed nature of the lead core, which clearly, with comparison of the right hand side (left side in direction of flight & impact) demonstrates severe gouge and scratch markings into the lead core of the bullet. Lastly! In the National Archives photo, one can observe a white/yellowish white substance embedded down into the crevices and fissures of the lead core at the base of the bullet. Yet, in the later photo with the copper jacket removed, this substance is no longer present on the bullet. And, although an item which can now never be proven, rest assured that this substance was bone material. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. FRAZIER - There did not necessarily have to be any weight loss to the bullet. There may be a slight amount of lead missing from the base of the bullet, since it is exposed at the base, and the bullet is slightly flattened; there could be a slight weight loss from the end of the bullet, but it would not amount to more than 4 grains, because 158.6 is only a grain and a half less than the normal weight, and at least a 2 grain variation would be allowed. So it would be approximately 3 or 4 grains. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually! Weight of recovered bullet (CE399):---------------------------------------- 158.6 grains Weight loss from merely being fired (from conducted tests):------------ 0.63 grains Accounted for weight of bullet:---------------------------------------------- 159.23 grains http://jfklancer.com/docs.maps/limoexam.gif Three small lead fragments found in the rear of the Presidential Limousine. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://jfklancer.com/docs.maps/FBI43646.gif Handwritten notes of FBI Agent Frazier in regards to evaluation of bullet/bullet fragment. Note that Q1 is in fact CE399 Also noted is the three fragments found in the flooring of the Presidential Limousine, which weighed: 00.9 grains/00.7 grains/& 00.7 grains. One should also note Agent Frazier's comments on the far right hand side which indicates "Poss Q1", which would serve to indicate that Agent Frazier, for some unknown reason, suspected that some/one/a portion of these three fragments came from CE399/Q1. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/Rifle_Bullets/ce840.jpg CE840, the three lead fragments found in the rear flooring of the Presidential Limousine, as photographed by the FBI. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/pub/CE/CE840.gif CE840 as received by the National Archives. While in possession of the FBI/WC, a quite "unique" fragment had disappeared from evidence. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/docs.maps/fragtest/hsca/Page_2.JPEG Here, we again have the individual weight of the three fragments of CE840, in these documents from the HSCA attempting to find out what happened to the missing fragments and weights. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/docs.maps/fragtest/hsca/Page_5.JPEG One should also notice that in this copy of the page of FBI Agent Frazier's notes, that portion of the notes which contained "Poss Q1" has been conveniently omitted. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0433b.htm CE840 as entered into evidence by the WC. However, note that this is in all actuallity "Q-14" (Questionable item of evidence# 14) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/pub/CE/CE840.gif CE840/aka "Q-14" has now decreased by one fragment, and the two remaining fragments are now classified as being "C-16" "C" being the designation for CONFIRMED. Therefore, when these two lead fragments were deposited into the National Archives, the FBI had, to their satisfaction, "Confirmed" where these two individual fragments had originated. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/HSCA-Firearms.html 117) CE 840.--Two lead-like fragment** recovered from the rug underneath or in the area which was underneath the left jump seat of the Presidential limousine. (73) The panel found that each fragment weighed 0.5 grain. Because of their minute size, no further examinations were conducted on this exhibit. (See fig. 16.) **Note: The FBI originally recovered three particles. In 1970, an independent researcher brought to the attention of the National Archives that one of the three fragments was missing. The Archives has been unable to locate it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/HSCA-Firearms.html 105) CE 399.--One fired 6.5-millimeter caliber full meter-jacketed bullet, found on a stretcher in the emergency area of Parkland Hospital. The bullet weight was found to be 157.7 grains. (72) In the same box as the bullet was a tiny fragment, which was too small to weigh or otherwise examine. (See figs. 6A and 6B.) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Original Recovered Weight: (CE399)----------158.6 grains------------------------10,277.28 mg HSCA weight:--------------------------------157.7 grains---------------- 10,218.96 mg weight loss prior to HSCA exam:---------------0.9 grains 58.32 mg ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Most curious that from the period in which CE399 was received and weighed by the FBI and the time that it was received and weighed by the HSCA, that the bullet had lost exactly 0.9 grains/58.32mg in weight. I do believe that the released FBI documents related to the NAA examination which they conducted, reveal that only 17.73 mg/0.27 grains of CE399 was utilized in it's evaluation. http://www.jfklancer.com/docs.maps/fragtest/hsca/Page_3.JPEG "Q1 17.73" Most curious that from the period in which CE399 was received and weighed by the FBI and the time that it was received and weighed by the HSCA, that the bullet had lost exactly 0.9 grains/58.32mg in weight. Since someone, it would appear, likes to work in 0.9 grain increments, then perhaps one should go "the other way" (as opposed to the WC/HSCA weights). Especially since it would appear that we now have, what was quite probably a 0.9 grain bullet fragment missing from CE840. So: 158.6 grains (original weight of CE399) + 0.63 grains (weight loss from merely being fired) = 159.23 grains of accounted for weight. Now, for the time being, were one to assume that the missing fragment from CE840 was in fact the 0.9 grain weight fragment and then add this to the previous 159.23 grains of accounted for weight to CE399. 159.23 + 0.9 + 160.13 grains of accounted for weight. Which, by most standards would equate to a complete bullet. And, this does not even take into consideration the potentially small flakes/fragments of metal which reportedly are located in the C7 vertebral region of JFK's neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 12, 2006 Author Share Posted July 12, 2006 For those who have come to the realization that the separate photo's of the base of "A" bullet are in fact the base of CE399 which were taken at different periods within it's evolutionary life, the following is also noteworthy. In that photograph where the copper jacket is present and partially covering the lead core at the base of the bullet, can be found evidence which must be evaluated. This evidence consists of "impact" damage to the outer/copper jacket of the bullet at the edge of the bullet, and exactly at the outer edge of the copper jacket. As one looks at the base of the bullet, this impact damage can be observed on the bottom, slightly right of center, on the base of the bullet. Now, when one takes a comparative look at the base of the bullet with the copper jacket missing, it is now found that in this exact area can be seen an "indentation" into the lead core of the bullet. This serves to indicate that this bottom right (bottom left in direction of impact) damage to the bullet was of sufficient impact that not only did it gouge and slightly deform the external copper jacket, but that this impact was also of sufficient velocity that the impact damage was carried through into the lead core of the bullet. And, although the sharp outer rim edge of the copper jacket has been removed, thus removing that damaged portion of the jacket, one can still correlate the impact point to the copper jacket with the sub-impact damage which was carried into the lead core of the bullet. After having observed the "impact damage" to the copper jacket of the bullet, as well as the sub-damage to the lead core, it is also noteworthy to observe the "gouging" type indications into the lead core of the bullet which is located directly adjacent to the impact damage. First, and quite noticeable, is the fact that in the approximately 1mm width of the outer rim area of the lead core, there are none of these scratch/gouge marks into the lead. Thus fully demonstrating that the now missing portion of the copper jacket was present when the impact damage occurred, thus protecting this area of the lead core from being scratched and/or gouged. Secondly, one will note in the left area of the lead core, the undisturbed nature of the lead core, which clearly, with comparison of the right hand side (left side in direction of flight & impact) demonstrates severe gouge and scratch markings into the lead core of the bullet. Lastly! In the National Archives photo, one can observe a white/yellowish white substance embedded down into the crevices and fissures of the lead core at the base of the bullet. Yet, in the later photo with the copper jacket removed, this substance is no longer present on the bullet. And, although an item which can now never be proven, rest assured that this substance was bone material. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. FRAZIER - There did not necessarily have to be any weight loss to the bullet. There may be a slight amount of lead missing from the base of the bullet, since it is exposed at the base, and the bullet is slightly flattened; there could be a slight weight loss from the end of the bullet, but it would not amount to more than 4 grains, because 158.6 is only a grain and a half less than the normal weight, and at least a 2 grain variation would be allowed. So it would be approximately 3 or 4 grains. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually! Weight of recovered bullet (CE399):---------------------------------------- 158.6 grains Weight loss from merely being fired (from conducted tests):------------ 0.63 grains Accounted for weight of bullet:---------------------------------------------- 159.23 grains http://jfklancer.com/docs.maps/limoexam.gif Three small lead fragments found in the rear of the Presidential Limousine. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://jfklancer.com/docs.maps/FBI43646.gif Handwritten notes of FBI Agent Frazier in regards to evaluation of bullet/bullet fragment. Note that Q1 is in fact CE399 Also noted is the three fragments found in the flooring of the Presidential Limousine, which weighed: 00.9 grains/00.7 grains/& 00.7 grains. One should also note Agent Frazier's comments on the far right hand side which indicates "Poss Q1", which would serve to indicate that Agent Frazier, for some unknown reason, suspected that some/one/a portion of these three fragments came from CE399/Q1. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/Rifle_Bullets/ce840.jpg CE840, the three lead fragments found in the rear flooring of the Presidential Limousine, as photographed by the FBI. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/pub/CE/CE840.gif CE840 as received by the National Archives. While in possession of the FBI/WC, a quite "unique" fragment had disappeared from evidence. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/docs.maps/fragtest/hsca/Page_2.JPEG Here, we again have the individual weight of the three fragments of CE840, in these documents from the HSCA attempting to find out what happened to the missing fragments and weights. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfklancer.com/docs.maps/fragtest/hsca/Page_5.JPEG One should also notice that in this copy of the page of FBI Agent Frazier's notes, that portion of the notes which contained "Poss Q1" has been conveniently omitted. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One should also notice that in this copy of the page of FBI Agent Frazier's notes, that portion of the notes which contained "Poss Q1" has been conveniently omitted. Now, if one could merely determine exactly which of the three fragments of CE840 may have been "Poss Q1"! http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/Rifle_Bullets/ce840.jpg http://www.jfklancer.com/pub/CE/CE840.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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