Jump to content

A "few" Facts


Recommended Posts

OK, I understand now.

I was just wondering if the fact that the links you posted about wadcutters, which specifically referenced .38 caliber wadcutters, was significant in relation to the .38 caliber references.

Guess not.

Back to your talk of the tree-branch strike in order to achieve a base-first entrance wound in JFK's back...carry on, Tom, and pay no attention to the guy over here who thought you were dropping clues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 72
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

If the force that deformed the bullet was applied from the direction indicated by the blue arrow.

Is it known whether this edge at the rear of the bullet was also ragged as indicated by the edges in the 'bullet silhouette'.

Or is it right to assume this edge smoothed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Purvis's Carcano bullet is the ORIGINAL SIX-GROOVE CE399.

Three grooves are seen facing the camera, and three grooves

are on the backside.

This bullet CANNOT have been fired from CE139, which

has only FOUR lands and grooves.

After this mistake was discovered, the bullet in the Archives

as CE399 was exchanged with a FOUR-groove bullet.

Jack

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, I understand now.

I was just wondering if the fact that the links you posted about wadcutters, which specifically referenced .38 caliber wadcutters, was significant in relation to the .38 caliber references.

Guess not.

Back to your talk of the tree-branch strike in order to achieve a base-first entrance wound in JFK's back...carry on, Tom, and pay no attention to the guy over here who thought you were dropping clues.

The absolute FIRST time that I ever saw a photo of the back wound of JFK, I knew that it was a completely (as Dr. Boswell has stated) "atypical" wound.

Then when one reads the autopsy report in reference to the relatively "clean cut" edges, etc., then anyone familiar with bullets at all should have recognized the similarity between JFK's back wound and what a "wadcutter" bullet does.

And since CE399 only has one "flat" end, does not leave much in the way as to having to speculate as regards which end of the bullet struck JFK upon initial impact.

The fact that the back wound measured 4mm X 7mm, and that the deformed base to CE399 also measures exactly 4mm X 7mm, should pretty well wrap this up for anyone. Even those graduates of the "Jethro Bodine" school of higher education.

Then of course we merely have to add in the WHY? the round managed to "punch" out considerable fabric from the clothing of JFK and carry it into the wound of entrance, when in fact, this too is absolutely abnormal.

Believe me, there is really not that much that is difficult to understand in regards to this subject.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The late Sgt. John Ritchson, MASTER GUNSMITH, verified that my

analysis of the four and six groove bullets is correct. The color

coding was done by researcher Tom Geletka.

Jack

First off Jack, please indicate exactly what 6.5mm rifle it is/ was that had a six-groove riflings.

Secondly, I have informed you previously that this is complete BS.

In event that you and your experts can not differentiate between true rifling markings as produced by the lands and grooves inside the barrel, as opposed to elongaged "scratch" marks as created by the round having been fired from an extremely dirty/corroded rifle barrel, then that is your as well as your "expert's" problem.

I would appreciate it you would include this subject matter under another topic heading such as "A Few Myths", and leave it out of the forensic; ballistic; pathological; and physical FACTS section.

All that you have to do to make yourself one of these mysterious "six-groove"/aka 4-groove + lineal scratch marks bullets, is to fire the Carcano rifle, then allow it to set for a month or so uncleaned, and then fire a new round through it.

Guess what Jack?

The first round fired, in cleaning out the corrosion and corrosion residue, which ultimately is forced down into the "grooves" of the rifle, will make absolutely identical scratch marks onto the 4-groove bullet.

Which by the way, also helps substantuate that CE399 was in fact the first shot fired, as subsequent rounds would not have had these scratch marks created by the corrosion residue inside the rifle barrel, as the FIRST ROUND FIRED pretty well cleans this residue out.

Yep Jack! I got one of them "mysterious" non-existant "6-rifling groove" (4-grooves + corrosion residue scratch marks) rounds also.

In event you will recall, some period back, I posted a copy of a letter from another of the "Old" hard-line conspiracy authors in regards to this subject matter.

And, not unlike most of the other evidence, it was quite simple to recognize what the "six-groove" bullet actually was and thus not too difficult to throw it aside as having any validity.

And, although I have been known to actually buy a "pig or two", rest assured that no matter how well dressed and/or camoflaged, I still recognized that it was a pig.

Therefore, might I recommend that you file the "six-groove" bullet in the same category as the "multilple curb strikes" category.

I do believe that they are filed under the "B.S." files which I have.

Edited by Thomas H. Purvis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tom, I think you misunderstand my position on this subject. I understand that the shape of the back wound suggests a flat-nosed [assuming nose-first orientation] projectile, and that the oblong shape coincides with CE399. I also understand that the depth of the wound precludes it from having a high velocity on impact, else the bullet would have most likely penetrated further or even exited, the body. And I understand that a tree-branch strike would account for the scrubbing of velocity from the bullet, the oblong shape, AND the apparent base-first strike which would coincide with CE399.

I'm NOT debating you on any of this; I just wondered if the fact that the links you posted specifically mentioned .38-caliber wadcutters, and the fact that LHO's pistol was ALSO a .38 caliber, were anything more than a coincidence. I'm assuming at this point that, rather than trying to drop a clue, the references to .38 caliber wadcutters in the links was merely coincidental.

[We already know, from the official story, that LHO didn't have his pistol on his person until he went back to his apartment...which, if you WERE trying to drop a hint about .38 caliber wadcutters, would radically alter the story of what REALLY went down that day. I'm glad to see you haven't taken that detour...but I was beginning to wonder at first.]

As I said, Tom...carry on, and pay no attention to the man over here who thought you might have been dropping clues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Onward then!

For a quick refresher, I have posted here:

1. Typical/normal entry wound into soft flesh from standard nose first entry/strike.

2. Typical/normal 6.5mm Carcano Bullet.

3. Typical/normal entry of 6.5mm Carcano bullet through shirt materiel.

4. Wadcutter 6.5mm Carcano bullet.

5. Entry wound in soft flesh tissue created by wadcutter 6.5mm Carcano bullet.

6. "Punch" type entry through shirt worn by JFK

7. "Punch" type entry wound into the back of JFK

8. Base of CE#399

It truly does not get much more simple than these facts!

Now, add in 4mm X 7mm deformed base to CE399 and the corresponding 4mm X 7mm "atypical" entry wound in the back of JFk which had, as defined by Dr. Humes, relatively clean cut edges, and then the added fact that the materials which were "punched" out of the coat and shirt were carried down into the wound of entry by the striking bullet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the force that deformed the bullet was applied from the direction indicated by the blue arrow.

Is it known whether this edge at the rear of the bullet was also ragged as indicated by the edges in the 'bullet silhouette'.

Or is it right to assume this edge smoothed.

John!

Although I do not fully understand the question, the issue of the base of CE399 is a critical element, for several reasons.

1. It tells us beyond absolutely any doubt that this bullet passed through a material of such density that it literally "stretched" the copper jacket backward, thus creating a relatively sharp edge at the base of the bullet, when the bullet does not normally have such a characteristic.

2. It demonstrates another of the continuing attempts by members of the WC/FBI to continue to obscure the facts related to the assassination. This is demonstrated by the fact that when the bullet was first given to the National Archives, that portion of the copper jacket which normally covers most of the lead core base of the bullet was present.

However, in later photographs of the bullet base, this portion of the bullet has been removed by persons unknown.

3. The "slight" damage to the base of the copper jacket is indicative that this bullet struckj some sharp edged object with sufficient force to create damage to the copper base of the bullet.

Such an object could have easily been the right transverse process of the C7 Vertebra of JFK's neck which is now known to have been fractured/fragmented.

As soon as sufficient attachment space is again available, I will repost three photo's of bullet bases.

Then, one can easily see how the copper jacket of CE399 was literally stretched backwards around it's entire circumference, to the extent that it made a "cup" design at the base of the bullet in which the copper jacket now has sharp edges around the outer rim.

This could have occurred ONLY due to the bullet having passed through a material of sufficient density that the external pressure exerted on the outer/copper jacket of the bullet was stretched backwards as the bullet passed through the substance.

No amount of shooting human beings, whether flesh or bone strikes, can create such an anomoly to the copper jacket of such a bullet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the force that deformed the bullet was applied from the direction indicated by the blue arrow.

Is it known whether this edge at the rear of the bullet was also ragged as indicated by the edges in the 'bullet silhouette'.

Or is it right to assume this edge smoothed.

John!

Although I do not fully understand the question, the issue of the base of CE399 is a critical element, for several reasons.

1. It tells us beyond absolutely any doubt that this bullet passed through a material of such density that it literally "stretched" the copper jacket backward, thus creating a relatively sharp edge at the base of the bullet, when the bullet does not normally have such a characteristic.

2. It demonstrates another of the continuing attempts by members of the WC/FBI to continue to obscure the facts related to the assassination. This is demonstrated by the fact that when the bullet was first given to the National Archives, that portion of the copper jacket which normally covers most of the lead core base of the bullet was present.

However, in later photographs of the bullet base, this portion of the bullet has been removed by persons unknown.

3. The "slight" damage to the base of the copper jacket is indicative that this bullet struckj some sharp edged object with sufficient force to create damage to the copper base of the bullet.

Such an object could have easily been the right transverse process of the C7 Vertebra of JFK's neck which is now known to have been fractured/fragmented.

As soon as sufficient attachment space is again available, I will repost three photo's of bullet bases.

Then, one can easily see how the copper jacket of CE399 was literally stretched backwards around it's entire circumference, to the extent that it made a "cup" design at the base of the bullet in which the copper jacket now has sharp edges around the outer rim.

This could have occurred ONLY due to the bullet having passed through a material of sufficient density that the external pressure exerted on the outer/copper jacket of the bullet was stretched backwards as the bullet passed through the substance.

No amount of shooting human beings, whether flesh or bone strikes, can create such an anomoly to the copper jacket of such a bullet.

In the event one even thinks that they may have some idea as to how to resolve the issues of the assassination, they absolutely will not accomplish same unless they take the time and effort to truly examine the physical evidence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've difficulty orienting the side view and end view of the bullet

Could you comment please?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It truly does not get much more simple than these facts!

You left out the important ones.

The bullet defect in JFK's shirt is 4" below the bottom of the collar.

The bullet defect in his jacket is 4 & 1/8" below the bottom of the collar.

Here's the Towner film, which shows JFK's jacket collar in a normal position at the

base of his neck, on Elm St.

http://www.jfk-online.com/Towner.mpg

Betzner #3 at Z186 shows the same thing.

http://www.geocities.com/quaneeri4/Betzner_Large.jpg

For a bullet to have struck JFK in the back of the neck at C7 as per the SBT, the shirt

and jacket had to have been bunched up in tandem at least 3 INCHES.

That's at least 6 INCHES of fabric bunched up entirely ABOVE the C7 inshoot at the

base of JFK's neck -- and entirely BELOW the jacket collar at the base of JFK's neck.

That is flat out physically impossible. You couldn't replicate such an event using

BOTH hands to tug, Thomas.

Edited by Cliff Varnell
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've difficulty orienting the side view and end view of the bullet

Could you comment please?

Perhaps this from the HSCA will be of some assistance.

If one looks closely, they can also observe one of the "scratch marks" which was created by some form of contamination in the rifle barrel. This mark is completely obvious and present in photo's from one side of the bullet, yet, in photo's from an opposite side we see merely the standard 4-groove rifling markings.

Edited by Thomas H. Purvis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since the HSCA also did an excellent job of "hiding the pea" through the utilization of such masterful items of deceit as:

1. Usage of drawings made by Ida Dox

2. Various photographs of the back entry, shown at different times to different persons.

Then, perhaps some would have an interest in seeing what the autopsy Dr.'s initially observed.

And, although a portion of the HSCA Investigation, not unlike most of the other evidence necessary to place this puzzle into perspective, it is well hidden.

The attached photograph is a closeup of the actual backwound of JFK as taken during the autopsy. It is listed as JFK Exhibit F-82 in the HSCA documents, and it is of immense importance in wound evaluation and comparison.

Of particular note are the "relatively clean-cut edges", as well as the fact that the wound is actually elongated horizontally, when in fact, based on a downward angle of fire and a normal bullet striking attitude, the wound should be elongated vertically with the abrasion collar located at the top of the entry.

Again, for comparison, I have also included the 6.5mm Carcano "Wadcutter" bullet wound in soft flesh materials.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Harold Weisberg in the late 60s went to the Archives and

personally photographed the 6-groove bullet in evidence

as CE399 BEFORE IT WAS SWITCHED FOR THE FOUR-GROOVE

BULLET NOW IN EVIDENCE. Attached is Harold's photo from

his book POST MORTEM. I have numbered six land/groove

markings on one half of the bullet. We may deduce there

are an equal number on the other side. There is no doubt

that the original 399 had six land/groove markings. The late

Sgt. John Ritchson MASTER GUNSMITH looked at this photo

and verified this.

Jack

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...