Ashton Gray Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 (edited) It's been brought to my attention that the 1 May 1963 memorandum by Richard Helms to Director of Central Intelligence John McCone, summarizing Helms's interview with ABC newswoman Lisa Howard after her interview with Fidel Castro, is signed this way: The only thing I've been able to locate with respect to any "W. Lloyd George" and CIA is the rather crucial document below, dated 10 August 1961, the subject and substance of which is an entire study in and of itself (one that so often goes overlooked) concerning CIA and embassies. This pivotal document has the curious attribution: "Drafted by W. Lloyd George of the Deputy Directorate of Plans, Central Intelligence Agency." Here is the document in full, with notes and cross references as found in Department of State records: Telegram From Director of Central Intelligence Dulles to All Chiefs of Station/1/Washington, August 10, 1961./1/Source: Central Intelligence Agency, DCI (Dulles) Files, Dispatch and Book Dispatch, 1963, Box 6, Folder 11. Top Secret. Drafted by W. Lloyd George of the Deputy Directorate of Plans, Central Intelligence Agency.DIR 05454. Rybat.1. President Kennedy's letter to Ambassadors of 29 May 1961,/2/ affirms their responsibility "to oversee and coordinate" all programs or activities of the United States in their particular areas, whether of the diplomatic mission or of other US agencies. Further, he made clear he expects Ambassadors to be fully informed of these programs or activities./2/See footnote 2, Document 30.2. As you are aware you have always carried the responsibility for reviewing with the Ambassador covert action matters growing out of our responsibilities under the 5412 directive of the National Security Council. Furthermore, most of you have arrived at relationships with Ambassadors in the past which have made you conscious of the need to keep the Ambassador informed so that he may judge the political risks inherent in any activity, whether deriving from "5412" or developed in pursuit of our statutory responsibility in the field of espionage and clandestine counterintelligence. However, the feeling had developed over the past few years within diplomatic missions around the world that Ambassadors are not sufficiently well informed properly to protect them in their responsibility as the principal United States officers in their respective areas who bear the brunt of any covert or clandestine activity that inadvertently becomes known to and represents a serious affront to the local government.3. Where espionage and clandestine counterintelligence are concerned we have always been aware of the possible political risks inherent in our activities. This is the reason for the language of NSCID 5, paragraph 6, which states Ambassadors will be kept "appropriately informed."/3/ However, it is clear today that many Chiefs of Mission feel that our officers' interpretation of this phrase has not produced sufficient information./3/National Security Council Intelligence Directive No. 5/2, September 15, 1958. See footnote 5, Document 84.4. Therefore, you will take steps to insure that the Ambassador is informed of your espionage and clandestine counterintelligence programs in addition to your covert action projects. With relation to these operations, he should be made sufficiently aware of them so that, in his capacity as principal officer responsible for the United States position in the country to which he is accredited, he is enabled to make an informed judgment as to the political risks involved.5. In advising him of your various programs, you should pay particular attention to clarifying in his mind their general nature, scope, and purpose. Review with him, for example, the categories of covert action such as psychological warfare, black and gray propaganda, political action and economic action in pursuit of approved 5412 programs. Present your clandestine intelligence activities in categories such as scientific, political, technical, economic and military information objectives carried on against approved requirements, through working relationships with local intelligence and security services and through independent activities. Review your clandestine counterintelligence objectives to acquire knowledge of all other intelligence organizations and membership, to manipulate some members of these to a U.S. advantage, to obtain information by counterintelligence activities, as well as espionage, about all Communist Parties and to counter their objectives through local services and independent activities, and to develop higher capability through training the so-called friendly services.6. In many of your activities there are involved sensitive source identities and sensitive techniques, which it is desired that you safeguard. The Ambassador at times will feel he needs to know these and, in some instances, has a right to know. Judgment with respect to these, however, may have to be made ultimately in Washington. If you are in doubt about passing these ultimate details, the matter should be referred to Washington where decision will be made after consultation between the Director of Central Intelligence and Chief ODACID as to whether you should give the Ambassador these details.7. There will be occasions when an objectively discussed problem will result in an honest difference of opinion between you and your Ambassador regarding whether an operation should be carried on. President Kennedy's letter makes clear that you have your own channels of communication and may use them to refer your problem to higher levels here. While the Ambassador also has his own channels to Washington, he will normally expect you to convey his views on such matters via your channels.8. You should consider this instruction to be of interim nature, pending review of the 1957 agreement between this Headquarters and ODACID (STACIA)./4//4/Not found.9. ODACID has seen and concurs with this message and is requesting all its chiefs of missions and certain principal officers to confer with you regarding it. They may, of course, see it.And that's it. I can't find any other "W. Lloyd George" reference related to CIA anywhere. There was a W. Lloyd George who was editor for the "National Resources Planning Board," which was established in, I believe, 1939, and disbanded in 1943. Does anyone know anything about the CIA's "W. Lloyd George," and why his signature would be over Helms's name? If he actually existed in CIA, he must have been very, very well placed indeed to then have so little record about him. Ashton Gray Edited July 29, 2006 by Ashton Gray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Meredith Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 It's been brought to my attention that the 1 May 1963 memorandum by Richard Helms to Director of Central Intelligence John McCone, summarizing Helms's interview with ABC newswoman Lisa Howard after her interview with Fidel Castro, is signed this way: The only thing I've been able to locate with respect to any "W. Lloyd George" and CIA is the rather crucial document below, dated 10 August 1961, the subject and substance of which is an entire study in and of itself (one that so often goes overlooked) concerning CIA and embassies. This pivotal document has the curious attribution: "Drafted by W. Lloyd George of the Deputy Directorate of Plans, Central Intelligence Agency." Here is the document in full, with notes and cross references as found in Department of State records: Telegram From Director of Central Intelligence Dulles to All Chiefs of Station/1/Washington, August 10, 1961./1/Source: Central Intelligence Agency, DCI (Dulles) Files, Dispatch and Book Dispatch, 1963, Box 6, Folder 11. Top Secret. Drafted by W. Lloyd George of the Deputy Directorate of Plans, Central Intelligence Agency.DIR 05454. Rybat.1. President Kennedy's letter to Ambassadors of 29 May 1961,/2/ affirms their responsibility "to oversee and coordinate" all programs or activities of the United States in their particular areas, whether of the diplomatic mission or of other US agencies. Further, he made clear he expects Ambassadors to be fully informed of these programs or activities./2/See footnote 2, Document 30.2. As you are aware you have always carried the responsibility for reviewing with the Ambassador covert action matters growing out of our responsibilities under the 5412 directive of the National Security Council. Furthermore, most of you have arrived at relationships with Ambassadors in the past which have made you conscious of the need to keep the Ambassador informed so that he may judge the political risks inherent in any activity, whether deriving from "5412" or developed in pursuit of our statutory responsibility in the field of espionage and clandestine counterintelligence. However, the feeling had developed over the past few years within diplomatic missions around the world that Ambassadors are not sufficiently well informed properly to protect them in their responsibility as the principal United States officers in their respective areas who bear the brunt of any covert or clandestine activity that inadvertently becomes known to and represents a serious affront to the local government.3. Where espionage and clandestine counterintelligence are concerned we have always been aware of the possible political risks inherent in our activities. This is the reason for the language of NSCID 5, paragraph 6, which states Ambassadors will be kept "appropriately informed."/3/ However, it is clear today that many Chiefs of Mission feel that our officers' interpretation of this phrase has not produced sufficient information./3/National Security Council Intelligence Directive No. 5/2, September 15, 1958. See footnote 5, Document 84.4. Therefore, you will take steps to insure that the Ambassador is informed of your espionage and clandestine counterintelligence programs in addition to your covert action projects. With relation to these operations, he should be made sufficiently aware of them so that, in his capacity as principal officer responsible for the United States position in the country to which he is accredited, he is enabled to make an informed judgment as to the political risks involved.5. In advising him of your various programs, you should pay particular attention to clarifying in his mind their general nature, scope, and purpose. Review with him, for example, the categories of covert action such as psychological warfare, black and gray propaganda, political action and economic action in pursuit of approved 5412 programs. Present your clandestine intelligence activities in categories such as scientific, political, technical, economic and military information objectives carried on against approved requirements, through working relationships with local intelligence and security services and through independent activities. Review your clandestine counterintelligence objectives to acquire knowledge of all other intelligence organizations and membership, to manipulate some members of these to a U.S. advantage, to obtain information by counterintelligence activities, as well as espionage, about all Communist Parties and to counter their objectives through local services and independent activities, and to develop higher capability through training the so-called friendly services.6. In many of your activities there are involved sensitive source identities and sensitive techniques, which it is desired that you safeguard. The Ambassador at times will feel he needs to know these and, in some instances, has a right to know. Judgment with respect to these, however, may have to be made ultimately in Washington. If you are in doubt about passing these ultimate details, the matter should be referred to Washington where decision will be made after consultation between the Director of Central Intelligence and Chief ODACID as to whether you should give the Ambassador these details.7. There will be occasions when an objectively discussed problem will result in an honest difference of opinion between you and your Ambassador regarding whether an operation should be carried on. President Kennedy's letter makes clear that you have your own channels of communication and may use them to refer your problem to higher levels here. While the Ambassador also has his own channels to Washington, he will normally expect you to convey his views on such matters via your channels.8. You should consider this instruction to be of interim nature, pending review of the 1957 agreement between this Headquarters and ODACID (STACIA)./4//4/Not found.9. ODACID has seen and concurs with this message and is requesting all its chiefs of missions and certain principal officers to confer with you regarding it. They may, of course, see it.And that's it. I can't find any other "W. Lloyd George" reference related to CIA anywhere. There was a W. Lloyd George who was editor for the "National Resources Planning Board," which was established in, I believe, 1939, and disbanded in 1943. Does anyone know anything about the CIA's "W. Lloyd George," and why his signature would be over Helms's name? If he actually existed in CIA, he must have been very, very well placed indeed to then have so little record about him. Ashton Gray Ashton, Try reversing the names, just a thought. Or it could be a fake name, as the CIA often did that : David A. Phillips a/k/a/ "Maurice Bishop" (according to a rather hesitant Antonia Veciana, and some HSCA members); Documentation on LHO exists under both "Lee Harvey" and "Harvery Lee"; Popa Bush's buddy, running cocaine for the Contragate crowd, Felix Rodriguez went by "Max Gomez". Felon North was known as "John Cathey", and according to Terry Reed- ("Compromised")- Ollie was Reed's handler and the man who put Reed into contact with Barry Seal (Then Seal was murdered to shut him up). The document you provided re Lisa Howard tells me conclusively that the CIA was completely aware of what Lisa Howard was up to in Cuba: facilitating peace negeotiations between JFK and Castro. They were to actually meet -(JFK and Castro)- after "a brief trip to Dalas". Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 It's been brought to my attention that the 1 May 1963 memorandum by Richard Helms to Director of Central Intelligence John McCone, summarizing Helms's interview with ABC newswoman Lisa Howard after her interview with Fidel Castro, is signed this way: The only thing I've been able to locate with respect to any "W. Lloyd George" and CIA is the rather crucial document below, dated 10 August 1961, the subject and substance of which is an entire study in and of itself (one that so often goes overlooked) concerning CIA and embassies. This pivotal document has the curious attribution: "Drafted by W. Lloyd George of the Deputy Directorate of Plans, Central Intelligence Agency." Here is the document in full, with notes and cross references as found in Department of State records: Telegram From Director of Central Intelligence Dulles to All Chiefs of Station/1/Washington, August 10, 1961./1/Source: Central Intelligence Agency, DCI (Dulles) Files, Dispatch and Book Dispatch, 1963, Box 6, Folder 11. Top Secret. Drafted by W. Lloyd George of the Deputy Directorate of Plans, Central Intelligence Agency.DIR 05454. Rybat.1. President Kennedy's letter to Ambassadors of 29 May 1961,/2/ affirms their responsibility "to oversee and coordinate" all programs or activities of the United States in their particular areas, whether of the diplomatic mission or of other US agencies. Further, he made clear he expects Ambassadors to be fully informed of these programs or activities./2/See footnote 2, Document 30.2. As you are aware you have always carried the responsibility for reviewing with the Ambassador covert action matters growing out of our responsibilities under the 5412 directive of the National Security Council. Furthermore, most of you have arrived at relationships with Ambassadors in the past which have made you conscious of the need to keep the Ambassador informed so that he may judge the political risks inherent in any activity, whether deriving from "5412" or developed in pursuit of our statutory responsibility in the field of espionage and clandestine counterintelligence. However, the feeling had developed over the past few years within diplomatic missions around the world that Ambassadors are not sufficiently well informed properly to protect them in their responsibility as the principal United States officers in their respective areas who bear the brunt of any covert or clandestine activity that inadvertently becomes known to and represents a serious affront to the local government.3. Where espionage and clandestine counterintelligence are concerned we have always been aware of the possible political risks inherent in our activities. This is the reason for the language of NSCID 5, paragraph 6, which states Ambassadors will be kept "appropriately informed."/3/ However, it is clear today that many Chiefs of Mission feel that our officers' interpretation of this phrase has not produced sufficient information./3/National Security Council Intelligence Directive No. 5/2, September 15, 1958. See footnote 5, Document 84.4. Therefore, you will take steps to insure that the Ambassador is informed of your espionage and clandestine counterintelligence programs in addition to your covert action projects. With relation to these operations, he should be made sufficiently aware of them so that, in his capacity as principal officer responsible for the United States position in the country to which he is accredited, he is enabled to make an informed judgment as to the political risks involved.5. In advising him of your various programs, you should pay particular attention to clarifying in his mind their general nature, scope, and purpose. Review with him, for example, the categories of covert action such as psychological warfare, black and gray propaganda, political action and economic action in pursuit of approved 5412 programs. Present your clandestine intelligence activities in categories such as scientific, political, technical, economic and military information objectives carried on against approved requirements, through working relationships with local intelligence and security services and through independent activities. Review your clandestine counterintelligence objectives to acquire knowledge of all other intelligence organizations and membership, to manipulate some members of these to a U.S. advantage, to obtain information by counterintelligence activities, as well as espionage, about all Communist Parties and to counter their objectives through local services and independent activities, and to develop higher capability through training the so-called friendly services.6. In many of your activities there are involved sensitive source identities and sensitive techniques, which it is desired that you safeguard. The Ambassador at times will feel he needs to know these and, in some instances, has a right to know. Judgment with respect to these, however, may have to be made ultimately in Washington. If you are in doubt about passing these ultimate details, the matter should be referred to Washington where decision will be made after consultation between the Director of Central Intelligence and Chief ODACID as to whether you should give the Ambassador these details.7. There will be occasions when an objectively discussed problem will result in an honest difference of opinion between you and your Ambassador regarding whether an operation should be carried on. President Kennedy's letter makes clear that you have your own channels of communication and may use them to refer your problem to higher levels here. While the Ambassador also has his own channels to Washington, he will normally expect you to convey his views on such matters via your channels.8. You should consider this instruction to be of interim nature, pending review of the 1957 agreement between this Headquarters and ODACID (STACIA)./4//4/Not found.9. ODACID has seen and concurs with this message and is requesting all its chiefs of missions and certain principal officers to confer with you regarding it. They may, of course, see it.And that's it. I can't find any other "W. Lloyd George" reference related to CIA anywhere. There was a W. Lloyd George who was editor for the "National Resources Planning Board," which was established in, I believe, 1939, and disbanded in 1943. Does anyone know anything about the CIA's "W. Lloyd George," and why his signature would be over Helms's name? If he actually existed in CIA, he must have been very, very well placed indeed to then have so little record about him. Ashton Gray I would venture a guess, that W. Lloyd George was Ruchard Helms, a pseudonym in the same manner that John Scelso was John Whitten, Don Eduardo was Everett Howard Hunt et cetera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 It's been brought to my attention that the 1 May 1963 memorandum by Richard Helms to Director of Central Intelligence John McCone, summarizing Helms's interview with ABC newswoman Lisa Howard after her interview with Fidel Castro, is signed this way: The only thing I've been able to locate with respect to any "W. Lloyd George" and CIA is the rather crucial document below, dated 10 August 1961, the subject and substance of which is an entire study in and of itself (one that so often goes overlooked) concerning CIA and embassies. This pivotal document has the curious attribution: "Drafted by W. Lloyd George of the Deputy Directorate of Plans, Central Intelligence Agency." Here is the document in full, with notes and cross references as found in Department of State records: Telegram From Director of Central Intelligence Dulles to All Chiefs of Station/1/Washington, August 10, 1961./1/Source: Central Intelligence Agency, DCI (Dulles) Files, Dispatch and Book Dispatch, 1963, Box 6, Folder 11. Top Secret. Drafted by W. Lloyd George of the Deputy Directorate of Plans, Central Intelligence Agency.DIR 05454. Rybat.1. President Kennedy's letter to Ambassadors of 29 May 1961,/2/ affirms their responsibility "to oversee and coordinate" all programs or activities of the United States in their particular areas, whether of the diplomatic mission or of other US agencies. Further, he made clear he expects Ambassadors to be fully informed of these programs or activities./2/See footnote 2, Document 30.2. As you are aware you have always carried the responsibility for reviewing with the Ambassador covert action matters growing out of our responsibilities under the 5412 directive of the National Security Council. Furthermore, most of you have arrived at relationships with Ambassadors in the past which have made you conscious of the need to keep the Ambassador informed so that he may judge the political risks inherent in any activity, whether deriving from "5412" or developed in pursuit of our statutory responsibility in the field of espionage and clandestine counterintelligence. However, the feeling had developed over the past few years within diplomatic missions around the world that Ambassadors are not sufficiently well informed properly to protect them in their responsibility as the principal United States officers in their respective areas who bear the brunt of any covert or clandestine activity that inadvertently becomes known to and represents a serious affront to the local government.3. Where espionage and clandestine counterintelligence are concerned we have always been aware of the possible political risks inherent in our activities. This is the reason for the language of NSCID 5, paragraph 6, which states Ambassadors will be kept "appropriately informed."/3/ However, it is clear today that many Chiefs of Mission feel that our officers' interpretation of this phrase has not produced sufficient information./3/National Security Council Intelligence Directive No. 5/2, September 15, 1958. See footnote 5, Document 84.4. Therefore, you will take steps to insure that the Ambassador is informed of your espionage and clandestine counterintelligence programs in addition to your covert action projects. With relation to these operations, he should be made sufficiently aware of them so that, in his capacity as principal officer responsible for the United States position in the country to which he is accredited, he is enabled to make an informed judgment as to the political risks involved.5. In advising him of your various programs, you should pay particular attention to clarifying in his mind their general nature, scope, and purpose. Review with him, for example, the categories of covert action such as psychological warfare, black and gray propaganda, political action and economic action in pursuit of approved 5412 programs. Present your clandestine intelligence activities in categories such as scientific, political, technical, economic and military information objectives carried on against approved requirements, through working relationships with local intelligence and security services and through independent activities. Review your clandestine counterintelligence objectives to acquire knowledge of all other intelligence organizations and membership, to manipulate some members of these to a U.S. advantage, to obtain information by counterintelligence activities, as well as espionage, about all Communist Parties and to counter their objectives through local services and independent activities, and to develop higher capability through training the so-called friendly services.6. In many of your activities there are involved sensitive source identities and sensitive techniques, which it is desired that you safeguard. The Ambassador at times will feel he needs to know these and, in some instances, has a right to know. Judgment with respect to these, however, may have to be made ultimately in Washington. If you are in doubt about passing these ultimate details, the matter should be referred to Washington where decision will be made after consultation between the Director of Central Intelligence and Chief ODACID as to whether you should give the Ambassador these details.7. There will be occasions when an objectively discussed problem will result in an honest difference of opinion between you and your Ambassador regarding whether an operation should be carried on. President Kennedy's letter makes clear that you have your own channels of communication and may use them to refer your problem to higher levels here. While the Ambassador also has his own channels to Washington, he will normally expect you to convey his views on such matters via your channels.8. You should consider this instruction to be of interim nature, pending review of the 1957 agreement between this Headquarters and ODACID (STACIA)./4//4/Not found.9. ODACID has seen and concurs with this message and is requesting all its chiefs of missions and certain principal officers to confer with you regarding it. They may, of course, see it.And that's it. I can't find any other "W. Lloyd George" reference related to CIA anywhere. There was a W. Lloyd George who was editor for the "National Resources Planning Board," which was established in, I believe, 1939, and disbanded in 1943. Does anyone know anything about the CIA's "W. Lloyd George," and why his signature would be over Helms's name? If he actually existed in CIA, he must have been very, very well placed indeed to then have so little record about him. Ashton Gray Here's a lead to another researcher who had similiar interests (probably for a different reason): From Weekly Intelligence Notes #28-05 DO YOU KNOW WHEREABOUTS OF CIAer LLOYD GEORGE? - "Could anyone help me get in contact with Lloyd George, who in 1954 was the CIA Tokyo Chief of Station?" Replies to Washington Post researcher/journalist Serge Kovaleski at sergefk@verizon.net And one more that I'm not sure what to make of: Wikopedia reference for Thawee Junlasap (i'm sure this is not a reference to ex British PM David Lloyd George or it would be stated as such): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thawee_Junlasap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Does anyone know anything about the CIA's "W. Lloyd George," and why his signature would be over Helms's name? If he actually existed in CIA, he must have been very, very well placed indeed to then have so little record about him. (Ashton Gray) Ashton, There is officially very little available on W. Lloyd George but if you are prepared to put some time into it, may I suggest you seek out information on OSS Operation Siren. FWIW. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Rigby Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Does anyone know anything about the CIA's "W. Lloyd George," and why his signature would be over Helms's name? If he actually existed in CIA, he must have been very, very well placed indeed to then have so little record about him. (Ashton Gray)Ashton, There is officially very little available on W. Lloyd George but if you are prepared to put some time into it, may I suggest you seek out information on OSS Operation Siren. FWIW. James James, 1. What was Operation Siren? 2. And any idea if a Scripps-Howard exec called Oland D. Russell was OSS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Charles-Dunne Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 (edited) I cannot offer much on W. Lloyd George, but thought it striking that two paragraphs from the letter drafted by him offer both a direct order by President Kennedy, and a potential countermand of that order by George/Helms, to wit: 1. President Kennedy's letter to Ambassadors of 29 May 1961,/2/ affirms their responsibility "to oversee and coordinate" all programs or activities of the United States in their particular areas, whether of the diplomatic mission or of other US agencies. Further, he made clear he expects Ambassadors to be fully informed of these programs or activities.6. In many of your activities there are involved sensitive source identities and sensitive techniques, which it is desired that you safeguard. The Ambassador at times will feel he needs to know these and, in some instances, has a right to know. Judgment with respect to these, however, may have to be made ultimately in Washington. If you are in doubt about passing these ultimate details, the matter should be referred to Washington where decision will be made after consultation between the Director of Central Intelligence and Chief ODACID as to whether you should give the Ambassador these details. Once again, as is so often the case, we witness the Agency cherry-picking the Executive orders they choose to follow, or to disobey. Kennedy's order seemed clear and umambiguous, yet CIA seemed to be instructing its CoS-es that in the event of any doubt, they should consult with Langley prior to following Kennedy's clear and umambiguous order. Longtime Forum members will recall that we have already witnessed CIA's disregard for orders given by Kennedy's predecessor Eisenhower, and his successor Johnson. Hence, it seems unlikely the Kennedy administration was singled out for any particular reason. CIA does what CIA wants, irrespective of whatever the President instructs. Edited July 29, 2006 by Robert Charles-Dunne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 1. What was Operation Siren? 2. And any idea if a Scripps-Howard exec called Oland D. Russell was OSS? (Paul Rigby) Hi Paul, Op Siren was a collaboration between U.S. Intelligence and the Thai underground at the end of WW2. The main guy behind this was Nicol Smith. He worked with Intel Specialist W. Lloyd George who in turn was active in Bangkok, Calcutta and Burma. Securing information here is difficult as much of the Intel gathering structure during this period is how the CIA (still two years away) was to build its foundations on and the Agency has always been tight lipped in this department. As to Oland Russell, he was definitely OSS and then became one of those CIA agents/journalists types much in the mold of Enno Hobbing at Life who was prominent in Guatemala during the early 1950's. FWIW. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 (edited) 1. What was Operation Siren? 2. And any idea if a Scripps-Howard exec called Oland D. Russell was OSS? (Paul Rigby)Hi Paul, Op Siren was a collaboration between U.S. Intelligence and the Thai underground at the end of WW2. The main guy behind this was Nicol Smith. He worked with Intel Specialist W. Lloyd George who in turn was active in Bangkok, Calcutta and Burma. Securing information here is difficult as much of the Intel gathering structure during this period is how the CIA (still two years away) was to build its foundations on and the Agency has always been tight lipped in this department. As to Oland Russell, he was definitely OSS and then became one of those CIA agents/journalists types much in the mold of Enno Hobbing at Life who was prominent in Guatemala during the early 1950's. FWIW. James Well, I was able to find a reference; there was a Lloyd George who was a member of the Cavalier 59 OSOer's, whatever that is; and worked in OSS with Des Fitzgerald circa 1944-45 Edited July 30, 2006 by Robert Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Rigby Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 1. What was Operation Siren? 2. And any idea if a Scripps-Howard exec called Oland D. Russell was OSS? (Paul Rigby)Hi Paul, Op Siren was a collaboration between U.S. Intelligence and the Thai underground at the end of WW2. The main guy behind this was Nicol Smith. He worked with Intel Specialist W. Lloyd George who in turn was active in Bangkok, Calcutta and Burma. Securing information here is difficult as much of the Intel gathering structure during this period is how the CIA (still two years away) was to build its foundations on and the Agency has always been tight lipped in this department. As to Oland Russell, he was definitely OSS and then became one of those CIA agents/journalists types much in the mold of Enno Hobbing at Life who was prominent in Guatemala during the early 1950's. FWIW. James Excellent, thank you. Russell appears to have been the Scripps-Howard exec who dished out appointments and assignments at the CIA's behest, certainly in the late 50s and early 60s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 I cannot offer much on W. Lloyd George, but thought it striking that two paragraphs from the letter drafted by him offer both a direct order by President Kennedy, and a potential countermand of that order by George/Helms, to wit: 1. President Kennedy's letter to Ambassadors of 29 May 1961,/2/ affirms their responsibility "to oversee and coordinate" all programs or activities of the United States in their particular areas, whether of the diplomatic mission or of other US agencies. Further, he made clear he expects Ambassadors to be fully informed of these programs or activities. 6. In many of your activities there are involved sensitive source identities and sensitive techniques, which it is desired that you safeguard. The Ambassador at times will feel he needs to know these and, in some instances, has a right to know. Judgment with respect to these, however, may have to be made ultimately in Washington. If you are in doubt about passing these ultimate details, the matter should be referred to Washington where decision will be made after consultation between the Director of Central Intelligence and Chief ODACID as to whether you should give the Ambassador these details. Once again, as is so often the case, we witness the Agency cherry-picking the Executive orders they choose to follow, or to disobey. Kennedy's order seemed clear and umambiguous, yet CIA seemed to be instructing its CoS-es that in the event of any doubt, they should consult with Langley prior to following Kennedy's clear and umambiguous order. Longtime Forum members will recall that we have already witnessed CIA's disregard for orders given by Kennedy's predecessor Eisenhower, and his successor Johnson. Hence, it seems unlikely the Kennedy administration was singled out for any particular reason. CIA does what CIA wants, irrespective of whatever the President instructs. I concur with what Robert points out, and add that I find this document quite an important one. JFK was trying to wrestle back control from the CIA, under Executive oversight via the Ambassadors. Before, during and after JFK the CIA had done many operations without notifying anyone - and certainly not the Ambassador in the country concerned, as has long been proscribed by law and custom [Ambassador is Chief US officer over all activities in the country on behalf of any US Agency or action]. The War between CIA higher-ups and JFK was in full swing. It culminated in Dallas. This is from namebase.org, http://www.namebase.org/cgi-bin/nb01?_GEORGE_LLOYD_%28OSO%29 FYI: personal experience leads me to conclude it is need of updating, In other words, there is more on subject, somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 I cannot offer much on W. Lloyd George, but thought it striking that two paragraphs from the letter drafted by him offer both a direct order by President Kennedy, and a potential countermand of that order by George/Helms, to wit: 1. President Kennedy's letter to Ambassadors of 29 May 1961,/2/ affirms their responsibility "to oversee and coordinate" all programs or activities of the United States in their particular areas, whether of the diplomatic mission or of other US agencies. Further, he made clear he expects Ambassadors to be fully informed of these programs or activities. 6. In many of your activities there are involved sensitive source identities and sensitive techniques, which it is desired that you safeguard. The Ambassador at times will feel he needs to know these and, in some instances, has a right to know. Judgment with respect to these, however, may have to be made ultimately in Washington. If you are in doubt about passing these ultimate details, the matter should be referred to Washington where decision will be made after consultation between the Director of Central Intelligence and Chief ODACID as to whether you should give the Ambassador these details. Once again, as is so often the case, we witness the Agency cherry-picking the Executive orders they choose to follow, or to disobey. Kennedy's order seemed clear and umambiguous, yet CIA seemed to be instructing its CoS-es that in the event of any doubt, they should consult with Langley prior to following Kennedy's clear and umambiguous order. Longtime Forum members will recall that we have already witnessed CIA's disregard for orders given by Kennedy's predecessor Eisenhower, and his successor Johnson. Hence, it seems unlikely the Kennedy administration was singled out for any particular reason. CIA does what CIA wants, irrespective of whatever the President instructs. I concur with what Robert points out, and add that I find this document quite an important one. JFK was trying to wrestle back control from the CIA, under Executive oversight via the Ambassadors. Before, during and after JFK the CIA had done many operations without notifying anyone - and certainly not the Ambassador in the country concerned, as has long been proscribed by law and custom [Ambassador is Chief US officer over all activities in the country on behalf of any US Agency or action]. The War between CIA higher-ups and JFK was in full swing. It culminated in Dallas. This is from namebase.org, http://www.namebase.org/cgi-bin/nb01?_GEORGE_LLOYD_%28OSO%29 FYI: personal experience leads me to conclude it is need of updating, In other words, there is more on subject, somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashton Gray Posted July 30, 2006 Author Share Posted July 30, 2006 (edited) I concur with what Robert points out, and add that I find this document quite an important one. JFK was trying to wrestle back control from the CIA, under Executive oversight via the Ambassadors. Before, during and after JFK the CIA had done many operations without notifying anyone - and certainly not the Ambassador in the country concerned, as has long been proscribed by law and custom [Ambassador is Chief US officer over all activities in the country on behalf of any US Agency or action]. The War between CIA higher-ups and JFK was in full swing. It culminated in Dallas. Yes, Mr. Dunne's typically perspicacious observation went to the heart of this further damning evidence of CIA's long reign by nihilism. It's that very nihilism that also has allowed them to use the ambassadorships, as it suited them, in another way: as branch CIA emplacements. In the case of Lodge, CIA played him like a lute to effect the surprise murder of the Diem brothers three weeks before CIA took Kennedy out. Lucien Conien paid $40,000 in tax-funded blood money for the Diem hit, a necessary precursor to their hit on JFK, which, among other CIA "benefits," allowed them to then set up the Tonkin fraud. Naturally, Conein would later be involved with Hunt in the fraud-within-a-fraud to smear the Kennedy administration with the very double murder in Vietnam that CIA had orchestrated. There is no measuring stick in human ken for the plumbless depths of their arrogant, pompous perfidy. Then there are the many instances of their arranging appointments of their people to important ambassadorships—such as George H. W. Bush, and Helms to get him shunted away after he and Gottlieb destroyed the things that would most likely hang them at the end of 1972. This also set up sliding Schlesinger in to pretend to "clean up" CIA, while of course his only real job was to further protect their dirtiest secrets. Perfected concealment by "admission" is the bloody handprint they leave everywhere. Ashton Edited July 30, 2006 by Ashton Gray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 FRUS 1961-63, Vol. XI Cuba: List of Persons FOREIGN RELATIONS OF THE UNITED STATES 1961-1963 Volume X Cuba, 1961-1962 DEPARTMENT OF STATE Washington List of Persons Amory, Robert, Deputy Director for Intelligence, Central Intelligence Agency Anderson, Admiral George W., Chief of Naval Operations after August 1961 Ball, George W., Under Secretary of State for Economic Affairs, February-December 1961; thereafter Under Secretary of State Barnes, C. Tracy, Assistant Deputy Director (Plans) for Covert Action, Central Intelligence Agency Battle, Lucius D., Special Assistant to the Secretary of State and Executive Secretary until May 1962 Beerli, Colonel Stanley W., Chief of Air Operations, Branch 4, Western Hemisphere Division, Directorate for Plans, Central Intelligence Agency Berle, Adolph A., Chairman of the Department of State Task Force on Latin America Bissell, Richard M. Jr., Deputy Director for Plans, Central Intelligence Agency, until February 1962 Bowles, Chester A., Under Secretary of State, January-December 1961; thereafter Special Representative and Adviser on African, Asian, and Latin American Affairs Brubeck, William H., Deputy Executive Secretary of the Department of State, August 1961-May 1962; thereafter Special Assistant to the Secretary of State and Executive Secretary Bundy, McGeorge, Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs Bundy, William P., Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs Burke, Admiral Arleigh A., Chief of Naval Operations until August 1961 Cabell, General Charles P., Deputy Director of Central Intelligence until January 1962 Carter, Lieutenant General Marshall S., Deputy Director of Central Intelligence from April 1962 Castro Ruz, Fidel, Cuban Prime Minister Castro Ruz, Raul, Cuban Minister of the Armed Forces Chayes, Abram J., Legal Adviser of the Department of State from February 1961 Clark, Rear Admiral John E., Commander of Special Task Group 81.8 Coerr, Wymberley DeR., Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs Cleveland, J. Harlan, Assistant Secretary of State for International Organization Affairs from February 1961 Craig, Brigadier General William H., Department of Defense Project Officer for Operation Mongoose until June 1962 Crimmins, John H., Deputy Director of the Office of Caribbean and Mexican Affairs, Bureau of Inter-American Affairs, Department of State, until February 1962; thereafter Director of the Office Decker, General George H., Army Chief of Staff Dennison, Admiral Robert L., Commander in Chief, Atlantic Dillon, C. Douglas, Secretary of the Treasury Dobrynin, Anatoliy F., Soviet Ambassador to the United States after March 1962 Donovan, James B., lawyer involved in efforts to secure the release of prisoners captured at the Bay of Pigs Dulles, Allen W., Director of Central Intelligence until November 1961 Dungan, Ralph A., Special Assistant to the President Earman, J. S., Executive Assistant to the Director of Central Intelligence until April 1962 Eisenhower, Dwight D., President of the United States until January 1961 Elder, Walter, Executive Assistant to the Director of Central Intelligence from April 1962 Esterline, J. D., Chief of Branch 4, Western Hemisphere Division, Directorate for Plans, Central Intelligence Agency Gilpatric, Roswell L., Deputy Secretary of Defense from January 1961 Goodwin, Richard N., Assistant Special Counsel to the President until November 1961; thereafter Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs Gray, Major General David W., Chief of the Subsidiary Activities Division, Plans and Policy, Joint Staff, Joint Chiefs of Staff Guevara Serna, Ernesto (Che), President of the Cuban National Bank Harris, Brigadier General Benjamin T., Department of Defense Project Officer for Operation Mongoose from June 1962 Harvey, William K., Chief of Task Force W, Directorate for Plans, Central Intelligence Agency; Project Officer for Operation Mongoose Hawkins, Colonel Jack, Chief of Paramilitary Operations, Branch 4, Western Hemisphere Division, Directorate for Plans, Central Intelligence Agency Helms, Richard M., Chief of Operations, Directorate for Plans, Central Intelligence Agency, until February 1962; thereafter Deputy Director for Plans Hilsman, Roger, Jr., Director of the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, Department of State, from February 1961 Hurwitch, Robert A., Officer in Charge of Cuban Affairs, Office of Caribbean and Mexican Affairs, Bureau of Inter-American Affairs, Department of State until February 1962; Deputy Director, Office of Caribbean and Mexican Affairs, February-June 1962; thereafter Special Assistant for Cuban Affairs, Bureau of Inter-American Affairs; also Project Officer for Operation Mongoose Johnson, Lyndon B., Vice President from January 1961 Johnson, U. Alexis, Deputy Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs from April 1961 Kaysen, Carl, Member, National Security Council Staff, June-December 1961; thereafter Deputy Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs Kennedy, John F., President of the United States from January 1961 Kennedy, Robert F., Attorney General from January 1961 Khrushchev, Nikita S., Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Soviet Union King, Colonel J. C., Chief, Western Hemisphere Division, Directorate for Plans, Central Intelligence Agency Komer, Robert W., Member, National Security Council Staff Lansdale, Brigadier General Edward G., Deputy Assistant for Special Operations to the Secretary of Defense until May 1961; thereafter Assistant for Special Operations; also Chief of Operations for Operation Mongoose after November 1961 Lemnitzer, General Lyman L., Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Macmillan, Harold, British Prime Minister Mann, Thomas C., Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs until April 1961 Martin, Edwin M., Assistant Secretary of State for Economic Affairs until May 1962; thereafter Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs McCone, John A., Director of Central Intelligence from November 1961 McNamara, Robert S., Secretary of Defense from January 1961 Mikoyan, Anastas I., First Deputy Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Soviet Union Miro Cardona, Jose, President of the Cuban Revolutionary Council Morales-Carrion, Arturo, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs Murrow, Edward R., Director of the United States Information Agency Nitze, Paul H., Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs from January 1961 O'Donnell, P. Kenneth, Special Assistant to the President Parrott, Thomas A., Assistant to the President's Military Representative Roa Garcia, Raul, Cuban Minister for External Relations Rostow, Walt W., Deputy Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs until December 1961; thereafter Counselor of the Department of State and Chairman of the Policy Planning Council Rusk, Dean, Secretary of State from January 1961 San Roman, Jose Perez, Commander of the Cuban Expeditionary Force Brigade Schlesinger, Arthur, Jr., Special Assistant to the President Scott, Joseph W., Special Assistant to the Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Shoup, General David M., Commandant of the Marine Corps Smith, Bromley, Acting Executive Secretary of the National Security Council until August 1961; thereafter Executive Secretary Somoza Debayle, General Anastasio, President of Nicaragua Sorensen, Theodore C., Special Counsel to the President Stevenson, Adlai E., Permanent Representative at the United Nations from January 1961 Taylor, General Maxwell D., Chairman of the Cuba Study Group, April-June 1961; President's Military Representative from July 1961 Thompson, Llewellyn, Ambassador to the Soviet Union Wheeler, Lieutenant General Earle G., Director of the Joint Staff, Joint Chiefs of Staff White, General Thomas D., Chief of Staff of the Air Force until June 1961 Woodward, Robert F., Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs, July 1961-March 1962 Ydigoras Fuentes, General Miguel, President of Guatemala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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