Was there a small white dog in the limo?

[Jack White]

Two questions.

1, Where did the dog come from? Jackie certainly doesn't have it at Love field. Nor do any of the retinue appear to be carrying a dog.

2, Where did the dog go to after the assassination, it couldn't have simply disappeared.

I have no doubt that Jean Hill saw something that she took to be a small dog, but in all the excitement who could quible about a misidentification.

Steve....we KNOW there was NO DOG in the limo. If so it would have certainly

made news strories and photographers would have shot numerous photos.

However, Jean Hill reported seeing SOMETHING that JACKIE WAS HOLDING UP

AND SHOWING TO JFK and he seemed amused by it. What Jean saw her holding

up "between them" is unknown. But it seems unlikely he would have been amused

by flowers. It was likely something more whimsical. I heard Jean tell this story

five or six times without variation. She saw "something"...we just do not know what.

She never retracted the story, ever. But she did say she was sorry she ever mentioned

it...because it made for much ridicule.

Jack

[Bill Miller]

However, Jean Hill reported seeing SOMETHING that JACKIE WAS HOLDING UP

AND SHOWING TO JFK and he seemed amused by it. What Jean saw her holding

up "between them" is unknown. But it seems unlikely he would have been amused

by flowers. It was likely something more whimsical. I heard Jean tell this story

five or six times without variation. She saw "something"...we just do not know what.

She never retracted the story, ever. But she did say she was sorry she ever mentioned

it...because it made for much ridicule.

Jack

If a may enterject by attempting to offer a little observation here to this fascinating mystery ...

Jean Hill said that she had stepped into the street and yelled out for the President to look her way, which according to Jean - JFK did turn to look to her side of the street. Jean said in her book that she didn't know if the President had actually heard her or not or was just turning to the people on both sides of the street, but JFK did turn in her direction. Jackie Kennedy is looking towards the south side of Elm Street as well, thus this is not the point in time where Jean saw the Presidential couple facing one another. So when was it? It could not have been before Z161 because the Croft photo shows Jackie still looking towards the south side of Elm Street. It could not have been before Z202 when the first shot has been heard because JFK is looking to the nouth side of Elm Street. In fact, the only time that JFK and Jackie are facing each other is after the President has been hit. That is when Jackie has raised her white gloves to take hold of the President's forearm. Altgens #6 photo shows what that posture of the Presidential couple looked like and at that point JFK would not be finding anything amusing, nor is Jack holding onto anything but her husband. So again we have Jean offering her impression of what she saw during those few brief moments - no more or no less. So the evidence seems to point to Jean's false interpretation of the event. Maybe to Jean she thought JFK looked to be amused. Jackie said JFK looked to have an expression like that of having a slight headache, so it seems that one woman's interpretation of looking amused is another woman's interpretation of someone having a headache. The point being is that no matter how Jean interpreted what she saw ... JFK was now shot and Jackie wasn't interested in showing off flowers or a stuffed toy to her husband. So again, Jean was not lying, but had only described what her impression was concerning those few brief moments in time, which are n ot supported by the evidence, but not supported by logic and sound reasonable hindsight, as well.

Below is a crop from Altgens #6 photo taken from the street. Jean's angle of this event would be slightly different. Perhaps the flag blocked part of her view ... maybe Greer hindered Jean seeing what the white gloves of Jackie was actuly holding - who knows? The fact is that in reality - Jackie was not holding anything up for JFK to see during the entire ride down Elm Street.

Bill Miller

Edited August 7, 2006 by Bill Miller

[Jack White]

However, Jean Hill reported seeing SOMETHING that JACKIE WAS HOLDING UP

AND SHOWING TO JFK and he seemed amused by it. What Jean saw her holding

up "between them" is unknown. But it seems unlikely he would have been amused

by flowers. It was likely something more whimsical. I heard Jean tell this story

five or six times without variation. She saw "something"...we just do not know what.

She never retracted the story, ever. But she did say she was sorry she ever mentioned

it...because it made for much ridicule.

Jack

If a may enterject by attempting to offer a little observation here to this fascinating mystery ...

Jean Hill said that she had stepped into the street and yelled out for the President to look her way, which according to Jean - JFK did turn to look to her side of the street. Jean said in her book that she didn't know if the President had actually heard her or not or was just turning to the people on both sides of the street, but JFK did turn in her direction. Jackie Kennedy is looking towards the south side of Elm Street as well, thus this is not the point in time where Jean saw the Presidential couple facing one another. So when was it? It could not have been before Z161 because the Croft photo shows Jackie still looking towards the south side of Elm Street. It could not have been before Z202 when the first shot has been heard because JFK is looking to the nouth side of Elm Street. In fact, the only time that JFK and Jackie are facing each other is after the President has been hit. That is when Jackie has raised her white gloves to take hold of the President's forearm. Altgens #6 photo shows what that posture of the Presidential couple looked like and at that point JFK would not be finding anything amusing, nor is Jack holding onto anything but her husband. So again we have Jean offering her impression of what she saw during those few brief moments - no more or no less. So the evidence seems to point to Jean's false interpretation of the event. Maybe to Jean she thought JFK looked to be amused. Jackie said JFK looked to have an expression like that of having a slight headache, so it seems that one woman's interpretation of looking amused is another woman's interpretation of someone having a headache. The point being is that no matter how Jean interpreted what she saw ... JFK was now shot and Jackie wasn't interested in showing off flowers or a stuffed toy to her husband. So again, Jean was not lying, but had only described what her impression was concerning those few brief moments in time, which are n ot supported by the evidence, but not supported by logic and sound reasonable hindsight, as well.

Below is a crop from Altgens #6 photo taken from the street. Jean's angle of this event would be slightly different. Perhaps the flag blocked part of her view ... maybe Greer hindered Jean seeing what the white gloves of Jackie was actuly holding - who knows? The fact is that in reality - Jackie was not holding anything up for JFK to see during the entire ride down Elm Street.

Bill Miller

"Miller" cites as evidence the Zapruder film for what Jean Hill could see.

The Z film is not genuine, so we do not know what was happening in the limo.

Jack

[Paul Rigby]

Two questions.

1, Where did the dog come from? Jackie certainly doesn't have it at Love field. Nor do any of the retinue appear to be carrying a dog.

2, Where did the dog go to after the assassination, it couldn't have simply disappeared.

I have no doubt that Jean Hill saw something that she took to be a small dog, but in all the excitement who could quible about a misidentification.

Stephen,

God knows if this is germane, but your question reminded me of this curio from the testimony of a Scotsman on Elm, Robert Henderson. Reportedly a Glaswegian WWII veteran holidaying in Dallas. With wife and daughter, took grandson, Roddy, to see presidential motorcade:

“I Saw the Kennedy Killing,” The Weekly News (Manchester), 30 November 1963, p.8:

“We settled for a spot on Elm Street. There weren’t all that many people around and it was easy to get a place by the kerbside…The President was sitting in the side of the car nearest us…The car stopped momentarily [after first shot – PR]…Then everything seemed to happen at once”

“A stray dog wandered into the roadway” before shooting began. After shooting, “The dog that had been wandering about in the road was still there.”

A cynic might wonder if this was part of an early - and early abandonned - attempt to explain the stop on Elm.

Fortunately, I am not a cynic.

Two questions.

1, Where did the dog come from? Jackie certainly doesn't have it at Love field. Nor do any of the retinue appear to be carrying a dog.

2, Where did the dog go to after the assassination, it couldn't have simply disappeared.

I have no doubt that Jean Hill saw something that she took to be a small dog, but in all the excitement who could quible about a misidentification.

Stephen,

God knows if this is germane, but your question reminded me of this curio from the testimony of a Scotsman on Elm, Robert Henderson. Reportedly a Glaswegian WWII veteran holidaying in Dallas. With wife and daughter, took grandson, Roddy, to see presidential motorcade:

“I Saw the Kennedy Killing,” The Weekly News (Manchester), 30 November 1963, p.8:

“We settled for a spot on Elm Street. There weren’t all that many people around and it was easy to get a place by the kerbside…The President was sitting in the side of the car nearest us…The car stopped momentarily [after first shot – PR]…Then everything seemed to happen at once”

“A stray dog wandered into the roadway” before shooting began. After shooting, “The dog that had been wandering about in the road was still there.”

A cynic might wonder if this was part of an early - and early abandonned - attempt to explain the stop on Elm.

Fortunately, I am not a cynic.

I remember now why I thought it relevant:

Stephen Barber, “President Kennedy Is Assassinated,” Daily Telegraph, Saturday (4 am edition, reprint), 23 November 1963, p.1:

“A woman witness, Mrs. Jean Hill, said in a radio interview that the President and Mrs. Kennedy were looking at a dog in the middle of the road, near an underpass, when the shoots rang out. She said: “There were three shots. He grabbed his chest and fell over his seat, and Jackie fell over him.”

“Murder Charge Lodged,” Dallas Times Herald, 23 November 1963, p.8:

“The President passed directly in front of us on our side of the street,” Mrs. Hill said.

[Chris Davidson]

Two questions.

1, Where did the dog come from? Jackie certainly doesn't have it at Love field. Nor do any of the retinue appear to be carrying a dog.

2, Where did the dog go to after the assassination, it couldn't have simply disappeared.

I have no doubt that Jean Hill saw something that she took to be a small dog, but in all the excitement who could quible about a misidentification.

Stephen,

God knows if this is germane, but your question reminded me of this curio from the testimony of a Scotsman on Elm, Robert Henderson. Reportedly a Glaswegian WWII veteran holidaying in Dallas. With wife and daughter, took grandson, Roddy, to see presidential motorcade:

“I Saw the Kennedy Killing,” The Weekly News (Manchester), 30 November 1963, p.8:

“We settled for a spot on Elm Street. There weren’t all that many people around and it was easy to get a place by the kerbside…The President was sitting in the side of the car nearest us…The car stopped momentarily [after first shot – PR]…Then everything seemed to happen at once”

“A stray dog wandered into the roadway” before shooting began. After shooting, “The dog that had been wandering about in the road was still there.”

A cynic might wonder if this was part of an early - and early abandonned - attempt to explain the stop on Elm.

Fortunately, I am not a cynic.

Two questions.

1, Where did the dog come from? Jackie certainly doesn't have it at Love field. Nor do any of the retinue appear to be carrying a dog.

2, Where did the dog go to after the assassination, it couldn't have simply disappeared.

I have no doubt that Jean Hill saw something that she took to be a small dog, but in all the excitement who could quible about a misidentification.

Stephen,

God knows if this is germane, but your question reminded me of this curio from the testimony of a Scotsman on Elm, Robert Henderson. Reportedly a Glaswegian WWII veteran holidaying in Dallas. With wife and daughter, took grandson, Roddy, to see presidential motorcade:

“I Saw the Kennedy Killing,” The Weekly News (Manchester), 30 November 1963, p.8:

“We settled for a spot on Elm Street. There weren’t all that many people around and it was easy to get a place by the kerbside…The President was sitting in the side of the car nearest us…The car stopped momentarily [after first shot – PR]…Then everything seemed to happen at once”

“A stray dog wandered into the roadway” before shooting began. After shooting, “The dog that had been wandering about in the road was still there.”

A cynic might wonder if this was part of an early - and early abandonned - attempt to explain the stop on Elm.

Fortunately, I am not a cynic.

I remember now why I thought it relevant:

Stephen Barber, “President Kennedy Is Assassinated,” Daily Telegraph, Saturday (4 am edition, reprint), 23 November 1963, p.1:

“A woman witness, Mrs. Jean Hill, said in a radio interview that the President and Mrs. Kennedy were looking at a dog in the middle of the road, near an underpass, when the shoots rang out. She said: “There were three shots. He grabbed his chest and fell over his seat, and Jackie fell over him.”

“Murder Charge Lodged,” Dallas Times Herald, 23 November 1963, p.8:

“The President passed directly in front of us on our side of the street,” Mrs. Hill said.

For those that would like to hear Jean Hill's first interview, which was broadcast on NBC at 1:21 P.M Dallas

time on the day of the assassination, approx. 51 minutes after the shooting occured.

Here is a link to my instant web page.

http://cpe-70-95-198-200.san.res.rr.com/~steamn/

I believe there are other points in this interview that might need to be addressed.

chris

[Brendan Slattery]

Which is a bigger waste of time--this, or Clint Hill Shoegate?

[Paul Rigby]

Which is a bigger waste of time--this, or Clint Hill Shoegate?

The sad-sack who spots mobile Asters on Elm gets my vote.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Which is a bigger waste of time--this, or Clint Hill Shoegate?

They say even a busted clock is right twice a day, and once again I have to agree with Mr. Slattery.

Does anyone have any evidence that might help us to find out who killed JFK?

[Chris Davidson]

As one former Naval Officer saluting another former Naval Officer, I must assume that JBC knew full well what the "Left-Handed" salute actually represents.

"Tecumseh has become not only the "God of 2.0" -- the passing grade point average at the academy -- but also the idol to whom loyal midshipmen give prayers and sacrificial offerings of pennies. Midshipmen offer a left-handed salute in tribute to Tecumseh"

"For those unaware, a left handed salute from Kerry's time in grade was a rebllious insult intended to openly insult the person being saluted. It lowers the stature of the person saluting in that it exposes his belief in a hidden agenda being manifest openly with blatent disregard to any accountabilty."

Thomas,

I do not believe this was a salute.

The governor was taking his hat off.

Here's a video of it.

http://70.95.198.200:4944/JFK/

chris

[Bill Miller]

Thomas,

I do not believe this was a salute.

The governor was taking his hat off.

Here's a video of it.

http://70.95.198.200:4944/JFK/

chris

Thanks for posting the link, Chris. I had seen this clip before and did not have access to it. There is a lesson in all this and it is to not try and read too much into a still phgotograph when it comes to movement for it can be very misleading. In this case - an alleged death salute was nothing more than a tip of the hat from a southern gentlemen.

Bill Miller