Was JFK's Secret Service Detail compromised?

[Guest Eugene B. Connolly]

The night before/morning of JFK's assassination I read in

Jim Marrs' book that President Kennedy's Secret Service detail

had been drinking heavily (Pure Everclear alcohol).

Is it possible there was more than just alcohol involved?

Could there have been mind altering drugs administered somewhere

sometime during this drinking bout?

More sinisterly could there have been hypnosis or auto-suggestion techniques involved?

What if the Secret Service Detail had been manipulated?

For example the simple suggestion ' If you hear any sound such as gunshots or firecrackers - simply ignore them.

These are not important.' could have been

suggested.

This may seem outlandish or unreal.

But what better way to lay the groundwork for the assassination of the

President than to 'get at' his security detail?

Does anyone know how many and who of the Secret Service

assigned with the task of protecting the president had been

drinking or out at that bar - whose name is mentioned in Marrs' book?

Was the Secret Service agent Clint Hill there? I read also in Marrs that he was a last minute

addition because Jackie had wanted him there. Could this account for

his quick relexes ( the fact that he had not been out the night before)?

Could the slow and almost non-existent reactions of the others be evidence

of the fact that they had been out - and perhaps manipulated?

Does anyone have any information on this?

EBC

Edited December 6, 2006 by Eugene B. Connolly

[Ashton Gray]

The night before/morning of JFK's assassination I read in

Jim Marrs' book that President Kennedy's Secret Service detail

had been drinking heavily (Pure Everclear alcohol).

Is it possible there was more than just alcohol involved?

Could there have been mind altering drugs administered somewhere

sometime during this drinking bout?

More sinisterly could there have been hypnosis or auto-suggestion techniques involved?

What if the Secret Service Detail had been manipulated?

For example the simple suggestion ' If you hear any sound such as gunshots or firecrackers - simply ignore them.

These are not important.' could have been

suggested.

This may seem outlandish or unreal.

But what better way to lay the groundwork for the assassination of the

President than to 'get at' his security detail?

Does anyone know how many and who of the Secret Service

assigned with the task of protecting the president had been

drinking or out at that bar - whose name is mentioned in Marrs' book?

Was the Secret Service agent Clint Hill there? I read also in Marrs that he was a last minute

addition because Jackie had wanted him there. Could this account for

his quick relexes ( the fact that he had not been out the night before)?

Could the slow and almost non-existent reactions of the others be evidence

of the fact that they had been out - and perhaps manipulated?

Does anyone have any information on this?

EBC

I'm not able to answer your specific question, but I believe this is an important topic in relation to the Kennedy assassination, perhaps not only limited to possible affects on SS personnel.

I have very limited time and will try to get more specific cites when I have more time, but wanted to mention that 1963 is the year of a CIA Inspector General's report that said in part that MKULTRA was a program "concerned with research and development of chemical, biological, and radiological materials capable of employment in clandestine operations to control human behavior." The IG report said that "additional avenues to the control of human behavior had been designated...as appropriate to investigation under the MKULTRA charter, including radiation, electroshock, various fields of psychology, sociology, and anthropology, graphology, harassment substances, and paramilitary devices and materials." The program as described (and supported by other CIA documents) included unwitting experimentation on humans with LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide), brainwashing, and other interrogation methods.

Of course the CIA primarily is in the business of lying and putting the best possible spin on everything dirty it does, so the "interrogation" mantle can be taken however one wishes, but there was one CIA publication of limited distribution that year (not declassified until much later, redacted, and probably not the original anyway) called “KUBARK [Codename for CIA headquarters] COUNTERINTELLIGENCE INTERROGATION—July 1963." Among other tactics described for "coercive" interrogation of "resistant sources" (including drugs and torture) is hypnosis.

Ashton

Edited December 6, 2006 by Ashton Gray

[Peter McGuire]

In my opinion , that idea is not too far fetched , considering that ten Secret Service Agents, including Kellerman and Greer in the Presidential Limousine and eight more Agents in the follow up car did nothing when the shot rang out. There was even a missed shot, which, had Oswald not tested negative on the parifin test, I would have thought he had fired a "warning shot". It seems someone may have. But regarding the Secret Service Agents, how anyone could act that way , is beyond me , and the most disturbing aspect of this tragedy.

Edited December 7, 2006 by Peter McGuire

[Myra Bronstein]

The night before/morning of JFK's assassination I read in

Jim Marrs' book that President Kennedy's Secret Service detail

had been drinking heavily (Pure Everclear alcohol).

Is it possible there was more than just alcohol involved?

Could there have been mind altering drugs administered somewhere

sometime during this drinking bout?

More sinisterly could there have been hypnosis or auto-suggestion techniques involved?

What if the Secret Service Detail had been manipulated?

For example the simple suggestion ' If you hear any sound such as gunshots or firecrackers - simply ignore them.

These are not important.' could have been

suggested.

This may seem outlandish or unreal.

But what better way to lay the groundwork for the assassination of the

President than to 'get at' his security detail?

Does anyone know how many and who of the Secret Service

assigned with the task of protecting the president had been

drinking or out at that bar - whose name is mentioned in Marrs' book?

Was the Secret Service agent Clint Hill there? I read also in Marrs that he was a last minute

addition because Jackie had wanted him there. Could this account for

his quick relexes ( the fact that he had not been out the night before)?

Could the slow and almost non-existent reactions of the others be evidence

of the fact that they had been out - and perhaps manipulated?

Does anyone have any information on this?

EBC

Hi Eugene,

Vincent Palamara names the SS agents known to have been out drinking the night before in his online book "Survivor's Guilt," which is devoted entirely to the Secret Service and their role in the assassination:

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v4n1.html

Clint Hill was one of the four agents known to have gone out that night. [Editorial aside: He's also known to have claimed he felt guilt over his inability to save President Kennedy. IMO his guilt was well-placed. He knew what he was doing the night before, and how it effected his work performance.]

However, Larry Hancock, in "Someone Would Have Talked," 2nd edition, has this to say on page 386:

"The evening before the assassination, the majority of the Secret service detail stayed out at a club until the early morning hours -- 2 to 3 AM and later. Although only a few members admitted to drinking alcohol, at a minimum, their effectiveness was reduced by the late hours and lack of sleep.... Although the drinking incident was investigated by the Secret Service, no disciplinary action was taken and the details (and people) invoved in the genesis of the incident are cloudy at best....Hill's comments suggest that more of the agents were actually drinking than is reflected in the internal Secret Service report on the incident."

I think you make a really interesting observation that it's possible there was more than alcohol in the drinks. Very possible... Not at all outlandandish. (Seems too brief a period for good ol' mind control, but hey, all possible.)

In my opinion , that idea is not too far fetched , considering that ten Secret Service Agents, including Kellerman and Greer in the Presidential Limousine and eight more Agents in the follow up car did nothing during the heart of the shooting. How anyone could act that way , is beyond me , and the most disturbing aspect of this tragedy.

The secret service's abandonment of President Kennedy is one of the most disturbing aspects to me. Larry Hancock makes clear that the President knew about the threats on his life, but totally trusted his secret service to protect him....

Those "agents" are just disgusting. They went out drinking, got zero or little sleep, did not secure Dealey Plaza, just stood around watching him die, yet nobody was disciplined or fired. Bastards.

[Ron Ecker]

There was also the SS meeting with the DPD the night before, in which the SS changed the DPD's motorcycle plan, in effect removing all motorcycles from in front of and beside the limo. This action is not speculation and had nothing to do with mind control or putting something in drinks. It was security stripping pure and simple.

[Myra Bronstein]

There was also the SS meeting with the DPD the night before, in which the SS changed the DPD's motorcycle plan, in effect removing all motorcycles from in front of and beside the limo. This action is not speculation and had nothing to do with mind control or putting something in drinks. It was security stripping pure and simple.

There was? Woah. If you could point me to a source on that I'd appreciate it Ron. (Palamara?)

[Ron Ecker]

You can go to the following link for Palamara's discussion of this including references. At the link scroll down to "Security Stripping #2." See also "Security Stripping #3," regarding the absence of the usual press truck in front of the limo. Apparently this press truck and not motorcycles would have been directly in front of the limo.

See also "Security Stripping #4," which involved a DPD car that was to be directly behind the limo, and was removed by the SS.

http://jfkassassination.net/parnell/vpal5.txt

[Evan Marshall]

You can go to the following link for Palamara's discussion of this including references. At the link scroll down to "Security Stripping #2." See also "Security Stripping #3," regarding the absence of the usual press truck in front of the limo. Apparently this press truck and not motorcycles would have been directly in front of the limo.

See also "Security Stripping #4," which involved a DPD car that was to be directly behind the limo, and was removed by the SS.

http://jfkassassination.net/parnell/vpal5.txt

let's not make it unworkable-there is not a need to have 40 SS agents compromised. Let's remember none of them had been fired on before and unfortunately assignments were often granted by senority and a younger man behind the wheel might have made all the difference. do I believe there was some SS complicity-yes, but it only required one or two not a legion.

I've worked a number of protective details and done alot of executive protection training-it would take a very few members of a protective detail to lose a principal.

[Ron Ecker]

do I believe there was some SS complicity-yes, but it only required one or two not a legion.

I agree. Most of the work was done at the meeting with the DPD the night of 11/21, and at Love Field with the last-minute shuffling of cars and people, removal of the press truck, etc. This took no more than 3 or 4 agents.

[Robert Howard]

do I believe there was some SS complicity-yes, but it only required one or two not a legion.

I agree. Most of the work was done at the meeting with the DPD the night of 11/21, and at Love Field with the last-minute shuffling of cars and people, removal of the press truck, etc. This took no more than 3 or 4 agents.

The subject iof the Secret Service and it's performance, [or lack thereof,] has always been controversial and rightly so, to me the most obvious items would be the "guy's nite out," at the Cellar in Ft. Worth, the Secret Service's participation in advance security matters, [i am probably one of the few individuals, in the camp that if Lee Oswald had not been working at the TSBD, the assassination would probably have taken place at the Trade Mart] and last but not least, the following document summary Joe Backes did in his 1st thru 13th? Batch analysis of de-classified documents.

The following is from Joe Backes 10th Batch

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...rrb_tenth2.html

Document # 1870-10099-10491 is an eight page summary report of an interview with SA William Greer.

Greer's proximity to President's goes back to 1944 when as navy seaman he was attached to the Presidential yacht U.S.S. Potomac during the third term of F.D.R. When he left the Navy on September 18, 1945 he had planned to enter the Secret Service and did so on October first of that year. He became part of the uniformed force at the White House.

During World War II Greer said the Secret Service took over the actual driving functions at the White House. Prior to that time the President had his own personal chauffeur. Secret Service handled the presidential protection and back up car but not until the war did they actually drive the President's vehicle, according to Greer.

A day or two after the attack on Truman, Greer was transferred as an agent to driver.

In 1963 Greer was listed as agent/driver for President Kennedy on three trips in November: Chicago on 11/2; Miami on 11/18 and Dallas on 11/22.

Anybody find that interesting?

[Ron Ecker]

I believe that Greer was a driver for JFK before the November trips, though I don't know how often. I remember someone posting a photo of JFK and his family that included Greer, presumably as their driver, as there was a limo in the photo.

[Peter McGuire]

"In 1963 Greer was listed as agent/driver for President Kennedy on three trips in November: Chicago on 11/2; Miami on 11/18 and Dallas on 11/22."

"Anybody find that interesting?"

It looks to me like the dates of two foiled assassantion plots and the one that succeeded.

Edited December 7, 2006 by Peter McGuire

[Guest Eugene B. Connolly]

Thank you all very much for your input.

A final question: Is there any evidence that Jack Ruby or David Ferrie were present at this drinking 'session'? If memory serves...I recall reading that Jack Ruby knew the owner of the bar where the Secret Service drank the night before/morning of the assassination. Would it be fair to say that Jack Ruby may have visited the place on occasion and indeed probably at the time in question?

EBC

[Ron Ecker]

See also "Security Stripping #3," regarding the absence of the usual press truck in front

of the limo.

Gary Mack has advised that there was no press truck at Love Field, and that none

of the Texas motorcades had photographers in front.

There was certainly no press truck in front in the Tampa, Florida motorcade. Three

motorcycles in front and two flanking the front:

Compare the motorcycle deployment in Dallas:

Edited December 7, 2006 by Ron Ecker

[Peter McGuire]

I believe that Greer was a driver for JFK before the November trips, though I don't know how often. I remember someone posting a photo of JFK and his family that included Greer, presumably as their driver, as there was a limo in the photo.

This may be the photo you are referring to:

William Greer and his watchful eye guarding President Kennedy.