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Cubans Packin' In The Plaza


Ed LeDoux
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Moved from John Dolvas "Shot From The North" thread:

Ed,

Great post. Although I can't make out a "couple" in the second photo, I do want to thank you for posting both photos at the same time. I for one never realized that the same guy is in both of them. In the first photo, not only does it look like he's carrying something sizeable and rigid under his jacket, but there seems to be something sticking up out of his right rear pocket which is concealed by his untucked-in shirt, and he looks like he might even be talking into or listening to a walkie-talkie/radio in his left hand! Speaking of untucked-in shirts, I think this is the only guy I've seen a photo of who was in Dealy Plaza right before or right after the asassination whose shirt wasn't tucked in. Maybe back in '63 in conservative Dallas, it was considered to be in "bad taste" or evidence of an uncultured upbringing to wear one's shirt untucked-in, especially in the presence of the President and his beautiful wife? If my theory is correct, then maybe the only reason this guy was walking around with his shirt untucked-in, at the risk of appearing rather boorish, was to conceal something, perhaps something very much like that which is easy to discern, as pointed out by Ron Ecker in another thread, in the photos of "Dark Complected Man" (DCM) walking down the sidewalk after sitting next to "Umbrella Man" on the curb, talking into a walkie-talkie/radio as he sits there looking down Elm Street after the "hit." Hmmm... If this guy in the two photos you posted was a conspirator, then maybe he and the guys he's shown talking with in the second photo aren't American "Negroes" after all, but dark-complected Cubans instead? Or even better, maybe he's "mingling" for a few minutes with some Afro-Americans in order to blend in and, so to speak, "disappear?"

It's interesting to note that the bottoms of the guy's jeans(?) legs seem to be rolled up, making impromptu cuffs as if he's really poor or a real "hick." Maybe his controller told him to do that do that, in order to "complement" the goucheness of his untucked-in shirt, thereby making the concealing of the thing in his back pocket somehow less obvious???

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Are these two the black couple that was seen by Sitzman having lunch on the bench by the cupola/retaining wall.

Perhaps they are actually Cuban not African-Americans.

What is in his jacket?

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Ed,

I'm in a quandry in that, although I think you've done us a great service by posting both of these photos at the same time (showing a dark-complected guy carrying something under his jacket in both of them, and something squarish sticking out of his back right pocket under his shirt in the first one), for the life of me I don't see "a couple" (defined as this guy and a woman together?) in either of the photos. What do you mean in the context of these photos by a "couple?" Maybe I should get some stronger glasses. LOL

Thanks,

--Thomas

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Edited by Thomas Graves
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Thomas,

Do you see the lady slightly forward and right of him with her hands on her hip in the top image?

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Ed,

If you're referring to the person who is completely inside the oval you drew and who has hands on hips, IMHO that's a man. If you're referring to the person who is only 1/3- 1/2 inside the oval and who is farther down the knoll and to the right of the guy we've been talking about, IMHO that's probably a man, too, because he/she seems to be wearing a man's hat.

--Thomas

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Edited by Thomas Graves
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Moved from John Dolvas "Shot From The North" thread:

Ed,

Great post. Although I can't make out a "couple" in the second photo, I do want to thank you for posting both photos at the same time. I for one never realized that the same guy is in both of them. In the first photo, not only does it look like he's carrying something sizeable and rigid under his jacket, but there seems to be something sticking up out of his right rear pocket which is concealed by his untucked-in shirt, and he looks like he might even be talking into or listening to a walkie-talkie/radio in his left hand! Speaking of untucked-in shirts, I think this is the only guy I've seen a photo of who was in Dealy Plaza right before or right after the asassination whose shirt wasn't tucked in. Maybe back in '63 in conservative Dallas, it was considered to be in "bad taste" or evidence of an uncultured upbringing to wear one's shirt untucked-in, especially in the presence of the President and his beautiful wife? If my theory is correct, then maybe the only reason this guy was walking around with his shirt untucked-in, at the risk of appearing rather boorish, was to conceal something, perhaps something very much like that which is easy to discern, as pointed out by Ron Ecker in another thread, in the photos of "Dark Complected Man" (DCM) walking down the sidewalk after sitting next to "Umbrella Man" on the curb, talking into a walkie-talkie/radio as he sits there looking down Elm Street after the "hit." Hmmm... If this guy in the two photos you posted was a conspirator, then maybe he and the guys he's shown talking with in the second photo aren't American "Negroes" after all, but dark-complected Cubans instead? Or even better, maybe he's "mingling" for a few minutes with some Afro-Americans in order to blend in and, so to speak, "disappear?"

It's interesting to note that the bottoms of the guy's jeans(?) legs seem to be rolled up, making impromptu cuffs as if he's really poor or a real "hick." Maybe his controller told him to do that do that, in order to "complement" the goucheness of his untucked-in shirt, thereby making the concealing of the thing in his back pocket somehow less obvious???

____________________________________________

Does anyone besides me think that the points I tried to make in this earlier post are more important than whether or not the person completely inside the red oval (n the upper of the two photos) with hands on hips is a man or a woman???

(FWIW, I think it's a man. lol )

--Thomas

____________________________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Does anyone besides me think that the points I tried to make in this earlier post are more important than whether or not the person completely inside the red oval (n the upper of the two photos) with hands on hips is a man or a woman???

(FWIW, I think it's a man. lol )

--Thomas

If you wanted to discuss the other points why did you keep asking me who is a woman and who is a guy and nothing about whats in the jacket or how he maybe cuban, etc.,???

I don't mind speculating on gender but yes other things are more relevant. So don't complain when you are the one who messaged me twice about who is a guy or girl. LOL If you don't think its a female great.

Next.

Can we get back on topic about the jacket and what he has in it?

First is it a jacket? The back portion looks like a sleeve with a cuff.

Or maybe its a "blanket" he borrowed from Oswald. :cheers

He could be listening to something or just scratching.

Are the others he is talking to a group of workers, like Cabbies or Bus Drivers?

Ideas?

Ed

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Ed.

This one has been going around the forums for some time.

I also have posted that i beleive the men in both photo's to be the same man.

I beleive he is carrying a jacket, and in a good blow up something can be seen in his backpocket pushing his shirt out.

For what it's worth i also think the couple you have circled are two men, where i beleive Sitzman stated she saw a young black couple " Man/Woman "

Lots of interesting faces in the Murray pic below.

The cops on the left of the image who were photographed on the grass looking at the mark showing the bullet strike.

The woman who can be seen in the other Murry photo standing with the Jack Ruby look alike on the TSBD doorstep.

I could spend hours going over just this one photo, very interesting.

Edited by Robin Unger
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This guy strolling down the knoll has been of interest to me for some time now mainly because of that interesting bulge in his right rear pocket. Could this man have been the person DCM was speaking with (via radio) while seated at the curb?

James

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Robin and James,

Thanks for "weighing in." I agree with both of you, and I definitely think the guy strolling down the knoll with his left hand up to his ear was one of the conspirators...

--Thomas

__________________________________

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  • 8 years later...

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