Animated Gif's

[Chris Davidson]

Is there an appropriate/agreed upon speed for creating animated gif's?

Should it be related somehow, to the original film's FPS?

Any suggestion's appreciated,

thanks,

chris

P.S.

David, here is Dr. Costella's frame's 284/285 compared with some I took.

I think this is a more reasonable speed, but I'm just a novice.

Leftside is with the car's stabilized.

Rightside is the people stabilized.

Slowed down much more than the MPI's I previously posted.

[John Dolva]

Chris, what I do is take whatever the fps is and invert it to get millisecond and then round that to 3 decimal points. Then I multiply that by an integer usually 2 sometimes 4 to slow it to something more viewable. It may be an idea of always just mention what multiple is used, I'll try to remember that.

[Chris Davidson]

Chris, what I do is take whatever the fps is and invert it to get millisecond and then round that to 3 decimal points. Then I multiply that by an integer usually 2 sometimes 4 to slow it to something more viewable. It may be an idea of always just mention what multiple is used, I'll try to remember that.

Thanks John,

The gif you posted of the limo rocking back and forth from Groden, how was that done if you have a quick explanation?

I took what I thought was the same two frames, stabilized the limo and Newman's and get this.

chris

Edited January 12, 2007 by Chris Davidson

[John Dolva]

Ok, I did that (stabilised on people and concrete wall etc(at 2x 1/fps)) and noticed the lawn swinging back and forth and up and down. So, I, after trying to puzzle that out I selected the area least likely to be affected by lens distortion, the center area, and realising that babushkas head moves and appears to move from blur, I ignored her and focused on just the lawn immediately beyond her and looked for matching points on the lawn and aligned there. So then I figured that the big jump is caused by her moving in some way in 3d space. The localised alignment seems to be there when the line in the lawn is placed over each other on the two frames. I think I'm a bit off but let that stand as the main reason was to make a point.

I think the same conclusions can be made by studying your (excellent) gifs as well, except various shifts are harder to pick. Partly that is just a matter of scale.

edit: that first post gif makes me think someone should cobble together an virtual metronome with (or wthout) sound

Edited January 12, 2007 by John Dolva

[Frank Agbat]

A couple of quick notes on Animated GIF files.

1) They have a limited color palette. Even when the palette is optimized, it is still very lossy

2) They were never intended to show videos, per se. They can do so because newer computers are so fast that they can flip the gif frames at an acceptable rate.

3) The frame rate is somewhat relative. If the target computer cannot render the images sufficiently quickly, the speed of the animation will change. Likewise, if you set the "delay" field in the GIF to zero, the target computer will render it at either the best available speed OR the maximum speed that a given browser/image viewer will allow.

4) Speaking of image viewers -- animated GIFs are rarely viewed in software that has been optimized for video, etc. They may run in the same thread (and at the same priority) as the browser or the browser UI. This, again, makes framerates hard to verify.

In summary, Animated GIF files are very useful for showing concepts, etc, but should not be used for anything that needs precise colors, precise frame rates, etc.

[Chris Davidson]

A couple of quick notes on Animated GIF files.

1) They have a limited color palette. Even when the palette is optimized, it is still very lossy

2) They were never intended to show videos, per se. They can do so because newer computers are so fast that they can flip the gif frames at an acceptable rate.

3) The frame rate is somewhat relative. If the target computer cannot render the images sufficiently quickly, the speed of the animation will change. Likewise, if you set the "delay" field in the GIF to zero, the target computer will render it at either the best available speed OR the maximum speed that a given browser/image viewer will allow.

4) Speaking of image viewers -- animated GIFs are rarely viewed in software that has been optimized for video, etc. They may run in the same thread (and at the same priority) as the browser or the browser UI. This, again, makes framerates hard to verify.

In summary, Animated GIF files are very useful for showing concepts, etc, but should not be used for anything that needs precise colors, precise frame rates, etc.

Frank/John, thank you for the additional information.

You might find this next one rather interesting.

Watch Brehm/Babushka in sync.

They move at the same angle and at the same speed.

Brehm's child NEVER STEPS (legs always apart) to the side of Brehm and appears, it's as if he's uncovered, as a (left to right) slanting of the adults occurs.

For the most part, Zapruder films from the same angle according to the red lines.

chris

Updated

Forgot frame 284 in gif. Included now.

Edited January 12, 2007 by Chris Davidson

[Bill Miller]

You might find this next one rather interesting.

Watch Brehm/Babushka in sync.

They move at the same angle and at the same speed.

Brehm's child NEVER STEPS (legs always apart) to the side of Brehm and appears, it's as if he's uncovered, as a (left to right) slanting of the adults occurs.

For the most part, Zapruder films from the same angle according to the red lines.

chris

The illusion that little Brehm moves out from behind his Dad can be best observed in Muchmore 's film. Charles Brehm turns his upper body as the limo passes by him and this is why from Zapruder's angle that little Joe becomes visibile without moving his legs. Ths was mentioned in the "Hoax" book as a sign of alteration, but in relality it was an illusion missed by all those participated in the writing of that book who hold PhD's or have optical printer experience.

[Robin Unger]

Chris.

While watching your GIF it apears that as Brehm straightens up young joey appears to lean forward and slightly to his right to try and see around his father.

Also my attention was drawn to the LONG shadows cast on the ground.

There must be a slight incline in the grassy area between Babushka's position and the curb of the road.

In this Muchmore frame Babushka casts a long shadow while the Brehms shadow is not visible, i gather from this that they are standing at a lower elevation than Babushka.

This may explain why Moorman looks so small compared to the others in some frames.

Like she has had her legs cut of at the bottom.

I take it from this she is simply standing on the other side of the rise in the grass from the Brehm/Babushka position.

Edited January 12, 2007 by Robin Unger

[Jack White]

Chris.

While watching your GIF it apears that as Brehm straightens up young joey appears to lean forward and slightly to his right to try and see around his father.

Also my attention was drawn to the LONG shadows cast on the ground.

There must be a slight incline in the grassy area between Babushka's position and the curb of the road.

In this Muchmore frame Babushka casts a long shadow while the Brehms shadow is not visible, i gather from this that they are standing at a lower elevation than Babushka.

This may explain why Moorman looks so small compared to the others in some frames.

Like she has had her legs cut of at the bottom.

I take it from this she is simply standing on the other side of the rise in the grass from the Brehm/Babushka position.

Moorman was standing in the gutter, just off the curb.

Jack

[Chris Davidson]

Chris.

While watching your GIF it apears that as Brehm straightens up young joey appears to lean forward and slightly to his right to try and see around his father.

Also my attention was drawn to the LONG shadows cast on the ground.

There must be a slight incline in the grassy area between Babushka's position and the curb of the road.

In this Muchmore frame Babushka casts a long shadow while the Brehms shadow is not visible, i gather from this that they are standing at a lower elevation than Babushka.

This may explain why Moorman looks so small compared to the others in some frames.

Like she has had her legs cut of at the bottom.

I take it from this she is simply standing on the other side of the rise in the grass from the Brehm/Babushka position.

Bill/Robin,

In the Z film, Brehm and Babushka move at the same speed, same direction and angle.

In Muchmore, Babushka moves into Brehm, and actually her angle movement is closer to the child's movement.

chris

P.S.

Will post a stabilized gif showing Babushka and child later, got to go.

[Robin Unger]

At that time of day the sun was casting LONG shadows.

Jack, if Moorman was standing of the curb i would have expected her shadow to have extended further out into the road.

I don't see it. !

In this frame Moorman and Hill both appear to be standing on the grass. !

Edited January 12, 2007 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Frames from the JFK dvd.

Edited January 12, 2007 by Robin Unger

[Bill Miller]

duplicate post deleted due to unresolved forum software problems

Edited January 13, 2007 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

Jack, if Moorman was standing of the curb i would have expected her shadow to have extended further out into the road.

I don't see it. !

Jack has so much invested in Moorman being in the street that he will continuing making hat claim in light of the evidence to the contrary just to keep from admitting that he was wrong. Moorm an has told Mark Oakes that Jack's claim is "silly".

Jack has claimed in the past that Mary and Jean Hill are in the street. He has been proved wrong even by Jean's own words on Black Op Radio where she said that she had stepped back out of the street before the first shot was heard.

Now Jack uses a Muchmore frame and says Mary Moorman is in the gutter. The gutter is approximately 9 inches deep, not counting the slope of the hill that Mary was standing on. That slope is why we see all of Jean Hill's shoes who is on top of it and not Brehm's or Moorman's who are closer to the curb ... and Jack still keeps beating that dead horse in hopes that it will grow new legs and start running again.

Go back and look at the Zapruder film and you can watch Willis and the woman next to him step back out of the street when the cycles close in. The reason they did this was to keep from getting clipped by the cycles passing by. All these things were pointed out well before 'Hoax' was written and Fetzer went ahead and allowed that crap to be published anyway. How can it be right to criticize the WC for pushing a lie if people like Jack continue to do the same?

Bill Miller

Edited January 13, 2007 by Bill Miller

[Frank Agbat]

Is there an appropriate/agreed upon speed for creating animated gif's?

Should it be related somehow, to the original film's FPS?

Chris,

I neglected to answer (or theorize, at least) on one of your main questions...

There are some limits to the precision with which animated GIFs can achieve framerates for reasons I mentioned below. However, using Adobe ImageReady to produce an Animated Gif, it allows me to set a "delay" of 0.05 seconds. This will result in a framerate around 20fps if the target computer can render the frames fast enough.

It did not allow me to add another decimal place of precision to get to 18 (or 18.3) frames per second. When I entered 0.055 (~18fps), the software rounded it back to 0.05... This may vary from application to application. I'd have to look back at the actual GIF spec to see how much precision is allowed. Oh -- and if the browser misinterprets this delay field, your framerate is shot anyway. However, when I'm trying for "close to actual speed" I use a delay of 0.05.