Robin Unger Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) To me this image appears to show a " FULL ON BULLET STRIKE " to the chrome trim. I see the perfect shape of a dent which appears to be produced from the NOSE of a bullet, it also appears that the shot was fired from a low trajectory bending the chrome trim UPWARD. I don't see how it is physically possible to do this from the sixth floor of a building ! Edited January 12, 2007 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stephen Turner Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Robin, if what you are propossing is correct the shot must have come from street level, from behind Kennedy, and by the impact it appears, from his right side. FWIW, Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Hynonen Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I'm sure Arlen Specter could add that dent to the doings of the good ole "magic" bullet. It must have bounced off of Connaly's wrist onto the chrome trim and back into Connaly's thigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael G. Smith Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I'm sure Arlen Specter could add that dent to the doings of the good ole "magic" bullet. It must have bounced off of Connaly's wrist onto the chrome trim and back into Connaly's thigh. From what I understand, from past readings, was that they stated the dent was "already there" from a previous "mishap" while working or servicing the limo. [i could be mistaken here] I tried to check all the photos I could from that day, from Love field to Dealey Plaza, and I havent found anything close up enough to see if it was there or not. Im sure, as most of you, that it was hit during the shooting. Maybe you have some good photos of the limo in your collection Robin? If so, please post them for us. I also agree with you as to the hit. It appears to be hit from the right side, low trajectory, in a slight upward strike. Just my opinion FWIW. thanks-smitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Hynonen Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Hi Smitty, Seemed like Pamela McElwain-Brown (forum member) knows just about everything pertaining to this vehicle, therefore likely also the answer to your question. I seriously doubt the dent was there before the limo got to Dealey Plaza. It would seem rather "unbelievable" if the official investigators were to claim that this rather obvious dent, most likely caused by a bullet, existed prior to Dallas. Then again, some entities never fail to surprise me. In otherwords, I don't recall hearing that theory. Michael G. Smith Posted Today, 01:43 PM QUOTE(Antti Hynonen @ Jan 12 2007, 03:21 PM) I'm sure Arlen Specter could add that dent to the doings of the good ole "magic" bullet. It must have bounced off of Connaly's wrist onto the chrome trim and back into Connaly's thigh. From what I understand, from past readings, was that they stated the dent was "already there" from a previous "mishap" while working or servicing the limo. [i could be mistaken here]I tried to check all the photos I could from that day, from Love field to Dealey Plaza, and I havent found anything close up enough to see if it was there or not. Im sure, as most of you, that it was hit during the shooting. Maybe you have some good photos of the limo in your collection Robin? If so, please post them for us. I also agree with you as to the hit. It appears to be hit from the right side, low trajectory, in a slight upward strike. Just my opinion FWIW. thanks-smitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Black Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) Hello Robin I am in agreement that it appears to be a bullet strike that had an upward trajectory. Although the SS claimed that this was an "old" indentation I cannot believe it. When I was in the military during this particular period of time, there were very accurate inspections to VIP military vehicles that were reported with written record. However, the SS could have forged such a report, as it seems highly unlikely to me that a "Presidntial Vehicle" would have been allowed out of the garage with such an obvious defect staring JFK in the face. It possibly could have been the result of a missed shot riccochet, tho the angle is extreme. At the risk of more forum members questioning my sanity, I will bore some of you with an earlier proposition of mine. There could have been more than one Elm Street spectator who was a shooter. It can certainly help explain an upward angled throat shot and a different upward angle chrome strip shot that "missed"..... from two separate shooters, wielding "concealed and silenced" handguns. "Concealed" and "silenced" are THE qualifying factors. This has been too easily dismissed. It is very doable, and most political assassination attempts have been both with handguns and from a very close range. I fail to see how so many, so readily, dismiss a very viable scenario ! You are CORRECT ! This has not been a major topic of discussion for 43 years! But I am correct when I propose that those "major topics" have not solved this case. Has anyone considered some new but sound and reasonable ideas? Or is that "too far out" ? I am willing to "bet the farm" that if this scenario were privately discussed among current or former intelligence officers, that it would in NO WAY be dimissed ! Charlie Black PS To further disgust some of you...in my bold opinion, this is why there have been excised frames from the Z film. Some "happening" on Elm Street had to be disguised ! Charlie Black Edited January 12, 2007 by Charles Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eugene B. Connolly Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 (edited) Here are a few enlargements of the bullet hole area. Hope these help. EBC Edited January 13, 2007 by Eugene B. Connolly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 I found this on Corbis. On the left of the bullet strike to the trim, the sun visor support strap seems to have snapped. Also note the spot of blood on the windsceen in between the visors. There is a companion photo to this one, and it shows blood on the windscreen and also on the visor mirror on Kellermans side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 quote: To me it seems very clear this [additional shot] was from the right...way to the right of the vehicle and not above the level of the trim and very likely from a little below. Peter. I would have to agree with that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 At the risk of more forum members questioning my sanity, I will bore some of you with an earlier proposition of mine. There could have been more than one Elm Street spectator who was a shooter.It can certainly help explain an upward angled throat shot and a different upward angle chrome strip shot that "missed"..... from two separate shooters, wielding "concealed and silenced" handguns. "Concealed" and "silenced" are THE qualifying factors. This has been too easily dismissed. It is very doable, and most political assassination attempts have been both with handguns and from a very close range. In another thread you theorized that a silenced handgun could have been used under cover of a camera, hat, magazine, etc. The only problem I see with this is the need to aim the weapon. A camera must be aimed, but how does one aim, say, a hat or magazine, to shoot a moving target, however close? Gunmen shoot from the hip only in movies. (I don't recall one ever shooting from his hat.) You argued that what you propose was easier and simpler than using, say, an umbrella, when in fact the umbrella gun was designed to be aimed though held like a normal umbrella. I would think that a handgun concealed in a camera would require one to be aiming a rather large camera, which might draw some attention. Indeed, a person wielding such a formidable camera should be visible in the Z film. Who among the observed Elm spectators are possible candidates, in your opinion, for a concealed-weapon gunman or gunmen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 (edited) You can see the top of the visor in the reflection on the under portion of the trim, so that part is angled away. The image shows a thorised trim-profile right inset. The edge of the trim profile runs roughly through the centre of the dent. The right corner of the bracket for the visor rods is bent out and down. The edge of the visor appears torn and marked(inset of left visor edge next to right visor for comparison. red line outline of visor edge when turned up and blue outline of left visor, Fragment ricochet hits visor bracket and then Kennedy in the throat??? Edited January 13, 2007 by John Dolva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 You can see the top of the visor in the reflection on the under portion of the trim, so that part is angled away. The image shows a thorised trim-profile right inset. The edge of the trim profile runs roughly through the centre of the dent. The right corner of the bracket for the visor rods is bent out and down. The edge of the visor appears torn and marked(inset of left visor edge next to right visor for comparison. red line outline of visor edge when turned up and blue outline of left visor, Fragment ricochet hits visor bracket and then Kennedy in the throat??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. William King Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 The only picture that I could find that has a view of the chrome strip is a fairly sharp version of the Weaver photo, which shows the limo on the turn from Main onto Houston. I see something that 'could' be a pre-existing dent in that area, but can't be sure. This is a crop of that photo. If someone could enhance this one, or use a better copy, it might help to answer some questions. JWK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cheslock Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 To me this image appears to show a " FULL ON BULLET STRIKE " to the chrome trim.I see the perfect shape of a dent which appears to be produced from the NOSE of a bullet, it also appears that the shot was fired from a low trajectory bending the chrome trim UPWARD. I don't see how it is physically possible to do this from the sixth floor of a building ! Robin Great photos of a very controversial issue. In the Z film, we can see the driver, Bill Greer, duck as if he thought he was going to be hit. He ducks his head as he is staring straight ahead. It's possible he heard the bullet hit the chrome directly over him and to his right. Bill C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael G. Smith Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 You can see the top of the visor in the reflection on the under portion of the trim, so that part is angled away. The image shows a thorised trim-profile right inset. The edge of the trim profile runs roughly through the centre of the dent. The right corner of the bracket for the visor rods is bent out and down. The edge of the visor appears torn and marked(inset of left visor edge next to right visor for comparison. red line outline of visor edge when turned up and blue outline of left visor, Fragment ricochet hits visor bracket and then Kennedy in the throat??? Robin, your photo in post #15, I assume is from Love field? If it isnt, do you know where it was at when taken? If it is from Love Field, I beleive you have the very proof needed to blow Specter away. From what can be seen in your photo, it looks straight and normal from what can be seen of it. If it is from L/Field, that is the best photo I have seen yet. I tried to find as many photos as I could years ago to prove this fact of it being hit, but most photos never really showed anything of value back then. If anyone else has anything showing the limo, at anytime during his Texas trip, please post them for us all to see. I will continue to look for the explanation they gave for the dent being there prior to the assassination. They positively assured everyone that the dent was there prior to Dallas, and had nothing to do with any shots. [LOL!] Thanks again for sharing your great photo collection with us all. -smitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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