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Anomalous object in A17 moonscape


Jack White
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Here is an odd object in an Apollo 17 moon photo. It appears to be

a small rectangular "frame" about 4x5, with an opening. It definitely

is not a lunar object. What is it?

This image is greatly enlarged and cropped, with added sharpness,

contrast, and pseudocolor. The file number is not necessary to

study the object. Opinions invited; insults will be ignored or brought

to the attention of moderators.

Jack

Image failed to attach. Will try again.

Edited by Jack White
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Here is an odd object in an Apollo 17 moon photo. It appears to be

a small rectangular "frame" about 4x5, with an opening. It definitely

is not a lunar object. What is it?

This image is greatly enlarged and cropped, with added sharpness,

contrast, and pseudocolor. The file number is not necessary to

study the object. Opinions invited; insults will be ignored or brought

to the attention of moderators.

Jack

Image failed to attach. Will try again.

Instead of posting more "research" how about admitting your gross error here:

Jacks failure to understand how a simple shadow works...

Edited by Craig Lamson
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I'm not sure what it is; it could be a throwoff from one of the lunar experiments, etc.

The image number would help to identify what was going on at that location and therefore the context.

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The file number is not necessary to

study the object. Opinions invited; insults will be ignored or brought

to the attention of moderators.

Instead of posting more "research" how about admitting your gross error here:

Jacks failure to understand how a simple shadow works...

Craig - The link doesn't work

Jack - Obviously being able to see the entire image and knowing the context and location in which it was taken are important for identifing the object.

Odd that a member who has called his opponents murderers, goverment agents and "assholes" would make such a comment about insults.

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I'm not sure what it is; it could be a throwoff from one of the lunar experiments, etc.

The image number would help to identify what was going on at that location and therefore the context.

Looking at the full image will not help. You may not even find the object I posted. But it is

there. Take a look:

AS17-145-22169

The object is not of lunar origin. I simply asked for opinions about what it is. All I get is insults from

Lamson and Colby.

Jack

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Here is an odd object in an Apollo 17 moon photo. It appears to be

a small rectangular "frame" about 4x5, with an opening. It definitely

is not a lunar object. What is it?

This image is greatly enlarged and cropped, with added sharpness,

contrast, and pseudocolor. The file number is not necessary to

study the object. Opinions invited; insults will be ignored or brought

to the attention of moderators.

Jack

Image failed to attach. Will try again.

Total guessing game without knowing the image itself, but since you invited opinions, I would guess it's a partial bootprint. It appears to have the same strucutre as other partial bootprints, and there are similar features at the bottom of the crop.

EDIT Just saw the ref number in your last post. I'm still going with partial bootprint. Will try and find some better resolution images though.

Edited by Dave Greer
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I've found some pretty conclusive evidence supporting the "partial bootprint" theory of mine. There's a photo apparently taken at the same time the bootprint was made.

The toe area of the astronauts left boot is exactly where the "artefact" identified by Jack is.

This is why we always need the mission/roll/frame number Jack - so we can examine all the evidence, not just a small crop.

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22158HR.jpg

22158.jpg

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I've found some pretty conclusive evidence supporting the "partial bootprint" theory of mine. There's a photo apparently taken at the same time the bootprint was made.

The toe area of the astronauts left boot is exactly where the "artefact" identified by Jack is.

This is why we always need the mission/roll/frame number Jack - so we can examine all the evidence, not just a small crop.

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22158HR.jpg

22158.jpg

Jack sez:

"The object is not of lunar origin."

I'm with you Dave, it is sure appears to be a simple impression in the lunar soil. Which would make it "of lunar origin".

This is a great object lesson showing how claims based on poor research and leaps of logic are not to be trusted.

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Please - keep it civil, gentlemen. Jack simply asked a question; his comment about "not a lunar object" I believe was based on the belief that the subject is an actual object. IMO, that is a fair call.

I think Dave is on the right track. It certainly could be a partial bootprint. It is roughly about the same size and shape as others in the full image.

Dave - you think 22158 shows the imprint being made? Could you show identifiable rocks, etc, in each of the images so we can confirm it is in the same location?

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Please - keep it civil, gentlemen. Jack simply asked a question; his comment about "not a lunar object" I believe was based on the belief that the subject is an actual object. IMO, that is a fair call.

I think Dave is on the right track. It certainly could be a partial bootprint. It is roughly about the same size and shape as others in the full image.

Dave - you think 22158 shows the imprint being made? Could you show identifiable rocks, etc, in each of the images so we can confirm it is in the same location?

I can indeeed. Will post again later today.

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Dave - you think 22158 shows the imprint being made? Could you show identifiable rocks, etc, in each of the images so we can confirm it is in the same location?

The photo in Jack's initial post is a crop of AS17-145-22169. The very next photo in the sequence is AS17-145-22170. The astronaut taking the photo (Gene Cernan) has turned slightly to his right to take this second photo - but we can still see the "object" Jack is asking about in this photo.

See the comparison below. I've circled the same features on each crop with the same colour. The feature we're discussing is circled in pink along with the rock it's next to, top left in each crop. Notice I've also highlighted two distinctive rocks visible in AS17-145-22170, labelled A and B.

first.jpg

Now, lets look at an earlier photo - AS17-145-22154. This was taken before Schmitt had walked into the scene (no bootprints visible). Cernan is standing slightly further back, and the camera is angled further downwards.

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22154HR.jpg

Comparing 22154 with 22170, we can see the A and B rock I identified previously (there are many other features available for comparison too - I'm trying to keep it simple). I've kept the same colouring convention. Note, two of the features I highlighted from 22169 are now obscured by the large rock that the gnomon is resting on. You can see the A and B rocks in the picture.

second.jpg

Here's a crop of the feature Jack initially highlighted, taken from a high-resolution version of AS17-145-22169, compared to crops of the same region from 22154 and 22155. Although these two are slightly out of focus, the feature Jack mentions in 22169 doesn't seem to be present in these two slightly earlier photos.

third.jpg

So where did this feature come from?

Look at this sequence of photos. They show Schmitt moving into the area being photographed.

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22156HR.jpg

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22157HR.jpg

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22158HR.jpg

Pay particular attention to the last photo - 22158.

22158.jpg

Here's a comparison of 22158 with 22169.

fourth.jpg

I've established that the photos in question show the same scene. In image 22154 (and 22155) Jack's feature is missing, and there are no other visible bootprints. 22156 and 22158, Schmitt is visible, along with several bootprints. In 22158 we have a photo taken as the toe end of Schmitt's left boot touches the exact area where Jack's "feature" in question is located. 22169 and 22170 show the feature, exactly where Schmitt's toe-end was in 22158 (along with more bootprints).

QED.

Edited by Dave Greer
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Interesting theories, but in no way conclusive.

The "object" does not resemble a bootprint.

There are no "other bootprints" leading to and

from it. Bootprints do not have a "right angle

edge" on one side. Nice try. No cigar.

Jack

QED? I don't think so unless you mean Quod Ego Dico. :ice

Edited by Jack White
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Interesting theories, but in no way conclusive.

The "object" does not resemble a bootprint.

There are no "other bootprints" leading to and

from it. Bootprints do not have a "right angle

edge" on one side. Nice try. No cigar.

Jack

QED? I don't think so unless you mean Quod Ego Dico. :ice

No cigar required since I don't smoke!

Firstly, it isn't an entire bootprint - it's from the toe-end of Schmitt's boot, as demonstrated below.

fourth.jpg

Secondly, there are plenty of bootprints leading both to and from it. See the following pictures:-

Schmitt moves towards the toe-print sideways (bootprints coming in from lower/middle left).

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22156HR.jpg

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22157HR.jpg

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22158HR.jpg

Schmitt moving away from the toe-print (more bootpirnts not visible in previous frames).

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22169HR.jpg

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22170HR.jpg

You can view the rover TV sequence of all this from here. As viewed from the rover, Schmitt is on the left, Cernan on the right.

Thirdly, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. The bottom of the tread pattern of the Apollo boots seems pretty much at right angles to me, i.e. the tread pattern is straight across the boot.

Jack, you stand by your studies, and I stand by mine, so if you still think this can't be a bootprint, we'll have to agree to disagree. Personally, I think the issue is a no-brainer: it looks like a partial bootprint; we have a photo showing the feature isn't there before Schmitt stands there; we have a photo of Schmitt's toe end exactly where the feature is; once he's moved away, we can now see the feature.

Any chance of defending your photographic claims on the other thread? :)

Edited by Dave Greer
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Interesting theories, but in no way conclusive.

The "object" does not resemble a bootprint.

There are no "other bootprints" leading to and

from it. Bootprints do not have a "right angle

edge" on one side. Nice try. No cigar.

Jack

QED? I don't think so unless you mean Quod Ego Dico. :ice

No cigar required since I don't smoke!

Firstly, it isn't an entire bootprint - it's from the toe-end of Schmitt's boot, as demonstrated below.

fourth.jpg

Secondly, there are plenty of bootprints leading both to and from it. See the following pictures:-

Schmitt moves towards the toe-print sideways (bootprints coming in from lower/middle left).

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22156HR.jpg

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22157HR.jpg

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22158HR.jpg

Schmitt moving away from the toe-print (more bootpirnts not visible in previous frames).

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22169HR.jpg

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22170HR.jpg

You can view the rover TV sequence of all this from here. As viewed from the rover, Schmitt is on the left, Cernan on the right.

Thirdly, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. The bottom of the tread pattern of the Apollo boots seems pretty much at right angles to me, i.e. the tread pattern is straight across the boot.

Jack, you stand by your studies, and I stand by mine, so if you still think this can't be a bootprint, we'll have to agree to disagree. Personally, I think the issue is a no-brainer: it looks like a partial bootprint; we have a photo showing the feature isn't there before Schmitt stands there; we have a photo of Schmitt's toe end exactly where the feature is; once he's moved away, we can now see the feature.

Any chance of defending your photographic claims on the other thread? :)

I will give Mr. Greer the benefit of the doubt and not accuse him of purposely

trying to mislead the reader...but:

1. There are three consecutive poses of the astronaut standing in the same position. In

two of the poses he is standing FLAT FOOTED, but Greer chose the third pose, in which

the astronaut has his left foot raised, to fit his theory of TOE-PRINT. Since he was

standing FLAT FOOTED, there should be a full boot print, not just a toe print.

2. In the other two poses, the right foot is BESIDE THE LEFT FOOT, yet in the photo

with the mystery artifact, there is NO OTHER BOOTPRINT THERE for the right foot.

3. In Greer's photo, the astronaut is facing the camera, yet THERE ARE NO BOOTPRINTS

BEHIND HIM, nor are there any BOOTPRINTS IN THE FOREGROUND leading to where

he is standing...not even if he WALKED BACKWARD TO THAT POSITION. So how

did he manage to get to that location WITHOUT LEAVING A TRAIL OF PRINTS?

4. As an avid Apollogist, Greer certainly must know that the boots have a ROUNDED

TOE, and all TOEPRINTS ARE ROUNDED...so the mystery artifact CANNOT BE A

TOEPRINT.

Therefore it is NOT QED (not demonstrated) that Mr. Greer is correct. In fact the above

demonstrates (QED) THAT MR. GREER IS INCORRECT in his toeprint theory.

Jack

Edited by Jack White
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