Kevin M. West Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I don't give a hoot what kind of explaination you or Lamson or West or any of the other defenders of Apollo comes up with to try to explain away why you stretched and skewed that photo to have the shadow match the astronot ... because in doing so , you not only made it more obvious that the shadow was placed in that photograph backwards and in the wrong upright position , but also became a joke among the conspiracy researchers on YouTube ... Duane, You make yourself look like the bad guy when you continue to lie about the photo being skewed. Again, this is an open invitation to any of the lurkers in this thread to do what Duane refuses to do and test it yourself. Simply scale the image vertically, no skew, and you can recreate what Dave did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin M. West Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 By the way , your photograph is a phony looking as the Apollo one ... Did you really fool him with this photoshopped shadow photo of yours ? ... Or is this just part of your game ? "I was able to recreate a similar photo which I showed to him." ... I just bet you "recreated" it . Do you have ANY idea how perspective applies to photography and why it would make the shadows converge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I don't give a hoot what kind of explaination you or Lamson or West or any of the other defenders of Apollo comes up with to try to explain away why you stretched and skewed that photo to have the shadow match the astronot ... because in doing so , you not only made it more obvious that the shadow was placed in that photograph backwards and in the wrong upright position , but also became a joke among the conspiracy researchers on YouTube ... Duane, You make yourself look like the bad guy when you continue to lie about the photo being skewed. Again, this is an open invitation to any of the lurkers in this thread to do what Duane refuses to do and test it yourself. Simply scale the image vertically, no skew, and you can recreate what Dave did. I'm not lying about anything ... Greer admitted to "stretching and skewing " the image in his first post about this ... He is the one being deceptive , not me ... Read what he posted , unless he has edited it , which wouldn't surprise me in the least .. But we will let the evidence speak for itself ... The original photo , before Greer "stretched and skewed " it , clearly shows an upright , backwards shadow ... It in no way matches the forward , leaning over position of the astronot ... It is a prime example of whistleblowing and one of the most obvious of faked Apollo photos for several reasons .. The impossible tire tracks going thorugh the middle of the crater , being another . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Greer Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 You are unbelievable ... On every forum you have followed me to , you always try to make me look like the bad guy .You made claims on the YouTube comment boards that you had contacted Jarrah's source and she refutted her own claim , which was only agreeing with him in his MoonFaker video that the 90 degree shadow angle on one Apollo 11 photo was anomalous ... Then you proceeded to make the claim that she was not qualified to do any photo analysis and that she admitted as much to you ... Of course your entire sole reason for allegedly contacting her and making these statements on YouTube was to attempt to discredit Jarrah's work ... All I asked was that instead of forwarding this alleged e-mail to another pro Apollo video maker on that site to gloat over getting one up on Jarrah , that you forward these alleged e-mails to him and me , so we could see for ourselves if Jenny had refuted her original claim without any pressure from you ... Now you are still refusing to send these alleged e-mails to Jarrrah and me , but would like me to assign a moderator here to accept them ?!?! ... You have got to be joking !! ... There isn't a moderator on this forum who would take my side in this because there isn't one moderator here who is even open to the possibility that the official Apollo record is fraudulent ... So no , I don't accept your offer for the simple reason that I don't trust you or your motives . I never asked you to post these alleged e-mails publically ... I asked you to send them to Jarrah's and my PM inbox , for the sole purpose to see if your claims about her refuting her own analysis was true , and to make sure that it wasn't done out of fear of who you might be contacting her . There was no reason for you to bring any of this here, via a PM to me or posts on this forum , about what takes place on YouTube ... This is a game you have played before with me ... and the last two times you played it, the WOS was hacked and permanately crashed and I was banned from the Unexplained Mysteries forum . I am tired of your games ... I am tired of your dishonest tactics ... and I am tired of you trying to make me the bad guy , when it's you who fits that role ... If your friends are too blind to see what you are all about, then fine ... but you have fooled no one on YouTube with your game playing nonsense and the altering of the A15 Dave Scott shadow ... I don't give a hoot what kind of explaination you or Lamson or West or any of the other defenders of Apollo comes up with to try to explain away why you stretched and skewed that photo to have the shadow match the astronot ... because in doing so , you not only made it more obvious that the shadow was placed in that photograph backwards and in the wrong upright position , but also became a joke among the conspiracy researchers on YouTube ... So no , I don't want you to send those alleged e-mails to a nasa defending moderator on this forum , I want you to send them to Jarrah and me ... and the only reason at this point that you still refuse to send them to us , only proves one thing ... Either there are no e-mails or they don't make the claims you say they do . If you forward the e-mails to Jarrah and me and they are everything you claim they are , then I will make a public apology to you on YouTube .. Balls in your court Dave . Duane Who's trying to make you look the bad guy? You're the one who falsely accused my of lying about emailing someone, and even stated I may have threatened her. You're the one insinuating yet again that I hacked the World of the Strange site (despite you already offering a public apology for that indiscretion on this very forum some months ago). Now you're insinuating that I had you banned from Unexplained Mysteries, yet ANOTHER false accusation. Why do you think I'm trying to make you look bad? For trying to rise above the insults, innuendo and false accusations? You're doing a darned fine job iof making yourself look bad. I tell you what Duane, since you accuse the moderators of this forum of being incapable of mediating the authenticity of a simple email, how about this. I'll forward the email onto Jack White so he can verify I'm not lying (providing he agrees not to forward it to yourself, Jarrah, or any other third party, nor to post it on any public forum.) I may not agree with Jack's opinion on Apollo, but since I know I'm right, I'm willing for him to vouch for the content of this email. If Jack agrees to this, and is willing to confirm or deny each of the following (a) it is from Jenny Heller ( there is no threatening language from myself, either direct or implied © she states that she is NOT a photography expert, but a fine arts teacher (d) she states that she is sure the beach photo I forwarded to her disproves Jarrah's theory (e) there is nothing else in the email that contradicts anything I've said will you then be willing to offer a public apology on both this forum (since you brought it here) and on Youtube, both for the accusation of lying about the email, and for implying that I threatened her into changing her mind? (Note, I am not expecting Jack to comment on the photo itself, I know he disagrees with my analysis of it. I just want him to confirm I'm not lying about the email itself). Back to you Duane. Do you trust Jack White to be as honest about this email as I do? I'm really sorry things have come to this but I'm fed up of you going around the internet spouting false accusations about me with impunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 By the way , your photograph is a phony looking as the Apollo one ... Did you really fool him with this photoshopped shadow photo of yours ? ... Or is this just part of your game ? "I was able to recreate a similar photo which I showed to him." ... I just bet you "recreated" it . Do you have ANY idea how perspective applies to photography and why it would make the shadows converge? I know how it applies now .. and I know how easy it is to photoshop faked images , including shadows ... I also know when a photo shadow has to be "stretched and skewed" to match the object in that photo , that someting is very wrong with the picture . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Greer Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I'm not lying about anything ... Greer admitted to "stretching and skewing " the image in his first post about this ... He is the one being deceptive , not me ... Read what he posted , unless he has edited it , which wouldn't surprise me in the least .. Indeed, please read what I posted on 31 Jan 2007, which you can see I havent edited at all (the forum software records the last edit made). http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...ost&p=91902 I clearly stated I had vertically stretched the shadow. I never mentioned "skewing" the photo: why would I since I didn't do it? Yet another example of you trying to make me out to be a xxxx when the facts are there for everyone to check for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 You are unbelievable ... On every forum you have followed me to , you always try to make me look like the bad guy .You made claims on the YouTube comment boards that you had contacted Jarrah's source and she refutted her own claim , which was only agreeing with him in his MoonFaker video that the 90 degree shadow angle on one Apollo 11 photo was anomalous ... Then you proceeded to make the claim that she was not qualified to do any photo analysis and that she admitted as much to you ... Of course your entire sole reason for allegedly contacting her and making these statements on YouTube was to attempt to discredit Jarrah's work ... All I asked was that instead of forwarding this alleged e-mail to another pro Apollo video maker on that site to gloat over getting one up on Jarrah , that you forward these alleged e-mails to him and me , so we could see for ourselves if Jenny had refuted her original claim without any pressure from you ... Now you are still refusing to send these alleged e-mails to Jarrrah and me , but would like me to assign a moderator here to accept them ?!?! ... You have got to be joking !! ... There isn't a moderator on this forum who would take my side in this because there isn't one moderator here who is even open to the possibility that the official Apollo record is fraudulent ... So no , I don't accept your offer for the simple reason that I don't trust you or your motives . I never asked you to post these alleged e-mails publically ... I asked you to send them to Jarrah's and my PM inbox , for the sole purpose to see if your claims about her refuting her own analysis was true , and to make sure that it wasn't done out of fear of who you might be contacting her . There was no reason for you to bring any of this here, via a PM to me or posts on this forum , about what takes place on YouTube ... This is a game you have played before with me ... and the last two times you played it, the WOS was hacked and permanately crashed and I was banned from the Unexplained Mysteries forum . I am tired of your games ... I am tired of your dishonest tactics ... and I am tired of you trying to make me the bad guy , when it's you who fits that role ... If your friends are too blind to see what you are all about, then fine ... but you have fooled no one on YouTube with your game playing nonsense and the altering of the A15 Dave Scott shadow ... I don't give a hoot what kind of explaination you or Lamson or West or any of the other defenders of Apollo comes up with to try to explain away why you stretched and skewed that photo to have the shadow match the astronot ... because in doing so , you not only made it more obvious that the shadow was placed in that photograph backwards and in the wrong upright position , but also became a joke among the conspiracy researchers on YouTube ... So no , I don't want you to send those alleged e-mails to a nasa defending moderator on this forum , I want you to send them to Jarrah and me ... and the only reason at this point that you still refuse to send them to us , only proves one thing ... Either there are no e-mails or they don't make the claims you say they do . If you forward the e-mails to Jarrah and me and they are everything you claim they are , then I will make a public apology to you on YouTube .. Balls in your court Dave . Duane Who's trying to make you look the bad guy? You're the one who falsely accused my of lying about emailing someone, and even stated I may have threatened her. You're the one insinuating yet again that I hacked the World of the Strange site (despite you already offering a public apology for that indiscretion on this very forum some months ago). Now you're insinuating that I had you banned from Unexplained Mysteries, yet ANOTHER false accusation. Why do you think I'm trying to make you look bad? For trying to rise above the insults, innuendo and false accusations? You're doing a darned fine job iof making yourself look bad. I tell you what Duane, since you accuse the moderators of this forum of being incapable of mediating the authenticity of a simple email, how about this. I'll forward the email onto Jack White so he can verify I'm not lying (providing he agrees not to forward it to yourself, Jarrah, or any other third party, nor to post it on any public forum.) I may not agree with Jack's opinion on Apollo, but since I know I'm right, I'm willing for him to vouch for the content of this email. If Jack agrees to this, and is willing to confirm or deny each of the following (a) it is from Jenny Heller ( there is no threatening language from myself, either direct or implied © she states that she is NOT a photography expert, but a fine arts teacher (d) she states that she is sure the beach photo I forwarded to her disproves Jarrah's theory (e) there is nothing else in the email that contradicts anything I've said will you then be willing to offer a public apology on both this forum (since you brought it here) and on Youtube, both for the accusation of lying about the email, and for implying that I threatened her into changing her mind? (Note, I am not expecting Jack to comment on the photo itself, I know he disagrees with my analysis of it. I just want him to confirm I'm not lying about the email itself). Back to you Duane. Do you trust Jack White to be as honest about this email as I do? I'm really sorry things have come to this but I'm fed up of you going around the internet spouting false accusations about me with impunity. Why do you now want to drag Jack into this ? ... He is a busy man with more important things to do than to play games with the likes of you and your kind . Yes, I trust Jack , but that is hardly the point ... Maybe you should explain why you are willing to forward these alleged e-mails onto a third party , but not to Jarrah ( the one you are accusing of wrong doing ) or to me , the one who would like to see with my own eyes that what you claim is true . Isn't it enough that I am willing to apologize to you on YouTube if you are telling the truth about this ? ... It makes no sense at all that you won't at least forward the e-mails to Jarrah , unless you have something to hide . As for the WOS , it didn't get hacked until I posted some very damaging Apollo hoax evidence ... Coincidence ? Maybe , but I highly doubt it .... And the reason I was banned from the UM ( not that it matters , as they did me a favor ) was because you alerted one of the moderators there as to what I had posted here, about the possibility of that site having the capability to read members posts as they were typing them ...You and West are members of both forums ... and the day after I posted this information here , I was banned from there .. Coincidence ? ... Maybe , but I highy doubt it . It is obvious to me now that you will stop at nothing to get me and others like me , such as Jarrah , to stop posting about and exposing the Apollo hoax ... and I have only one thing left to say about that sad fact ... "Me thinks thou dost protest too much ." ... and with good reason ... Apollo was a hoax . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Cut the crap Dave ...The bottom line is YOU ALTERED THE SHADOW TO MATCH THE ASTRONOT ... It's a faked, whistleblower photo , and if you can't or won't admit to at least that , then you can not be trusted to be truthful about anything . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin M. West Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Coincidence ? Maybe , but I highly doubt it .... And the reason I was banned from the UM ( not that it matters , as they did me a favor ) was because you alerted one of the moderators there as to what I had posted here, about the possibility of that site having the capability to read members posts as they were typing them ... And as I said last time, add the internet to the list of things that you don't understand. Your web browser doesn't send anything to the forum as you're typing, nothing is sent until you hit submit. No one other than you can see your post while you're typing it. So whatever the reason was for you getting banned, it certainly wasn't because you were getting too close to some truth about forum moderators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin M. West Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Cut the crap Dave ...The bottom line is YOU ALTERED THE SHADOW TO MATCH THE ASTRONOT ... It's a faked, whistleblower photo , and if you can't or won't admit to at least that , then you can not be trusted to be truthful about anything . Is there a moderator here with photoshop or ms paint or anything who can test this and tell Duane since he's incapable or unwilling to do it himself? I'm really getting sick of him repeating the same lies over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Greer Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Why do you now want to drag Jack into this ? ... He is a busy man with more important things to do than to play games with the likes of you and your kind . Because you admitted you didn't trust the moderators to be impartial. I guessed you would trust Jack above all else. Yes, I trust Jack , but that is hardly the point ... Maybe you should explain why you are willing to forward these alleged e-mails onto a third party , but not to Jarrah ( the one you are accusing of wrong doing ) or to me , the one who would like to see with my own eyes that what you claim is true .The email is a private correspondence between myself and Jenny. You have no right demanding that it be forwarded on to you to decide if it's real or not (heck, you'd probably say I faked it - like you just accused me of faking shadows in my own photo). I've emailed Jenny asking for her permission to make the email public.Isn't it enough that I am willing to apologize to you on YouTube if you are telling the truth about this ? ... It makes no sense at all that you won't at least forward the e-mails to Jarrah , unless you have something to hide . Duane, can't you think outside the box for a moment? There IS information in the email (that doesn't directly relate to Apollo or the photograph being discussed) that I don't want to post because it could be conceived as breaching a confidentiality. I'm trying to protect two people here, Jenny and Jarrah. And since you brought the discussion of the email over here, I think an apology on both forums is in order. As for the WOS , it didn't get hacked until I posted some very damaging Apollo hoax evidence ... Coincidence ? Maybe , but I highly doubt it .... And the reason I was banned from the UM ( not that it matters , as they did me a favor ) was because you alerted one of the moderators there as to what I had posted here, about the possibility of that site having the capability to read members posts as they were typing them ...You and West are members of both forums ... and the day after I posted this information here , I was banned from there .. Coincidence ? ... Maybe , but I highy doubt it .Is it Groundhog Day? I've NEVER hacked any site, and I've NEVER alerted ANY moderator on any forum (let alone UM) about anything you've posted with a view to getting you banned. A few months ago I was advised to PM the owner of THIS site after you falsely accused me of illegal behaviour (hacking another forum), something I declined to do. So, I'll ask AGAIN - withdraw the inferred accusations and offer yet ANOTHER apology for the SAME misdemeanour you were guilty of a few months ago. (Repeating an accusation after offering an apology effectively renders the initial apology as worthless, IMO).It is obvious to me now that you will stop at nothing to get me and others like me , such as Jarrah , to stop posting about and exposing the Apollo hoax ... and I have only one thing left to say about that sad fact ... "Me thinks thou dost protest too much ." ... and with good reason ... Apollo was a hoax . Duane, you can post all you like on Apollo on any forum you choose. Same for Jarrah, and anyone else. What I refuse to stand for any more is being falsely accused of lying, hacking sites, and getting you banned. Shame you can't see the difference between debating an issue, and calling someone a xxxx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Dave ... I have finished arguing with you about this and everything else .. If you are really so worried about " breaching a confidentiality " then why would you even consider making her e-mail public ? ... You are not even making any sense at this point . I am not going to rehash what happened to the WOS or on the WOS ... Neither do I give a rip that I was banned from the UM ... As I stated before , you did me a favor ... but attacking Jarrah and then making accusations you are not willing to allow him privy to , is completely dishonorable . I don't want to make these e-mals public and neither does he ... But if you are not willing for either one of us to see them , then I will have to assume that you are not being truthful and hiding something ... Send him the alleged e-mails if you don't trust me to be discreet with them .. He would be in a better position than I anyway, to determine if they are valid or not ... After all , he knows this person personally ... So if you have pulled any fast ones , he should be able to determine that . Oh , and here's a little gift from greenmagoos and me ... I hope you enjoy it ... It's his new one and it's a beaut ! And once again , thanks for the laughs ! NASASCAM ( featuring Dave Greer's "stretched" A15 whistleblowing shadow ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0BbeNc_b0I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Greer Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Dave ... I have finished arguing with you about this and everything else .. If you are really so worried about " breaching a confidentiality " then why would you even consider making her e-mail public ? ... You are not even making any sense at this point . Why do you think I emailed her for permissions? I am not going to rehash what happened to the WOS or on the WOS ...You just did. See your earlier mail.Neither do I give a rip that I was banned from the UM ... As I stated before , you did me a favor ... As stated, I had nothing to do with you being banned. but attacking Jarrah and then making accusations you are not willing to allow him privy to , is completely dishonorable .I didn't attack Jarrah. I simply opinted out that the "expert" in his video was by her own admission NOT a photography expert, and that she believed the photo I showed her proved Jarrah wrong. You cannot differentiate between attacking a person's argument, and attacking a person.I don't want to make these e-mals public and neither does he ... But if you are not willing for either one of us to see them , then I will have to assume that you are not being truthful and hiding something ... The why would I offer to let a mediator establish the veracity of what I've said? I'm only trying to clear myself of your lying accusations. Send him the alleged e-mails if you don't trust me to be discreet with them ..Of course I don't trust you! After what you said you would email Jenny about me!He would be in a better position than I anyway, to determine if they are valid or not ... After all , he knows this person personally ... So if you have pulled any fast ones , he should be able to determine that . You can't have read my previous email properly, re confidentiality. I'm not prepared to tell you any more than that. Oh , and here's a little gift from greenmagoos and me ... I hope you enjoy it ... It's his new one and it's a beaut ! And once again , thanks for the laughs ! NASASCAM ( featuring Dave Greer's "stretched" A15 whistleblowing shadow ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0BbeNc_b0I Did I really just waste 2 minutes 52 seconds of my life on that? Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stephen Turner Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Cut the crap Dave ...The bottom line is YOU ALTERED THE SHADOW TO MATCH THE ASTRONOT ... It's a faked, whistleblower photo , and if you can't or won't admit to at least that , then you can not be trusted to be truthful about anything . Is there a moderator here with photoshop or ms paint or anything who can test this and tell Duane since he's incapable or unwilling to do it himself? I'm really getting sick of him repeating the same lies over and over. Yes, but as Duane has already accused me, and the five other Mods of being "NASA defenders" what would be the point, he will no more accept my word in this matter than he will yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 By the way , your photograph is a phony looking as the Apollo one ... Did you really fool him with this photoshopped shadow photo of yours ? ... Or is this just part of your game ? "I was able to recreate a similar photo which I showed to him." ... I just bet you "recreated" it . Do you have ANY idea how perspective applies to photography and why it would make the shadows converge? I know how it applies now .. and I know how easy it is to photoshop faked images , including shadows ... I also know when a photo shadow has to be "stretched and skewed" to match the object in that photo , that someting is very wrong with the picture . Well you just showed how little you actually know about retouching in photoshop. There is NOTHING harder than creating a shadow in photoshop that looks real...I repete NOTHING! Since you claim it is soo easy than please take HIGH RES image, say of a car drop out the background and then add in a real looking shadow. Lets see ho easy this REALLY is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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