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The Three Tramps


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In light of Charles Harrelson's passing, I thought it might be worth looking at the Three Tramps issue again even though it has been hashed to death in the past.

Were these guys really Doyle, Gedney and Abrams or were they sinister types involved in the assassination? I believe this image below speaks volumes in either case.

Fletcher Prouty and Victor Krulak (men who would know) have stated that the man passing in the opposite direction is Ed Lansdale. If it is Lansdale then that has some serious implications. If it is not Lansdale, then why was a man allowed to pass this close to men under arrest, especially when the atmosphere at the time was volitile given the death of the President.

Also, why would anyone want to pass this close to men under arrest?

This one issue has always been a sticking point for me. Without this photograph, selling Doyle, Gedney and Abrams would have been relatively easy.

The cynic in me says that something was going on here, and given that Harrelson was such a close physical match for the Tall Tramp, the old Spidey senses are tingling.

FWIW.

James

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James,

I agree that this point is quite important. The passer by also takes the inside line and does not attempt to give them a wide birth. One can not dismiss Lois Gibson's identification of Harrelson as one of the tramps. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=56...p;q=lois+gibson

I would dearly like to see some facial reconition software to put this matter to rest one way or another.

John

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Guest Mark Valenti

James,

There's no doubt that the photo represents an odd event. It's not the casual kind of behavior you'd expect on such a momentous day.

It's possible that the man passing so near was known to the first cop - maybe he was a police employee, or someone who worked in the area and was familiar.

By the time this photo was taken, it's possible that the man and the first cop had already acknowledged each other. We don't see what transpired prior to the shutter snap.

Another factor - if this was truly Lansdale, is it even remotely believable that he would allow himself to be photographed? True, he's facing away from the camera but a long-time spook walking right into the path of a photographer? Hmm...

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Gentlemen,

Thank you for your responses.

Bottom line here, something is amiss. I think there is some background on Harrelson which if confirmed might go some way to putting things into perspective. Like rumors of Harrelson and some mysterious Cuban exiles dealing illegal weapons and gun running from within Texas through to Miami.

I was wondering if John Geraghty in his communications with Harrelson was able to get any information that may lend credence to this second hand information?

One more thing which I have raised before, and that is the stain on the front of the Tall Tramp's trousers. It has been suggested it might be a shadow but I am just not convinced. Could it be blood?

James

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James,

I agree that this point is quite important. The passer by also takes the inside line and does not attempt to give them a wide birth. One can not dismiss Lois Gibson's identification of Harrelson as one of the tramps. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=56...p;q=lois+gibson

I would dearly like to see some facial reconition software to put this matter to rest one way or another.

John

I found Gibson's presentation quite convincing, though I could still waffle on two out of the three tramps.

The exception is Harrelson. It's him in Dealey Plaza. I base my conclusion not only on the fact that it looks exactly like Harrelson, but on the fact that Harrelson (as Gibson pointed out) is almost always smirking. That makes him stand out in most photos of him, esp given the fact that in photos he's usually in a setting where smiling is inappropriate, e.g., Dealey Plaza after a president is murdered, in court, under arrest...

It's Harrelson. Thus my lack of mourning over his death.

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Gentlemen,

Thank you for your responses.

Bottom line here, something is amiss. I think there is some background on Harrelson which if confirmed might go some way to putting things into perspective. Like rumors of Harrelson and some mysterious Cuban exiles dealing illegal weapons and gun running from within Texas through to Miami.

I was wondering if John Geraghty in his communications with Harrelson was able to get any information that may lend credence to this second hand information?

One more thing which I have raised before, and that is the stain on the front of the Tall Tramp's trousers. It has been suggested it might be a shadow but I am just not convinced. Could it be blood?

James

James,

He said nothing in his letters about gun running, but I'm close to finding a concrete link. I can definitely link him with several of the main players in those operations. I'm trying to secure arrest records for him in Florida, which should prove interesting. I firmly believe that he was involved in the gun running. Given the close circle that he ran in it is very unlikely that he was not involved.

In two one weeks free time from college work I was able to find a mountain of material on Harrelson that has not yet been written about in any coherrent form. All I need now is to get funding to do this stuff. I wouldn't know if publishers would have an interest in this sort of stuff.

John

Edited by John Geraghty
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Gentlemen,

Thank you for your responses.

Bottom line here, something is amiss. I think there is some background on Harrelson which if confirmed might go some way to putting things into perspective. Like rumors of Harrelson and some mysterious Cuban exiles dealing illegal weapons and gun running from within Texas through to Miami.

I was wondering if John Geraghty in his communications with Harrelson was able to get any information that may lend credence to this second hand information?

One more thing which I have raised before, and that is the stain on the front of the Tall Tramp's trousers. It has been suggested it might be a shadow but I am just not convinced. Could it be blood?

James

James,

He said nothing in his letters about gun running, but I'm close to finding a concrete link. I can definitely link him with several of the main players in those operations. I'm trying to secure arrest records for him in Florida, which should prove interesting. I firmly believe that he was involved in the gun running. Given the close circle that he ran in it is very unlikely that he was not involved.

In two one weeks free time from college work I was able to find a mountain of material on Harrelson that has not yet been written about in any coherrent form. All I need now is to get funding to do this stuff. I wouldn't know if publishers would have an interest in this sort of stuff.

John

Thanks to all who posted. There had to be a post concerning Harrelson today, and Im glad I wasnt let down. Only through his kindness, and dedication to JFK research, have I been able to trade some books with one of the most respected, long time members here. I was able to fortunately recieve "The Man on the Grassy Knoll". I suggest it, as it is a very good read, even if it all may not be true. For those not familiar, it is about the theory of Charles Rogers, as the hitman, along with Harrelson, and Holt. If only half is true, it is still a very interesting book. Something on every turn of the page. Alot of speculation on the authors part, but it gets to the core of the relationship of the men, and their early life. Im not sold on the theory, but very good, none the less. Just my opinion FWIW.

thanks-smitty

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One more thing which I have raised before, and that is the stain on the front of the Tall Tramp's trousers. It has been suggested it might be a shadow but I am just not convinced. Could it be blood?

___________________________________________

James,

I, too, think something is rotten in the state of Denmark about this photo and that the tall tramp is Harrelson (rather than Sturgis or some honest-to-god tramp the arrest records of whom were rather convenient misplaced for about a generation by the DPD). All of the "usual suspects" are all bunched up in a frickin' formation (something I can't figure out: why right in front of the chain link fence area? Hmm...). Regarding the stain on "Harrelson's" trousers, I don't think it's blood (not dark enough, imo), but probably the result of his intentionally "peeing his pants" in order to fill out/complement his (rather unconvincing) tramp disguise and, come to think of it, maybe even discourage "normal" people from getting too close to him and his asshole buddies.

In the big photo [showing the the so-called tramps, the purported cops, and the Lansdale/Maxwell Turner (thank you R.Ecker)] figure, it looks like L/M.T. and the almost completely-obscured, bringing-up-the-rear "old tramp" (E H Hunt?, Chauncy Holt?) are approaching each other in such a way as to perform some sort of covert hand off... Check out the outward-pointing angle of the "old tramp's" left shoe and the fact that he's already walking so far to the left compared to the other two "tramps." Another thought: it looks as if the other two "tramps" are running interference for him and providing a visual shield to the witnessing of such "hand off."

fwiw,

--Thomas

P.S. What the hell's wrong with the left side of "Harrelson's" sweater/shirt? Looks like he's wearing it with the left sleeve just dangling there next to his left arm under his rather nice looking jacket. Now why in the world would he do that I wonder. To conceal something and/or to make himself look more like a "bum?' Nah.......

_______________________________________________

____________________________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves
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He said nothing in his letters about gun running, but I'm close to finding a concrete link. I can definitely link him with several of the main players in those operations. I'm trying to secure arrest records for him in Florida, which should prove interesting. I firmly believe that he was involved in the gun running. Given the close circle that he ran in it is very unlikely that he was not involved.

In two one weeks free time from college work I was able to find a mountain of material on Harrelson that has not yet been written about in any coherrent form. All I need now is to get funding to do this stuff. I wouldn't know if publishers would have an interest in this sort of stuff.

John

Thanks, John.

There is the possibility that Harrelson may have been associated with Thomas Davis, who was of course the guy Tom Howard was worried about being connected to Jack Ruby in various gun running ventures.

There is also a Cuban involved here who would be familiar to certain researchers. I am trying to get information that might indeed introduce a very interesting circle of associates.

Onward!

James

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Gentlemen,

Thank you for your responses.

Bottom line here, something is amiss. I think there is some background on Harrelson which if confirmed might go some way to putting things into perspective. Like rumors of Harrelson and some mysterious Cuban exiles dealing illegal weapons and gun running from within Texas through to Miami.

I was wondering if John Geraghty in his communications with Harrelson was able to get any information that may lend credence to this second hand information?

One more thing which I have raised before, and that is the stain on the front of the Tall Tramp's trousers. It has been suggested it might be a shadow but I am just not convinced. Could it be blood?

James

It's been several years now since I read Prouty's reasoning on why he thought this guy was Lansdale, but I remember being pretty convinced at the time. Guess I will try googling it.

Even tho it's a from behind shot someone who knew him well should be able to tell who it is, imho.

Dawn

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It is all but unthinkable that a main facilitator of the murder of a president would allow him/herself to be within a thousand miles of the operation as it goes down.

To argue that Edward Lansdale played such a role in the assassination yet would be in Dallas on November 22, 1963 is to ascribe to this consummate professional the weaknesses and errors in judgment common to the rankest of amateurs.

As a writer of fiction I am quite capable of creating a Lansdale-esque character whose personal hubris and hatred for his target are sufficiently massive to outweigh professional and operational sensibilities and compel him to bear witness to his vile work. But viewing the hit from a so-called God spot is one thing, and going into the camera-infested weeds to take a hand-off from EHH is quite another matter.

Has anyone evere examined the available archives with the intent of finding posterior views of Lansdale? Have measurements of the height of the figure in question been undertaken and compared to the suspect's vertical dimensions?

As for Lois Gibson and all the other so-called experts in facial recognition and skull reconstructions are concerned: Where are the blind studies that substantiate their professional claims?

If Lansdale and Hunt were in Dealey Plaza that day, it was for the purpose of patsying.

And neither of the above qualifies as a patsy in this case.

Charles

Edited by Charles Drago
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Gentlemen,

Thank you for your responses.

Bottom line here, something is amiss. I think there is some background on Harrelson which if confirmed might go some way to putting things into perspective. Like rumors of Harrelson and some mysterious Cuban exiles dealing illegal weapons and gun running from within Texas through to Miami.

I was wondering if John Geraghty in his communications with Harrelson was able to get any information that may lend credence to this second hand information?

One more thing which I have raised before, and that is the stain on the front of the Tall Tramp's trousers. It has been suggested it might be a shadow but I am just not convinced. Could it be blood?

James

It's been several years now since I read Prouty's reasoning on why he thought this guy was Lansdale, but I remember being pretty convinced at the time. Guess I will try googling it.

Even tho it's a from behind shot someone who knew him well should be able to tell who it is, imho.

Dawn

Dawn...it was not a matter of "reasoning". Fletch told me several times that he SHARED

AN OFFICE at the Pentagon with Lansdale for several years. When you are around someone

that much, you know what they look like from any angle. When he first got a copy of the

photo, he mailed it to another acquaintance without comment, and got the reply "WHAT IS

LANSDALE DOING IN THAT PHOTO?"

Jack

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Guest Mark Valenti
Dawn...it was not a matter of "reasoning". Fletch told me several times that he SHARED

AN OFFICE at the Pentagon with Lansdale for several years. When you are around someone

that much, you know what they look like from any angle. When he first got a copy of the

photo, he mailed it to another acquaintance without comment, and got the reply "WHAT IS

LANSDALE DOING IN THAT PHOTO?"

Jack

It's hard to dismiss such personal identification but why would Lansdale walk right into a photo? That makes no sense.

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It is all but unthinkable that a main facilitator of the murder of a president would allow him/herself to be within a thousand miles of the operation as it goes down.

To argue that Edward Landsdale played such a role in the assassination yet would be in Dallas on November 22, 1963 is to ascribe to this consummate professional the weaknesses and errors in judgment common to the rankest of amateurs.

As a writer of fiction I am quite capable of creating a Landsdale-esque character whose personal hubris and hatred for his target are sufficiently massive to outweigh professional and operational sensibilities and compel him to bear witness to his vile work. But viewing the hit from a so-called God spot is one thing, and going into the camera-infested weeds to take a hand-off from EHH is quite another matter.

Has anyone evere examined the available archives with the intent of finding posterior views of Landsdale? Have measurements of the height of the figure in question been undertaken and compared to the suspect's vertical dimensions?

As for Lois Gibson and all the other so-called experts in facial recognition and skull reconstructions are concerned: Where are the blind studies that substantiate their professional claims?

If Landsdale and Hunt were in Dealey Plaza that day, it was for the purpose of patsying.

And neither of the above qualifies as a patsy in this case.

Charles

Charles, as a newcomer to the forum, you are unaware of the numerous photo

studies of member James Richards showing that numerous high ranking CIA

operatives were present in the plaza to observe the assassination. I think his

studies are archived in the photo section. Or maybe James will give us a

quick summary of all the spooks who may have been there.

Jack

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