Does it hurt to get shot?

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Dumb question, I know. But there are numerous examples of people getting shot without even knowing they were hit. So I'm asking - at the moment a person is shot, is it more or less likely that they'll experience pain? Or does a rush of adrenaline delay the experience of pain until later?

[Jack White]

Dumb question, I know. But there are numerous examples of people getting shot without even knowing they were hit. So I'm asking - at the moment a person is shot, is it more or less likely that they'll experience pain? Or does a rush of adrenaline delay the experience of pain until later?

It is common that pain is relative to other simultaneous experiences.

Two years ago I experienced a massive heart attack. I felt no pain of any kind.

Only extreme nausea and sweating. Because of the lack of pain I did not

suspect heart attack; thought I had food poisoning. Fortunately the ER heart

specialist saved my life.

In 1991 I was stabbed in the chest about a dozen times with an icepick by

an intruder at night in my bed. I thought he was hitting me with his fist

and did not know I was being stabbed. I escaped and the ER doctors

quickly diagnosed my collapsed lung and saved my life. I never felt

any pain from the stabbing....but the worst pain I have ever experienced

was when the doctor plunged the tube into my chest to reinflate the lung

and drain the blood. I was unconscious, but I awakened from the pain of

the tube insertion.

On the other hand, I recently burned my finger slightly and felt extreme

pain for several days. Recently I was using a weedeater on some weeds.

A pebble flew up and hit my bare leg and I felt a momentary sting, and

thought no more about it, but when I went in my wife cried YOUR'RE

BLEEDING and my leg was covered in blood; no pain. I would say it is

relative to the situation and the nerve damage done. There are likely medical

articles on the psychology of pain. Try google.

Jack

Edited May 11, 2007 by Jack White

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Jack, thanks - firsthand info is always best. I did Google the question, there are a lot of silly web sites out there, that's one thing I learned.

I've been finding anecdotally that head shots always hurt like hell, but body shots are usually only painful after the victim realizes what happened - and even then not for some minutes after.

There's also something about reacting to a gunshot with pain if you know you're about to get shot. That's why I'm wondering about the horrible cry of pain that Oswald let out when Ruby shot him - actually I think he yelled once and then moaned once if I'm not mistaken.

I'm trying to determine - and it's difficult to see in the films - if Oswald saw it coming or not. He looked right at Ruby for a moment, then turned away. He yelled out almost simultaneously with being shot - and that struck me as odd. Was it pain or was it the idea of being shot that made him cry out? The look on his face certainly indicated pain.

Edited May 11, 2007 by Mark Valenti

[John Dolva]

Jack, thanks - firsthand info is always best. I did Google the question, there are a lot of silly web sites out there, that's one thing I learned.

I've been finding anecdotally that head shots always hurt like hell, but body shots are usually only painful after the victim realizes what happened - and even then not for some minutes after.

There's also something about reacting to a gunshot with pain if you know you're about to get shot. That's why I'm wondering about the horrible cry of pain that Oswald let out when Ruby shot him - actually I think he yelled once and then moaned once if I'm not mistaken.

I'm trying to determine - and it's difficult to see in the films - if Oswald saw it coming or not. He looked right at Ruby for a moment, then turned away. He yelled out almost simultaneously with being shot - and that struck me as odd. Was it pain or was it the idea of being shot that made him cry out? The look on his face certainly indicated pain.

Mark, perhaps some things to consider are the explosive cavitation which if occuring near lungs can cause a rapid expulsion of air and hence sound.

Other things are the body's natural defence systems which includes extremely potent endorphines/opiates that kick in quickly. Their infusion can't be mainatained and at some point the pain mainifests itself.

Pain's a funny thing. There are documented instances (Dr A. Janov, "Imprints") where heroin addicts may burn themselves at some point, and after kicking the habit, at some point the pain accompanied with a physical manifestation of the burn occurs, sometimes moths later. IE the endorphines or opiates suppress the pain while (Janov's and others theories) it remains stored as a cellular memory. Dr Arthur Janov (San Fransisco?) and allied scientist in Pain research, incl. Dr Farrant in melb oz. (RIP) are IMO authorities.

I don't know what drugs Kennendy was taking, probably pain killers, possibly his reactions were to some extent a sensing something had happened but not sure what it was.

Ruby was tanked on an ephedrine type drug. I don't know if it has ever been suggested that Oswald was taking any drugs.

Edited May 11, 2007 by John Dolva

[Guest Eugene B. Connolly]

I remember reading a book on JFK. There were a few lines

in it where JFK was talking to an adviser.

JFK asked his adviser if he thought Abraham Lincoln

was considered to have been a great president simply

because he'd been assassinated.

The conversation turned to assassination in general

and the adviser asked JFK what way he'd

like to go if assassination ever happened.

Jack said: "Oh, a gun.

You never know what's hit you. A gunshot is the perfect way."

EBC

Edited May 14, 2007 by Eugene B. Connolly

[Charles Black]

I fortunately have never been shot.

There seems to be a variety of reactions that I don't feel has anything to do with pain tolerance, bravery or the location of the wound. Some people describe it as feeling like a moderate strike by a fist and are not sure that it is a gunshot wound.

Others seem to scream in excruciating "real pain" which seems to persist until heavily medicated.

I did read an FBI study that stated that very often a victim falls "if they realize" that they have been shot because it is a programmed response. In many cases, victims fall as a result of this programming, even tho the wound is truly not physically debilitating, while in other cases, victims continue their actions, seemingly unhampered, until they drop from bleed out or until "very near death". It is a wierd phenomenon !

John Connolly described his torso wound as feeling like a blow by a fist.

I cannot help myself, so I must add that you will notice that JBC's body is not "propelled" by a military rifle hit.

I bring this up to again point out that JFK's violent head and body snap is highly "not" indicative of a bullet impact. (see Dr. David Mantik..."Assassination Science", "Murder in Draley Plaza", and "The Great Zapruder Film Hoax")

This unreal movement has been explained to be the result of "frame excision" and other film alteration. Regardless of what explanation you choose to believe, what you "seem to see", if true,

would be a highly unnatural phenomenon, that cannot be explained by "physics" or "wound ballistics".

I don't expect you to take "my word" for this if you are a doubter. This can be easily researched by everyone on this forum.( refer also to "Bullet Penetration" by Duncan McPherson and various studies available, of all places, thru the FBI )

But please...believe what you care to. I am not attempting to reopen another can of worms which wont be resolved on this or any forum !

My apologies if I have exceeded the orignal intent of this thread.

Charles Black

[Guest Mark Valenti]

For all of the environmental variation in their shootings, the reactions of Oswald and Connally to being shot look similar to my eye. Eyes squeezed shut, face contortion, mouths open. JFK on the other hand, has a very different reaction - no obvious pain, but more of an intense look.

[Evan Marshall]

I fortunately have never been shot.

There seems to be a variety of reactions that I don't feel has anything to do with pain tolerance, bravery or the location of the wound. Some people describe it as feeling like a moderate strike by a fist and are not sure that it is a gunshot wound.

Others seem to scream in excruciating "real pain" which seems to persist until heavily medicated.

I did read an FBI study that stated that very often a victim falls "if they realize" that they have been shot because it is a programmed response. In many cases, victims fall as a result of this programming, even tho the wound is truly not physically debilitating, while in other cases, victims continue their actions, seemingly unhampered, until they drop from bleed out or until "very near death". It is a wierd phenomenon !

John Connolly described his torso wound as feeling like a blow by a fist.

I cannot help myself, so I must add that you will notice that JBC's body is not "propelled" by a military rifle hit.

I bring this up to again point out that JFK's violent head and body snap is highly "not" indicative of a bullet impact. (see Dr. David Mantik..."Assassination Science", "Murder in Draley Plaza", and "The Great Zapruder Film Hoax")

This unreal movement has been explained to be the result of "frame excision" and other film alteration. Regardless of what explanation you choose to believe, what you "seem to see", if true,

would be a highly unnatural phenomenon, that cannot be explained by "physics" or "wound ballistics".

I don't expect you to take "my word" for this if you are a doubter. This can be easily researched by everyone on this forum.( refer also to "Bullet Penetration" by Duncan McPherson and various studies available, of all places, thru the FBI )

But please...believe what you care to. I am not attempting to reopen another can of worms which wont be resolved on this or any forum !

My apologies if I have exceeded the orignal intent of this thread.

Charles Black

Yes, but not immediately. Knew a shot had been fired, but I effected the arrest and was walking the perp out when my Sgt asked me if I was ok and I said yes. He then said what about all that blood-then it hurt-alot.

Like Jack I had a massive heart attack and drove myself across Albuquerque to the New Mexico Heart Hospital-no pain, just alot of pressure. Did not realize the enormity of it until just prior to my surgical procedure when the Cardologist said, "If there is anybody you'd like to talk to, you had better do it now".

[Ron Ecker]

Reagan felt no immediate pain when he got bushwhacked. But then there's the theory that he wasn't shot till he was inside the car, when he thought that a rib got broken (the SS agent jumped in on top of him) and it immediately hurt like hell.

[Mark Stapleton]

Shark attack victims sometimes claim to feel little pain. I once read an account of a victim who lost most of his leg describing the moment of the bite as like being hit with a pillow. It seems that in some circumstances the magnitude of the wound may be inversely related to the pain experienced.

Burns are very painful, as Jack alluded to. All the nerve endings are just below the skin.

As for being shot, I would imagine it hurts like hell. Old westerns make me chuckle when the hero laughs of his injury as a flesh would, then proceeds to act as if nothing happened.

As for JFK, I don't think he would have felt much after being immobilised. The pain from the the back shot was mercifully curtailed very quickly by the head shot.

[Pat Speer]

I've had guns waved in my face but have never been shot. I was, however, mugged in Oakland. A crack addict jumped from behind me and grabbed my wallet. When I wouldn't let him have it, he started hitting me in the side of the head. He hit me 5 or 6 times with all his might. I stood there talking to him the whole time, saying "I'll give you my cash but you can't have my wallet." With each blow a flashbulb went off in my head. I felt the impact but no pain. Eventually my girlfriend yelled at me to let him have it, I relaxed my grip on my wallet, and the punk was gone.

Soon afterwards, my head began throbbing. A chunk was cut from my head behind my ear where his ring had impacted repeatedly, and I was bleeding. For the next few days I had a monstrous headache.

From this experience I feel fairly certain that JFK never felt the head shot beyond a hard impact. Prior to this, of course, he does react to his back and throat wounds. It's reasonable to assume he was just beginning to feel the pain when the head shot knocked him out of his misery.

[Guest Eugene B. Connolly]

Reference my previous post.

Below is the complete extract from the book:

Did JFK know he was bound to die suddenly by assassination?

An extract from 'An American Drama by Peter Collier and David Horowitz'

He had been terribly affected by the death of his infant son Patrick

Bouvier in August,having been last to leave the funeral Mass

presided over by Cardinal Cushing, weeping and more stricken than anyone could

remember having seen him. He grabbed at the tiny casket in such a disorirented

manner that Cardinal Cushing had to restrain him. whispering: " Come on, Jack, let's go.God is good."

He still thought about and spoke of his own death, as on an occasion after Patrick's

burial when he was sailing with Bartlett and Billings one afternoon.

The wind vanished,leaving the boat drifting listlessly in the water, and after looking over the side

for a long time, he asked suddenly: "How do you think Lyndon would be if i got killed?"

He returned to the subject a few weeks later while swimming with Torby Macdonald

in the pool at Palm Beach. They were talking about how both their fathers had been

incapacitated by strokes and how neither of them wanted such a fate.

Torby asked Jack what way he'd choose to die.

After thinking for a moment, Jack said: "Oh, a gun.

You never know what's hit you. A gunshot is the perfect way."

Pp 391 - 392, An American Drama by Peter Collier and David Horowitz

ISBN 0-330-28821-0

[Tom Kutzer]

a friend of mine was shot in the chest with a .38 in an accident.

he says it hurt like hell.

but not as bad as having the drain tubes pulled.

after two NDE hospital stays, I can attest personally to how bad that hurts.

might have to do with foreknowledge.

[Guest John Gillespie]

ALERT - St. John Hunt is on RIGHT NOW with Alex Jones, talking about E. Howard's role in the JFK assassination.

http://www.infowars.com/listen.html

Edited May 14, 2007 by John Gillespie

[Pat Speer]

Excerpt from the diary of Ronald Reagan, 3-30-81 (written on 4-1-81) "Getting shot hurts."