Did Oswald Practice Tradecraft?

[John Dolva]

I think Craig is vastly underestimated. I condemn any tainting of support of part of one and part of another as being in any way contradictory.

____

ontopic It doesn't preclude a large scale low level op. Do you think a high level would be spilling the beans to a nobody? That said I thinik a synthesis lies somewhere between these two opposite perspectives. Even the FBI had its overt certified kid agents. Always prepared. Scouts honor.

[Terry Mauro]

What's your take on Herbert Marcuse?

If we accept Jim's "logic" we must assume he and Julia Child were still doing intel work tin the 60's

Marcuse is an interesting character.

[Greg Parker]

So my question to you is can you cite any confirmed cases of 15 – 16 year old boys being recruited in to intel work in the US even if they only formally started working for the intel agency when they were 17 or 18?

Ever hear of Sherlock Holmes and his Baker St Irregulars -- gangs of street kids he sometimes used in his cases?

Ever hear of life immitating art?

Treasury agent Mike Malone ran such kids in New Orleans just opposite where Oswald was living on Exchange Place according to Jim Olmstead.

I have found confirmation of his use of juvenile gangs, but cannot offer any proof at this stage for the New Orleans location.

mike malone - juv gangs.bmp

[Len Colby]

Was LHO drafted into the CIA when he was 15?

This is what you asked me. Why ask me that if you are not insinuating in a smartaleck way it happened? Since I never said it did.

That seemed to be what you were driving at. But your stated position is not that different. You believe that when he was 16 LHO was convinced by a CIA agent to go into intel work and the teen then assumed his cover, or legend if you prefer, as a communist sympathizer. Such a legend would have very limited uses either to 1) infiltrate CPUSA or other Marxist groups in the US or 2) become a false defector. Since you believe Ferrie was CIA and LHO went into the ONI it would makes sense to assume the latter was the original plan. So we have LHO, by all accounts an impulsive kid, diligently assuming a false persona and convincing those around him for 2 years before signing up. Do think it realistic he would do so with out any assurance that he would indeed get into the ONI, CIA or other such agency to carry out such a mission?

I was very clear on this since rerearchers like Bill Davy write that Oswald joined the CAP---THE CAP!!!!---at age 16. Maybe you are confused because the acronyms CIA and CAP begin with the same letters?

With much greater justification I could have used the same cheap sarcasm against you and asked if you confused Nags Head (which never had a Navy or ONI base) with Norfolk because they were not very far from each other and “begin with the same letters” (sic). Reread what I wrote with care (emphasis added):

Correct me if I’m wrong but your position is that - At 16 (though most sources say it was at 15) he joined the CAP and

was convinced by a [agent] CIA to become a military intelligence operative

. In furtherance of that aim he pretended to be interested in Marxism and until he joined the Marines at 18 (though most sources say it was at 17) and maintained this ruse for the rest of his life and a few years after entering the ONI he was transferred to the CIA.

So my question to you is can you cite any confirmed cases of

15 – 16 year old boys being recruited in to intel work in the US even if they

only formally started working

for the intel agency when they were 17 or 18?

As for the age he joined;

“In her testimony before the Warren Commission, Marguerite Oswald stated that her son Lee "joined the Civil Air Patrol" at "age 151/2 or so"” [pg 103]

“In an FBI interview on November 27, 1963, another CAP executive was able to supply partial information regarding Oswald's involvement. (260) Joseph Ehrlicker told FBI agents that while he was unable to find a CAP application by Oswald, he was able to locate a record indicating that "Oswald was enrolled as a CAP cadet on July 27, 1955,” [pg 110]

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol9/pdf/HSCA_Vol9_4_Oswald.pdf

Oswald then tried to join the Marines illegally underaged. At this time, according to authors like Armstrong and even Bugliosi, his split image began to appear. That is, he read both Marx and the Marine manual.

Are you saying that every (or just about every) bio of LHO is wrong and he did not join the Marines at 17? And correct me if I’m wrong but I believe that according to the Bug he started reading Marx before joining the CAP

Now again, this is not unusual in light of who Ferrie was. Especially if he controlled an earlier version of JROTC, namely the CAP. Have you done any research on Ferrie's activites with these youths in the CAP? Have you been to New Orleans and interviewed some of these CAP students of his, or talked to Bob Buras or L J Delsa? Do you even know who those two are? Have you read any of the recovered files of the late Jim Garrison about Ferrie's activities with the CAP?

Does it make any difference to you if I have done these things and you have not? I doubt it. Because as I said above, the information and evidence do not matter to you. Even if they are from primary sources with multiple points of corroboration. Let us use a couple of books you have not read and some people I have interviewed on the the subject.

From Bill Davy's fine book on Garrison:

From page 5: "Both Ted Abernathy and Robert E. Morrell recalled that Ferrie convinced at least four cadets to join the Marines.....He also led overnight encampments with his cadets at Keesler AFB in nearby Biloxi, Mississippi." Needless to say, these facts directly impact on the fate of LHO, since he later trained at Biloxi.

How much influence did Ferrie have in impacting his cadets lives and careers? He actually paid Bob Boylston's college tuition. (Mellen, p. 42) He also secured some of these boys for sexual favors for his pal Clay Shaw. (Mellen, p. 38; interview with Delsa in NO in 1995)

"In 1955, a 16 year old fatherless boy from New Orleans joined the local CAP squadron. Lee Harvey Oswald was remembered by several of his fellow cadets." Bill then names seven of them. (ibid)

"Thomas Clark was one of Ferrie's young acolytes. He revealed to Garrison's office that Ferrie had once confided to him that he had "taught Oswald". (Davy ,ibid)

Now Ferrie could not have taken his CAP students on these military grounds--and it was not just Biloxi-- unless he had connections with the military authorities there. And he did. Joan Mellen talks abut this in her book. (p. 38) L J Delsa once told me that Ferrie even had access to military transports for some of these weekend bivouacs. Further, in an interview with one of Ferrie's cadets, Van Burns, it was learned that Ferrie tried to interest his cadets in the learning of Russian. (Mellen, p. 42) Which makes perfect sense in light of the tensions of the Cold War and Ferrie's feeliings about communism. Further, two cadets revealed that Oswald also became very interested in surveilling places through photography while in Ferrie's CAP. (Ibid) And didn't Oswald end up with a miniature spy camera which the FBI tried to say was not his?

From all the above, Jim Garrison came to believe that Lee went to the Marine Corps because of the CIvil AIr Patrol. Further, that it was Ferrie who had interested Oswald in intelligence work. (Mellen, p. 43) Which is pretty undeniable in light of the testimony above and the course of Oswald's life right after the CAP.

Case closed.

How positively Posnerian of you! And your logical leaps are even bigger than his. Though Ferrie may have had a role given his family history it is likely LHO would have joined the military anyway. Only two of the bits you mentioned would indicate “it was Ferrie who had interested Oswald in intelligence work” 1) him supposedly trying “to interest his cadets in the learning of Russian” and 2) LHO’s supposedly becoming “very interested in surveilling places through photography while in Ferrie's CAP” but this far from conclusive. Can you name any other Ferrie CAP protégées who went into intel. Who said Ferrie tried to get the cadets to speak Russian? Did the cadets say Ferrie was responsible for LHO’s interest in surveillance?

[Len Colby]

So my question to you is can you cite any confirmed cases of 15 – 16 year old boys being recruited in to intel work in the US even if they only formally started working for the intel agency when they were 17 or 18?

Ever hear of Sherlock Holmes and his Baker St Irregulars -- gangs of street kids he sometimes used in his cases?

Ever hear of life immitating art?

Treasury agent Mike Malone ran such kids in New Orleans just opposite where Oswald was living on Exchange Place according to Jim Olmstead.

I have found confirmation of his use of juvenile gangs, but cannot offer any proof at this stage for the New Orleans location.

Sherlock Holmes! Why didn't you cite any of those teen/kiddie spy/detective movies/TV programs?

Were any of Malone's teens in cover for several years or were they informers he pressed for info?

[Len Colby]

Greg you seem a bit confused. According to your own source "Mike Malone...cemented himself inside the Al Capone gang" in Chicago in the early 30's and perhaps late 20's. Even if you claim he was still doing street work 30 years later in New Orleans the town is not mentioned in the book.

http://books.google.com/books?ei=ep_JTIOiDsH88AaomMjTAQ&ct=result&id=1G0TAAAAIAAJ&dq=irs+taxing+heroin+barons&q=malone#search_anchor

http://books.google.com/books?ei=ep_JTIOiDsH88AaomMjTAQ&ct=result&id=1G0TAAAAIAAJ&dq=irs+taxing+heroin+barons&q=new+orleans#search_anchor

[Len Colby]

Milestones, Nov. 21, 1960

Died. Michael F. Malone, 67, Italian-speaking Treasury sleuth whose evidence helped put the Brothers Capone (Al and Ralph) behind bars and who worked under cover against Ganglords Arthur ("Dutch Schultz") Flegenheimer, George ("Machine Gun") Kelly and Ganglady Kate ("Ma") Barker; of a stroke; in St. Paul.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,874229,00.html#ixzz13apKL2jm

Michael F. Malone

known as "Mysterious Mike"

Born in New Jersey on October 21,1893, Michael Malone was the son of Irish natives Lawrence and Mary Malone. He was a World War 1 veteran before becoming a Special agent for the Internal revenue service dept. Growing up in Jersey, Malone had picked up fluent Yiddish, Italian and Greek. This made him perfect for infiltration, especially since his dark hair and complexion made him look European instead of his proud Irish heritage. One striking trait was his eyes, piercing and almost cat like. Michael had married a woman named Irene and together they had a child. Tragically, the child died. Irene and Michael later divorced. This was probably due to the tragic family loss and his indulgence with his secretive Goverment employment.

Malone had worked many high profile cases, such as the Sacco and Vanzetti case, Al Capone and Frank Nitti tax indictments, as well as on the Lindbergh kidnapping. Mike Malone made a court appearance as a witness for Ralph Capone's tax case in 1951. He had been working undercover at Ralph's Mercer Wisconsin hotel for a couple of weeks.

Malone later moved to Ramsey County, St. Paul, Minnesota and lived at 340 Cedar street. He had been a resident there for 24 years. Hospitalized, Michael Malone died on the 10th of November in 1960. It had been 10 days after the onset of a massive cerebral hemorrage. A week after his death, Michael F. Malone is interred at Arlington National Cemetary with full military honors. Truly a brave man.

http://www.myalcaponemuseum.com/id146.htm

Malone would have been 62 – 3 (or 64 if you believe Jim) in the period between LHO signing up for the CAP and the USMC, I really doubt he still be running agents at that age even if he still was on the job. And it seems he was living in St. Paul almost 1200 miles from the “Big Easy”

[William Kelly]

Thanks to Gary Buell for posting this.

An Oswald Witness

http://coverthistory...01_archive.html

(From "The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy: How the CIA Set Up Oswald" by Mark Lane, Hustler, October 1978)

Recently, a former Marine who had served with Oswald in Santa Ana, California, after Oswald had returned from Atsugi, began to talk about his discussions with him. His name is David Bucknell.

Bucknell told me that one day he and Oswald went to a tavern near the base to drink a few beers. Two women approached them. Later that day Oswald told Bucknell the incident with the women reminded him of a experience he had had at Atsugi. Oswald had been alone in a bar when an attractive Japanese woman approached him, he told Bucknell. She asked him some questions about his work on the base. That work was, of course, with the supersecret U-2 program. Oswald,predictably, reported that conversation to his superior officer, who then arranged for a meeting on the base between Oswald and a man dressed in civilian clothes.

The man, a "security" or "security-intelligence" operator, explained to Oswald that he could do his country a great service. Oswald was told that the woman was a KGB contact and that he would be given false information to pass on to her. Oswald agreed, and while still a teenager in the Marine Corps he became an intelligence operative. His liaison with the woman continued; he was given money to spend at the Queen Bee, and apparently encouraged by American intelligence to enter into a sexual relationship with the woman.

Regarding Oswald's tour of duty in Japan, Bucknell can only report what Oswald recounted to him. However, he was involved directly with Oswald in an intelligence effort when they both were at MACS-9. In1959 Oswald, Bucknell and others were ordered to report to the Criminal Investigation (CID) at the base. There a civilian began an effort aimed at recruiting those present for an intelligence operation against "Communists" in Cuba. Oswald was selected to make several additional trips to CID. Later he told Bucknell that the civilian who served as his contact or control at Atsugi had taken over the same job at Santa Ana. Still later, Oswald confided to Bucknell that he, Oswald was to be discharged from the Marine Corps very soon and that he would surface in the Soviet Union. Oswald told Bucknell that he was being sent there on assignment by American intelligence and that he would return to the United States in 1961 as a hero.

Once in Atsugi, Oswald engaged in more than radar monitoring. At a Tokyo

nightclub called the Queen Bee, Oswald became intimate with a hostess who

was believed to be a Russian spy, and contracted gonorrhea. Oswald's medical

record states that the disease was contracted "in line of duty, not due to

own misconduct." Obviously, Oswald was at the time functioning as an agent

of the military, probably performing surveillance on the believed Russian

spy at the Queen Bee. [5]

Kerry Thornley, perhaps Oswald's closest friend at the Atsugi base, in

correspondence with the author recalls an attempt to recruit himself,

Oswald, and a third man into a possible intelligence operation. Thornley

writes,"In the late 1970s I was contacted by David Bucknell, who said he was in

Marine Air Control Squadron Nine with Oswald and me. When he mentioned that

his nickname was'Bucky Beaver,' I recalled Bucknell--a large man with buck

teeth who wore his utility cap all the way down on his head, giving it a

dome shape instead of the common stretched, flat-top shape.

"Bucknell asked me if I remembered an attempt to recruit us (Bucknell,

Oswald, me) to military intelligence. I did not. Then he asked if I

remembered approaching he and Oswald one day and being told by Oswald that

'This is a private conversation.' That I recalled clearly. Bucknell said it

happened as we were on our way to the recruitment lecture.

"Indeed, I remembered the incident occurred as all three of us were walking

in the same direction toward 'Mainside' on the base and away from the radar

outpost.. Bucknell said that minutes earlier, on the outpost, the names of

Oswald, Bucknell and Thornley had been called over the P.A. system and that

we were told to report to the squadron office. In the squadron office, we

were ordered t, report to base security over at 'Mainside' of L.T.A., the

satellite of El Toro Marine Base where we were stationed.

"Bucknell said he and Oswald were running a loan sharking operation and

their private conversation concerned whether or not they were now being

called in for questioning about that. Oswald doubted it, because I had been

called up at the same time and knew nothing about the operation.

"Bucknell says when we arrived at base security we were seated in a small

auditorium or lecture room with a number of men from other outfits. Up in

front, according to Bucknell, was a Marine captain and a Hispanic man in

civilian clothes with a flat-top haircut. Bucknell was surprised to see that

the Captain was acting as an 'errand boy' for this civilian, whom the

Captain finally introduced as 'Mister B.'

" 'Mister B' said, 'We have reason to believe that Castro's new

revolutionary government has been infiltrated by Soviet agents.' (This would

have been in late May or early June of 1959, just after the New Year's Day

Revolution, before Castro 'went Communist·' I recalled someone making that

statement in a lecture I attended, but did not remember the context).

"We had all been called together, said Mr, B., because we were reputed to

be admirers of Fidel Castro. As I understand it, and dimly recall it, the

pitch was that Castro needed our help in getting rid of these agents. We

were being asked to volunteer for a counter-espionage program!

"I'm sure I would have volunteered. To the best of my recollection, I was

ostensibly turned down because I was already slated for a tour of duty in

the Far East, to begin in June, and the training program was in the U.S.-But

not before I signed some papers authorizing using me for intelligence

purposes.

"Bucknell made detailed notes of this extraordinary event the day after it

occurred, and when we met in San Francisco in the late 1970s he read me

those notes.

"Volunteers were interviewed on a one-on-one basis after the recruitment

lecture. Bucknell says he had a maternal grandfather named E.H. Hunt, who

he listed on the recruitment form as a reference. Mister B. looked startled

and said, 'Who is this E.H. Hunt?' Bucknell explained. Mister B. said,

'Oh!,' and laughed. (E. Howard Hunt was second in command under Nixon on the

Bay of Pigs operation.)

'Bucknell was never contacted again in relation to this program. Neither

was I.

"Bucknell says that the Marine Air Control Squadron's covert security was

handled by Army Intelligence, and we now both suspect that Oswald may

already have been an Army Intelligence agent pretending to be a Marxist at

the time of Mr. B.'s recruitment attempt, which may have enhanced his

qualifications for Mr. B.'s program.

Jim Keith, in Mind Control, World Control (Chapter 18) Thanks to Linda Minor

Edited October 29, 2010 by William Kelly

[Greg Parker]

Thanks to Gary Buell for posting this.

An Oswald Witness

http://coverthistory...01_archive.html

(From "The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy: How the CIA Set Up Oswald" by Mark Lane, Hustler, October 1978)

Recently, a former Marine who had served with Oswald in Santa Ana, California, after Oswald had returned from Atsugi, began to talk about his discussions with him. His name is David Bucknell.

Bucknell told me that one day he and Oswald went to a tavern near the base to drink a few beers. Two women approached them. Later that day Oswald told Bucknell the incident with the women reminded him of a experience he had had at Atsugi. Oswald had been alone in a bar when an attractive Japanese woman approached him, he told Bucknell. She asked him some questions about his work on the base. That work was, of course, with the supersecret U-2 program. Oswald,predictably, reported that conversation to his superior officer, who then arranged for a meeting on the base between Oswald and a man dressed in civilian clothes.

The man, a "security" or "security-intelligence" operator, explained to Oswald that he could do his country a great service. Oswald was told that the woman was a KGB contact and that he would be given false information to pass on to her. Oswald agreed, and while still a teenager in the Marine Corps he became an intelligence operative. His liaison with the woman continued; he was given money to spend at the Queen Bee, and apparently encouraged by American intelligence to enter into a sexual relationship with the woman.

Regarding Oswald's tour of duty in Japan, Bucknell can only report what Oswald recounted to him. However, he was involved directly with Oswald in an intelligence effort when they both were at MACS-9. In1959 Oswald, Bucknell and others were ordered to report to the Criminal Investigation (CID) at the base. There a civilian began an effort aimed at recruiting those present for an intelligence operation against "Communists" in Cuba. Oswald was selected to make several additional trips to CID. Later he told Bucknell that the civilian who served as his contact or control at Atsugi had taken over the same job at Santa Ana. Still later, Oswald confided to Bucknell that he, Oswald was to be discharged from the Marine Corps very soon and that he would surface in the Soviet Union. Oswald told Bucknell that he was being sent there on assignment by American intelligence and that he would return to the United States in 1961 as a hero.

Once in Atsugi, Oswald engaged in more than radar monitoring. At a Tokyo

nightclub called the Queen Bee, Oswald became intimate with a hostess who

was believed to be a Russian spy, and contracted gonorrhea. Oswald's medical

record states that the disease was contracted "in line of duty, not due to

own misconduct." Obviously, Oswald was at the time functioning as an agent

of the military, probably performing surveillance on the believed Russian

spy at the Queen Bee. [5]

Maybe someone with Military background can confirm, but I recall reading somewhere that it was recorded this way so long as you could be treated and return to duty within the same day,

Kerry Thornley, perhaps Oswald's closest friend at the Atsugi base,

Thornley was not at Atsugi at the same time as Oswald.

in

correspondence with the author recalls an attempt to recruit himself,

Oswald, and a third man into a possible intelligence operation. Thornley

writes,"In the late 1970s I was contacted by David Bucknell, who said he was in

Marine Air Control Squadron Nine with Oswald and me. When he mentioned that

his nickname was'Bucky Beaver,' I recalled Bucknell--a large man with buck

teeth who wore his utility cap all the way down on his head, giving it a

dome shape instead of the common stretched, flat-top shape.

"Bucknell asked me if I remembered an attempt to recruit us (Bucknell,

Oswald, me) to military intelligence. I did not. Then he asked if I

remembered approaching he and Oswald one day and being told by Oswald that

'This is a private conversation.' That I recalled clearly. Bucknell said it

happened as we were on our way to the recruitment lecture.

"Indeed, I remembered the incident occurred as all three of us were walking

in the same direction toward 'Mainside' on the base and away from the radar

outpost.. Bucknell said that minutes earlier, on the outpost, the names of

Oswald, Bucknell and Thornley had been called over the P.A. system and that

we were told to report to the squadron office. In the squadron office, we

were ordered t, report to base security over at 'Mainside' of L.T.A., the

satellite of El Toro Marine Base where we were stationed.

"Bucknell said he and Oswald were running a loan sharking operation and

their private conversation concerned whether or not they were now being

called in for questioning about that. Oswald doubted it, because I had been

called up at the same time and knew nothing about the operation.

"Bucknell says when we arrived at base security we were seated in a small

auditorium or lecture room with a number of men from other outfits. Up in

front, according to Bucknell, was a Marine captain and a Hispanic man in

civilian clothes with a flat-top haircut. Bucknell was surprised to see that

the Captain was acting as an 'errand boy' for this civilian, whom the

Captain finally introduced as 'Mister B.'

" 'Mister B' said, 'We have reason to believe that Castro's new

revolutionary government has been infiltrated by Soviet agents.' (This would

have been in late May or early June of 1959, just after the New Year's Day

Revolution, before Castro 'went Communist·' I recalled someone making that

statement in a lecture I attended, but did not remember the context).

"We had all been called together, said Mr, B., because we were reputed to

be admirers of Fidel Castro. As I understand it, and dimly recall it, the

pitch was that Castro needed our help in getting rid of these agents. We

were being asked to volunteer for a counter-espionage program!

"I'm sure I would have volunteered. To the best of my recollection, I was

ostensibly turned down because I was already slated for a tour of duty in

the Far East, to begin in June, and the training program was in the U.S.-But

not before I signed some papers authorizing using me for intelligence

purposes.

"Bucknell made detailed notes of this extraordinary event the day after it

occurred, and when we met in San Francisco in the late 1970s he read me

those notes.

"Volunteers were interviewed on a one-on-one basis after the recruitment

lecture. Bucknell says he had a maternal grandfather named E.H. Hunt, who

he listed on the recruitment form as a reference. Mister B. looked startled

and said, 'Who is this E.H. Hunt?' Bucknell explained. Mister B. said,

'Oh!,' and laughed. (E. Howard Hunt was second in command under Nixon on the

Bay of Pigs operation.)

'Bucknell was never contacted again in relation to this program. Neither

was I.

"Bucknell says that the Marine Air Control Squadron's covert security was

handled by Army Intelligence, and we now both suspect that Oswald may

already have been an Army Intelligence agent pretending to be a Marxist at

the time of Mr. B.'s recruitment attempt, which may have enhanced his

qualifications for Mr. B.'s program.

Jim Keith, in Mind Control, World Control (Chapter 18) Thanks to Linda Minor

http://www.mail-arch...m/msg64899.html

[Greg Parker]

Greg you seem a bit confused. According to your own source "Mike Malone...cemented himself inside the Al Capone gang" in Chicago in the early 30's and perhaps late 20's. Even if you claim he was still doing street work 30 years later in New Orleans the town is not mentioned in the book.

http://books.google....e#search_anchor

http://books.google....s#search_anchor

No, I'm not confused, Len... Correct - New Orleans is not mentioned - thus I said, "I have found confirmation of his use of juvenile gangs, but cannot offer any proof at this stage for the New Orleans location."

Yes, Malone cemented himself inside Capone's gang. What's your point there?

[William Kelly]

Re: Oswald and Bucknell & Thornley at El Toro

Greg,

I don't know if the VD is evidence of anything other than Oswald having a good time while in Japan.

And indeed, Oswald and Thornley were not at Atsugi at the same time, as that is a statement that Jim Keith erroniously makes in his book on Mind Control.

He does however, quote Thornley, and I believe Thornley when he says he met up later with Bucknell and Bucknell reminded him of the incident at El Toro

where they received a counter-intel recruitment lecture and Oswald was accepted but Bucknell and Thornley were not.

Is Bucknell still alive? Thornley says he took a lot of notes, and he was not questoned by WC.

http://jfkcountercou...california.html

(From "The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy: How the CIA Set Up Oswald" by Mark Lane, Hustler, October 1978)

Recently, a former Marine who had served with Oswald in Santa Ana, California, after Oswald had returned from Atsugi, began to talk about his discussions with him. His name is David Bucknell.

Bucknell told me that one day he and Oswald went to a tavern near the base to drink a few beers. Two women approached them. Later that day Oswald told Bucknell the incident with the women reminded him of a experience he had had at Atsugi. Oswald had been alone in a bar when an attractive Japanese woman approached him, he told Bucknell. She asked him some questions about his work on the base. That work was, of course, with the supersecret U-2 program. Oswald,predictably, reported that conversation to his superior officer, who then arranged for a meeting on the base between Oswald and a man dressed in civilian clothes.

The man, a "security" or "security-intelligence" operator, explained to Oswald that he could do his country a great service. Oswald was told that the woman was a KGB contact and that he would be given false information to pass on to her. Oswald agreed, and while still a teenager in the Marine Corps he became an intelligence operative. His liaison with the woman continued; he was given money to spend at the Queen Bee, and apparently encouraged by American intelligence to enter into a sexual relationship with the woman.

Regarding Oswald's tour of duty in Japan, Bucknell can only report what Oswald recounted to him. However, he was involved directly with Oswald in an intelligence effort when they both were at MACS-9. In1959 Oswald, Bucknell and others were ordered to report to the Criminal Investigation (CID) at the base. There a civilian began an effort aimed at recruiting those present for an intelligence operation against "Communists" in Cuba. Oswald was selected to make several additional trips to CID. Later he told Bucknell that the civilian who served as his contact or control at Atsugi had taken over the same job at Santa Ana. Still later, Oswald confided to Bucknell that he, Oswald was to be discharged from the Marine Corps very soon and that he would surface in the Soviet Union. Oswald told Bucknell that he was being sent there on assignment by American intelligence and that he would return to the United States in 1961 as a hero.

Thanks to Gary Buell for posting this. An Oswald Witness

http://coverthistory...01_archive.html

Jim Keith wrote:

Once in Atsugi, Oswald engaged in more than radar monitoring. At a Tokyo nightclub called the Queen Bee, Oswald became intimate with a hostess who was believed to be a Russian spy, and contracted gonorrhea. Oswald's medical record states that the disease was contracted "in line of duty, not due to own misconduct." Obviously, Oswald was at the time functioning as an agent of the military, probably performing surveillance on the believed Russian spy at the Queen Bee. [5]

Kerry Thornley, perhaps Oswald's closest friend at the Atsugi base, in correspondence with the author recalls an attempt to recruit himself, Oswald, and a third man into a possible intelligence operation. Thornley writes,"In the late 1970s I was contacted by David Bucknell, who said he was in Marine Air Control Squadron Nine with Oswald and me. When he mentioned that his nickname was'Bucky Beaver,' I recalled Bucknell--a large man with buck teeth who wore his utility cap all the way down on his head, giving it a dome shape instead of the common stretched, flat-top shape.

"Bucknell asked me if I remembered an attempt to recruit us (Bucknell, Oswald, me) to military intelligence. I did not. Then he asked if I remembered approaching he and Oswald one day and being told by Oswald that 'This is a private conversation.' That I recalled clearly. Bucknell said it happened as we were on our way to the recruitment lecture.

"Indeed, I remembered the incident occurred as all three of us were walking in the same direction toward 'Mainside' on the base and away from the radar outpost. Bucknell said that minutes earlier, on the outpost, the names of Oswald, Bucknell and Thornley had been called over the P.A. system and that we were told to report to the squadron office. In the squadron office, we were ordered t, report to base security over at 'Mainside' of L.T.A., the satellite of El Toro Marine Base where we were stationed.

"Bucknell said he and Oswald were running a loan sharking operation and their private conversation concerned whether or not they were now being called in for questioning about that. Oswald doubted it, because I had been up at the same time and knew nothing about the operation.

"Bucknell says when we arrived at base security we were seated in a small auditorium or lecture room with a number of men from other outfits. Up in front, according to Bucknell, was a Marine captain and a Hispanic man in civilian clothes with a flat-top haircut. Bucknell was surprised to see that the Captain was acting as an 'errand boy' for this civilian, whom the Captain finally introduced as 'Mister B.'

"'Mister B' said,'We have reason to believe that Castro's new revolutionary government has been infiltrated by Soviet agents.' (This would have been in late May or early June of 1959, just after the New Year's Day Revolution, before Castro 'went Communist' I recalled someone making that statement in a lecture I attended, but did not remember the context).

"We had all been called together, said Mr, B., because we were reputed to be admirers of Fidel Castro. As I understand it, and dimly recall it, the pitch was that Castro needed our help in getting rid of these agents. We were being asked to volunteer for a counter-espionage program!

"I'm sure I would have volunteered. To the best of my recollection, I was ostensibly turned down because I was already slated for a tour of duty in the Far East, to begin in June, and the training program was in the U.S. But not before I signed some papers authorizing using me for intelligence purposes.

"Bucknell made detailed notes of this extraordinary event the day after it occurred, and when we met in San Francisco in the late 1970s he read me those notes.

"Volunteers were interviewed on a one-on-one basis after the recruitment lecture. Bucknell says he had a maternal grandfather named E.H. Hunt, who he listed on the recruitment form as a reference. Mister B. looked startled and said, 'Who is this E.H. Hunt?' Bucknell explained. Mister B. said, 'Oh!,' and laughed. (E. Howard Hunt was second in command under Nixon on the Bay of Pigs operation.) 'Bucknell was never contacted again in relation to this program. Neither was I.

"Bucknell says that the Marine Air Control Squadron's covert security was handled by Army Intelligence, and we now both suspect that Oswald may already have been an Army Intelligence agent pretending to be a Marxist at the time of Mr. B.'s recruitment attempt, which may have enhanced his qualifications for Mr. B.'s program.

Jim Keith, in Mind Control, World Control (Chapter 18) Thanks to Linda Minor

http://www.mail-arch...m/msg64899.html

In a letter to Doc Hambone, Kerry Thornley wrote:

"...David Bucknell, who was in the Marines with Oswald and me, told me in 1979 that security for Marine radar outfits was handled by Army Intelligence, and there are rumors that Oswald and David Ferrie were involved in Satanist activities in New Orleans. And there are many reasons for believing that when Bucknell and I knew him, Oswald was a military intelligence operative pretending to be a self-styled Marxist 'xxxxbird.'"

Letter from Kerry Thornley to Dr. Doc Hambone (Austin, Tx)

http://www.american-...letterkerry.htm

Edited October 29, 2010 by William Kelly

[Greg Parker]

So my question to you is can you cite any confirmed cases of 15 – 16 year old boys being recruited in to intel work in the US even if they only formally started working for the intel agency when they were 17 or 18?

Ever hear of Sherlock Holmes and his Baker St Irregulars -- gangs of street kids he sometimes used in his cases?

Ever hear of life immitating art?

Treasury agent Mike Malone ran such kids in New Orleans just opposite where Oswald was living on Exchange Place according to Jim Olmstead.

I have found confirmation of his use of juvenile gangs, but cannot offer any proof at this stage for the New Orleans location.

Sherlock Holmes! Why didn't you cite any of those teen/kiddie spy/detective movies/TV programs?

Why don't I cite any of those teen / kiddie shows? Because they are not being run by a government agent or detective. Duh!!!

Were any of Malone's teens in cover for several years or were they informers he pressed for info?

Not sure. Are you attempting to change the question yout put to Jim, now?

Edited October 29, 2010 by Greg Parker

[Greg Parker]

Milestones, Nov. 21, 1960

Died. Michael F. Malone, 67, Italian-speaking Treasury sleuth whose evidence helped put the Brothers Capone (Al and Ralph) behind bars and who worked under cover against Ganglords Arthur ("Dutch Schultz") Flegenheimer, George ("Machine Gun") Kelly and Ganglady Kate ("Ma") Barker; of a stroke; in St. Paul.

Read more: http://www.time.com/...l#ixzz13apKL2jm

Michael F. Malone

known as "Mysterious Mike"

Born in New Jersey on October 21,1893, Michael Malone was the son of Irish natives Lawrence and Mary Malone. He was a World War 1 veteran before becoming a Special agent for the Internal revenue service dept. Growing up in Jersey, Malone had picked up fluent Yiddish, Italian and Greek. This made him perfect for infiltration, especially since his dark hair and complexion made him look European instead of his proud Irish heritage. One striking trait was his eyes, piercing and almost cat like. Michael had married a woman named Irene and together they had a child. Tragically, the child died. Irene and Michael later divorced. This was probably due to the tragic family loss and his indulgence with his secretive Goverment employment.

Malone had worked many high profile cases, such as the Sacco and Vanzetti case, Al Capone and Frank Nitti tax indictments, as well as on the Lindbergh kidnapping. Mike Malone made a court appearance as a witness for Ralph Capone's tax case in 1951. He had been working undercover at Ralph's Mercer Wisconsin hotel for a couple of weeks.

Malone later moved to Ramsey County, St. Paul, Minnesota and lived at 340 Cedar street. He had been a resident there for 24 years. Hospitalized, Michael Malone died on the 10th of November in 1960. It had been 10 days after the onset of a massive cerebral hemorrage. A week after his death, Michael F. Malone is interred at Arlington National Cemetary with full military honors. Truly a brave man.

http://www.myalcapon...m.com/id146.htm

Malone would have been 62 – 3 (or 64 if you believe Jim) in the period between LHO signing up for the CAP and the USMC, I really doubt he still be running agents at that age even if he still was on the job. And it seems he was living in St. Paul almost 1200 miles from the "Big Easy"

Are you some type of ageist now? Reagan was older than that when he started running a country - not just a bunch of kids - and he did with only half a brain.

As for the residency question... get a grip. Are you really putting forth the idea that someone cannot be a resident of one state while working in another?

[Greg Parker]

Re: Oswald and Bucknell & Thornley at El Toro

Greg,

I don't know if the VD is evidence of anything other than Oswald having a good time while in Japan.

Yeah I know, Bill... but the note about it being in the line of duty is being used to support an argument by others, but shouldn't be if the information I remember is correct.

And indeed, Oswald and Thornley were not at Atsugi at the same time, as that is a statement that Jim Keith erroniously makes in his book on Mind Control.

He does however, quote Thornley, and I believe Thornley when he says he met up later with Bucknell and Bucknell reminded him of the incident at El Toro

where they received a counter-intel recruitment lecture and Oswald was accepted but Bucknell and Thornley were not.

Bucknell first surfaced for a French documentary. Thornley never mentioned him prior to that, and Epstein claimed Bucknell's name was not on any roster of men at El Toro.

Is Bucknell still alive? Thornley says he took a lot of notes, and he was not questoned by WC.

If he is, I suggest the first thing that needs to be done is to obtain proof he was at El Toro with Oswald. Thornley's word, given his track record and the fact that he never mentioned Bucknell prior to the documentary, doesn't inspire much confidence.

http://jfkcountercou...california.html

(From "The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy: How the CIA Set Up Oswald" by Mark Lane, Hustler, October 1978)

Recently, a former Marine who had served with Oswald in Santa Ana, California, after Oswald had returned from Atsugi, began to talk about his discussions with him. His name is David Bucknell.

Bucknell told me that one day he and Oswald went to a tavern near the base to drink a few beers. Two women approached them. Later that day Oswald told Bucknell the incident with the women reminded him of a experience he had had at Atsugi. Oswald had been alone in a bar when an attractive Japanese woman approached him, he told Bucknell. She asked him some questions about his work on the base. That work was, of course, with the supersecret U-2 program. Oswald,predictably, reported that conversation to his superior officer, who then arranged for a meeting on the base between Oswald and a man dressed in civilian clothes.

The man, a "security" or "security-intelligence" operator, explained to Oswald that he could do his country a great service. Oswald was told that the woman was a KGB contact and that he would be given false information to pass on to her. Oswald agreed, and while still a teenager in the Marine Corps he became an intelligence operative. His liaison with the woman continued; he was given money to spend at the Queen Bee, and apparently encouraged by American intelligence to enter into a sexual relationship with the woman.

Regarding Oswald's tour of duty in Japan, Bucknell can only report what Oswald recounted to him. However, he was involved directly with Oswald in an intelligence effort when they both were at MACS-9. In1959 Oswald, Bucknell and others were ordered to report to the Criminal Investigation (CID) at the base. There a civilian began an effort aimed at recruiting those present for an intelligence operation against "Communists" in Cuba. Oswald was selected to make several additional trips to CID. Later he told Bucknell that the civilian who served as his contact or control at Atsugi had taken over the same job at Santa Ana. Still later, Oswald confided to Bucknell that he, Oswald was to be discharged from the Marine Corps very soon and that he would surface in the Soviet Union. Oswald told Bucknell that he was being sent there on assignment by American intelligence and that he would return to the United States in 1961 as a hero.

Thanks to Gary Buell for posting this. An Oswald Witness

http://coverthistory...01_archive.html

Jim Keith wrote:

Once in Atsugi, Oswald engaged in more than radar monitoring. At a Tokyo nightclub called the Queen Bee, Oswald became intimate with a hostess who was believed to be a Russian spy, and contracted gonorrhea. Oswald's medical record states that the disease was contracted "in line of duty, not due to own misconduct." Obviously, Oswald was at the time functioning as an agent of the military, probably performing surveillance on the believed Russian spy at the Queen Bee. [5]

Kerry Thornley, perhaps Oswald's closest friend at the Atsugi base, in correspondence with the author recalls an attempt to recruit himself, Oswald, and a third man into a possible intelligence operation. Thornley writes,"In the late 1970s I was contacted by David Bucknell, who said he was in Marine Air Control Squadron Nine with Oswald and me. When he mentioned that his nickname was'Bucky Beaver,' I recalled Bucknell--a large man with buck teeth who wore his utility cap all the way down on his head, giving it a dome shape instead of the common stretched, flat-top shape.

"Bucknell asked me if I remembered an attempt to recruit us (Bucknell, Oswald, me) to military intelligence. I did not. Then he asked if I remembered approaching he and Oswald one day and being told by Oswald that 'This is a private conversation.' That I recalled clearly. Bucknell said it happened as we were on our way to the recruitment lecture.

"Indeed, I remembered the incident occurred as all three of us were walking in the same direction toward 'Mainside' on the base and away from the radar outpost. Bucknell said that minutes earlier, on the outpost, the names of Oswald, Bucknell and Thornley had been called over the P.A. system and that we were told to report to the squadron office. In the squadron office, we were ordered t, report to base security over at 'Mainside' of L.T.A., the satellite of El Toro Marine Base where we were stationed.

"Bucknell said he and Oswald were running a loan sharking operation and their private conversation concerned whether or not they were now being called in for questioning about that. Oswald doubted it, because I had been up at the same time and knew nothing about the operation.

"Bucknell says when we arrived at base security we were seated in a small auditorium or lecture room with a number of men from other outfits. Up in front, according to Bucknell, was a Marine captain and a Hispanic man in civilian clothes with a flat-top haircut. Bucknell was surprised to see that the Captain was acting as an 'errand boy' for this civilian, whom the Captain finally introduced as 'Mister B.'

"'Mister B' said,'We have reason to believe that Castro's new revolutionary government has been infiltrated by Soviet agents.' (This would have been in late May or early June of 1959, just after the New Year's Day Revolution, before Castro 'went Communist•' I recalled someone making that statement in a lecture I attended, but did not remember the context).

"We had all been called together, said Mr, B., because we were reputed to be admirers of Fidel Castro. As I understand it, and dimly recall it, the pitch was that Castro needed our help in getting rid of these agents. We were being asked to volunteer for a counter-espionage program!

"I'm sure I would have volunteered. To the best of my recollection, I was ostensibly turned down because I was already slated for a tour of duty in the Far East, to begin in June, and the training program was in the U.S. But not before I signed some papers authorizing using me for intelligence purposes.

"Bucknell made detailed notes of this extraordinary event the day after it occurred, and when we met in San Francisco in the late 1970s he read me those notes.

"Volunteers were interviewed on a one-on-one basis after the recruitment lecture. Bucknell says he had a maternal grandfather named E.H. Hunt, who he listed on the recruitment form as a reference. Mister B. looked startled and said, 'Who is this E.H. Hunt?' Bucknell explained. Mister B. said, 'Oh!,' and laughed. (E. Howard Hunt was second in command under Nixon on the Bay of Pigs operation.) 'Bucknell was never contacted again in relation to this program. Neither was I.

"Bucknell says that the Marine Air Control Squadron's covert security was handled by Army Intelligence, and we now both suspect that Oswald may already have been an Army Intelligence agent pretending to be a Marxist at the time of Mr. B.'s recruitment attempt, which may have enhanced his qualifications for Mr. B.'s program.

Jim Keith, in Mind Control, World Control (Chapter 18) Thanks to Linda Minor

http://www.mail-arch...m/msg64899.html

In a letter to Doc Hambone, Kerry Thornley wrote:

"...David Bucknell, who was in the Marines with Oswald and me, told me in 1979 that security for Marine radar outfits was handled by Army Intelligence, and there are rumors that Oswald and David Ferrie were involved in Satanist activities in New Orleans. And there are many reasons for believing that when Bucknell and I knew him, Oswald was a military intelligence operative pretending to be a self-styled Marxist 'xxxxbird.'"

Letter from Kerry Thornley to Dr. Doc Hambone (Austin, Tx)

http://www.american-...letterkerry.htm

[Len Colby]

Malone would have been 62 – 3 (or 64 if you believe Jim) in the period between LHO signing up for the CAP and the USMC, I really doubt he still be running agents at that age even if he still was on the job. And it seems he was living in St. Paul almost 1200 miles from the "Big Easy"

Are you some type of ageist now? Reagan was older than that when he started running a country - not just a bunch of kids - and he did with only half a brain.

IRS Criminal Investigation Special Agent

[…]

Special Agents are covered under the Federal Employees' Retirement System (FERS). Therefore, Special Agents may retire at the age of 50 with 20 years of federal law enforcement service, or at any age with 25 years of such service. Mandatory provisions require that all law enforcement personnel retire at the age of 57 with 20 years of law enforcement service, or immediately upon completing 20 years of service.

http://jobs.irs.gov/midcareer/criminal-investigation-special-agent.html

Federal law requires that Special Agents retire by age 57. In rare circumstances, the FBI Director may grant one-year extensions, up to age 60, for a particular Special Agent.

http://www2.fbi.gov/libref/factsfigure/employ.htm

Even if such rules were not in place at the time there probably was an “up or out”policy and even if there wasn’t Malone sound like a smart and ambitious guy thus the odds of him still running a bunch of informers in his early 60’s is unlikely especially in NO since I could find no mention of him ever working there and he seems to have lived 1200 miles away. Did he realy run kids in Chicago? Please provide a quote. Even if he did an informer is not the same as an agent.

As for the residency question... get a grip. Are you really putting forth the idea that someone cannot be a resident of one state while working in another?

No that happens all the time when the states are near each other for example many people who work in NYC live in NJ or CT but 1200 miles is a very long commute. He could have lived in NO for a few years but I’ve seen no mention of this.

LEN: Were any of Malone's teens in cover for several years or were they informers he pressed for info?

GREG: Not sure. Are you attempting to change the question yout put to Jim, now?

No the question remains the same I asked him about “confirmed cases of 15 – 16 year old boys being recruited in to intel work in the US” being an informer is not the same as being an intel agent.