More problems for the Warrenati: The deposit slip

[David Von Pein]

Thanks for sticking around here and taking all this abuse.

Ah, well. It's my job. So, what can I do? Ya can't buck the Langley boys.

[Bernice Moore]

How could LHO mail a m/o for a kleins rifle on march 12/63.. at a corner box see http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/parnell/chrono.htm in Dallas and it be deposited the very next day in Chicago on MARCH 13/63...?

[David Von Pein]

It could not.

And this is what DVP's latest mission is: To obfuscate that fact.

Since he knows it cannot be done either.

So, the March 12-13 money order thing is example #299 (at least) on the ever-growing list labelled "THINGS THAT THE RETARDED PATSY-FRAMERS SCREWED UP", with the idiot plotters deliberately doing "impossible" things to frame everybody's favorite patsy for all 11/22/63 murders.

But apparently DiEugenio feels there is no need to ask: Why would the plotters and cover-uppers do it like this, when they could have just as easily made it look like the money order was deposited on March 16 or 17 or 18, or any date they choose, since every single thing to do with Oswald was FAKE anyway?

And, of course, DiEugenio doesn't bat an eyelash when it comes to the fact that the HSCA determined that everything to do with the money order was totally legitimate, even though the HSCA was dying to find a conspiracy in the case.

Jimbo, you're a stitch.

[Gil Jesus]

Gil:

Is there a deposit slip dated March 13th?

If there is, I haven't seen it. That's what leads me to believe that the bulk list is some sort of bank statement rather than a deposit slip. Also, I've NEVER seen a deposit slip itemized like that.

Another thing is that there's more than one deposit in Waldman 10, the one for $ 13,000+ and another for $ 2,116 and change. If they were part of the same deposit on the same day, why weren't they totalled together ?

This is what makes me think that this bulk list is a statement, rather than a deposit slip.

Here's what the testimony says:

Mr. WALDMAN. ..... Now, we cannot specifically say when this money order was deposited, but on our deposit of March 13, 1963, we show an item of $21.45, as indicated on the Xerox copy of our deposit slip marked, or identified by--as Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 10.

Mr. BELIN. And I have just marked as a document what you are reading from, which appears to be a deposit with the First National Bank of Chicago by your company; is that correct?

Mr. WALDMAN. That's correct.

Mr. BELIN. And on that deposit, one of the items is $21.45, out of a total deposit that day of $13,827.98; is that correct ?

Mr. WALDMAN. That's correct.

( 7 H 367-368 )

We know that the $ 21.45 deposit they are referring to is an American Express Money Order and NOT the "Hidell" postal order because it is described IN DETAIL by Robert Wilmouth, VP of Operations of the First National Bank of Chicago in Commission Document 7, pg. 192. His description is so precise that he describes the entries listed before and after the "$ 21.45" in Waldman 10 to their exact penny.

That's pretty credible to me.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Gil Jesus

[Gil Jesus]

Why would the plotters and cover-uppers do it like this, when they could have just as easily made it look like the money order was deposited on March 16 or 17 or 18, or any date they choose, since every single thing to do with Oswald was FAKE anyway?

For two reasons: First, the FBI had to "prove" an Oswald propensity for violence. That means that they had to have him shooting at General Walker and they had to have him receiving the rifle before that shooting. So they were saddled with a time constraint. They couldn't have him receiving the rifle later than he should have.

Secondly, they had documents they had to work with to make it appear the dates were correct. They had Klein's deposit information BEFORE the Money Order was "found", meaning that the 3/12/63 stamp on the Money Order could have been stamped AFTER they found a $ 21.45 entry in the 3-13-63 Klein's bank statement.

That would certainly explain WHY the money order was never stamped by any financial institution.

Of course, the $ 21.45 entry in Waldman 10 wasn't the Hidell money order at all, but instead was an American Express Money Order. ( CD 7, pg. 192 ) But that didn't matter because the only man who knew that ( Wilmouth ) was kept off the witness list by the FBI and never testified either before the commission or by deposition.

You don't understand because you're trying to "reason" it from the beginning, when for the first time in your life, you'd be correct to start at the end and work backwards.

It wasn't a perfect crime.

As I said earlier, they had time constraints to deal with. In order to have the rifle received by Oswald before the Walker shooting, it had to be ordered in March. That means that it had to come from a February catalog. This is one of the ways they screwed up....they produced an order for a rifle that was available from Klein's IN FEBRUARY, a 36" carbine, rather than the 40" short rifle found in the TSBD.

It wasn't that they were idiots or buffoons, it was because they had a timeline they had to work with. In addition, they may not have known that there was a difference between the two rifles.

And they didn't believe anyone would research their work, let alone read it.

The reason why Part 3 of the postal application for box 2915 in Dallas is no longer is because Harry Holmes destroyed it to hide the fact that "A.Hidell" was never listed as one authorized to receive mail at that box.

Then he lied under oath to the WC by telling them that part 3 was destroyed according to regulations when the box was closed.

That record was supposed to be kept for two years.

Holmes, the Dallas Postal Inspector, was an FBI informant inside the Dallas post office and had access to any and all postal records.

That's why there's no record of any 40" rifle being shipped to Box 2915 in Dallas.

That's why no postal employee ever remembered handing a rifle to Oswald.

That's why there's no postal delivery receipt for the 40" rifle.

That's why there's no postal declaration document for the rifle.

That's why the person who found the money order "stub" at the Dallas post office was never identified.

All of the phoney postal documentation surrounding the ordering, purchase and payment for the rifle was handled by Harry Holmes' post office.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Gil Jesus

[Gil Jesus]

the HSCA determined that everything to do with the money order was totally legitimate

Really ? What did the HSCA say about the missing bank stamps ?

[Michael Hogan]

.....even though the HSCA was dying to find a conspiracy in the case.

Gaeton Fonzi, Ed Lopez and even Dan Hardway tell a different story.

[David Josephs]

DVP -

Why exactly do you assume that SINCE there was a conspiracy, the idea was to hide it? I believe the intent of the conspiracy was to FIRST - implicate Oswald in one form or another and SECOND - to serve as a warning to ANYONE with ideas of going up against the war-fare state.

EVERYONE knew it was a conspiracy from the moment it happened... the number of people who support a shot from the front is monumental David. Ignoring that evidence only makes it go away in your mind - to the rest of us it is indicative of a conspiracy - of a plan involving more than a Lone Nut trying to kill a president.

So let me ask you a simply question

Does an innocent government conduct itself in the manner it did in an honest attempt to find the killer of its president?

Please illustrate these innocent, honest actions in pursuit of the truth

as opposed to their twisting, discarding, altering and/or changing each piece of evidence to implicate Oswald IN SPITE OF THE FACTS.

The reailty is a conspiracy which ultimately takes the form of an ethical and moral cover-up by people simply too afraid, too involved or simply flat out ORDERED to do nothing about it.

As you so eloquently put it - the president was indeed killed... mission accomplished

Oswald is killed by one of the most connected men in Dallas... mission accomplished

LBJ is now president and the entire world changes... mission accomplished

Hoover is in office for life.... mission accomplished

The military and CIA get to escalate Vietnam.... mission accomplished

The Cold War continues... mission accomplished

It's obvious to most Americans and to the rest of the world that US leaders are not exempt from political assassination and the cover-up/change of policies that go along with it.

Including changes to the Constitution:

Notes for this amendment:

Proposed 7/6/1965

Ratified 2/10/1967

4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

[Gil Jesus]

GJ: The reason why Part 3 of the postal application for box 2915 in Dallas is no longer is because Harry Holmes destroyed it to hide the fact that "A.Hidell" was never listed as one authorized to receive mail at that box.

THey did lie about it being gone Gil, but I think the application is at Vol. 19 p. 286.

Only Lee Oswald is on it, no Hidell.

That's only Part 2 of the application.

Part 1 was the instructions and was a throw-away.

Part 2 was the info of the applicant

Part 3 listed anyone else beside the applicant who was authorized to receive mail at the box.

Here's a blank application to illustrate what I mean:

[Gil Jesus]

GJ: The reason why Part 3 of the postal application for box 2915 in Dallas is no longer is because Harry Holmes destroyed it to hide the fact that "A.Hidell" was never listed as one authorized to receive mail at that box.

THey did lie about it being gone Gil, but I think the application is at Vol. 19 p. 286.

Only Lee Oswald is on it, no Hidell.

That's only Part 2 of the application.

Part 1 was the instructions and was a throw-away.

Part 2 was the info of the applicant

Part 3 listed anyone else beside the applicant who was authorized to receive mail at the box.

Here's a blank application to illustrate what I mean:

Postal regulation 846.5H required that the post office box application ( parts 2 & 3 ) be kept on record for two years after the box was closed:

[Gil Jesus]

GJ: The reason why Part 3 of the postal application for box 2915 in Dallas is no longer is because Harry Holmes destroyed it to hide the fact that "A.Hidell" was never listed as one authorized to receive mail at that box.

THey did lie about it being gone Gil, but I think the application is at Vol. 19 p. 286.

Only Lee Oswald is on it, no Hidell.

That's only Part 2 of the application.

Part 1 was the instructions and was a throw-away.

Part 2 was the info of the applicant

Part 3 listed anyone else beside the applicant who was authorized to receive mail at the box.

Here's a blank application to illustrate what I mean:

Postal regulation 846.5H required that the post office box application ( parts 2 & 3 ) be kept on record for two years after the box was closed:

Had "Hidell's" name not been on the application, the package would have been marked "addressee unknown" and returned to sender:

Edited March 11, 2011 by Gil Jesus

[David Von Pein]

I think Jim DiEugenio made the exact same error that the FBI made when Jimbo said this in an earlier post:

"The application [and Jim is talking about an application that he thinks is for P.O. Box 2915] is at Vol. 19 p. 286. Only Lee Oswald is on it, no Hidell."

The error being:

The FBI mistakenly thought that BOTH of the application segments found in Cadigan Exhibit 13 were for PO Box 2915. But they aren't. The top section is for Box 6225, which Oswald rented in November '63.

And (in my opinion), this could have very well led to an error made in an FBI report that stated that they had actually examined Part 3 of the Box 2915 application [see CE2585], which is impossible since it was discarded after Oswald closed that box in May '63. And this FBI error is often repeated and cited by CTers as being proof of some kind of hanky-panky with the PO Box applications.

And for proof that people can easily get confused and make errors concerning Oswald's various P.O. Box applications, check out this blog post of mine from last July (which also straightens out some incorrect information regarding the P.O. Boxes peddled by Mark Lane in his 1966 book "Rush To Judgment").

Edited March 11, 2011 by David Von Pein