Oswald's Coke

[Ken Davies]

WR, page 613 states that Oswald claims that he ate his lunch on the first floor and got a bottle of coke from the machine on the second floor for his lunch. It does not deal with Baker or Truly.

[David Von Pein]

I just said that, Ken.

[Ken Davies]

WR, page 619 also claims that Oswald said that he did not own a rifle. Why should we believe the Baker/ Truly claim on that page but not believe the rifle claim? Fries with that sir?

[David Von Pein]

WR, page 619 also claims that Oswald said that he did not own a rifle. Why should we believe the Baker/ Truly claim on that page but not believe the rifle claim?

You're kidding, right?

There's tons of corroboration for Oswald lying about the "never owned a rifle" fiction (such as the backyard photos and the money order--and the Klein's order form for the rifle from the American Rifleman magazine that was filled out in Oswald's own handwriting--and Waldman Exhibit No. 7, which all prove that LHO was lying through his teeth about the rifle), and there's corroboration for Oswald telling the truth about seeing Baker & Truly on the 2nd floor (the corroboration: Baker and Truly themselves).

You mean to say there are actually still people who think Baker and Truly just lied their asses off about encountering Lee Oswald in the second-floor lunchroom?

Incrediburgable!

Fries with that sir?

No thanks, Ken. I'll just settle for Oswald's Coke with my meal tonight. He's not going to finish it anyway--seeing as how it's just a prop.

Edited September 27, 2013 by David Von Pein

[William Kelly]

That's an interesting excerpt from the London Trial, I'd like to see the rest of Baker's testimony. He is a very convincing witness, and VB doesn't ask him much, just enough to establish that Oswald could have been there in the aloted time, but Baker is sure to get in the fact that he first saw Oswald through the window of the closed door. There are other interviews with Baker on Youtube

The defense attorney didn't do his homework, and failed to get Baker to identify Lovelady, to Baker's credit, and then didn't bring out the fact that it wasn't Baker who identified Oswald, it was Truly. And if Truly was ahead of Baker, how come he didn't see Oswald? These facts would have been brought out in the grand jury where they would have been questioned more intently under oath, and you can't go to a real trial without going through a grand jury. And I guess Truly wasn't hired as an actor for this TV show.

The defense attorney however, does bring out the fact that Baker found Oswald cool as a Cookie - 77 Sunset Strip or the Fonz.

And DVP would have us believe he was like Jerry Lewis - the Delinquent.

[David Von Pein]

And DVP would have us believe he was like Jerry Lewis - the Delinquent.

Nah. He was much more like Jerry Lewis in this 1964 feature flick (one of the CTers' favorites, I would guess).....

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058456/

[David Von Pein]

A 1964 CBS-TV interview with Marrion Baker is on this webpage (scroll a little ways to see it). Roy Truly is interviewed in that same video .... DVP-Video-Audio-Archive / Witness Videos

Edited September 27, 2013 by David Von Pein

[Robert Prudhomme]

[When] did Oswald say he encountered Baker and Truly on the 2nd floor?

In the Hosty/Bookhout report, which details their interrogation of Oswald on November 22

[WR; Page 613]. And in another of FBI agent Bookhout's reports, which also details Oswald's statements [WR; Page 619]. Oswald didn't mention the encounter with Baker in the first report

linked above, but he does in the second one. But he says he was on the second floor in each instance.

I don't suppose Hosty/Bookhout got Oswald's signature verifying that report, did they? A report written in the 3rd party is not evidence, Dave.

I could write a report about you, claiming you admitted to all kinds of things. Would that make them true?

[William Kelly]

A 1964 CBS-TV interview with Marrion Baker is on this webpage (scroll a little ways to see it). Roy Truly is interviewed in that same video .... DVP-Video-Audio-Archive / Witness Videos

Thanks David, That's the CBS interview - I like it when Truly is asked if Oswald could have fired the shots and got to where he met Baker and Truly in time, less than two minutes, and Truly says "if he was fast. The roof is low and the stairs have few steps," so the low roof and few steps worked in Oswald's favor. Boy was he lucky the roof was low and there were so few steps

[Robert Prudhomme]

"Willens’ book reveals how the commission conducted its work, and also how the team learned a decade later that both the FBI and CIA had lied to them on critical matters. The book acknowledges some of the commission’s mistakes (leading to still-thriving conspiracy theories) and the report was subjected to four major investigations. Its title, and emphasis, stems from a 1965 comment from U.S. Chief Justice Earl Warren, who said to critics of the commission he chaired, “History will prove us right.”"

So, one of the senior staffers on the WC admits in his book that the CIA and FBI lied to the WC on critical matters?

What do the Bobbsey Twins have to say about that, I wonder?

[David Von Pein]

I don't suppose Hosty/Bookhout got Oswald's signature verifying that report, did they? A report written in the 3rd party is not evidence, Dave.

I could write a report about you, claiming you admitted to all kinds of things. Would that make them true?

Well, I'm so sorry Bob, but all anyone can muster are the "hearsay" reports of the FBI agents, Captain Fritz, and Postal Inspector Holmes. Not many other people were present when Oswald was talking. I would have delivered a tape recorder to Captain Fritz myself, but unfortunately I was a bit young and didn't get out of my baby crib too much back in '63. Sorry (again).

But why on Earth would you think Marrion Baker and Roy Truly were lying about seeing Oswald on the second floor? (Or do you think they were?)

Plus, I find it very interesting to see the conspiracy theorists doubting the legitimacy of the Baker/Truly/Oswald 2nd-floor encounter....because most of the time the CTers enjoy utilizing that encounter to try and verify their inaccurate belief that Oswald couldn't have been the sixth-floor assassin. I.E., Oswald couldn't possibly have travelled down those four flights of stairs so fast. Ergo, he must be innocent.

Which way do the CTers want to go with it? ~shrug~

Edited September 27, 2013 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

I like it when Truly is asked if Oswald could have fired the shots and got to where he met Baker and Truly in time, less than two minutes, and Truly says "if he was fast. The roof is low and the stairs have few steps," so the low roof and few steps worked in Oswald's favor. Boy was he lucky the roof was low and there were so few steps.

As if Roy Truly's opinion on this point makes any difference whatsoever. We know for a fact that a human being (with two working legs) can definitely get from the sixth-floor sniper's perch down to the second-floor lunchroom in less than 80 seconds -- and that time was achieved by Secret Service agent John J. Howlett while not even running or trotting or walking very fast. Howlett did it in just 78 seconds while walking at a "normal walking pace" [WR; Page 152]. And "Howlett was not short winded at the end of either test run" [WR; Pg. 152].

I wonder why so many conspiracy believers just totally ignore the Howlett test runs that are detailed on Page 152 of the Warren Commission Report? I suppose everything that's written on that page is nothing but a great-big lie too. Is that what the CTers believe?

DVP's JFK Archives / Reconstructing The Steps Of A Presidential Assassin

Edited September 27, 2013 by David Von Pein

[Robert Prudhomme]

I don't suppose Hosty/Bookhout got Oswald's signature verifying that report, did they? A report written in the 3rd party is not evidence, Dave.

I could write a report about you, claiming you admitted to all kinds of things. Would that make them true?

Well, I'm so sorry Bob, but all anyone can muster are the "hearsay" reports of the FBI agents, Captain Fritz, and Postal Inspector Holmes. Not many other people were present when Oswald was talking. I would have delivered a tape recorder to Captain Fritz myself, but unfortunately I was a bit young and didn't get out of my baby crib too much back in '63. Sorry (again).

But why on Earth would you think Marrion Baker and Roy Truly were lying about seeing Oswald on the second floor? (Or do you think they were?)

Plus, I find it very interesting to see the conspiracy theorists doubting the legitimacy of the Baker/Truly/Oswald 2nd-floor encounter....because most of the time the CTers enjoy utilizing that encounter to try and verify their inaccurate belief that Oswald couldn't have been the sixth-floor assassin. I.E., Oswald couldn't [possibly have travelled down those four flights of stairs so fast. Ergo, he must be innocent.

Which way do the CTers want to go with it? ~shrug~

Just as I thought, Dave, YOU GOT NOTHIN'!

As usual.

[Robert Prudhomme]

I like it when Truly is asked if Oswald could have fired the shots and got to where he met Baker and Truly in time, less than two minutes, and Truly says "if he was fast. The roof is low and the stairs have few steps," so the low roof and few steps worked in Oswald's favor. Boy was he lucky the roof was low and there were so few steps.

As if Roy Truly's opinion on this point makes any difference whatsoever. We know for a fact that a human being (with two working legs) can definitely get from the sixth-floor sniper's perch down to the second-floor lunchroom in less than 80 seconds -- and that time was achieved by Secret Service agent John J. Howlett while not even running or trotting or walking very fast. Howlett did it in just 78 seconds while walking at a "normal walking pace" [WR; Page 152]. And "Howlett was not short winded at the end of either test run" [WR; Pg. 152].

I wonder why so many conspiracy believers just totally ignore the Howlett test runs that are detailed on Page 152 of the Warren Commission Report? I suppose everything that's written on that page is nothing but a great-big lie too. Is that what the CTers believe?

DVP's JFK Archives / Reconstructing The Steps Of A Presidential Assassin

How long did it take Oswald to wipe the fingerprints off the rifle and the three spent cartridges?

[William Kelly]

I like it when Truly is asked if Oswald could have fired the shots and got to where he met Baker and Truly in time, less than two minutes, and Truly says "if he was fast. The roof is low and the stairs have few steps," so the low roof and few steps worked in Oswald's favor. Boy was he lucky the roof was low and there were so few steps.

As if Roy Truly's opinion on this point makes any difference whatsoever. We know for a fact that a human being (with two working legs) can definitely get from the sixth-floor sniper's perch down to the second-floor lunchroom in less than 80 seconds -- and that time was achieved by Secret Service agent John J. Howlett while not even running or trotting or walking very fast. Howlett did it in just 78 seconds while walking at a "normal walking pace" [WR; Page 152]. And "Howlett was not short winded at the end of either test run" [WR; Pg. 152].

I wonder why so many conspiracy believers just totally ignore the Howlett test runs that are detailed on Page 152 of the Warren Commission Report? I suppose everything that's written on that page is nothing but a great-big lie too. Is that what the CTers believe?

DVP's JFK Archives / Reconstructing The Steps Of A Presidential Assassin

But Dave, Truly's opinion does make a difference, he's the one who identified Oswald and didn't consider him suspect.

Sure, i admit that Oswald could have gone the distance - from the Sixth Floor Sniper's nest to the second floor lunchroom in time, but that doesn't prove he did it, and in fact, other points of evidence indicate he didn't go through that door to get his coke, - or Truly would have seen him, and Baker, behind Truly only saw him through the window - a fleeting glimpse of the head of a man walking by - as Oswald entered the room from the offices - and the steps to the first floor, where he was last seen by others.

The evidence that indicates Oswald wasn't the Sixth Floor Sniper include the fact that people out on the street saw a man on the Sixth Floor standing with a rifle in a Port Arms position at 12:15 when Oswald was last seen on the first floor - who was that guy if it wasn't Oswald? And those who saw the Sixth Floor Sniper described him as wearing a white shirt - Oswald wore a brown one, and the man with the rifle had a bald spot on the top of his head, a very distinctive mark that includes a lot of men (including Lovelady and the guy in the brown jacket in the back of the TSBD after the shooting) but not Oswald. When Oswald returned from the Walker shooting Marina said he was hyper, breathing heavy, sweating and excited, and that was hours later. And we are to believe that two minutes after killing JFK and running down eight flights and four floors of steps and got behind that lunchroom door before Truly could see him and then backed up to get Baker's attention but when confronted is cool, calm and collected as if he had just strolled in to get a coke after eating lunch? Then while Baker and Truly were with Oswald, Mrs. Mooneyham, the court clerk from across the street sees a man in the Sniper's Nest moving boxes around, and the Dillard/J photo prove they were moved around after the Sniper had left the scene. If Oswald was the sniper, who was he?

No Dave, just because you can run from the Sixth Floor Sniper's Nest to the Second Floor Lunchroom in a minute and a half doesn't mean Oswald did it, it only means he could have done it, if he wasn't on the first floor at the time and heading up to the second floor to get a coke.

Do you really think that after killing the president, the murderer would stop for a coke? Escape in the Getaway Bus? Give up his Getaway Cab to an old lady?

I don't know if Lee Harvey Oswald shot at Walker or killed Tippit, but I know he wasn't the Sixth Floor Sniper.

And I don't know who the Sixth Floor Sniper was but I suspect he too was an employee of the TSBD or a cop and knew that there was no hurry to leave the scene, as he wouldn't be considered a suspect since Ozzie the Rabbit had been set loose and everyone would follow him.

Edited September 27, 2013 by William Kelly