Oswald's Coke

[Robert Prudhomme]

Awww, he left. I hope I didn't hurt his feelings.

[William Kelly]

David VP has nothing but non sequitors and circular arguments.

For example....?

Is believing the evidence to be authentic in the JFK and Tippit murder cases really something I should be ashamed of?

And let's face facts, Ken -- if the evidence is authentic, then Oswald's guilty.

No Dave, you cut out his primary point - you call everyone a Conspiracy Theorist and think all conspiracy theorists think alike, but that is clearly not true, so stop doing it. Not all conspiracies are equal, and you think it convenient to lump everyone into that basket - and try to pin that label on me.

Unlike a Lone Nut advocate who is a true believer in the guilt of Lee Harvey Oswald alone in shooting and killing JFK, Conspiracy theorists also know who killed JFK and just as the Lone Nutters lay out only the evidence that implicates Oswald and ignore exculpatory evidence, Conspiracy theorists pin the blame for the assassination on LBJ or the CIA or the Mafia or the Cubans or KGB or the Jews.

I disagree with both camps and think that the best approach is to consider the assassination of President Kennedy a murder, an unsolved homicide, and I try to identify and develop new evidence - documents, records and witnesses that we haven't heard from before, and dig into the case as a new, trained crime scene investigator would.

Now if you want to join me in a "careful and sober" analysis of the evidence, as Reitzes puts it, then you are welcome to come along for the ride, and your input welcome, but if your going to just badmouth conspiracy theorists and label and call people names just because you disagree with them, you can lay off.

Back to Oswald's coke, what are the possibilities as to what became of it?

Oswald drank it and threw it away before he left the TSBD, though this possibility is slim because the building was search thoroughly, and they probably would have found it if he threw it in the trash can, and it would have been placed into evidence.

Oswald could have still had it in his hands when he was standing in the first floor by the door and the reporters came running in and he directed them to a phone.

Oswald could have left the TSBD with the coke in his hand, either out the front door - and past Brennan - who should have been still standing there - saying that he could ID the sniper again if he saw him - and he didn't recognize Oswald leaving, though he did recognize the black guys from the fifth floor.

If Oswald had it when he walked out the building, he must have discarded it while walking down Elm Street.

Now there was a guy from the TSBD - I think he was on the floor crew who walked a half block down Elm and was there talking with a friend at a car parking lot. That friend should have been questioned, and the co-worker from the TSBD walking back to work should have crossed paths with Oswald going in the other direction.

But the coke bottle should have been discarded somewhere along the line, and it would be a clue as to where Oswald was at that point in time.

And did I mention that the black couple on the bench were drinking a Strawberry Nehi - and the broken bottle and puddle by the bench was filmed by Couch and photographed by another newsman (I think they might have thought it was blood).

[David Von Pein]

But the coke bottle should have been discarded somewhere along the line, and it would be a clue as to where Oswald was at that point in time.

But why do you need another clue as to Oswald's whereabouts at that point in time (i.e., from 12:32 to approximately 12:40)? Even without the Coke bottle, we KNOW Oswald walked east on Elm for several blocks, and we know he boarded McWatters' bus at about 12:40. This is the proof of that fact:

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I guess having the Coke bottle with Oswald's prints on it would be nice (with maybe a discarded Carcano bullet or two inside the empty bottle, for good measure ), but I cannot see how it would provide very much additional information with which to solve the crime.

And did I mention that the black couple on the bench were drinking a Strawberry Nehi - and the broken bottle and puddle by the bench was filmed by Couch and photographed by another newsman (I think they might have thought it was blood).

Well, as I've mentioned numerous times previously, there were many witnesses who never came forward and never gave testimony. So what?

And what about the two men on the steps leading up to the Grassy Knoll (the guys who were standing next to Emmett Hudson)? AFAIK, neither of those men has been identified. And they were practically in the line of fire (if there had been a gunman right behind them on the Knoll behind the fence, as most conspiracists believe). Why aren't you raising heck about the fact these guys never came forward?

Edited September 28, 2013 by David Von Pein

[William Kelly]

Well Dave,

Don't have to raise heck, just investigate properly, what the Dallas police and FBI should have done in the first place.

And you almost got out of that post without speculating on what Conspiracists think.

Dave, I repeat, please don't tell us what you think idiot conspiracits believe, as I am not interested.

Am Just wondering what happened to some key pieces of evidence, but it appears that much of the key evidence went the way of the coke bottle.

As for the black couple and the two men on the knoll who were not identified and haven't come forward, we have a few other witnesses who have never come forward and that means there are still witnesses out there who have yet to be properly interviewed.

In fact I have a list of over 45 such witnesses who we have identified and located and are attempting to interview, and it would be totally cool to get the names and establish the identities of the two guys on the knoll.

We have contacted a number of people who have met a women on the knoll on anniversaries who claims to have been the one who dropped the Strawberry Nehi - bottle that Zapruder's secretary saw and heard break, and she said her and her brother knew Emmett Hudson, the groundskeeper of the park area who is in the film-photo you posted above.

Which one of the three is Hudson?

Edited September 28, 2013 by William Kelly

[David Von Pein]

Which one of the three is Hudson?

I think Hudson is the man in the middle (the one who never moves a muscle in this clip from Marie Muchmore's film)....

Edited September 28, 2013 by David Von Pein

[William Kelly]

Which one of the three is Hudson?

I think Hudson is the man in the middle (the one who never moves a muscle in this clip from Marie Muchmore's film)....

Yea, I concur, he doesn't bat an eye when the other two guys seem pretty startled and the one guy's body language tell you he's thinking its time to get while the getten's good. The other guys are dressed too swanky to be the groundskeeper. I think Hudson testified, and I wonder if he mentions the black couple on the bench.

While I've seen pictures (I think it Couch) of the bench, I can't seem to place it exactly on the Knoll. Is the back of the bench facing west - towards the picket fence, or north facing the street?

I also wonder if Hudson is still alive or if we can come up with an obit for him?

Dave, you're pretty good at answering questions. It's much appreciated.

And I also appreciate Ken Davies participating in this thead, as a lawyer, I would think he would know about how to identify evidence and its value.

BK

[Sean Murphy]

We have contacted a number of people who have met a women on the knoll on anniversaries who claims to have been the one who dropped the Strawberry Nehi - bottle that Zapruder's secretary saw and heard break, and she said her and her brother knew Emmett Hudson, the groundskeeper of the park area who is in the film-photo you posted above.

Bill,

That's *very* interesting. Do you know if the lady is saying that she was in the company of her brother in Dealey Plaza that day? And does she mention that she had her baby with her?

Thanks,

Sean

[David Von Pein]

EMMETT J. HUDSON'S 11/22/63 AFFIDAVIT:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-um5UNKllF_w/Tvw3OwlYoQI/AAAAAAAABtk/sFZySlnOkZ8/s1200-h/Emmett-Hudson-Affidavit.gif

HUDSON'S 1964 WC TESTIMONY (starting at 7 H 558):

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/html/WC_Vol7_0283b.htm

Evidently, Mr. Hudson was totally oblivious to (or just didn't remember seeing) the other man who was standing right beside him when the shooting occurred. Because Hudson doesn't mention a third person on the steps at all. ~shrug~

I wonder if that means we've got room for another theory here?---

The Muchmore Film is a fake! A third man on the steps has been added in to

the film! Details at 11!!

Also:

Here's the picture of the bench in Dealey Plaza. This comes from Robin Unger's JFK Gallery:

Edited September 28, 2013 by David Von Pein

[William Kelly]

We have contacted a number of people who have met a women on the knoll on anniversaries who claims to have been the one who dropped the Strawberry Nehi - bottle that Zapruder's secretary saw and heard break, and she said her and her brother knew Emmett Hudson, the groundskeeper of the park area who is in the film-photo you posted above.

Bill,

That's *very* interesting. Do you know if the lady is saying that she was in the company of her brother in Dealey Plaza that day? And does she mention that she had her baby with her?

Thanks,

Sean

Hi Sean, Yes, she said she was with her brother at the time, and they were eating lunch - take out burgers and Strawberry Nihi - (am i spelling that right?), sitting on a bench on the Grassy Knoll, and they knew the groundskeeper - and when the shooting started they got up, and she looked and saw a policeman with a rifle behind the fence, and they ran north away from the street. She also said that a few days her and her brother tried to report what they saw to the DPD but they were told not to bother. Her brother has since passed away she said.

And while some people mention a women with a baby, she is not that person.

I still would like to know exactly where the park bench she was sitting on was located.

Thanks,

BK

[Sean Murphy]

We have contacted a number of people who have met a women on the knoll on anniversaries who claims to have been the one who dropped the Strawberry Nehi - bottle that Zapruder's secretary saw and heard break, and she said her and her brother knew Emmett Hudson, the groundskeeper of the park area who is in the film-photo you posted above.

Bill,

That's *very* interesting. Do you know if the lady is saying that she was in the company of her brother in Dealey Plaza that day? And does she mention that she had her baby with her?

Thanks,

Sean

Hi Sean, Yes, she said she was with her brother at the time, and they were eating lunch - take out burgers and Strawberry Nihi - (am i spelling that right?), sitting on a bench on the Grassy Knoll, and they knew the groundskeeper - and when the shooting started they got up, and she looked and saw a policeman with a rifle behind the fence, and they ran north away from the street. She also said that a few days her and her brother tried to report what they saw to the DPD but they were told not to bother. Her brother has since passed away she said.

And while some people mention a women with a baby, she is not that person.

I still would like to know exactly where the park bench she was sitting on was located.

Thanks,

BK

Thanks for the extra information, Bill.

It would be terrific if this woman's claim could be authenticated and full details taken from her on the record: might lay to rest the Black Dog Man thing once and for all.

Sean

[Robert Prudhomme]

We have contacted a number of people who have met a women on the knoll on anniversaries who claims to have been the one who dropped the Strawberry Nehi - bottle that Zapruder's secretary saw and heard break, and she said her and her brother knew Emmett Hudson, the groundskeeper of the park area who is in the film-photo you posted above.

Bill,

That's *very* interesting. Do you know if the lady is saying that she was in the company of her brother in Dealey Plaza that day? And does she mention that she had her baby with her?

Thanks,

Sean

Hi Sean, Yes, she said she was with her brother at the time, and they were eating lunch - take out burgers and Strawberry Nihi - (am i spelling that right?), sitting on a bench on the Grassy Knoll, and they knew the groundskeeper - and when the shooting started they got up, and she looked and saw a policeman with a rifle behind the fence, and they ran north away from the street. She also said that a few days her and her brother tried to report what they saw to the DPD but they were told not to bother. Her brother has since passed away she said.

And while some people mention a women with a baby, she is not that person.

I still would like to know exactly where the park bench she was sitting on was located.

Thanks,

BK

Wow, so the Badgeman theory might not be so farfetched after all. I'm surprised they had the courage to report this to the DPD. Of course, it didn't take them long to catch on that reporting it a second time or to the FBI or Secret Service probably wouldn't be such a great idea.

Imagine the fear they lived with all those yeas.

[William Kelly]

EMMETT J. HUDSON'S 11/22/63 AFFIDAVIT:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-um5UNKllF_w/Tvw3OwlYoQI/AAAAAAAABtk/sFZySlnOkZ8/s1200-h/Emmett-Hudson-Affidavit.gif

HUDSON'S 1964 WC TESTIMONY (starting at 7 H 558):

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/html/WC_Vol7_0283b.htm

Evidently, Mr. Hudson was totally oblivious to (or just didn't remember seeing) the other man who was standing right beside him when the shooting occurred. Because Hudson doesn't mention a third person on the steps at all. ~shrug~

I wonder if that means we've got room for another theory here?---

The Muchmore Film is a fake! A third man on the steps has been added in to

the film! Details at 11!!

Also:

Here's the picture of the bench in Dealey Plaza. This comes from Robin Unger's JFK Gallery:

Thanks David, I can see how the bench clearly faces all the action, so they must have seen something that truly frightened them. The women also said there was a young man in a hoody with his hands in the pockets who walked past and then ran away.

Here again, we have cops identifying and handling evidence that should have been kept but no longer exists. (Thanks Robin)

Are there any photos showing the black couple, even in the background?

And is Hudson still alive? If the black couple knew them he could tell us more about them.

BK

Edited September 29, 2013 by William Kelly

[David Von Pein]

Thanks David, I can see how the bench clearly faces all the action, so they must have seen something that truly frightened them.

Yeah. Maybe it was the sight of this that frightened them. You think? .....

[Ken Davies]

What are the distances from the bench to the picket fence,grassy knoll, and the limo?

[William Kelly]

What are the distances from the bench to the picket fence,grassy knoll, and the limo?

Yea, I would like to see a schematic drawing of Dealey Plaza that includes the park bench the black couple was sitting on.

BK