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Jim Hargrove

John Armstrong blasts the mail order rifle “evidence”

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I don't necessarily disagree, DVP. My biggest stumbling blocks are:

1. LHO himself, whose background is so odd and mysterious and so full of contradictions and who simply doesn't seem to me like a Lone Nut assassin in the making. I have studied LHO pretty intensively, and I have a hard time picturing this guy just taking it upon himself to assassinate JFK. Of course, the news is full of people who do hideous, seemingly out of character things that leave everyone who knew them baffled. But I don't see anything in LHO's background to suggest or predict that he was an assassin in the making. If we knew to a certainty that he had shot at General Walker, my willingness to accept the Lone Nut explanation would increase considerably - but this seems to me to be one of the weakest of the claims about LHO. Even if he did, Walker was pretty much the antithesis of JFK, and I have a really hard time picturing LHO as an indiscriminate assassin who was willing to kill anyone just to achieve notoriety.

2. The fact that the Bay of Pigs fiasco did generate so much rage on the part of the rabid anti-Castro forces who had trained for it, and their CIA trainers and handlers, that I have no difficulty picturing them taking their revenge in the form of a brutal assassination.

3. The sheer amount of weird stuff, including the McKeown and Odio incidents (but many others as well), that occurred in the months leading up to the assassination. A fair portion of this, I'll have to admit, I learned for the first time in - GASP! - Harvey and Lee (but also Walt Brown's chronology, Gaeton Fonzi's book, and the Internet). There is just so much of it, pointing in the direction of rabid anti-Castro exiles and CIA officials like David Atlee Phillips, that I don't believe it can simply be ignored. To completely ignore it would, to me, be as intellectually dishonest as the wackiest of the conspiracy theories.

So in a nutshell, my equation for a conspiracy as my working hypothesis is VERY UNLIKELY ASSASSIN WITH VERY UNLIKELY WEAPON + GROUP WITH THE ABILITY, MEANS AND MOTIVE + AN AWFUL LOT OF HARD-TO-EXPLAIN EVIDENCE = PROBABLE TIGHT, FOCUSED CONSPIRACY. All three of my points above can be challenged and debated, of course, and I don't completely discount the Lone Nut theory.

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Lance, how can you have ANY doubt whatever about Oswald's involvement in the Walker shooting with CE#1 staring at you? Marina found this note on Lee's desk (with their P.O. Box key on top of it) on the night of the Walker shooting when Lee was away from home all evening. Lee then came home, nervous and pale, late that night. ....

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/html/WH_Vol16_0013a.htm

What do you think the above note was referring to if not the Walker murder attempt?

Edited by David Von Pein

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Oh, brother! Even the HSCA refused to believe Marina's tales about the Walker shooting!

Fourteen years after the assassination the HSCA wanted to interview Marina.

Before she agreed to the interview Marina insisted on a grant of immunity.VICTORS-08

Committee members soon realized, like the Warren Commission had in 1964, that

Marina's testimony was full of lies and contradictory statements. The HSCA conducted

a detailed study of Marina's testimony regarding the Walker shooting and wrote, "When

combined with the other testimony linking Oswald to the shooting (whose testimony has

all the weight of a handful of chicken feathers), we regretfully refuse to accept the judgment

of the Commission in regard to the Walker shooting, hoping that its prides and preju­-

dices were a result of error and not expedience."VICTORS-09

Harvey and Lee, p. 978

Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

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Oh, brother! Even the HSCA refused to believe Marina's tales about the Walker shooting!

Good boy, Jim. Just totally ignore the NOTE, which wasn't written by MARINA. It was written by LEE Oswald himself!

Tell us, Jim, why did Lee write that letter to Marina? Or do you want to pretend that CE1 is a fake and a fraud too? It's a letter which indicates LHO was about to go out and do something that was so bad that Lee thought he might very well end up dead or in the slammer.

Any idea what that activity on April 10, 1963, might have been?

Need any help?

MARINA OSWALD HSCA AUDIO EXCERPT

Also -- notice any similarity here?:

CE573+&+CE399+Comparison.jpg

Edited by David Von Pein

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Ah…. Thanks for bringing this up, David!

Let's take a look at that note.

WH_Vol16_0013a.jpg

Do you REALLY think this Russian note was written by a native born American who spent a couple of years in Russia? Really??

This note was allegedly “found” by the ever helpful Ruth Paine on Nov. 30, a week after Dallas police had repeatedly searched her home (Nov. 22-23) and had somehow managed to miss it. Throughout the remainder of 1963 and much of the following year, Mrs. Paine would continue to “find” items that allegedly belonged to “Oswald,” every single one of them instrumental in framing him, and every one of them “missed” by Dallas police.

The assassination of JFK was an intelligence operation, using many of the normal tricks of the trade.

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Also -- notice any similarity here?:

CE573+&+CE399+Comparison.jpg

I'd like to thank Mr. Von Pein for his help in discovering so many neat things in this thread…

I hope he won't be overly modest, but he has discovered another Magic Bullet!

The bullet Mr. Von Pein so proudly waves about believing that it was used by “Oswald” to shoot at Edwin Walker, is clearly a copper jacketed bullet.

But as you can see in the original report filed by Dallas police, it was a steel-jacketed bullet dug out of Mr. Walker's house. Somehow, perhaps while at the National Archives, it transformed itself into a copper jacketed bullet!

Walker_Report.jpg

Magic rifles, magic money orders, magic deposit slips… and now yet another magic bullet! Do you suppose there is something fishy about all this so-called rifle evidence? Nah... it's just magic!

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Also -- notice any similarity here?:

CE573+&+CE399+Comparison.jpg

I'd like to thank Mr. Von Pein for his help in discovering so many neat things in this thread…

I hope he won't be overly modest, but he has discovered another Magic Bullet!

The bullet Mr. Von Pein so proudly waves about believing that it was used by “Oswald” to shoot at Edwin Walker, is clearly a copper jacketed bullet.

But as you can see in the original report filed by Dallas police, it was a steel-jacketed bullet dug out of Mr. Walker's house. Somehow, perhaps while at the National Archives, it transformed itself into a copper jacketed bullet!

Magic rifles, magic money orders, magic deposit slips… and now yet another magic bullet! Do you suppose there is something fishy about all this so-called rifle evidence? Nah... it's just magic!

Doh!

LOL :D

Edited by Sandy Larsen

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Thanks, Jim H., for showing us all your true "Everything's Been Faked" colors. I'm loving it!

BTW, let's hear what the FBI's Bob Frazier had to say about the bullet types....

MR. EISENBERG -- "Can you think of any reason why someone might have
called this [CE573] a steel-jacketed bullet?"

MR. FRAZIER -- "No, sir; except that some individuals commonly refer
to rifle bullets as steel-jacketed bullets, when they actually in fact
just have a copper-alloy jacket."

------------

Frazier was just lying through his teeth there, right Jim?

Edited by David Von Pein

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That's right... endless excuses.

Dallas cops didn't know the difference between steel and copper jacketed bullets. Neither did General Walker, apparently, who said the bullet in evidence wasn't the bullet dug out of his house.

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Do you REALLY think this Russian note [CE1] was written by a native born American who spent a couple of years in Russia? Really??

There's a ton of LHO's correspondence written in the Russian language in the Warren Commission volumes.

And all of it (AFAIK) was determined by the handwriting experts to be in Lee Harvey Oswald's writing.

Including Oswald's Diary (CE24). Do you think it's ALL phony and fake?

Edited by David Von Pein

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That's right... endless excuses.

Dallas cops didn't know the difference between steel and copper jacketed bullets. Neither did General Walker, apparently, who said the bullet in evidence wasn't the bullet dug out of his house.

So let me get this straight (from your POV), Jim....

You think CE573 is a fake and a fraud (naturally).

And you also believe that somebody was trying to frame Lee H. Oswald for the Walker shooting at the same time "somebody" placed CE573 into the evidence pile....even though we know that CE573 was banged up too much to be linked conclusively to the patsy's gun.

Right, Jim?

So, here's the question I have for you....

If the cops (or whoever) were wanting to frame LHO for the Walker shooting, why on Earth would they plant into evidence an essentially useless bullet that can never be tied specifically to Carcano Rifle C2766?

Were the plotters completely void of all brain cells? Or did they just want to keep busy in late November after the JFK assassination stuff quieted down a bit?

Or did they just simply screw up (again)---like they did when they left a Mauser on the sixth floor too, even though their patsy never owned one of those?

Your call.

In short (and in truth, IMO) --- The fact that CE573 cannot be linked to any specific rifle is virtual proof, right there, that it was not "planted" into the evidence pile. Because only a total idiot would want to do something so stupid. Although, yes, CE573 looks exactly like CE399 in many respects. No doubt about it. But if you're going to go to the trouble of PLANTING a bullet to frame a particular person, you're surely going to make sure that that bullet can be tied exclusively to the patsy's gun. Wouldn't you agree, Jim Hargrove?

Edited by David Von Pein

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Dear Mr. Von Pein,

It's truly sad that that your evidence is so consistently awful. If it makes you feel any better, by all means please continue to blame me for the mountain of bs you feel compelled to say doesn't stink.

If it will lift your spirits a bit, I'll even confess….

I (and a few of my chums) created all the bogus evidence against “Lee Harvey Oswald” in 1963 and 1964 from our world headquarters at Yorktown School in New York. We're really sorry it wasn't better but, in our defense, we were just kids! We didn't know that the Internet was just a few decades away, or that it would allow common folks like most of us here to pass around the “evidence” and have a good hard look for ourselves.

We really thought it would be just the government's hired hands who would see this stuff, and we didn't know it actually had to be believable under reasonable scrutiny! And so, on behalf of myself and my classmates, we sincerely apologize for all the heartache we have caused you.

Sincerely,

Jim

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There's a ton of LHO's correspondence written in the Russian language in the Warren Commission volumes.

And all of it (AFAIK) was determined by the handwriting experts to be in Lee Harvey Oswald's writing.

Including Oswald's Diary (CE24). Do you think it's ALL phony and fake?

No, but I sure think that undated, unsigned note, found by Ruth Paine almost a week after her whole house had been repeatedly searched by the police, was a fraud!

Do you really think all those other documents in Russian were written by a native of the United States? Who's kidding who here?

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Thanks, Jim H., for showing us all your true "Everything's Been Faked" colors. I'm loving it!

Hey, Pal, I'm getting' sick of your “America Last” attitude! We're Number One!

We're Number One in war and peace, or at least in war. We can eat more hamburgers than all the rest of the world combined!

And if we want to create false evidence, no one can fake trainloads of it like we can! We're Number One! Quit your defeatist attitude and start thinking big, like a Real American!

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