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Tim Gratz

LHO Nothing But a Patsy?

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Oswald's U.S. intelligence background is obvious in that someone had to teach him the Russian language in a hurry. (The idea that he learned Russian so well from playing records in his Marine barracks, when he had time to do so, is ridiculous.) This would have logically been done at the Defense Language Institute in Monterrey CA, which is still the place where U.S. military and intelligence personnel go to learn a foreign language in a hurry. And indeed we know that he went there thanks to the WC executive session of 1/27/64, in which chief counsel Rankin refers to the WC's efforts "to find out what he (Oswald) studied at the Monterey School of the Army in the way of languages." What they found out (as if they couldn't guess) somehow did not find its way into the WC Report.

Ron

_____________________________

Ron,

I was just about to write the same thing to Al, re LHO's "lack of intelligence."

The Russian language is extremely difficult. I thought everyone was in agreement that he had to have learned this at the DLI in Monterrey CA.

Dawn

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I can tell from the comments on the forum that nobody here

has read Harvey&Lee, John Armstrong's massive 12-year study

of the TWO OSWALDS.

Jack :blink:

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I can tell from the comments on the forum that nobody here

has read Harvey&Lee, John Armstrong's massive 12-year study

of the TWO OSWALDS.

Jack :blink:

I designed the dustjacket for John. Here are the two endflaps.

Jack

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I can tell from the comments on the forum that nobody here

has read Harvey&Lee, John Armstrong's massive 12-year study

of the TWO OSWALDS.

Jack :blink:

I designed the dustjacket for John. Here are the two endflaps.

Jack

Here is the back of the dustjacket.

Jack

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Jack,

I have Armstrong's book and hope to find time to read it before long. But whether there were two Oswalds or one, the Russian-speaking Oswald has to be explained, and the explanation is that he was in U.S. intelligence, either as someone who had a Russian-speaking background (per Armstrong's theory) or was taught Russian by the U.S. military.

I just checked the book's index and found nothing on Monterey CA, the language school, or Russian language. Does Armstrong offer an explanation of why the Russian-speaking Oswald would need to go to the Monterey school, as the WC's Rankin indicates that he did?

Ron

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IMO,

As far as his level of intelligence. Note how well he comes off in a rehearsed fashion in interviews and at the American Embassy in Moscow and then falls apart when he has to adlib.

Everyone who interrogated Oswald over the weekend of 11/22 - 11/24 came away with the nagging suspicion that Oswald had been trained in interrogation techniques.

Steve Thomas

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IMO,

As far as his level of intelligence. Note how well he comes off in a rehearsed fashion in interviews and at the American Embassy in Moscow and then falls apart when he has to adlib.

Everyone who interrogated Oswald over the weekend of 11/22 - 11/24 came away with the nagging suspicion that Oswald had been trained in interrogation techniques.

Steve Thomas

As far as judging his intelligence on his ability to become fluent in Russian from Monteray Linguistics School, one has nothing to do with the other IMO. I have a nephew who is a math genius and could not flip burgers at a McDonalds. I was fluent in Spanish at one time and am no way a rocket scientist.

In regards to his being trained in interrogation techniques, they were referring to his ability to shut down instead of being lulled into talking about topics he did not want to open up.

Al

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IMO,

As far as his level of intelligence. Note how well he comes off in a rehearsed fashion in interviews and at the American Embassy in Moscow and then falls apart when he has to adlib.

I also think this is a bit unfair, Al. Oswald's IQ was something like 118, which puts him in the top 20%. He was also known as a voracious reader. DeMohrenschildt, among others, was impressed by him. By all accounts, Oswald handled himself quite well during his TV and radio interviews. The guy was smart, and a cool customer, and was by no means the loser the Warren Commission made him out to be. While none of this makes him innocent, one can't help but think such a guy would have a better escape plan than running around in circles after the assassination.

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IMO,

As far as his level of intelligence. Note how well he comes off in a rehearsed fashion in interviews and at the American Embassy in Moscow and then falls apart when he has to adlib.

I also think this is a bit unfair, Al. Oswald's IQ was something like 118, which puts him in the top 20%. He was also known as a voracious reader. DeMohrenschildt, among others, was impressed by him. By all accounts, Oswald handled himself quite well during his TV and radio interviews. The guy was smart, and a cool customer, and was by no means the loser the Warren Commission made him out to be. While none of this makes him innocent, one can't help but think such a guy would have a better escape plan than running around in circles after the assassination.

For what it's worth, IMO you are 100% correct in this analysis of Oswald's intelligence, Pat.

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Anyone who learns to speak and write a new language within a few years time, that also requires learning a new alphabet and completely new sounds is probably smarter than your average Joe.

I too, must join the group that considers LHO smarter than average. My opinion is based on what LHO is known to have said and known to have done. His actions on and around 11/22/63 however, do seem quite unusual and irrational compared to his typical behavior. Perhaps his poor motivation at work can be explained by his true professional motivations being elsewhere whilst employed as a laborer. I find it impossible to believe that a man interested in foreign languages, photography, literature and politics is satisifed with a job requiring him to fill book orders in a warehouse, nor do I believe that a man with those interests is someone of inferior intellect. :ph34r:

Edited by Antti Hynonen

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Anyone who learns to speak and write a new language within a few years time, that also requires learning a new alphabet and completely new sounds is probably smarter than your average Joe.

I too, must join the group that considers LHO smarter than average. My opinion is based on what LHO is known to have said and known to have done. His actions on and around 11/22/63 however, do seem quite unusual and irrational compared to his typical behavior. Perhaps his poor motivation at work can be explained by his true professional motivations being elsewhere whilst employed as a laborer. I find it impossible to believe that a man interested in foreign languages, photography, literature and politics is satisifed with a job requiring him to fill book orders in a warehouse, nor do I believe that a man with those interests is someone of inferior intellect. :ph34r:

Very perceptive, IMO. It is also possible (but probably not likely) that LHO was getting involved in some of his unusual political activities merely because he wanted to alleviate the ennui of his work and married life. If that is the case, it still would allow for a clever conspirator to decide to use LHO as the patsy.

Another issue we might want to address here is how was LHO made a patsy? I think it is in Libra (fictional but good book) that DeLillo suggests LHO was told he was going to participate in an unsuccessful attempt on JFK's life. Does anyone think such a scenario possible?

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I believe everyone who is responding here to me being unfare to Oswald's intelligence level is misunderstanding what I mean by this. Allow me to clarify. There are many who have high IQ's and are considered "booksmart" but cannot apply what they have learned.

Oswald's actions in the American Embassy in Moscow was described as "rehearsed". On the N.O. radio broadcast, he stated that he was under the protection of the US gov't while in the Soviet Union and then quickly corrected himself. In N.O., he ran his so-called N.O. branch of the FPCC out of an office in the same building as Guy Bannister's detective agency and was seen frequently in Bannister's office, while Bannister was openly anti-Castro.

If it was Oswald in Mexico City, he seemed panicked on the transcribed recordings when they would not allow him an exit visa.

We could go on and on. I just cannot accept that he was a seasoned or reliable operative. He may have been well-versed in his assignments, but he was by no way seasoned and reliable to sell himself in them.

Al

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Antti,

Anyone who learns to speak and write a new language within a few years time, that also requires learning a new alphabet and completely new sounds is probably smarter than your average Joe.

There is the possibility that one of the Oswald's knew German too.

In the Dallas Police Archives, Box 9, Folder# 5, Item# 20,

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box9.htm

there is a property clerk's invoice for property seized from 1026 N. Beckley on November 23rd. In gif# 1, there is a listing for a package of Russian flash cards. Underneath that is a listing for 1 package of German phrase - sentence flash cards.

From the affidavit of Billy Joe Lord, Oswald's cabinmate on the trip aboard the S.S. Marion Lykes

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/lord.htm

"Oswald spent a great deal of his time during the trip on the deck. I do not recall him doing any reading. I do recall, however, that there was a radio speaker which received programs from Europe and that Oswald and Colonel Church seemed to understand a little bit of the foreign language that came over on the speaker. I thought it was German, but I am not sure."

Steve Thomas

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Great thread.

Oswald was an expendable low level intelligence asset.

If he wasn't a defector program for the joint agencies,

he sure looked like one and should have been watched.

His contacts with Embassies and Executives is obviously

coached or coerced counterintelligence material.

Thank you Nancy Eldreth for the letter from O. to Connally.

This is the product of a triple agent, a false man...

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Jack,

I have Armstrong's book and hope to find time to read it before long. But whether there were two Oswalds or one, the Russian-speaking Oswald has to be explained, and the explanation is that he was in U.S. intelligence, either as someone who had a Russian-speaking background (per Armstrong's theory) or was taught Russian by the U.S. military.

I just checked the book's index and found nothing on Monterey CA, the language school, or Russian language. Does Armstrong offer an explanation of why the Russian-speaking Oswald would need to go to the Monterey school, as the WC's Rankin indicates that he did?

Ron

Ron...Armstrong DOES NOT PRESENT A THEORY OF TWO OSWALDS. He only

presents factual evidence. The reader is forced by the facts to conclude that

Lee, the native American, LOANED HIS IDENTITY TO HARVEY, whose native

language was Russian. The Monterey mention may be a cover story. Harvey

did not learn Russian from Berlitz or Monterry. He learned it as a child from his

family.

Jack :ph34r:

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