J. D. Tippit: Was he part of the conspiracy?

[Owen Parsons]

I'd also like to thank Duke for his very informative posts. Particularly interesting for me was the stuff he posted awhile back about the Tippit autopsy material. I had been wondering if this would support Jack Tatum (the coup de grace witness) for a while, since no other witness had reported this.

Edited November 24, 2005 by Owen Parsons

[Duke Lane]

I'd also like to thank Duke for his very informative posts. Particularly interesting for me was the stuff he posted awhile back about the Tippit autopsy material. I had been wondering if this would support Jack Tatum (the coup de grace witness) for a while, since no other witness had reported this.

I will attempt, over the next few weeks, to find my Tippit autopsy information, and will post as much of it as I'm able. It does support the coup de grace description insofar as the head shot goes, though I cannot recall if it mentioned powder burns or anything of that sort (which wouldn't be absolutely necessary, I wouldn't think, if the shot were fired even from hip height).

[Duke Lane]

Various thoughts:

You may wish to check into the other three or so items which were also occurring, which if recalled correctly included a bank holdup, a fire, and I believe that it was a bomb at the YMCA.

Those persons who actually get away with such things are in the "business" of knowing what it takes.

Therefore, diversionary activities and tactics are an inherent part of any such plan.

1. Soft Drink Bottlers association meeting & RMN:-------Drain on Police resources & "overload" of City Management.

Beyond the possible "overload of City Management" due to a former US VP being in town, I don't see a bottler's convention as being any sort of "drain" on police resources. After all, Dallas was, is, and has long been a "convention city," and I have been involved with several of them in more recent years, presumably much larger than one whose relatively few attendees would be those handfuls of people who actually bottle Pepsi (or Coke or beer) around the country.

2. Various other activities which would further create further drain on Police capabilities: IE: Fire; Bank Holdup; Bomb (or bomb threat) at YMCA.*

*Somewhere in a box, I have the details of these activities. They specifically caught my eye due to the associations of LHO & Jack Ruby with the YMCA.

I'd be interested in seeing that info, but at this point I'm a tiny bit skeptical simply on account of the fact that, of the extant transcripts of DPD radio traffic, nobody was dispatched to them, while there yet remain several burglaries and other "petty" crimes that officers were directed to (and then told to ignore, or ignored on their own), up to and including a report that a couple of guys were filling their gas tank at a service station in west Oak Cliff with a rifle in the back of their car.

The "investigating" officer of that incident, incidentally, was R.C. Nelson, the other officer who was ordered into Oak Cliff along with Tippit, but who chose to ignore those orders ... and even informed dispatch that he was doing so as he was doing so! Nelson seemed to have been hell-bent upon getting to the Tippit scene, and was later misdirected ("suspect last seen heading north on Patton from 10th" or words to that very similar effect ... after LHO had been taken into custody!

3. Firecrackers along the parade route. As with "Pavlov's Dog" this inherently created a "conditioned" reflex to the reactions of SS Agents, as well as creating diversionary activities.

Um ... have you done this sort of thing before? Only kidding, but it certainly does make sense ... but was it done? I've never heard of it ....

4. That Jack Ruby reportedly made a statement to the effect of "watching the fireworks", would seem to indicate that he had some potential knowledge of this activity, even if he actually had no knowledge and/or idea as to it's purpose.

To paraphrase Ms Clairol, as she used to ask, "did he, or didn't he?" Got more info on this?

P.S. One really should recall that RMN had just been in Dallas, therefore, there are other potential reasons for current and/or ex-SS personnel to have been there, other than just those associated with JFK.

RMN kept, and utilized ex-/former FBI as well as SS personnel as his aides and assistants.

I therefore do not doubt that someone in the vicinity of the Stockade Fence could have been in possession of papers which identified them as being a SS Agent, without any direct connection to the Presidential Protection Detail of the US SS. After all, RMN was on a flight home!

One thing I'm not certain of; perhaps you can clarify it for me?

Ex-Presidents have received SS protection after leaving office for the rest of their lives until (and including) Bill Clinton. Now, they only get SS for a limited time, as I best recall. The question is what, if any, ex-Vice Presidents got or get afterh they leave office?

I agree that it's possible that, if ex-VPs got SS protection after leaving office, those agents were well-enough versed with SS procedure to have pulled off having been on-duty SS agents following the assassination. But the questions which arise, in addition to the above, are:

1) Were those SS agents (and who were they, anyway?) more loyal to their jobs or to RMN (or any other person they're protecting)?

2) Do they rotate their positions within the SS or stay with a sole protectee and, along the same lines, how much "say" does a protectee have in who protects him (or, someday, her)?

3) Even assuming a great loyalty to the protectee, can they be persuaded to accomodate the protectee's wishes, even if those include murder ... and moreover, murder of someone in an office that they are sworn to protect?

It would seem that whatever you might assume along these lines, it would have to include that anyone in such a position was acting upon their own initiative rather than being directed by anyone. or that whoever the "SS agent" was, was merely in a position to know enough to be able to pull it off.

[Thomas Graves]

P.S. One really should recall that RMN had just been in Dallas, therefore, there are other potential reasons for current and/or ex-SS personnel to have been there, other than just those associated with JFK.

RMN kept, and utilized ex-/former FBI as well as SS personnel as his aides and assistants.

I therefore do not doubt that someone in the vicinity of the Stockade Fence could have been in possession of papers which identified them as being a SS Agent, without any direct connection to the Presidential Protection Detail of the US SS.

After all, RMN was on a flight home!

______________________________________________________

Hey Thomas.

The excellent post above was Duke Lanes. I'm also looking forward to what he photographed - as I probably won't make Dallas again for awhile.

- lee

______________________________________________

Duke and Lee,

Sorry about the mixup. My bad.

Thomas

______________________________________________

Edited November 25, 2005 by Thomas Graves

[Duke Lane]

Hey Thomas.

The excellent post above was Duke Lanes. I'm also looking forward to what he photographed - as I probably won't make Dallas again for awhile.

- lee

Duke and Lee,

Sorry about the mixup. My bad.

Thomas

Thomas,

Somewhere deep within the foul, ugly depths of my being, I'm sure I can find some way to forgive you!!

Duke

[Duke Lane]

Hey Thomas.

The excellent post above was Duke Lanes. I'm also looking forward to what he photographed - as I probably won't make Dallas again for awhile.

- lee

Here ya go! This is a start of a 'virtual tour' of some of the "interesting" places around Dallas. I've already gotten the okay to do the inside of the Texas Theater this way once they have finished renovations; maybe, for whatever it might be worth, I'll do the inside of the Abundant Life Temple, although I'm not sure what would be valuable to have photos of, flat or spherical.

Click here to play the virtual tour. If you have pop-up blockers enabled, either disable them, or hold down your Ctrl key when you click the link. Java must also be enabled on your computer.

Some notes:

* None of the photos have anything annotated onto them, such as where the "sniper's nest" window is on the TSBD, or where Tippit was shot on the 10th St view.

* The spherical shot of Dealey Plaza has some people (actually, artifacts of people) edited out. This is because each photo consists of one overexposure and one underexposure, and with people moving their "ghosts" remain on the blended image, but they don't really look like real people.

* Harlandale is one very scary neighborhood!

* Photos were all taken on November 22, 2005.

I'll probably add more photos and spheres as time goes on (or allows).

[Tim Gratz]

Excellent photos! Thanks!

[Lee Forman]

Possibly a totally irrelevant question: Was Tippit's hat found at the scene of his shooting? In the car? No mention of it by the witnesses.

From Car 10 Where are you. Is it possible that Tippit was looking for his hat, which had somehow and for some reason [possibly unknown entirely to him] was used by the GK shooter - in order to create a cover and set-up the DPD as one of the many possible Patsies to the crime? If he didn't get it from Tippit, where did the GKS shooter acquire the hat? I thought it was a Railroad Detective hat - now I see I was incorrect. It appears to clearly follow the outline of a DPD Cop's hat. Could that be what Tippit was looking for?

I think I found Bull Pulte's contact info - I'm going to try to determine from him whether or not Andrews make, model and year car is known, or if Andrews is still around to ask.

- lee

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/car10.htm

This information is provided by Greg Lowrey by way of Bill Pulte. James A. Andrews worked for American National Life Insurance whose offices were located across the street from Austin’s Barbecue. Greg Lowrey was interviewing Andrews to get recollections of Roscoe White who worked out of the same office as Andrews. During the interview Andrews told Greg “Since you are interested in the assassination, let me tell you something that happened” and told the following story. James A. Andrew’s was returning to work at his office in Oak Cliff a little after 1:00 P.M. on 11/22/63. He was driving west on West 10th Street (about eight or nine blocks from where Tippit was shot minutes later, see map). Suddenly a police car also traveling west on West 10th Street came up from behind Andrews’ car, passed him and cut in front of Andrews’s car forcing him to stop. The police car pulled in front of Andrews’ car at an angle heading into the curb in order to stop him. The officer then jumped out of the patrol car motioned to Andrews to remain stopped, ran back to Andrews’ car, and looked in the space between the front seat and the back seat. Without saying a word the policeman went back to the patrol car and then drove off quickly. Andrews was perplexed by this strange behavior and looked at the officer’s nameplate, which read “Tippit” (Tippit was wearing his nameplate on 11/22/63. This is documented in a list of personal effects removed from his body at the time of death. Source: Dallas Municipal Archives) Andrews remarked that Tippit seemed to be very upset and agitated and was acting wild.

We know by the statements Louis Cortinas at the Top Ten Record Shop that Tippit was last seen running a stop sign and traveling east on Sunset Ave. The location of Andrews’ encounter with Tippit is approximately 2 blocks northwest of the record shop. Did this event happen before or after Tippit was seen at the record shop? Given Andrews’ statement that this happened a little after 1:00 P.M. let us use the 1:03 P.M. missed call as a benchmark. Since the only documented time that Tippit was away from his car radio was when he went into the record shop, the probability is high that James A. Andrews’ encounter with J.D. Tippit happened just moments after Tippit was seen at the record shop. Tippit could have gone east on Sunset then gone north on Madison or Zangs then taken a left onto West 10th Street and this would have put Tippit traveling in the proper direction to have ‘cut off’ Andrews’ car that was also traveling west on West 10th Street.

Why did Tippit choose Andrews’ car to stop? Why didn’t he pull over Andrews’ car using conventional police procedure by using red lights and siren and stopping to the rear of Andrews’ car? Why did Tippit ‘cut off’ Andrews car the way he did? Why didn’t Tippit speak to Andrews or give him any explanation for what was going on? Why was Tippit so upset and acting the way he did? If these questions could be answered it would be very helpful in determining what was going on in the last minutes of Tippit’s life. Exactly where Tippit went and for how long after his sighting at the record shop and after his encounter with James A. Andrews are still unknown.

[Duke Lane]

Well Nic,

What you said, sorta reminded me of something else....Here is another new interesting story in regard to Tippit. I'm sure some have heard about it, but it might be new to some. I first read about it in Walt Brown's, JFK/DPQ Publication and is also included in Livingstones new book.

...

For Reaseach Purposes Only!

A woman by the name of Mrs. Doris Holan, lived at 409 E Tenth Street, She lived upstairs directly across the street and her windows looked directly on Tippit's Patrol car and the murder scene....

Mrs Holan also noticed something else that had not previously, ever been reported. A second police car in the driveway, which went all the way back to the alley, moving forward slowly towards Tippit's car on Tenth. Near the police car she also saw a man in the driveway walking toward the street where Tippit was parked.

She went downstairs at once and over to Tippit. The man in the driveway continued to the street, walked in front of Tippit's patrol car, paused and looked down at Tippit's head, and retraced his path up the driveway. At the same time, the police car changed direction and backed up in the driveway to the alley running parallel to Tenth, behind the houses on 404 and 410.

In 1963, the driveway could be entered from the alley from the rear, as well as from Tenth. Because Tippit's car was parked in front of the Tenth Street entrance, the alley provided the only passage from the driveway for the driver of the police car.

Mrs. Holan's account of a second police car is supported by the comments of Sam Guinyard, who told Brownlow in 1970 that he saw a police car in the alley shortly after the police shooting. The man in the driveway was apparently also seen by others: a resident of the neighborhood, who wishes to remain anonymous, told Prof Pulte, in 1990, that he had heard about a man in the driveway who approached Tippit's car....

Some clarifications: unbeknownst to many people, myself included until just a couple of weeks ago, is that behind the houses on that block of 10th Street are ... other houses! That's right, there is one house on the lot facing 10th and accessed by 10th, and there are other houses facing and accessed by the alleyway (the sole exception in this immediate area being 400 E 10th)! The homes that are there right now are not new, but I don't know how old (20? 30? 40? 50? years old?? I'll attempt to verify this when I'm over that way next), and the driveways of the older homes do not go completely through, at least not anymore.

The neighborhood is undergoing a lot of renovation right now - very few older homes left on the 400 block - and I've got the name of the builder, so I will see what additional information I can gather on this.

More importantly, Tippit's car was not "in front of the [10th] Street entrance" as the driveway was to the east of the home. Recall Charlie Davis' testimony: "he was shot in front of the hedgerow between the house next door and the one he lives in." They don't plant hedgerows in driveways! That is as my memory serves: one of the contemporaneous photos showing the location would be a better record, but I do recall bushes rather than a driveway being beside the car.

Finally - and less importantly - the statement that "the man in the driveway was apparently also seen by others" is not supported by the comment "a resident of the neighborhood ... told Prof Pulte ... that he had heard about a man in the driveway who approached Tippit's car..." (my emphasis). We don't know the source of the story this anonymous person merely heard, and it could have been third- or fourth-hand originating with Mrs. Holan (if it was ever even true in 1963)!

FWIW, I have run across people around who feel it necessary, for some reason, to inject themselves into the story. Most recently it was a retired cop who was hanging out at Dealey Plaza this last November 22. His story was that, in 1963, he was an undercover cop investigating drug deals. He had, he said, long hair and a beard. He also said that he was "one of two officers" who handcuffed Oswald. His name is not referenced anywhere in the reports discussing Oswald's arrest, nor in any of the "theater" officers' testimonies, but (you'd think) that's because he was undercover and they wouldn't want him to somehow be identified, right? But has anyone ever seen a long-haired cop in any of the photographs taken in the theater, or do you suppose someone has artfully cropped him out to preserve his cover?

This is an observation, and not necessarily a reflection on Mrs. Holan.

[Duke Lane]

...

From Car 10 Where are you....

This information is provided by Greg Lowrey by way of Bill Pulte. James A. Andrews worked for American National Life Insurance whose offices were located across the street from Austin’s Barbecue. Greg Lowrey was interviewing Andrews to get recollections of Roscoe White who worked out of the same office as Andrews. During the interview Andrews told Greg “Since you are interested in the assassination, let me tell you something that happened” and told the following story. James A. Andrew’s was returning to work at his office in Oak Cliff a little after 1:00 P.M. on 11/22/63. He was driving west on West 10th Street (about eight or nine blocks from where Tippit was shot minutes later, see map). Suddenly a police car also traveling west on West 10th Street came up from behind Andrews’ car, passed him and cut in front of Andrews’s car forcing him to stop. The police car pulled in front of Andrews’ car at an angle heading into the curb in order to stop him. The officer then jumped out of the patrol car motioned to Andrews to remain stopped, ran back to Andrews’ car, and looked in the space between the front seat and the back seat. Without saying a word the policeman went back to the patrol car and then drove off quickly. Andrews was perplexed by this strange behavior and looked at the officer’s nameplate, which read “Tippit” (Tippit was wearing his nameplate on 11/22/63. This is documented in a list of personal effects removed from his body at the time of death. Source: Dallas Municipal Archives) Andrews remarked that Tippit seemed to be very upset and agitated and was acting wild.

We know by the statements Louis Cortinas at the Top Ten Record Shop that Tippit was last seen running a stop sign and traveling east on Sunset Ave. The location of Andrews’ encounter with Tippit is approximately 2 blocks northwest of the record shop. Did this event happen before or after Tippit was seen at the record shop? Given Andrews’ statement that this happened a little after 1:00 P.M. let us use the 1:03 P.M. missed call as a benchmark. Since the only documented time that Tippit was away from his car radio was when he went into the record shop, the probability is high that James A. Andrews’ encounter with J.D. Tippit happened just moments after Tippit was seen at the record shop. Tippit could have gone east on Sunset then gone north on Madison or Zangs then taken a left onto West 10th Street and this would have put Tippit traveling in the proper direction to have ‘cut off’ Andrews’ car that was also traveling west on West 10th Street.

Why did Tippit choose Andrews’ car to stop? Why didn’t he pull over Andrews’ car using conventional police procedure by using red lights and siren and stopping to the rear of Andrews’ car? Why did Tippit ‘cut off’ Andrews car the way he did? Why didn’t Tippit speak to Andrews or give him any explanation for what was going on? Why was Tippit so upset and acting the way he did? If these questions could be answered it would be very helpful in determining what was going on in the last minutes of Tippit’s life. Exactly where Tippit went and for how long after his sighting at the record shop and after his encounter with James A. Andrews are still unknown.

While Bill Drenas is a good buddy of mine and a very diligent researcher, I have difficulties with this report that he seems to accept so readily (see my post above: does it have anything to do with "injection?"). Here are some of them:

The above map shows the immediate area where all these events took place that Friday afternoon. The intersection of 10th and Patton can be seen near the upper right, and the Top Ten Record Shop is located just east of the southeast corner of the intersection of Jefferson and Bishop, on the south side of Jefferson.

By the Top Ten account, Tippit was parked on Bishop, drove across Jefferson and one block north, then turned right, going out of sight. You can see that Sunset "tees" at Beckley (that's the heavy-lined street going north-south immediately to the east of Zang(s) Blvd). You will also notice that the dividing line between "East" and "West" streets is Beckley as well, and that W 10th is the street running east-west immediately to the north of Sunset (sorry, the "10th W" doesn't appear on this portion of the map).

This means that Tippit took off eastward toward his "final" destination, then drove north somewhere along Sunset (or maybe at Zangs or Beckley), then sped westward away from his final destination, pulled Andrews over somewhere around or between Adams and Llewellyn, acted like a maniac on a mission, jumped back into his car, speeding off westward again away from where he eventually ended up.

We "next" encounter Tippit cruising slowly along East 10th, which means he turned north onto Llewellyn, east onto W 9th, crossed Zangs and Beckley (both fairly major intersections), turned south on Storey, then east on E 10th (or maybe he drove south on Beckley and turned off on Cumberland?). This is not a straight drive, but a someone circuitous route at best. If he was "on a mission" (my words), then it only involved 10th St; if he was a "speeding maniac" (mine again) on W 10th, what changed his demeanor so drastically by the time he got a few blocks away? Whether or not you choose to believe Helen Markham's "real friendly like," the fact remains that nobody said anything that even remotely suggested the same kind of manic behavior described by Andrews.

Most importantly, why go speeding westward so you can cruise slowly eastward? Something just doesn't jibe here.

Another thing is that Andrews apparently got "perplexed" the moment he stopped. I mean, put yourself in his shoes: a cop car cuts you off, cop jumps out of his car, runs back to yours, doesn't say a word as he looks into your car, then he turns around and runs back to his car and speeds away. I'd say "perplexed" came after the cop would've already gone back to his car, as in "wow, wasn't that strange! I wonder what it was all about?" Too late, in other words, to read his name badge.

Prior to that, what would your reaction be to a cop doing to you what Tippit supposedly did to Andrews? Wouldn't you be a bit afraid, perhaps, when a cop pulls something like that? I know I would be. In fact, I'd be downright freaked out. Read his name badge? Ha! Not until I knew he wasn't going to drag me out of the car right away and handcuff me for some unknown reason or maybe even shoot me! By then, he was already running back to his car.

Actually, the only thing that convinces me that Tippit might've stopped in the Top Ten store is that he didn't answer a radio call, and may well have been away from the radio. After all, hadn't he just been told to be "at large" in case an emergency came in? "At large" means "patrol at will, we've got nothing for you right now." What even made him go running into the record shop? With all this excitement he was apparently going through, why do you suppose he didn't jump out of his cruiser and tackle the guy walking along 10th??

Either something changed drastically between W 10th and E 10th, or the stuff on the west side didn't happen ... at least, not the way it's described.

[Adam Wilkinson]

(2) Tippit was alone at the time that he apprehended Oswald. According to Buchanan: “Standing orders for police in Dallas, as in other cities, are that radio cars of the type Tippit was driving must have two policemen in them.”

(3) Tippit was not in the sector of Dallas where he had been assigned the day before. He should “have been in downtown Dallas at the time he intercepted Oswald half way between Oswald’s room and Ruby’s”.

(4) Tippit violated police procedure by “failing to make use of the radio beside him to notify his fellow-officers that he was stopping to question a suspect in the Kennedy assassination”.

(

I think Dallas in the time after the assassination would have been in a state of disarray, I doubt normal protocol would have been followed by the DP.

[Chuck Robbins]

Well Nic,

What you said, sorta reminded me of something else....Here is another new interesting story in regard to Tippit. I'm sure some have heard about it, but it might be new to some. I first read about it in Walt Brown's, JFK/DPQ Publication and is also included in Livingstones new book.

For Reaseach Purposes Only!

A woman by the name of Mrs. Doris Holan, lived at 409 E Tenth Street, She lived upstairs directly across the street and her windows looked directly on Tippit's Patrol car and the murder scene.

Mrs Holan has been an unreported witness all these years. Yet she was dying of terminal cancer and talked to Dallas Researcher Michael Brownlow prior to her death in 2000. She met with Brownlow twice and once accompanied with reseracher Prof. BIll Pulte.

Mrs Holan had just returned home from her job that morning, a few minutes after 1:00, then she heard gun shots. She hurried to her window and saw Tippit's patrol car, across the street and parked in front of the driveway between 404 and 410 E. Tenth Sreet. Tippit was lying on the street, near the left front of the car. She saw a man leaving the scene, moving westward towards Patton.

Mrs Holan also noticed something else that had not previously, ever been reported. A second police car in the driveway, which went all the way back to the alley, moving forward slowly towards Tippit's car on Tenth. Near the police car she also saw a man in the driveway walking toward the street where Tippit was parked.

She went downstairs at once and over to Tippit. The man in the driveway continued to the street, walked in front of Tippit's patrol car, paused and looked down at Tippit's head, and retraced his path up the driveway. At the same time, the police car changed direction and backed up in the driveway to the alley running parallel to Tenth, behind the houses on 404 and 410.

In 1963, the driveway could be entered from the alley from the rear, as well as from Tenth. Because Tippit's car was parked in front of the Tenth Street entrance, the alley provided the only passage from the driveway for the driver of the police car.

Mrs. Holan's account of a second police car is supported by the comments of Sam Guinyard, who told Brownlow in 1970 that he saw a police car in the alley shortly after the police shooting. The man in the driveway was apparently also seen by others: a resident of the neighborhood, who wishes to remain anonymous, told Prof Pulte, in 1990, that he had heard about a man in the driveway who approached Tippit's car.

Another thought...Earlene Roberts saw a police car stop and honk in front of the boarding house on 1026 N Beckley, where LHO lived.... at around 1:03. Tippit was shot at around 1:10 to 1:15 at the latest. This could possibly have been the police car she saw.

Dixie

P.S. Nic, don't feel too bad about your Mom not allowing Right Wing Books in the house. When my daughter was a pre-teen, I told her that I didn't want any of those $#%@*& "Beatles" records in the house. Then sometime later, I changed and was even trying to play their music on my guitar....:-)

Officer Parker (call sign #56) had radio'd going to e. jefferson for a code 5 at about 12:45 p.m. This has always seemed suspicious to me in the sense that he was the closest officer to Tippit's position, yet, he did not respond to the officer down call.

Dispatch asked "where is 56?" at 12:30 p.m., the appr. time of JFK's murder, and got no response.

Going through the transcripts of the day, nearly every time #56 was speaking with dispatch, there was some form of interference covering up their conversations.

W. P. Parker is, in my opinion, deserving of more attention.

Chuck

[Duke Lane]

Well Nic,

What you said, sorta reminded me of something else....Here is another new interesting story in regard to Tippit. I'm sure some have heard about it, but it might be new to some. I first read about it in Walt Brown's, JFK/DPQ Publication and is also included in Livingstones new book.

For Reaseach Purposes Only!

A woman by the name of Mrs. Doris Holan, lived at 409 E Tenth Street, She lived upstairs directly across the street and her windows looked directly on Tippit's Patrol car and the murder scene.

Mrs Holan has been an unreported witness all these years. Yet she was dying of terminal cancer and talked to Dallas Researcher Michael Brownlow prior to her death in 2000. She met with Brownlow twice and once accompanied with reseracher Prof. BIll Pulte.

Mrs Holan had just returned home from her job that morning, a few minutes after 1:00, then she heard gun shots. She hurried to her window and saw Tippit's patrol car, across the street and parked in front of the driveway between 404 and 410 E. Tenth Sreet. Tippit was lying on the street, near the left front of the car. She saw a man leaving the scene, moving westward towards Patton.

Mrs Holan also noticed something else that had not previously, ever been reported. A second police car in the driveway, which went all the way back to the alley, moving forward slowly towards Tippit's car on Tenth. Near the police car she also saw a man in the driveway walking toward the street where Tippit was parked.

She went downstairs at once and over to Tippit. The man in the driveway continued to the street, walked in front of Tippit's patrol car, paused and looked down at Tippit's head, and retraced his path up the driveway. At the same time, the police car changed direction and backed up in the driveway to the alley running parallel to Tenth, behind the houses on 404 and 410.

In 1963, the driveway could be entered from the alley from the rear, as well as from Tenth. Because Tippit's car was parked in front of the Tenth Street entrance, the alley provided the only passage from the driveway for the driver of the police car.

Mrs. Holan's account of a second police car is supported by the comments of Sam Guinyard, who told Brownlow in 1970 that he saw a police car in the alley shortly after the police shooting. The man in the driveway was apparently also seen by others: a resident of the neighborhood, who wishes to remain anonymous, told Prof Pulte, in 1990, that he had heard about a man in the driveway who approached Tippit's car.

Another thought...Earlene Roberts saw a police car stop and honk in front of the boarding house on 1026 N Beckley, where LHO lived.... at around 1:03. Tippit was shot at around 1:10 to 1:15 at the latest. This could possibly have been the police car she saw.

Dixie

P.S. Nic, don't feel too bad about your Mom not allowing Right Wing Books in the house. When my daughter was a pre-teen, I told her that I didn't want any of those $#%@*& "Beatles" records in the house. Then sometime later, I changed and was even trying to play their music on my guitar....:-)

Officer Parker (call sign #56) had radio'd going to e. jefferson for a code 5 at about 12:45 p.m. This has always seemed suspicious to me in the sense that he was the closest officer to Tippit's position, yet, he did not respond to the officer down call.

Dispatch asked "where is 56?" at 12:30 p.m., the appr. time of JFK's murder, and got no response.

Going through the transcripts of the day, nearly every time #56 was speaking with dispatch, there was some form of interference covering up their conversations.

W. P. Parker is, in my opinion, deserving of more attention.

Chuck

Some comments and questions on the above:

First, it is difficult to credit the comments of a dead witness who was not under oath and who can't be questioned to clarify any of her points. If you've been to Dealey Plaza around any November 22, it's not unusual to find even cops there who claim to have been a part of something that they clearly were not. We cannot, therefore, suggest that the "testimony" of an ordinary citizen must be taken at face value, especially 30 or more years later.

This is likewise akin to the alleged sighting of Tippit at the Gloco station when all the other evidence suggests that he was in the Kiest/Bonnieview area. To suggest that his report of being there is somehow fabricated requires some pretty fancy footwork on the part of whomever supposedly doctored the tape: it takes just about exactly eight minutes - the time between Tippit's transmission indicating his position there and his report of being at 8th and Lancaster - to travel between those two locations.

(I have done this personally more than one occasion with similar results each and every time. I have travelled at about the speed limit - 40 mph - and stopped fully at each place necessary since Tippit was not told to proceed at any code into central Oak Cliff: we can only assume he went directly but not "at speed" or in any particular haste. There is only one way to travel directly between those two points without either going unnecessarily through residential side streets, or first entering central Oak Cliff and then leaving it only to turn around and go back in.)

Since there is only the belated word of someone who may only be seeking their "fifteen minutes of fame" that contradicts other facts and evidence, I tend to discount the entire Gloco incident, and lacking any kind of direct corroboration of a police car in the alleyway (the driveways do not go directly through from 10th to the alleyway now, and I've seen no indication other than the Holan report that they ever did), I'm not inclined to lend any credence to this report.

Sam Guinyard did not, as far as I can read, indicate anything about a police car other than Tippit's own being anywhere in the area. He gave no affidavit, and his testimony is somewhat "off" from what other people reported, such as his statements that the gunman ran down the east side of Patton until he'd gotten to within feet of Jefferson Blvd., and that he ran with about ten feet of Guinyard. He also said that he was at the shooting scene when Benavides drove up in his truck coming from the east ... or at least, that's the way it sounds like he's describing it (I think there's another explanation, but that's for a later post).

His testimony reads that 7H398 he went to 10th St with Ted Callaway and "saw a police car there" and "the police[man] that was lying down in front of the car." That was the last time he or Joseph Ball used the word "car," the only other references to "car" being relative to the used-car lot he worked at; use of the word "police" was used only once in relation to a car, all the other times being related to "police station," "policeman," or "police officer." So, where the idea that he said he saw a patrol car in the alley came from is beyond me.

Officer Parker (call sign #56) had radio'd going to e. jefferson for a code 5 at about 12:45 p.m. This has always seemed suspicious to me in the sense that he was the closest officer to Tippit's position, yet, he did not respond to the officer down call.

Dispatch asked "where is 56?" at 12:30 p.m., the appr. time of JFK's murder, and got no response.

Going through the transcripts of the day, nearly every time #56 was speaking with dispatch, there was some form of interference covering up their conversations.

W. P. Parker is, in my opinion, deserving of more attention.

Chuck

What is a code (or "signal") five? "Code" usually refererred to how officers travelled in their vehicles, Code One being "directly with haste," Code Two being "with lights," and Code Three being "lights and siren" (or very similar descriptions; it is among DPD testimony, I want to say Lt Pierce -?). I can't imagine anything faster than that, and don't know anything about a "Code Five."

Parker (or #56) may not have been the "closest officer to Tippit's position." It is quite possible that that distinction belongs to the man who was regularly assigned to the patrol district in which Tippit got killed, who was eating lunch less than a mile away at Luby's Cafeteria. It is also worthy of note that not everyone who responded to the Tippit "Signal 19" (shooting) reported having done so, so whether or not Parker(?) or #56 was part of that whole deal is an open question for the moment.

If, however, #56 reported being in or near central Oak Cliff at 12:45, it raises the question why Tippit and Nelson were told to report there just three minutes later, doesn't it? Especially since the regular officer was already there ....

[Chuck Robbins]

Chuck

What is a code (or "signal") five? "Code" usually refererred to how officers travelled in their vehicles, Code One being "directly with haste," Code Two being "with lights," and Code Three being "lights and siren" (or very similar descriptions; it is among DPD testimony, I want to say Lt Pierce -?). I can't imagine anything faster than that, and don't know anything about a "Code Five."

Parker (or #56) may not have been the "closest officer to Tippit's position." It is quite possible that that distinction belongs to the man who was regularly assigned to the patrol district in which Tippit got killed, who was eating lunch less than a mile away at Luby's Cafeteria. It is also worthy of note that not everyone who responded to the Tippit "Signal 19" (shooting) reported having done so, so whether or not Parker(?) or #56 was part of that whole deal is an open question for the moment.

If, however, #56 reported being in or near central Oak Cliff at 12:45, it raises the question why Tippit and Nelson were told to report there just three minutes later, doesn't it? Especially since the regular officer was already there ....

My response to your post follows-

code 5/signal 5 is en route to location/out to lunch or a break.

Parker, as far as I have been able to determine, made no further radio contact on the transcript I referenced, which ended shortly after 2:00 p.m.

I would really like to know why Parker would decide to go to the area where Tippit was murdered at the exact moment that channel 2 was asking for all available cars to go downtown.

In checking the transcript, #56 says "Clear for 5" which doesn't really say it's a code or a signal 5. I wonder if he is saying he is clear for #5 (Lumpkin)?

Then dispatch asks his location to which he responds "e. jefferson".

Immediately following this is the report of the shooter's description.

Chuck

Edited January 18, 2006 by Chuck Robbins

[Duke Lane]

Somehow, the "quotations" seem not to be working, so I've got to look back at who said what to whom. Apologies, and be back you soon!