Oswald's Wallet

[J. Raymond Carroll]

There are numerous paper records/receipts in the archives relating to items of personal propery which recorded when items were passed from one person to another by police officers, FBI agents etc and yet there are no paper records relating to the wallet that was found at the Tippit murder scene.

All these things and yet we know that a wallet was found at the murder scene because WFAA-TV camerman Ron Reiland filmed police officers examining it soon after the murder.

Very strange....

I submit that All this DOES make sense if we consider Ron Rieland a reliable witness/reporter. Rieland went on television that afternoon and reported that the wallet belonged to J.D. Tippit.

There was no reason for any cop to believe or even suspect that Tippit's wallet had anything to do with the crime, therefore why should it be sequestered and recorded as EVIDENCE?

If I were a cop and found my partner's wallet in his patrol car or on the ground where his dead body had lain, (IN CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE IT WAS CRYSTAL CLEAR THAT ROBBing A COP WAS NOT ON THE KILLER'S INTENTION) I would turn to my superior officer and say "is it okay if I take my partner's wallet with me when I go to pay my respects to his widow?"

I'll bet that if anyone finds an inventory of Personal property returned to Marie Tippit, the wallet found at Tenth & Patton will be mentioned there.

[Greg Parker]

Tony,

Ray is correct on three points.

Weiland did describe the wallet as "the Officer's".

Martha did ask the question of Jez at NID in '99.

Martha is a meticulous researcher (and a hell of a nice person to boot).

However... the fact remains that the wallet was not Tippit's. His wallet was black.

[Tony Austin]

Tony,

Ray is correct on three points.

Weiland did describe the wallet as "the Officer's".

Martha did ask the question of Jez at NID in '99.

Martha is a meticulous researcher (and a hell of a nice person to boot).

However... the fact remains that the wallet was not Tippit's. His wallet was black.

Thanks for your reply Greg and thank you to Raymond for your comments.

I can understand Raymond's viewpoint but I know he is wrong over one point. He has suggested that a police officer finding Tippit's wallet at the murder scene might have taken it to Tippit's widow and passed it on to her and offered his condolences at the same time.

If we look at the City of Dallas Archives JFK collection Box 1 ( http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box1.htm ) in folder 4, item 6 we find a report from Davenport and Bardin regarding evidence removed from the body of officer Tippit and given to Captain Doughty of the ID bureau. The report also mentions that the personal affects of Officer Tippit were also turned over to Captain Doughty.

If we then go to Box 9 ( http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box9.htm ) in folder 2, item 3 we find a CSS form by Officer Bardin which lists the 12 personal items belonging to Officer Tippit which were handed over to Captain Doughty at 3:25pm. Here we find "a black billfold" included amongst those items.

This means one of two things could have happened. Firstly, Captain Westbrook, or another officer who had been with him,

could have taken Tippit's wallet over to the Methodist Hospital to put together with Tippit's other possessions ( there is no paper record of this happening) or secondly, Tippit's wallet was removed from his pocket at the hospital having never been on the street and the wallet found at the Tippit murder scene did not belong to Tippit.

It appears that an officer did not simply take the wallet around to Mrs Tippit. As for the two possibilities, you have to ask yourself, which one is more likely?

[Denis Pointing]

Tony,

Ray is correct on three points.

Weiland did describe the wallet as "the Officer's".

Martha did ask the question of Jez at NID in '99.

Martha is a meticulous researcher (and a hell of a nice person to boot).

However... the fact remains that the wallet was not Tippit's. His wallet was black.

Thanks for your reply Greg and thank you to Raymond for your comments.

I can understand Raymond's viewpoint but I know he is wrong over one point. He has suggested that a police officer finding Tippit's wallet at the murder scene might have taken it to Tippit's widow and passed it on to her and offered his condolences at the same time.

If we look at the City of Dallas Archives JFK collection Box 1 ( http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box1.htm ) in folder 4, item 6 we find a report from Davenport and Bardin regarding evidence removed from the body of officer Tippit and given to Captain Doughty of the ID bureau. The report also mentions that the personal affects of Officer Tippit were also turned over to Captain Doughty.

If we then go to Box 9 ( http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box9.htm ) in folder 2, item 3 we find a CSS form by Officer Bardin which lists the 12 personal items belonging to Officer Tippit which were handed over to Captain Doughty at 3:25pm. Here we find "a black billfold" included amongst those items.

This means one of two things could have happened. Firstly, Captain Westbrook, or another officer who had been with him,

could have taken Tippit's wallet over to the Methodist Hospital to put together with Tippit's other possessions ( there is no paper record of this happening) or secondly, Tippit's wallet was removed from his pocket at the hospital having never been on the street and the wallet found at the Tippit murder scene did not belong to Tippit.

It appears that an officer did not simply take the wallet around to Mrs Tippit. As for the two possibilities, you have to ask yourself, which one is more likely?

Good research Tony, it seems you've established that the black wallet cited by Greg was not in fact a wallet at all, but a black "bill fold". However, I dont see anything which would contradict Ray's hypothesis, IMO a sound one, that the brown wallet being examined by officers at the murder scene did belong to Tippit. The wallet would have contained many personal items, not at all relevant to the investigation, and I can easily envision a sympathetic officer ignoring police procedure and handing the wallet directly to Mrs Tippit.

Edited January 27, 2009 by Denis Pointing

[J. Raymond Carroll]

If anyone has evidence that Marie Tippit saw the WFAA film and declared "that's not my husband's wallet" then Barret's little fantasy might be worth a second look. Until then......

[Greg Parker]

Tony,

Ray is correct on three points.

Weiland did describe the wallet as "the Officer's".

Martha did ask the question of Jez at NID in '99.

Martha is a meticulous researcher (and a hell of a nice person to boot).

However... the fact remains that the wallet was not Tippit's. His wallet was black.

Thanks for your reply Greg and thank you to Raymond for your comments.

I can understand Raymond's viewpoint but I know he is wrong over one point. He has suggested that a police officer finding Tippit's wallet at the murder scene might have taken it to Tippit's widow and passed it on to her and offered his condolences at the same time.

If we look at the City of Dallas Archives JFK collection Box 1 ( http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box1.htm ) in folder 4, item 6 we find a report from Davenport and Bardin regarding evidence removed from the body of officer Tippit and given to Captain Doughty of the ID bureau. The report also mentions that the personal affects of Officer Tippit were also turned over to Captain Doughty.

If we then go to Box 9 ( http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box9.htm ) in folder 2, item 3 we find a CSS form by Officer Bardin which lists the 12 personal items belonging to Officer Tippit which were handed over to Captain Doughty at 3:25pm. Here we find "a black billfold" included amongst those items.

This means one of two things could have happened. Firstly, Captain Westbrook, or another officer who had been with him,

could have taken Tippit's wallet over to the Methodist Hospital to put together with Tippit's other possessions ( there is no paper record of this happening) or secondly, Tippit's wallet was removed from his pocket at the hospital having never been on the street and the wallet found at the Tippit murder scene did not belong to Tippit.

It appears that an officer did not simply take the wallet around to Mrs Tippit. As for the two possibilities, you have to ask yourself, which one is more likely?

Good research Tony, it seems you've established that the black wallet cited by Greg was not in fact a wallet at all, but a black "bill fold".

Dennis, not sure if this is supposed to be a serious comment. If it is, please check your favorite dictionary.

However, I dont see anything which would contradict Ray's hypothesis, IMO a sound one, that the brown wallet being examined by officers at the murder scene did not belong to Tippit.

I assume you meant to say "did belong to Tippit"?

Is your theory that Tippit owned both a black "billfold" (essentially the same thing as wallet) and a brown wallet, or is this (also) tongue-in-cheeck?

The wallet would have contained many personal items, not at all relevant to the investigation, and I can easily envision a sympathetic officer ignoring police procedure and handing the wallet directly to Mrs Tippit.

Curious then that the wallet was being displayed for Reiland's rolling camera. I bet that display of deference to the grieving widow really cheered her up... I mean hey.... these guys were so sensitive, they by-passed protocol so the wallet would not be handled and looked into by who knows what prying eyes along the chain - but only after displaying it on TV.

Sorry if I'm missing something, Dennis, but I don't understand where you're coming from with this post.

[Denis Pointing]

Good research Tony, it seems you've established that the black wallet cited by Greg was not in fact a wallet at all, but a black "bill fold".

Dennis, not sure if this is supposed to be a serious comment. If it is, please check your favorite dictionary.

However, I dont see anything which would contradict Ray's hypothesis, IMO a sound one, that the brown wallet being examined by officers at the murder scene did not belong to Tippit.

I assume you meant to say "did belong to Tippit"?

Is your theory that Tippit owned both a black "billfold" (essentially the same thing as wallet) and a brown wallet, or is this (also) tongue-in-cheeck?

The wallet would have contained many personal items, not at all relevant to the investigation, and I can easily envision a sympathetic officer ignoring police procedure and handing the wallet directly to Mrs Tippit.

Curious then that the wallet was being displayed for Reiland's rolling camera. I bet that display of deference to the grieving widow really cheered her up... I mean hey.... these guys were so sensitive, they by-passed protocol so the wallet would not be handled and looked into by who knows what prying eyes along the chain - but only after displaying it on TV.

Sorry if I'm missing something, Dennis, but I don't understand where you're coming from with this post.

Greg, I was indeed being serious. I'm English not American and admittedly we don't use the word billfold. But if I understand the term correctly a "billfold" is a smaller, slimmer version of an actual wallet, used exclusively to carry paper money. I, in fact, carry the same, although I would just call it a "small wallet". At the same time I also carry a "full size" wallet in which I keep I.D., credit cards, photos, tickets and other personal items but never money. I'm suggesting Tippit may have done the same.

Yes Greg, I did indeed mean "did belong to Tippit" as opposed to "did not belong to Tippit". Sorry for the typo.

As for the officers displaying the contents of Tippits wallet "for Reiland's rolling camera" that's a bit of an exaggeration isn't it Greg? I dont belive anybody could identiftify a single item from that distance.

Finally Greg, just for future reference, I never write posts "tongue-in-cheek". To me that's just another form of sarcasm, which I abhor. Denis.

P.S. Just found this: bill⋅fold   /ˈbɪlˌfoʊld/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [bil-fohld] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. a thin, flat, folding case, often of leather, for carrying paper money in the pocket and with fewer compartments than a wallet.

2. wallet (def. 1).

Also called, especially British, notecase.

Origin:

1890–95, Americanism; bill 1 + fold 1

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Edited January 27, 2009 by Denis Pointing

[Mark Knight]

In America, the custom is that a man usually carries only one billfold or wallet, and the terms are used interchangably. One noticable exception might be commercial truckers, who might carry a "trucker's wallet" for company money, invoices, receipts, etc. in addition to a personal wallet or billfold. Over here, what you seem to be describing as a "billfold" might be referred to as a "money clip," a device used to hold paper money folded once. Women, who carry purses, might have a separate wallet and a billfold, but most men in America only carry one..or one at a time, anyway.

So what I am referring to, and was referring to when I began this thread, is the billfold/wallet [single] that most men in America carry.

Sorry for any confusion this might have generated. Most American men only carry one wallet/billfold, usually in a hip pocket, and that wallet/billfold normally contains both identification cards and cash, as well as photographs in many cases. I was unaware that the custom was different in other countries, and I apologize for my ingnorance.

But in the context of America, 1963, the average American man only carried one wallet/billfold at a time, and most only owned one at a time. Yet Oswald is alleged to have had three on November 22, 1963: the one left at the Payne house, the one allegedly found at the Tippit murder scene, and the one on his person when he was apprehended at the Texas Theater.

And that is the basis of this entire thread.