Oswald's Wallet

[Mark Knight]

David G. Healy wrote:

Mark,

Be prepared , thoughts, original ideas or assumptions not in agreement with Gary -or- the lacking WCR, will earn you the occasional note of correction, corrections that adhere to the party line, of course...

David

David, I thought it odd that someone of Gary Mack's stature in the community of JFK assassination-related research would be a member of this forum, but have zero posts to his credit here. So when I received his first message this morning, I made a point to post the message in its entireity; therefore, no one could accurately accuse me of taking any of Gary's statements out of context and twisting them.

I will be sure to post any further messages from Gary, as I certainly don't want to deprive the forum of any comments made by any researchers as important as Gary Mack. Nor do I want there to be any impression that I am doing anything differently in private than what I am publicly posting on the forum.

Now, let's get back to discussing the contents of the two undisputed Oswald walltes...the one left at the Paine house, and the one he was carrying when he was arrested. There was $170 in one, and $13 and change in the other...or, $183 total after his Coca-Cola, his bus ride, and his taxi trip. Thats still a lot of money for a minimum-wage worker to be carrying.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

David G. Healy wrote:

Mark,

David

David, I thought it odd that someone of Gary Mack's stature in the community of JFK assassination-related research would be a member of this forum, but have zero posts to his credit here.

Mark, perhaps it is because one likes to keep fully abreast of the ongoing discussions, without becoming embroiled in any nasty infighting,like defending your beliefs on an open forum

[Mark Knight]

Gary Mack wrote me again:

Mark,

Sorry, the typo was mine. I was referring to Oswald's 1962 tax return, filed in 1963, which Marina has and which she has shared with other researchers.

My point is simply that there is no evidence or indication of any significant unknown income for Oswald. The 1962 return matches all his sources and his known income and expenses for 1963 are in line with the amount of cash he had on hand the morning of 11-22-63, which was $184.

Without any contrary evidence, it would appear that Oswald was almost out of money, had only a temporary job, and faced the prospect of providing for a family of four. What he did as a result of that realization is a matter of some controversy, isn't it?

Gary Mack

Now, wait a minute, Gary...

"...almost out of money..."??? With nearly [/b]an entire month's pay in his pockets? I would think that, if I were carrying nearly a month's pay in my pockets, in cash, that I was a wealthy man, indeed!

In 1963, $10,000 would buy an adequate home in may communities...$20,000 an average 2- or 3-bedroom ranch style, and $30,000 a "dream home." House payments in the $50-$100 range weren't uncommon. For a "working stiff" to be carrying around the equivalent of $1,000 in today's dollars is simply fantastic [as in, 'the stuff of fantasies]. With that kind of cash on hand, the average "working stiff" in 1963 would have thought himself to be unbelievably wealthy, not in dire straits at all!

For example, in 1963, my dad had a salary of $65 a week, and there were 5 of us in that household. We weren't vacationing in Acupulco, but we had food. clothing, and a roof over our heads. Believe me, if Dad ever carried $184, it was after he'd sold something [he was in the auto/farm equipment business]. Usually, if he had a spare $10, we'd go out to eat or maybe visit the local drive-in movie [in 1963, we could do both on $10!]. Having $184 in cash, after living expenses...well, it just seldom happened.

And I think that's true for Oswald as well.

[Ron Ecker]

It seems obvious that Oswald at least thought he was working for someone (Banister, the CIA, ONI, whoever) during the time he was being set up. Someone had him distributing leaflets, taking bus rides to Mexico, waiting in a second-floor lunchroom, going to the Texas Theater to meet a contact, etc. I doubt he was doing all this for free. I mean, people keep wondering who paid for the assassination, meaning that it was a very expensive proposition. What that means is that all the players, from the planners to fall guys like Oswald, had to be paid for their time and expenses. So I doubt that Oswald was worried about going broke, and as a conspirator (in whatever role he thought he was playing) it's easy to see how he had so much cash on hand despite a minimum-wage job at the TSBD. There is no mystery here.

Ron

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

I received the following message:

Hi Mark,

You've made an erroneous assumption that ALL of Oswald's money came from his TSBD employment. In fact, he had saved money from earlier jobs and unemployment compensation. All his tax returns were released except for 1962. Marina has a copy and researchers have examined it and found nothing suspicious or anything that was not already known.

Gary Mack

Mark:

Just a quick heads up about Gary.

I had some lengthy correspondence with Gary some years back, and we posted on the same forum for a few years, prior to his abrupt termination of posting. On the one hand, Gary always struck me as a decent chap, and was very helpful to me on a number of occasions when he was one of very few people in a position to provide data I needed for my own quest. I've always been grateful for that help.

On the other hand, it also quickly became apparent to me that Gary was very quick to assure others that certain things had already been delved into and found to be red herrings, or dead ends, or blind alleys. If true, such advice is quite helpful and may save one a tremendous amount of energy. However, if not true.... it forestalls further investigation into areas that may yet yield fruit. His message to you, cited above, may be a case in point.

"All his tax returns were released except for 1962. Marina has a copy and researchers have examined it and found nothing suspicious or anything that was not already known."

This presumes, of course, that the tax returns that have been studied and found to be so mundane are the genuine articles. Anyone familiar with John Armstrong's work on this subject may not be nearly so sanguine as Gary would steer us toward becoming. There are numerous indicators that what have been made available to us are not true artifacts at all, but counterfeits created solely for the purpose of laying to rest any suspicions regarding Oswald, based upon his finances.

I know in advance that Gary will not thank me for mentioning this, as the topic of John Armstrong to him is like waving a red flag to a bull. At least this was certainly the case in years gone by when Gary and Dave Perry did their level best to villify Armstrong and his research, and were full of assurances that anything Armstrong came up with was just fantasy. It became quite fascinating to watch, as Gary and Dave attempted to impeach witnesses whose recollections Armstrong had videotaped, but to whom neither Gary nor Dave had ever spoken. The rationales they provided were unconvincing, to say the least, and I was left wondering why these two gents squandered so much time pre-emptively dismissing and diminishing Armstrong's efforts.

In another thread here, some time back, I mentioned being asked to vet an early Armstrong manuscript. I was flattered to be asked, but also quite puzzled, as I had made it clear in all my posts on the other forum that I did not subscribe to Armstrong's central hypothesis, but felt we could nevertheless benefit from the results of Armstrong's research, without necessarily embracing his conclusions. Gary and Dave were quite cocksure that Armstrong's research methodology was slipshod, and assured the members of that forum that it was unsafe to accept anything Armstrong uncovered. For my part, I've found Armstrong's research methodology to be impeccable, and of a substantially higher order than those who have attacked him. One needn't accept Armstrong's conclusions in order to benefit, for example, from his research into the topic of Oswald's tax returns.

Read what Armstrong has to say on the topic of those tax returns, and then ask yourself how readily you're prepared to accept the blithe assurances from Gary Mack that purported research efforts [generic and uncited, you'll note] have disclosed "nothing suspicious or anything that was not already known."

Compare and contrast Armstrong's meticulously footnoted dissection of the topic with the undefined broad brush dismissal of the same by Gary Mack, and ask yourself which approach is more convincing.

Gary Mack's cavalier dismissal - "researchers have examined it and found nothing" - can be made only if one excludes John Armstrong from the fraternity of "researchers." No doubt, that would be Gary's preference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[David G. Healy]

David G. Healy wrote:

Mark,

Be prepared  , thoughts, original ideas or assumptions not in agreement with Gary -or- the lacking WCR, will earn you the occasional note of correction, corrections that adhere to the party line, of course...

David

David, I thought it odd that someone of Gary Mack's stature in the community of JFK assassination-related research would be a member of this forum, but have zero posts to his credit here.  So when I received his first message this morning, I made a point to post the message in its entireity; therefore, no one could accurately accuse me of taking any of Gary's statements out of context and twisting them.

I will be sure to post any further messages from Gary, as I certainly don't want to deprive the forum of any comments made by any researchers as important as Gary Mack.  Nor do I want there to be any impression that I am doing anything differently in private than what I am publicly posting on the forum.

Now, let's get back to discussing the contents of the two undisputed Oswald walltes...the one left at the Paine house, and the one he was carrying when he was arrested.  There was $170 in one, and $13 and change in the other...or, $183 total after his Coca-Cola, his bus ride, and his taxi trip.  Thats still a lot of money for a minimum-wage worker to be carrying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mark,

Yeah, Gary has a tough job -- dealing with the likes of me and a few others that have been a Z-film specific, thorn in his side -- I've been getting notes from Gary for what, 5 years now, regarding same, some informative, others: eh! ... I've nothing personal nor professionally regarding him or his long past studies. We do differ on how documentary interviews are conducted however.

He did collaborate with Jack White years back. That to me is a good indication of something

It's been Gary's [and/or the 6th Floor Museum policy] NOT to post, publically on any forum or USNET boards -- to the best of my knowledge he's never deviated from that...

As to Oswald, as soon as anyone reveals to the research community that 'TSBD employee Oswald' did anything other than dry fire a Carcano -- that guy didn't fire ANYTHING on Nov 22nd... I don't think he could of hit a vehicle the size of the Titanic going down Elm Street with that weapon -- he did however have the cash to buy a few thousand 6.5mm rounds if he chose....

David

Edited August 25, 2005 by David G. Healy

[Ron Ecker]

Former CIA accountant James Wilcott told the HSCA that he believed that Oswald was a regular employee of the CIA and received a full-time salary.

The HSCA concluded that Wilcott's testimony was "not worthy of belief." (What else could it conclude?)

http://www.jfklancer.com/Wilcott.html

[Carrie Gallagher-Driscoll]

On the WALLETs...all of the above and more.

I wrote articles for the Fourth Decade in the 90s on the wallets.

John Armstrong has the best answers in HARVEY&LEE, pages 862-868.

There were at least four. DPD suppressed photo below. Also, wallet

at Tippit scene.

Jack

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know that no one believes me or Leavelle. But Leavelle has never swayed on the fact that the wallet was on Oswald at the time of his arrest. Regardless, I've always been facinated by the infatuation people have with the location. People that don't believe LHO killed Tippit will not believe it was found on 10th and Patton. I had the luck of getting the "Kennedy tour" from Jimbo in 1996. He took me everywhere that involved teh assassination and talked about anything under the sun. (This is the same trip that he took pics of me in the cream colored suit and hat). He's always been consistent and very forthcoming with me. Doubt it helps anyone but I shared it all the same.

-C

[Mark Knight]

Carrie, I don't doubt for a moment that Oswald had a wallet(1) on him at the time of his arrest. But the WC, and others, reported that he left his wallet(2) containing $170 on the dresser at the Paine house as well. And there are reports of a wallet(3) being found, containing Oswald ID--and thereby tying him to the Tippitt killing--at the 10th and Patton murder scene.

Seems like a lot of wallets for one man to carry...and a lot of cash for a $1.25-an-hour working stiff to be packing as well.

In Gary's case, I don't understand the logic of his argument...first he tells me that the $170 is the equivalent of $1038 in today's money, and then he tells me that it's an indication that Oswald was nearly broke. Now, maybe in GARY'S world, having a grand in your pocket is "almost out of money," but that's not the case in MY neighborhood.

Or let's frame it another way...the total [$184] that Oswald had access to on November 22, 1963 was nearly a month's pay. A month's pay is not usually considered just "walkin'-around money," whether you're a lawyer or a welder or a checkout clerk; it's usually considered a healthy chunk o' change.

And having a whole month's pay in your hands at once usually doesn't constitute "almost out of money."

So I guess I must've missed Gary's point completely.

[Jack White]

I looked up my old CD of Armstrong's early manuscript for H&L, which

I used to help John with proofreading. Here is a passage about

the arrest AND THE WALLETS:

QUOTE FROM EARLY H&L MANUSCRIPT

Officer Hutson ran towards Oswald from the north aisle and grabbed him around the throat from behind while Officer Walker held onto his left hand. Hill ran down the aisle toward Oswald and heard someone yell "He's got a gun." Hill grabbed Oswald's left arm while McDonald jerked the pistol from Oswald's right hand and gave it to Detective Bob Carroll. As Oswald was being subdued by officers he kept yelling "I am not resisting arrest. I am not resisting arrest." Sgt. Hill then helped Officer Hawkins use his handcuffs to cuff Oswald.

After Oswald was handcuffed Captain Westbrook confronted him and asked for his name. When Oswald refused to answer Westbrook yelled "Get him out of here. Get him in the squad car and head straight to the city hall and notify them you are on the way." Sgt. Hill told the Commission "I did not search him, and being that he was handcuffed, and being that they were moving him out hurriedly, I don't recall anyone else searching him after he was placed under arrest."

NOTE: Oswald was not searched prior to his being led from the theater by police. Some critics speculate that Westbrook placed the wallet found at the Tippit murder scene into Oswald's pocket before he was taken out of the theater, but not a single theater patron or police officer saw this occur. En route to DPD headquarters Det. Paul Bentley removed a brown wallet from Oswald's pants pocket. After arriving at police headquarters, shortly after 2:00 pm, Oswald's brown wallet was removed from his pocket by Officer Walker and then turned over to Lt. Baker.

5 Wallets:

1) Captain Westbrook took possession of the wallet found at the Tippit murder scene, which contained identification for Lee Oswald and Alek J. Hidell, and showed it to FBI agent Robert Barrett. This wallet was last known to be in Westbrook's custody but soon disappeared.

2) After arriving at DPD headquarters Officer C.T. Walker removed a brown wallet from Harvey Oswald's rear pocket and examined the contents. FBI agent Manning Clements examined the wallet during the evening of November 22 and listed the contents in his report. The wallet and contents were turned over to J.B. Hicks of the DPD Identification Bureau at 5:30 pm on November 23. Four days later, on November 27, Captain Fritz turned over the wallet and contents to FBI agent James Hosty.

3-4) On November 26 Ruth Paine voluntarily turned over to the Dallas Police a red billfold (FBI Ex.#382) and a brown wallet (FBI Ex.#114) which she said belonged to Oswald.

5) On November 27, 1963, Marina turned over a "black, plastic wallet, with the inscription Waggoner National Bank, Vernon, Texas," which contained $180.00 in cash to the Secret Service.

With Detective Paul Bentley holding his left arm and Patrolman C.T. Walker holding his right arm, Lee Harvey Oswald was led into the lobby. As the man in the brown shirt was escorted through the front exit doors a DPD officer told Julia Postal "we have our man on both counts" and identified the man by calling out his name, "Oswald." TIPPIT-22 The officer told Julia Postal that man in the brown shirt had shot and killed officer J.D. Tippit. She knew Tippit because he used to work part time at the theater.

NOTE: if Postal's statements are correct, then the Dallas police officer who identified Oswald by name knew his identity before he was taken out of the theater, before he was placed in the police car, and before Paul Bentley removed his wallet and looked at his identification. This officer could only have learned Oswald's name from identification found in the wallet at the Tippit murder scene.

As Oswald was being led out of the theater Detective Paul Bentley told Officer Walker to cover Oswald's face with his uniform cap, which he did. Oswald then shouted "I want a lawyer, I know my rights. Typical police brutality. Why are you doing this to me?" FBI

FBI agent Bardwell Odum observed Oswald as he was led out the front of the theater, taken past an unruly crowd, and put into the back seat of a patrol car. Detective Bentley sat on Oswald's left and Officer Walker sat on his right, while Officer K.E. Lyons got into the front passenger seat and Sgt. Hill sat in the center. As Detective Bob Carroll got into the driver's seat he pulled the .38 pistol (given to him by officer McDonald) from his belt and handed it to Sergeant Hill.

Inside the theater Captain Westbrook turned his attention to obtaining statements from theater patrons. He told the Commission "There was a lieutenant and then I ordered all of them to be sure and take the names of everyone in the theater at that time." Westbrook was referring to Lieutenant Cunningham, who instructed the uniformed officers to close the theater and interview all of the theater patrons.

After Oswald was out of the building theater patron John Gibson heard a policeman yell "Lock the doors" and ran to help the officer. As soon as the exterior doors were secured Detectives E.E. Taylor, John B. Toney, and Lt. Cunningham began taking the names and addresses of all theater patrons. TIPPIT-23 Toney was the officer who had recently questioned the young man on the stairs of the balcony.

Julia Postal sold 24 theater tickets, which accounted for 11 people in the lower level and 13 people in the balcony. Some of the people in the lower level saw the man in the brown shirt (Lee Harvey Oswald) move from seat to seat, and to and from the concession area. They could have described this man's movements to the police, FBI, or Warren Commission and told them how long he had been in the theater. Some of the 13 people sitting in the balcony could have told police when the man wearing the white t-shirt (Lee Oswald) arrived.

[Jack White]

I looked up my old CD of Armstrong's early manuscript for H&L, which

I used to help John with proofreading. Here is a passage about

the arrest AND THE WALLETS:

QUOTE FROM EARLY H&L MANUSCRIPT

Officer Hutson ran towards Oswald from the north aisle and grabbed him around the throat from behind while Officer Walker held onto his left hand. Hill ran down the aisle toward Oswald and heard someone yell "He's got a gun." Hill grabbed Oswald's left arm while McDonald jerked the pistol from Oswald's right hand and gave it to Detective Bob Carroll. As Oswald was being subdued by officers he kept yelling "I am not resisting arrest. I am not resisting arrest." Sgt. Hill then helped Officer Hawkins use his handcuffs to cuff Oswald.

After Oswald was handcuffed Captain Westbrook confronted him and asked for his name. When Oswald refused to answer Westbrook yelled "Get him out of here. Get him in the squad car and head straight to the city hall and notify them you are on the way." Sgt. Hill told the Commission "I did not search him, and being that he was handcuffed, and being that they were moving him out hurriedly, I don't recall anyone else searching him after he was placed under arrest."

NOTE: Oswald was not searched prior to his being led from the theater by police. Some critics speculate that Westbrook placed the wallet found at the Tippit murder scene into Oswald's pocket before he was taken out of the theater, but not a single theater patron or police officer saw this occur. En route to DPD headquarters Det. Paul Bentley removed a brown wallet from Oswald's pants pocket. After arriving at police headquarters, shortly after 2:00 pm, Oswald's brown wallet was removed from his pocket by Officer Walker and then turned over to Lt. Baker.

5 Wallets:

1) Captain Westbrook took possession of the wallet found at the Tippit murder scene, which contained identification for Lee Oswald and Alek J. Hidell, and showed it to FBI agent Robert Barrett. This wallet was last known to be in Westbrook's custody but soon disappeared.

2) After arriving at DPD headquarters Officer C.T. Walker removed a brown wallet from Harvey Oswald's rear pocket and examined the contents. FBI agent Manning Clements examined the wallet during the evening of November 22 and listed the contents in his report. The wallet and contents were turned over to J.B. Hicks of the DPD Identification Bureau at 5:30 pm on November 23. Four days later, on November 27, Captain Fritz turned over the wallet and contents to FBI agent James Hosty.

3-4) On November 26 Ruth Paine voluntarily turned over to the Dallas Police a red billfold (FBI Ex.#382) and a brown wallet (FBI Ex.#114) which she said belonged to Oswald.

5) On November 27, 1963, Marina turned over a "black, plastic wallet, with the inscription Waggoner National Bank, Vernon, Texas," which contained $180.00 in cash to the Secret Service.

With Detective Paul Bentley holding his left arm and Patrolman C.T. Walker holding his right arm, Lee Harvey Oswald was led into the lobby. As the man in the brown shirt was escorted through the front exit doors a DPD officer told Julia Postal "we have our man on both counts" and identified the man by calling out his name, "Oswald." TIPPIT-22 The officer told Julia Postal that man in the brown shirt had shot and killed officer J.D. Tippit. She knew Tippit because he used to work part time at the theater.

NOTE: if Postal's statements are correct, then the Dallas police officer who identified Oswald by name knew his identity before he was taken out of the theater, before he was placed in the police car, and before Paul Bentley removed his wallet and looked at his identification. This officer could only have learned Oswald's name from identification found in the wallet at the Tippit murder scene.

As Oswald was being led out of the theater Detective Paul Bentley told Officer Walker to cover Oswald's face with his uniform cap, which he did. Oswald then shouted "I want a lawyer, I know my rights. Typical police brutality. Why are you doing this to me?" FBI

FBI agent Bardwell Odum observed Oswald as he was led out the front of the theater, taken past an unruly crowd, and put into the back seat of a patrol car. Detective Bentley sat on Oswald's left and Officer Walker sat on his right, while Officer K.E. Lyons got into the front passenger seat and Sgt. Hill sat in the center. As Detective Bob Carroll got into the driver's seat he pulled the .38 pistol (given to him by officer McDonald) from his belt and handed it to Sergeant Hill.

Inside the theater Captain Westbrook turned his attention to obtaining statements from theater patrons. He told the Commission "There was a lieutenant and then I ordered all of them to be sure and take the names of everyone in the theater at that time." Westbrook was referring to Lieutenant Cunningham, who instructed the uniformed officers to close the theater and interview all of the theater patrons.

After Oswald was out of the building theater patron John Gibson heard a policeman yell "Lock the doors" and ran to help the officer. As soon as the exterior doors were secured Detectives E.E. Taylor, John B. Toney, and Lt. Cunningham began taking the names and addresses of all theater patrons. TIPPIT-23 Toney was the officer who had recently questioned the young man on the stairs of the balcony.

Julia Postal sold 24 theater tickets, which accounted for 11 people in the lower level and 13 people in the balcony. Some of the people in the lower level saw the man in the brown shirt (Lee Harvey Oswald) move from seat to seat, and to and from the concession area. They could have described this man's movements to the police, FBI, or Warren Commission and told them how long he had been in the theater. Some of the 13 people sitting in the balcony could have told police when the man wearing the white t-shirt (Lee Oswald) arrived.

[Pat Speer]

Don't know if this is relevant to this thread or not at this point, but Hugh Aynsworth wrote that he was given the name of Hidell as an Oswald alias on the DAY of the assassination, and that this name came from Oswald's wallet. He says he drove all over following various leads asking people if they'd ever known a Hidell or whether a Hidell lived at their rooming house. He says he learned about Hidell from either Jim Ewell or Harry McCormick. Any theory claiming that the Hidell ID was planted on the day after the assassination should take this into account.

[Mark Knight]

Gary Mack wrote:

Mark,

You sure did miss my point, so let me explain it a different way. $170 was all the money Oswald had in the world. There were no known bank accounts or money stashes anywhere. He had no assets, no car, no valuable jewelry - nothing of value of any kind.

He also had two young girls and a wife whom he beat regularly and who wanted nothing to do with him. His minimum wage job was about to end within the next few weeks and his past work experience was not enough to land a decent job.

So he gave virtually all of it to Marina along with his wedding ring. I don't know of any clearer way to say, "This marriage is over."

If you really think his finances don't add up, then do the resarch. Read "Oswald's Finances" in chapter six of the Warren Report. It's crucial background information researchers need to know to figure out what did and did not happen. Here's the link: http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...eport_0176b.htm

Then look at the actual numbers in Appendix XIV of the Report, which includes documented and predicted expenses based on the Oswalds' known lifestyle and activities : http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...eport_0383a.htm

If you still think they don't make sense, then it shouldn't be too hard to find the holes in the official story of Oswald's money trail, right? Just ignore what folks like Mary Ferrell, David Lifton, Mary La Fontaine, Marina Oswald and others have already found and do your own study.

Let me know what you find.

Gary Mack

Gary, I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. Obviously, Oswald didn't smoke, dring, drive a car, or engage in any hobbies more expensive than reading books, probably those borrowed from the nearby library. So while it's possible--and entirely likely--that he actually did save nearly a month's pay after less than two months on the job...the fact that he had nearly a month's pay doesn't make him destitute. Putting myself in his shoes...if I had $3000 [approximately a month's pay, before taxes] in my pocket, and had someone else supporting my family, and had only the expense of my own meals and a cheap sleeping room to pay for, I'm pretty sure that I'd feel as though I was on top of the world!

As far as the state of Oswald's marriage, I think the fact that he'd already contacted the Soviet embassy about getting Marina a visa back to Russia might suggest that he was looking for a way to send her back. As far as June and Rachel were concerned, he'd never been much of a father to them--possibly due to the lack of a suitable role model in his own life--and I doubt that, had the marriage broken up and Marina taken the girls to the USSR, Oswald would've lost much sleep over it.

It wasn't as if Oswald was heartbroken, or as if he was fighting to preserve his marriage. It seems that it was more of a case that he was resigned to the outcome, and he was emotionally fairly detached from any consequences. And as far as his employment prospects, even the WC report talks of Oswald's high opinion of his own intelligence...implicitly making the case that, rather than being despondent, Oswald had every reason--in his own mind--to think that he'd easily land another job, and that once Marina and the girls were headed back to Russia, life for him would be looking up. After all, hadn't he just proven that he could live on half his salary...meaning, of course, that within the next few weeks, if he could continue to do so, he could then weather a month or more of being unemployed without having to depend upon any unemployment compensation, while he sought another job that a bright young fellow like him should be able to land?

So I believe that you and I see the same evidence, but we come to exactly opposite conclusions about Oswald's outlook on life as of the morning of November 22, 1963. You see him as destitute and desperate, while I see him as having a bundle of cash, and having a new future ahead of him...at least until fate intervened at 12:30 pm.

[Pat Speer]

Gary Mack wrote:

Mark,

You sure did miss my point, so let me explain it a different way. $170 was all the money Oswald had in the world. There were no known bank accounts or money stashes anywhere. He had no assets, no car, no valuable jewelry - nothing of value of any kind.

He also had two young girls and a wife whom he beat regularly and who wanted nothing to do with him. His minimum wage job was about to end within the next few weeks and his past work experience was not enough to land a decent job.

So he gave virtually all of it to Marina along with his wedding ring. I don't know of any clearer way to say, "This marriage is over."

Gary Mack

It wasn't as if Oswald was heartbroken, or as if he was fighting to preserve his marriage.  It seems that it was more of a case that he was resigned to the outcome, and he was emotionally fairly detached from any consequences.  And as far as his employment prospects, even the WC report talks of Oswald's high opinion of his own intelligence...implicitly making the case that, rather than being despondent, Oswald had every reason--in his own mind--to think that he'd easily land another job, and that once Marina and the girls were headed back to Russia, life for him would be looking up.  After all, hadn't he just proven that he could live on half his salary...meaning, of course, that within the next few weeks, if he could continue to do so, he could then weather a month or more of being unemployed without having to depend upon any unemployment compensation, while he sought another job that a bright young fellow like him should be able to land?

So I believe that you and I see the same evidence, but we come to exactly opposite conclusions about Oswald's outlook on life as of the morning of November 22, 1963.  You see him as destitute and desperate, while I see him as having a bundle of cash, and having a new future ahead of him...at least until fate intervened at 12:30 pm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree, Mark. It seems that Gary was overly-impressed by Dale Myers' book. Oswald was anything but the desperate loser so many paint him to be. As someone who's worked in warehouses, I can say that in that world Oswald was doing fine. He had a lovely wife with whom he fought but who still loved him. (If anyone believes Marina wanted nothing to do with Lee, they should go back and do some reading. Marina was playing hard to get...and Lee almost certainly knew this.) He had two beautiful children. And he had enough money in his pocket to go out at night and buy ice cream. There is no evidence whatsoever that Oswald thought himself a failure; this is the projection of elitists and closet fascists who can't perceive that a man with few worldly goods can find any happiness. This idea, started by the WC, that Oswald killed Kennedy because he wanted to show the world he was a "big man" is equally heinous. Some people just don't get it. In Oswald's mind he may very well have been a "big man." While Oswald may very well have tried to kill Walker, there is not one SCINTILLA (the LN'ers favorite word) of evidence that he planned on telling anyone about this, so they would think him a BIG MAN. Nor did he take credit for killing Kennedy when he had the chance..."Big Men" don't shoot a man in front of his wife, then lie about it and act surprised when they are actually charged with the crime, not in anyone's estimation, even that of the lowest punk. In short, Oswald had a lot more going on than most 24 year-olds, and had no reason to give up his life. The man who looked a gun-toting Marion Baker in the eye without breaking a sweat and calmly asked for a lawyer in his DPD press conferences was not desperate, or crazed, or impulsive.

On the other hand, iif you're looking for a desperate person trying to be the "big man," you need look no further than Dale Myers himself. His computer simulation is as morally bankrupt and dishonest as it gets, and is the intellectual equivalent of shooting a man in the back in front of his wife and then lying about it. Perhaps Myers is so convinced of Oswald's "malice" because he knows that's what he'd be like if he were in Oswald's shoes.

[Robert Howard]

Here is something to ponder, reprinted courtesy of John Armstrong's "Harvey and Lee."

The last example of evidence alteration I will discuss is the most

difficult to follow. It involves the two Oswald wallets found in Oak

Cliff and is detailed in Dale Myers' new book _With Malice_. A wallet

was found at the scene of the Tippit murder by Dallas Police which

contained identification for Lee Harvey Oswald and Alik Hidell (SLIDE

18). Twenty minutes later a different wallet was taken from Oswald's

left rear pocket by Detective Paul Bentley (RIGHT 7). This wallet, the

"arrest wallet" also contained identification for Lee Harvey Oswald and

Alik Hidell. Both wallets remained in custody of the Dallas Police from

November 22nd until November 26th. Bentley turned over Oswald's "arrest

wallet" to Lt. Baker. The wallet and contents were kept in this well

worn envelope (SLIDE 19) in the property room until turned over to the

FBI. Photographs of the "arrest wallet" and contents were taken by the

Dallas Police on November 23rd and given to the FBI and Secret Service

(SLIDE 20). The wallet found at the Tippit murder scene turned up in

Captain Fritz's desk drawer where it remained until November 27th.

On November 25th, Oswald's possessions were returned from Washington to

be inventoried and photographed. Here we begin to see how the FBI

tampered with the wallets. The FBI inventory listed two wallets--items

#114 and #382 (SLIDE 21)--yet neither was "Oswald's arrest wallet" or

the "wallet from Tippit murder scene". These inventory sheets showed the

wallets coming from the Ruth Paine's house. But neither wallet was

initialed by Dallas Police. Neither wallet was listed on the Dallas

Police handwritten inventory (SLIDE 22) completed at Ruth Paine's house.

Neither wallet was listed on the Dallas Police typed inventory-which

became Warren Commission exhibits (RIGHT 8). Neither wallet was

photographed among Oswald's possessions on the floor of the Dallas

Police station. Yet two wallets were listed on the FBI inventory--where

did they come from? Were they on the Dallas Police evidence film?

To answer that question, I looked at the two rolls of film returned to

the Dallas Police by the FBI. (Hold up Dallas Police film) Item #114 was

listed (SLIDE 23) as "brown billfold with Marine group photograph." But

negative #114 (RIGHT 9) showed only the Marine group photo. When a

photograph is made from this negative, the "brown billfold"--allegedly

from Ruth Paine's house--disappeared (SLIDE 24).

Item #382 (SLIDE 25) was listed on the FBI inventory as "red billfold

and one scrap of white paper with Russian script". But negative #382

(RIGHT 10) showed only the paper with the Russian script. When a

photograph is made from this negative the "red billfold"--allegedly from

Ruth Paine's house--disappeared (SLIDE 26).

Both negatives were altered between the time the Dallas police turned

over their original undeveloped film to the FBI and the FBI returned

copies of that film to the police. Why cause the wallets in the

original film to disappear? Because the original photos taken by the

Dallas Police were probably photographs of the "arrest wallet" and the

"Tippit murder scene wallet"--two wallets which contained identification

for Oswald and Hidell which would have been unexplainable.

To find out what happened to "Oswald's arrest wallet" and the "Tippit

murder scene wallet" we must again look at the Dallas Police film. The

2nd roll of film begins in the middle of negative #361 (SLIDE 27) and

ends in the middle of negative #451 (RIGHT 11). All of the negative

images after #451, with one exception, were ruined. The one exception

is the negative image of a wallet (SLIDE 28). When the negative image

is developed into a photograph, you can see that it is "Oswald's arrest

wallet" (RIGHT 12). This wallet, along with all other items in this

film, were sent to Washington on November 26th.... Remember when I told

you the Dallas Police were blamed for the 255 missing negatives because

of "faulty technique"? Does this look like faulty technique? Or does

this look like another example of the FBI splicing together and

tampering with the original Dallas Police film?

With the "Oswald arrest wallet" in Washington, the "Tippit murder scene

wallet" remained in Captain Fritz's desk drawer. On November 27th,

James Hosty picked up the "Tippit murder scene wallet" from Fritz and

gave Fritz a signed receipt (SLIDE 29). Hosty then took that wallet and

other items obtained from Fritz to the Dallas FBI office. According to

Hosty, these items were neither photographed nor inventoried. They were

placed in a box and flown to Washington by Warren DeBreuys. Two days

later the Dallas Police notified the FBI they had failed to photograph

the wallet and contents and wanted photos (RIGHT 13). The FBI ignored

this request and never photographed the "Tippit murder scene wallet".

The only known photos of this wallet are from WFAA newsreel film.

When the FBI finished altering Oswald's possessions, Hoover sent this

March 1964 memo (SLIDE 30): "the Bureau has re-photographed all of the

material in possession of the Bureau and will send a complete set of

these photographs to you by separate mail". Included among the hundreds

of new FBI photographs were items #114 (SLIDE 31) and #382 (RIGHT 14).

These two wallets were substituted for "Oswalds arrest wallet" and the

"Tippit murder scene wallet"....

I am extremely aware of the fact that there is a widespread and justifiable criticism of Armstrong's work, some of this criticism is based on how far he carries the two Oswalds thesis, I do not subscribe to the two Oswalds thesis to the degree that John Armstrong does, but I, as many researchers am aware that the Oswald "impersonations" are based in immutable fact "Garland Slack, et al...Other criticism's again, I think, justified, are that the finished print version leaves something to be desired, as to quality and editing issues.....i.e. disjointed is a word that come up. But, Joan Mellen's book reinforces the validity of the Oswald impersonations to the point that Armstrong's book has to be taken into the picture. Do not throw the baby out with the bathwater....

If you really want to stumble on to an Oswald impersonation scenario read former Dallas Mayor Wes Wise's revelations on an Oswald impersonator near the Texas Theatre driving off at a high rate of speed, during the same time frame that Lee Harvey Oswald is being arrested. One version is in High Treason - Groden/Livingstone pg. 277-78; Coupled with the other "Oswald" that exited the back of the Texas Theatre "seemingly in custody of the Dallas Police" see Crossfire pg 354 Bernard Haire allegations/Bernie's Hobby House next to Texas Theater. Put those two together and you are beginning to see what could be a somewhat sophisticated black-op which fortunately was witnessed at one of it's most critical moments.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Robert Howard