Is anyone interested in Apollo missions...

[Scott Deitche]

“the quick destruction of evidence (the steel debris. Shades of JFK's limo);”

A lot of the steel was taken quickly from the site, where mob-backed waste disposers derailed the steel on its way to the legitimate dump site and instead brought it ot their own chop shops to recycle and resell. Pretty sick, even for a wiseguy.

[Len Colby]

"the quick destruction of evidence (the steel debris. Shades of JFK's limo);"

A lot of the steel was taken quickly from the site, where mob-backed waste disposers derailed the steel on its way to the legitimate dump site and instead brought it ot their own chop shops to recycle and resell. Pretty sick, even for a wiseguy.

Scott that's interesting. Can you refer us to a link that discusses this?

One thing that the people who complain about the steel removal fail to take into account is that there wasn't a lot of spare space in the NYC area for thousands of cubic feet of debris.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

There is of course at least one important aspect in which 911, is the polar oposite of 11/22/63. War, when LBJ tasks Warren with heading the committee that investigates the assassination he uses the words"You could be responsible for saving 40 million lives Earl"in other words, dont find any links to Cuba, or the USSR. 911, on the other hand, was used as instant justification for the ludicrous, and deadly "war on terror"I believe the Bush administration simply used an event, that was already in the works, to justify their noxious empire biulding. Nice to see how well the project is progressing, is it not...

[Douglas Caddy]

Autopsy: No Arabs on Flight 77

By Thomas R. Olmsted, M.D

Originally published 07/6/03. Updated 9/28/06

Sierra Times

Please click on the link below and then click on the images to read the official documents

that accompany the article:

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/07/02/article_tro.htm

Now Updated: No Arabs on Flight 77: Part II -The Passengers

I am an ex Naval line officer and a psychiatrist in private practice in New Orleans, a Christian and homeschool dad. It troubled me a great deal that we rushed off to war on the flimsiest of evidence. I considered various ways to provide a smoking gun of who and why Sept 11th happened. Astute observers noticed right away that there were no Arabic sounding names on any of the flight manifests of the planes that “crashed” on that day.

FOIA Cover Page

A list of names on a piece of paper is not evidence, but an autopsy by a pathologist, is. I undertook by FOIA request, to obtain that autopsy list and you are invited to view it below. Guess what? Still no Arabs on the list. It is my opinion that the monsters who planned this crime made a mistake by not including Arabic names on the original list to make the ruse seem more believable.

When airline disasters occur, airlines will routinely provide a manifest list for anxious families. You may have noticed that even before Sep 11th, that airlines are pretty meticulous about getting an accurate headcount before takeoff. It seems very unlikely to me, that five Arabs sneaked onto a flight with weapons.

This is the list provided by American of the 56 passengers:

On September 27th, the FBI published photos of the “hijackers” of Flight 77:

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP), does a miraculous job and identified nearly all the bodies on November 16th 2001.

Official Autopsy List - Page 2

The AFIP suggest these numbers; 189 killed, 125 worked at the Pentagon and 64 were “passengers” on the plane. The AA list only had 56 and the list just obtained has 58. They did not explain how they were able to tell “victims” bodies from “hijacker” bodies. In fact, from the beginning NO explanation has been given for the extra five suggested in news reports except that the FBI showed us the pictures to make up the difference, and that makes it so.

Now, being the trusting sort, I figured that the government would want to quickly dispel any rumors so we could get on with the chore of kicking Osama/Sadaam’s butt (weren’t these originally two different people?). It seemed simple to me. . .produce the names of all the bodies identified by the AFIP and compare it with the publicized list of passengers. So, I sent a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to the AFIP and asked for an expedited response, because we were getting ready to send our boys to war on the pretext that Osama/Sadaam had done the deed. Fourteen months later, a few US soldiers dead, many Iraqi civilians pushing up daisies, and I finally get the list. Believe me that they weren’t a bit happy to give it up, and I really have no idea why they choose now to release it.

Official Autopsy List - Page 2

No Arabs wound up on the morgue slab; however, three ADDITIONAL people not listed by American Airline sneaked in. I have seen no explanation for these extras. I did give American the opportunity to “revise” their original list, but they have not responded. The new names are: Robert Ploger, Zandra Ploger, and Sandra Teague. The AFIP claims that the only “passenger” body that they were not able to identify is the toddler, Dana Falkenberg, whose parents and young sister are on the list of those identified. The satanic masterminds behind this caper may be feeling pretty smug about the perfect crime, but they have left a raft of clues tying these unfortunates together. Stay tuned for part two to take a much closer look of the cast of characters on this ill-fated flight.

Click on Images for Full Size Graphic

[Owen Parsons]

This is a myth. Arab bodies were recovered.

Edited September 28, 2006 by Owen Parsons

[Len Colby]

This is a myth. Arab bodies were recovered.

Damn Owen ya beat me to iT .

More from the same site

LOL

All this was explained long ago.

The hijackers were not identified because the medical examiner didn’t have DNA samples from relatives for comparison. The passenger manifestos Olmsted refers to are really victims lists complied from media reports (which explains a few discrepancies) which specifically excluded the names of the hijackers who murdered them.

http://www.911myths.com/html/missing_arabs.html

http://www.911myths.com/html/autopsy_list.html

http://www.911myths.com/html/cnn_passenger_lists.html

The Boston Globe obtained the official manifestos of the two Boston flights and the names of the hijackers are on them

http://www.911myths.com/html/passenger_manifests.html

[Ron Ecker]

Len,

I must say that the extent of your 9/11 research is impressive. Do you do this for a living? (How?) Are you planning to write a book, or are you in the process? If not, I think you should. I for one would like to read it. (In an English edition, though, not Portuguese.)

Ron

[Nathaniel Heidenheimer]

"the quick destruction of evidence (the steel debris. Shades of JFK's limo);"

A lot of the steel was taken quickly from the site, where mob-backed waste disposers derailed the steel on its way to the legitimate dump site and instead brought it ot their own chop shops to recycle and resell. Pretty sick, even for a wiseguy.

Scott that's interesting. Can you refer us to a link that discusses this?

One thing that the people who complain about the steel removal fail to take into account is that there wasn't a lot of spare space in the NYC area for thousands of cubic feet of debris.

Im wondering how this would sound as a reason for the destruction of evidence for any OTHER crime. It amazes me that people will accept this type of reasoning. I am beginning to think it is based on something like this quasi-conscious "reasoning": the tweedy professors and other possessors of high status knowledge are ducking this 9/11 wave, so I better too, or people will call me one of those UFO believing types at work and their middle class eyebrows will start doing the wave whenever I walk into the luchroom" The level of mental conformity in the face of such a blatantly fraudulent initial investigation of 9/11 is truly amazing-- what are we on, our fourth NORAD timeline now FOR AN EVENT THAT WAS USED TO INAUGURATE WORLD WAR THREE..... and still the tweedy left professors, comforted by thier nation Magazines, continued teaching gender theory in the films of the 1970s.

[Len Colby]

That comment was basically added as an after thought. Nathaniel missed the part where I said the quick destruction of steel was largely a myth.

The steel wasn’t removed as quickly as the “inside jobbers” make out. The last steel wasn’t even removed from Ground Zero until 8 ½ months after the attacks

http://www.wndu.com/news/052002/news_14322.php

During this period numerous volunteers as well as emergency personnel and construction crews etc had access to GZ. Many of the clean up workers came from controlled demolition companies. I don’t know of any reporting they saw anything suspicious.

A controlled demolition expert said “Our team, working at Ground Zero, including myself, never saw indication of explosive use that would have been evident after the event, You just can’t clean up all the det cord, shock tube, blasting cap remnants, copper backing from explosive charges, burn marks along clean-cut edges of columns, etc., nor is there any evidence in the thousands of photos taken by the press and dozens of agencies over the following days. I just can’t see how it happened that way.” http://www.wconline.com/CDA/Archive/24ae78...000f932a8c0____

An architect who doubts “the official story” who visited GZ a few weeks after -11 report he extensively examined and photographer structural steel from the towers and saw “no signs of melting” http://www.angelfire.com/ult/znewz1/wtc.htmlh

A Professor of structural engineering at the University of California Berkeley who study the collapses said he was given full access to wreckage of the towers http://www.designnews.com/article/CA636342...ndustryid=43653

The same controlled demolition expert quoted above spoke to the people who handled the steel and the told him there was no undue rush to remove the steel from GZ or the landfills where numerous forensic engineers and others had access to it. http://www.jod911.com/WTC%20COLLAPSE%20STU...rd%208-8-06.pdf pg. 8

Exerts who had access to the debris at the Fresh Kills Landfill came from 24 local, state, and federal agencies including 1000 FBI agents specially trained in evidence recovery from 55 cities. But hey they were all probably in on it. http://www.fbi.gov/page2/nov03/nyhs112703.htm

Dr W. Gene Corley, head of the American Society of Civil Engineers / Structural Engineers Association of New York ASCE / SEAoNY) Building Performance Assessment Team (BPAT), which produced the so called FEMA Report told the House of Representatives:

“There has been some concern expressed by others that the work of the team has been hampered because debris was removed from the site and has subsequently been processed for recycling. This is not the case. The team has had full access to the scrap yards and to the site and has been able to obtain numerous samples. At this point there is no indication that having access to each piece of steel from the World Trade Center would make a significant difference to understanding the performance of the structures".

www.house.gov/science/hearings/full02/mar06/corley.htm

The National Fire Protection Association, the Society of Fire Protection Engineers also participated in that initial study. Did any of the numerous highly qualified structural, civil and fire engineers from the ASCE, SEAoNY, NFPA or SFPE who participated in that study complain that inadequate access to the steel hampered their report? No. A few engineer who did not participate in that study the recyling of the steel compromised the final result but none of them challenged the collapse theory. One of them assistant fire chief, professor of fire science and (former) associate editor of Fire Engineering magazine Glenn Corbett worked on the more comprehensive NIST Report (also with about 200 other engineers most of who didn’t work for NIST or other federal agencies. Another was Corbett’s boss at the magazine, former chief editor Bill Manning (who isn’t a fire a engineer but a journalist) but he welcomed the NIST report.

http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Dis..._NUM=1&p=25

Over 1300 pieces of steel from the towers are still in a hanger at JFK Airport where I believe they are fairly available for inspection.

http://www.amny.com/entertainment/news/am-...gallery?index=1

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/NISTNCSTAR1-3BDraft.pdf

The theory that a combination of impact and fire damage caused the towers to collapse has yet to be challenged by anyone with relevant expertise and has been back by literally hundreds of highly qualified engineers.

For all the talk of people who believe just about every CT under the sun that they are free of mental conformity normally the exact opposite is true. Instead of conforming mentally to what they hear on Fox and see on other “MSM outlets” they do so with the CT cites they spend so much time on. It doesn’t seem to occur to them to independently verify what they read on them.

Nathaniel your coworkers and the "tweedy professors" you so disdain are right.

Len

[John J. McCarthy]

http://johnmccarthy90066.tripod.com/id472.html

http://johnmccarthy90066.tripod.com/id807.html

ID807 provides no finger pointing, just the facts captured on film, no less, of the destructive results to the material in the WTC Towers. This is the focus of Part 1. Part 2 and 3 are soon to be released. I would suggest that anyone who listens and adhears to the governments 911 CT to take an open minded look at the information in this work.

Interestingly enough, the Department of Justice uses the standards for circumstantial evidence in the US Judicial system that are available in this material to convince 'reasonable men and women' to render a guilty verdict in matters such as mass murder, or just your everyday homicide.

ID472 provides in part, a visual comparison of an underground nuclear explosion and, in a side by side, the 'collapse' of one of the WTC Towers.

No smoke and mirrors here, folks. Just your everyday circumstancial evidence.

People have been hanged for less.

Bests,

John McCarthy

[Brian Smith]

Professor Steven Jones goes public with his belief that the twin towers were taken down with explosives and is placed on paid leave by the administration of his university. Professor Kevin Barrett goes public with his belief that 911 was an inside job, and is immediately threatened with removal from his teaching post. NIST employee Kevin Ryan goes public with the information that the WTC steel passed Underwriters Laboratories standards, and could not have been weakened by the oxygen deprived fires in the twin towers, and is.......you guessed it - fired.

The claim that all the qualified people in academics support the official story is very deceptive. How many highly qualified people doubt the official story, but have decided to not make their beliefs public for fear of opening themselves up to public ridicule, or possibly losing their jobs? On the other hand, how many of the so-called "experts" who claim to support the official story are really venal shills without a shred of professional integrity? I'm not saying they all are, but a good many of them are.

[John J. McCarthy]

I have often wondered why a person of Arab decent, with lots of cash, would seek flight training in the USA for the stated purpose of only 'flying the plane, not taking off and landing it", rather than taking flying lessons in an Arab country so as not to draw attention to himself. This is really poor trade craft.

It follows that my wonderment is enhanced when it becomes public knowledge that the owners of such facilities notified Field Agents of the FBI on their concerns over these 'suspicious' activities, who, in turn, notify their Washington, DC supervisors of these concerns, which is the protocol in such situations.

It gets dicier when public knowledge provides us with the fact that no response was forthcoming from Washington FBI Hq on these inquiries.

It gets damn warm when public knowledge provides us with the fact that the FBI Field Agents who travelled to FBI Hq AFTER 911, found their initial reports of concern MODIFIED and relegated to file '13', the dead file, because the 'modified' report which finally made it to the decision makers did not contain the essential elements of information required for action to be taken, as in the request for permission to search one of the laptops mentioned in the initial inquiry.

And this is no conspiracy theory. These are just the facts as reported by the pissed off Special Agents who to this day have not been able to find out who the great 'modifier' is, or whose orders he was acting upon.

But, then again, it took about sixty years to find out, from a death bed statement, that a notorious FBI agent had summarily executed Pretty Boy Floyd as he lay wounded in a cornfield in Indiana. And it took over thirty years to convict the Special Agent in charge of the Boston Office of the FBI for CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT MURDER on not just a few alleged Mafia types re Whitey Bolger, but I digress.

And yet, the government would have us believe that someone in a cave, in South Asia, had the capacity to send a group of folks to board aircraft without providing ID (just try it sometime) nor having their names on any manifest, and have the capability to place exposives in the WTC and fly a plane (?) into the Pentagon that has elluded all cameras in the vicinity, and stealthfully creating a hole smaller than itself and leaving the first floor ceiling intact and photographed after the fact.

No consiracy theory here, folks, just the facts. But these facts never made it to the Senate Select Committee investigating 911, for some reason. The question is why, thats all.

Oh, my.

Bests,

John McCarthy

[Sid Walker]

I have often wondered why a person of Arab decent, with lots of cash, would seek flight training in the USA for the stated purpose of only 'flying the plane, not taking off and landing it", rather than taking flying lessons in an Arab country so as not to draw attention to himself. This is really poor trade craft......

And yet, the government would have us believe that someone in a cave, in South Asia, had the capacity to send a group of folks to board aircraft without providing ID (just try it sometime) nor having their names on any manifest, and have the capability to place exposives in the WTC and fly a plane (?) into the Pentagon that has elluded all cameras in the vicinity, and stealthfully creating a hole smaller than itself and leaving the first floor ceiling intact and photographed after the fact.

No consiracy theory here, folks, just the facts. But these facts never made it to the Senate Select Committee investigating 911, for some reason. The question is why, thats all.

Oh, my.

Bests,

John McCarthy

Well said John.

9-11 is modern day miracle.

Speaking of which, the mass media in particular has performed veritable miracles throughout this entire affar.

Never were so many 'served' so quickly by so few...

The US Government may have been slow off the mark on 9-11... but the mass media was in top gear.

From day one, CNN & co had the 'perpetrators' named and more or less convicted - so Americans knew who to hate before they went to bed on September 11th 2001.

With such remarkable 'intelligence' in the mass media, one wonders why we need spooks at all?

Edited September 30, 2006 by Sid Walker

[Len Colby]

Professor Steven Jones goes public with his belief that the twin towers were taken down with explosives and is placed on paid leave by the administration of his university. Professor Kevin Barrett goes public with his belief that 911 was an inside job, and is immediately threatened with removal from his teaching post.

There are about 30 professors at US colleges and universities who are members of ST911, I know of at least 3 profs who aren’t members of the group who back the inside job theories William Woodward at UNH, Jane Christensen at North Carolina Wesleyan College (who is also a Holocaust denier) and Jane Wood from Clemson (she was a member but quit).

So far AFAIK only Barrett, Jones, Woodward and Christensen have had any trouble. In three cases i.e. all except for Jones the Universities stood by them. Jones teaches at one of the few colleges in America that doesn’t offer tenure, Wood is untenured and Barrett is part-time. Barrett was maintained despite having violated paragraph B of the AAUP’s (American Association of University Professors) guidelines on academic freedom which have been in place since 1940 before he was born:

“Teachers are entitled to full freedom in research and in the publication of the results...Teachers are entitled to freedom in the classroom in discussing their subject, but they should be careful not to introduce into their teaching controversial matter which has no relation to their subject.”

In a 1970 interpretation of the 1940 guidelines the AAUP stated paragraph C

“serves to underscore the need for teachers to avoid persistently intruding material which has no relation to their subject”

Barrett admitted to teaching his 9/11 theories in a folklore class

It could be argued that Jones suspension was covered by this section of the AAUP code

“If the administration of a college or university feels that a teacher has not observed the admonitions of paragraph © of the section on Academic Freedom and believes that the extramural utterances of the teacher have been such as to raise grave doubts concerning the teacher’s fitness for his or her position,”

Paragraph C states

“College and university teachers are citizens, members of a learned profession, and officers of an educational institution. When they speak or write as citizens, they should be free from institutional censorship or discipline, but their special position in the community imposes special obligations. As scholars and educational officers, they should remember that the public may judge their profession and their institution by their utterances. Hence they should at all times be accurate, should exercise appropriate restraint, should show respect for the opinions of others, and should make every effort to indicate that they are not speaking for the institution.[<A href="http://www.aaup.org/AAUP/pubsresearch/policydocs/1940statement.htm#comm4">4]”

[All quotes of the AAUP’s policy from - http://www.aaup.org/AAUP/pubsresearch/poli...ement.htm#comm2 ]

Numerous errors have been pointed out in Jones work.

“NIST employee Kevin Ryan goes public with the information that the WTC steel passed Underwriters Laboratories standards, and could not have been weakened by the oxygen deprived fires in the twin towers, and is.......you guessed it - fired.”

Uuuum, Ryan NEVER worked for NIST he worked for a water testing company that UL bought a few months before 9/11. As stated elsewhere on this forum he was fired for falsely claiming in a public letter on UL letterhead that senior executives at UL backed his position and that the company had tested the steel. His dismissal has nothing to do with academic freedom.

“The claim that all the qualified people in academics support the official story is very deceptive. How many highly qualified people doubt the official story, but have decided to not make their beliefs public for fear of opening themselves up to public ridicule, or possibly losing their jobs?”

Out of 30+ profs one without tenure was suspended with pay. Tenured professors and those who would be commenting with in their areas of expertise and those not bring their beliefs into the classroom would have little to fear. I think you under estimate the integrity of you average professor.

“On the other hand, how many of the so-called "experts" who claim to support the official story are really venal shills without a shred of professional integrity? I'm not saying they all are, but a good many of them are.”

This is a libelous claim you make without any evidence. You don’t have the appropriate expertise to make such a judgment. Hundreds of highly qualified engineers employed by universities, private companies and diverse government agencies worked on the ASCE, NIST and other reports supporting the collapse theory. So far not a single qualified expert from anywhere in the world has publicly challenged it.

From day one, CNN & co had the 'perpetrators' named and more or less convicted - so Americans knew who to hate before they went to bed on September 11th 2001.

With such remarkable 'intelligence' in the mass media, one wonders why we need spooks at all?

IIRC the names were only divulged a day or two after the attacks. On some of the flights stewardess identified the seat numbers of the hijackers. The authorities also found a bag belonging to Atta which wasn't transfered from the Portland flight to flight 11. That's the official story any way. No rmarkable intelligence needed. CNN got the info from the Feds not vice-versa

[Len Colby]

I have often wondered why a person of Arab decent, with lots of cash, would seek flight training in the USA for the stated purpose of only 'flying the plane, not taking off and landing it", rather than taking flying lessons in an Arab country so as not to draw attention to himself. This is really poor trade craft.

Provide a citation that any of the hijackers said that was his stated purpose. It is my understanding that admission to the few flight schools in Arab counties is hard to gain. According to the 9/11 Commission report they did intelligence gathering while learning to fly. 2 birds 1 stone.

"It gets damn warm when public knowledge provides us with the fact that the FBI Field Agents who travelled to FBI Hq AFTER 911, found their initial reports of concern MODIFIED and relegated to file '13', the dead file, because the 'modified' report which finally made it to the decision makers did not contain the essential elements of information required for action to be taken, as in the request for permission to search one of the laptops mentioned in the initial inquiry."

Citation

"And yet, the government would have us believe that someone in a cave, in South Asia"

A multimillionaire in a cave with decades of experience in guerrilla fighting and terrorism advised bu other university educated aides

"had the capacity to send a group of folks to board aircraft without providing ID (just try it sometime)"

they had ID

"nor having their names on any manifest"

There names were on the manifests

"and have the capability to place exposives in the WTC"

they didn't place explosives

"and fly a plane (?) into the Pentagon that has elluded all cameras in the vicinity,"

It was captured by 2 cameras, provide evidence it should have been captured by others

"and stealthfully creating a hole smaller than itself"

A 75 foot hole, enough to accommodate the plane past the engines. What do think is stronger an aluminum wing or a blast proof limestone fronted, reinforced concrete wall?

"and leaving the first floor ceiling intact and photographed after the fact."

Please provide photo and citation. How much of the plane do expect to be left after the crash?

"No consiracy theory here, folks, just the facts. But these facts never made it to the Senate Select Committee investigating 911, for some reason. The question is why, thats all."

Because you got your facts wrong.

Edited October 1, 2006 by Len Colby