South Knoll Witness: Mr. Plumlee

[Anthony DeFiore]

Mr. Plumlee, I really hope that you might let me know why you and Mr. Smith climbed the hill on the South Knoll (No small feat!) and proceeded over the train tracks and down the embankment to your car when you were walking on the sidewalk after the assassination (Talking to the man in the pickup ~ I think you posted this a while ago here). Wouldn't it have been just as easy to walk on the sidewalk under the triple underpass to the parking lot/ Thank for posting

[John Dolva]

my understanding is that he walked down from where he stood along a path about halfway up the slope diagonally up to the tracks around the abutment across the rails and to the carpark beyond.

[Anthony DeFiore]

But why did he walk up the embankment, cross busy rail tracks, slide down the other embankment to his car and not simply walk on the sidewalk which was easier to reach his car?

His positioning when the assassination occurred would have made it simple to walk the sidewalk to his car (Under the overpass). It had rained in Dallas that morning of the assassination. The shaded grass area may have been still wet or muddy ground. I tried to walk "down" ther S Knoll embankment to Commerce street and nearly fell twice on slick grass after a morning dew. To go up or down the thing is tricky at best.

I hope Mr. Plumlee can post.

my understanding is that he walked down from where he stood along a path about halfway up the slope diagonally up to the tracks around the abutment across the rails and to the carpark beyond.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

my understanding is that he walked down from where he stood along a path about halfway up the slope diagonally up to the tracks around the abutment across the rails and to the carpark beyond.

When I was watching Tosh Plumlee in a documentary he said that same thing. After the JFK assassination, he walked back up the slope diagonally to - I think a small fence? - then up to the tracks then over to his car.

I do believe Tosh Plumlee's story, but it would be interesting to see if there are any photos in real time of the South Knoll as the 1963 Coup d'Etat was occurring. It also makes me really think that Johnny Roselli was not involved in an *abort mission* but rather involved in the JFK assassination itself, possibly as a shooter.

[Anthony DeFiore]

Thanks for the post. I was just reading your book last night!

I am sure Mr.Plumlee is describing what he did. I just want to know why he did it. It just seems to me that walking on the sidewalk under the overpass to his car is a heckuva lot easier to do. (with Mr. Smith no less) I don't like messing with trains; it's like messing with Mack Trucks on highways. And the embankment on the opposite of the S Knoll is rather steep and difficult to traverse. There were also steps on the opposite side (similar to the ones Ed Hoffman describes) that were in use in 1963. I wonder why he didn't use them as well. Just wondering.

Seems like the photo of possibly morales and rosselli near the corner of Houston & Elm could be true. And in the words of Sonny Corleone...well let's just say Michael Corleone was the marine sharp shooter in that family. Bobby Bacala ~ "Not for nothin, but that ain't the way you do it."

P.S. All the way with LBJ! I agree completely.

my understanding is that he walked down from where he stood along a path about halfway up the slope diagonally up to the tracks around the abutment across the rails and to the carpark beyond.

When I was watching Tosh Plumlee in a documentary he said that same thing. After the JFK assassination, he walked back up the slope diagonally to - I think a small fence? - then up to the tracks then over to his car.

I do believe Tosh Plumlee's story, but it would be interesting to see if there are any photos in real time of the South Knoll as the 1963 Coup d'Etat was occurring. It also makes me really think that Johnny Roselli was not involved in an *abort mission* but rather involved in the JFK assassination itself, possibly as a shooter.

Edited June 4, 2011 by Anthony DeFiore

[John Dolva]

maybe he preferred to stay in the shade. In another post I had a fairly detailed discussion (a shot from the south? ) with William on getting his location and looking at aerials and the cancellare as it is/was, mapping his movements and the tracks were different and his description of the rail tracks and the track he took was a track, then a diagonal cut to the right to clear the exchanges and easily climb the gravel track base then across around the other sides abutment and down a track to the other carpark, a convenient short cut if you will. Remember the speed and number of trains and tracks was diffferent.

edit:mistakes

Edited June 4, 2011 by John Dolva

[Cliff Varnell]

I do believe Tosh Plumlee's story, but it would be interesting to see if there are any photos in real time of the South Knoll as the 1963 Coup d'Etat was occurring. It also makes me really think that Johnny Roselli was not involved in an *abort mission* but rather involved in the JFK assassination itself, possibly as a shooter.

Or possibly as a courier. A messenger.

"Our friends in New York want us to hold off for now, Mr. Murchison."

"The answer is no."

"I came in with an abort team."

"So? We've been feeding them bull for months thru George Bush. They don't know where our teams are, I guarantee you."

Something like that, perhaps?

I find Tosh Plumlee's account compelling, in any case.

Edited June 4, 2011 by Cliff Varnell

[Anthony DeFiore]

Your questions and ideas are precisely why I am hoping Mr. Plumlee will post.

maybe he preferred to stay in the shade. In another post I had a fairly detailed discussion (a shot from the south? ) with William on getting his location and looking at aerials and the cancellare as it is/was, mapping his movements and the tracks were different and his description of the rail tracks and the track he took was a track, then a diagonal cut to the right to clear the exchanges and easily climb the gravel track base then across around the other sides abutment and down a track to the other carpark, a convenient short cut if you will. Remember the speed and number of trains and tracks was diffferent.

edit:mistakes

[Anthony DeFiore]

S KNOLL shooter position and angle.

jfkassassinationwarning.blogspot.com

maybe he preferred to stay in the shade. In another post I had a fairly detailed discussion (a shot from the south? ) with William on getting his location and looking at aerials and the cancellare as it is/was, mapping his movements and the tracks were different and his description of the rail tracks and the track he took was a track, then a diagonal cut to the right to clear the exchanges and easily climb the gravel track base then across around the other sides abutment and down a track to the other carpark, a convenient short cut if you will. Remember the speed and number of trains and tracks was diffferent.

edit:mistakes

[Doug Weldon]

my understanding is that he walked down from where he stood along a path about halfway up the slope diagonally up to the tracks around the abutment across the rails and to the carpark beyond.

When I was watching Tosh Plumlee in a documentary he said that same thing. After the JFK assassination, he walked back up the slope diagonally to - I think a small fence? - then up to the tracks then over to his car.

I do believe Tosh Plumlee's story, but it would be interesting to see if there are any photos in real time of the South Knoll as the 1963 Coup d'Etat was occurring. It also makes me really think that Johnny Roselli was not involved in an *abort mission* but rather involved in the JFK assassination itself, possibly as a shooter.

[Doug Weldon]

my understanding is that he walked down from where he stood along a path about halfway up the slope diagonally up to the tracks around the abutment across the rails and to the carpark beyond.

When I was watching Tosh Plumlee in a documentary he said that same thing. After the JFK assassination, he walked back up the slope diagonally to - I think a small fence? - then up to the tracks then over to his car.

I do believe Tosh Plumlee's story, but it would be interesting to see if there are any photos in real time of the South Knoll as the 1963 Coup d'Etat was occurring. It also makes me really think that Johnny Roselli was not involved in an *abort mission* but rather involved in the JFK assassination itself, possibly as a shooter.

[Doug Weldon]

I do not know how to delete my last two posts which I did not finish.

Robert:

If you have followed this at all you would know that the Cancellaire photo of the south knoll was taken immediately after the assassination. In addition, despite what is suggested here it is not difficult to walk up the small hill by the south knoll.

Doug Weldon

[Bernice Moore]

HEY THERE DOUG, GOOD TO SEE YOU.......there are a couple of threads that Tosh replied in, on the south side,with much of his information shared, here is one such, a search will inevitably turn up tother......b

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=15526&st=0 SOUTH KNOLL #2 -

[Anthony DeFiore]

Bernice, I'm new here and defer to expertise when I encounter it ~ yours. Thank you for the thread. Tony DeFiore

HEY THERE DOUG, GOOD TO SEE YOU.......there are a couple of threads that Tosh replied in, on the south side,with much of his information shared, here is one such, a search will inevitably turn up tother......b

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=15526&st=0 SOUTH KNOLL #2 -

[Bernice Moore]

my understanding is that he walked down from where he stood along a path about halfway up the slope diagonally up to the tracks around the abutment across the rails and to the carpark beyond.

FWIW; John, i cannot come up with the other link but, i find many i have copied, many posts within the files, here is a reply to you from Tosh, dated Oct 22.06.this may explain for some, exactly what he stated,,,b

oct 22/06 tosh.. Thats about right. Remember, the time is estimated but I am sure it was =

not much longer that what I have estimated. When we got to the RR tracts =

we had to angle to the north slightly so as to miss all the switching =

tracks. We went down the hill on the other side at about the end of the =

west side of the south end of the underpass. To cross these tracks was =

slower than we wanted. We had to sort of jump over some of the switching =

rails so we did not get our feet hung in the v shapes of the switching =

tracks.

I think we were just behind the south knoll shooter who might have went =

back into the south parking lot just before we got to the tracks. I =

believe he shot from the south end behind the concrete wing that angles =

toward the east, therefore blocking his view from anyone on the =

northeast side of the underpass. I did not notice anyone on the west =

side of the north side of the underpass who may have seen us cross over. =

However, I was not really looking.

This post has been edited by William Plumlee: Yesterday, 11:30 PM

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<DIV class=3Dquotetop>QUOTE(John Dolva @ Oct 22 2006, 03:11 PM) <A=20

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"><BR><!--QuoteEnd--></DIV><!--QuoteEEnd--><BR><BR>Thats=20

about right. Remember, the time is estimated but I am sure it was not =

much=20

longer that what I have estimated. When we got to the RR tracts we had =

to angle=20

to the north slightly so as to miss all the switching tracks. We went =

down the=20

hill on the other side at about the end of the west side of the south =

end of the=20

underpass. To cross these tracks was slower than we wanted. We had to =

sort of=20

jump over some of the switching rails so we did not get our feet hung in =

the v=20

shapes of the switching tracks.<BR><BR>I think we were just behind the =

south=20

knoll shooter who might have went back into the south parking lot just =

before we=20

got to the tracks. I believe he shot from the south end behind the =

concrete wing=20

that angles toward the east, therefore blocking his view from anyone on =

the=20

northeast side of the underpass. I did not notice anyone on the west =

side of the=20

north side of the underpass who may have seen us cross over. However, I =

was not=20

really looking.

Edited June 5, 2011 by Bernice Moore