LBJ, Hoover and the Cuban Operation

[John Simkin]

In a telephone conversation on 28th November, 1963, LBJ asked Hoover if Oswald "was connected to the Cuban operation". Hoover definitely knew what LBJ was talking about and replied "that is what we are trying to nail down now". What was the Cuban operation that LBJ and Hoover were talking about?

[Guest Stephen Turner]

john, could they have been using a generic term for Northwoods, Bay of Pigs, and the general harassment of Castro. Just a thought.

[Tim Gratz]

Great post, John!

I had not noticed that before.

Certainly seems it might tie into the Waldron thesis.

It is my belief (no hard evidence) that the Oswald trip to Mexico City was tied to a U.S. intelligence operation against Cuba. Of course, the conspirators could easily have used it to try to tie Oswald to Castro.

[Gerry Hemming]

Great post, John!

I had not noticed that before.

Certainly seems it might tie into the Waldron thesis.

It is my belief (no hard evidence) that the Oswald trip to Mexico City was tied to a U.S. intelligence operation against Cuba. Of course, the conspirators could easily have used it to try to tie Oswald to Castro.

----------------------------

And since LHO never went to Mex/D.F. in his entire life; it MUST have been made in reference to the 1963

Cuban "Thanksgiving Turkey Operation" [which Cubans never bothered to celebrate]; or LBJ's Gall Stone "Operation" -- WAIT ! Now I've got it, they were discussing Fidel's hernia surgery !!

Get real !! "Queen" Hoover had been "trying" to keep LBJ "Up-to-Speed" on RFK's every move, and especially with reference to the Fidel shooter & road-watcher teams. That is, about a mere 10% of Bobby's operations, because Siragusa's snitches ["Benny" de Torres, "Gito" Del Valle, Mariano Faget, Esteban Ventura, Carol, Masferrer, et al.] had failed miserably in "connecting-the-dots" on what the CIA crypto'd as AM/TRASH !!

[However, and during 1963: LBJ was much more interested in what information he could garner about RFK's ongoing 'criminal" investigation against LBJ; especially worrisome since: Bobby's "Guys" had "doubled" Walter Jenkins and some other LBJ intimates !!]

However, with a little help from Valdez & Piniero in Habana, Trafficante was indeed able to "fill-in" just a few of the "gaps" !!

ALL of the FBI pogues [including those employed by CIA] were prohibited from generating any "302s" whatsoever, and ALL of said Intel on the RFK Op went into the "Division-9" files as old fashioned "wire" (NOT tape) recordings -- using a telephone-type "scrambler" handset during the making of the "Brief-Notes".

[Too bad that neither the "Church/Tower/Rockefeller" committees, the HSCA, nor the A.R.R.B. had the guts to demand these "wire" recordings -- about which, they were bamboozled into believing were just more "telephone wire taps" -- and therefore, much too voluminous to spend time or money upon.]

NO "18-minute gaps" to be found anywhere, especially when reviewed by JJA just after his alleged "firing" by DCI Colby; nor later by Jack Mohr -- when he "thought" that he had recovered [and secreted] all of the Hoover "Confidential Files"; and immediately post-mortem the "Queen's" demise !!

Chairs,

GPH

________________________

[Thomas Graves]

It is my belief (no hard evidence) that the Oswald trip to Mexico City was tied to a U.S. intelligence operation against Cuba. Of course, the conspirators could easily have used it to try to tie Oswald to Castro.

______________________________________

Mr. Gratz,

Never mind.

Sincerely, Thomas

______________________________________

Edited November 23, 2005 by Thomas Graves

[Mark Knight]

A query for Gerry:

Would you have any idea whether or not these "wire" recordings have survived, lo these many years hence?

If so, could they possibly be accessed through any means? [FOI lawsuit?] If so, possibly by whom? [Who might have sufficient standing, in whatever capacity, to access the info?]

Or am I poking a stick into a hornets' nest here?

[Gerry Hemming]

A query for Gerry:

Would you have any idea whether or not these "wire" recordings have survived, lo these many years hence?

If so, could they possibly be accessed through any means? [FOI lawsuit?] If so, possibly by whom? [Who might have sufficient standing, in whatever capacity, to access the info?]

Or am I poking a stick into a hornets' nest here?

-------------------------------

Mark:

As I stated, Jack Mohr told his cohorts that he had recovered and "secreted" Hoover's confidential files. It didn't take long for some folks to figure out that: If "indeed", he now controlled "in-toto" this horde of "black-mail" material, then most of those who constantly suffered under "Queen" Hoover's threats -- would now be expected to "cow-tow" to the new "Curator of the Crown Jewels"!!

This very thought struck panic into the hearts of certain politicians (mostly those who were guilty of "venal", not "mortal" sins]; but for those who were "close to the seats of power" -- Things didn't look so good.

Included in this "primo" group of "patriots" -- were those absolutely corrupt federal, state, and municipal politicos (and certain military "Honchos"). They all immediately hit the panic button and began to feverishly "thrash about in the bushes"!!

Some very bright folks on the 4th floor at Langley decided to run a little test on Mohr's main "claims to fame". He had a certain "weakness", and this was used to bring him into several closed social events; where he had previously boasted of his new ill-gotten "powers".

The CIA guys, having previously discovered exactly how Hoover was "storing" said files, spent weeks setting Mohr up at a locale where the $64 question could be posed.

This, in and of itself -- was an extremely innocent set of (half a dozen "casual") questions. One was: "....Jack...aren't you allergic to all of the mold and dust which has accumulated in these old file cabinets and boxes...??!! "...Jack...one would think that only a very few close associates would have been permitted access to those files...so hell...I imagine that some went untouched for years..and have most likely degrade..??!!

His first response just about answered the question: The original suspicions as to: Did he really have the files, was suddenly moot, just like water evaporating into a cloud of steam, rises and blows away. The very next task was to determine IF he had even seen any of the files.

Over a period of weeks, he always answered casually, to these seemingly innocent questions, as he felt that they were of no real consequence. Then he made the fatal error of describing how he had held specific files in his hands. And moreover, that while most of the samples read were serious subject matter -- oftentimes they were outrageously funny !! That was his ultimate and fatal blunder.

Mohr, on more than one occasion had insisted that: His biggest worry was NOT, that his secret cache hiding place might be discovered, but that his greatest fear was more along the line of his getting a serious infection from a simple paper cut, which might put him in the hospital. How courageous indeed was this genuine "Patriot" !!

A "Voice Stress Analyser" (P.S.E.) was used during two of these sessions, and as expected -- he showed absolutely no stress when referring to the "paper cut" worries. This spoke volumes, and it was decidedly obvious that Mohr didn't even have the slightest idea of the format or composition of "his" files.

While I was working on the "Dark Side of Camelot" project, and in a conversation about Hoover's having had "the goods" on most of the "Kennedy Clan" -- I mentioned that: Should a person "accidently" come across just a portion of these files, wouldn't they serve to verify that either Hoover was bluffing, or he actually "had the goods" ??!!

The response was: That this "illegal blackmail" material could be presumed as being "highly classified" data, and even getting near it could invite a federal indictment or two. And moreover, it was still quite possible that some of the "powerful folks" [who might still be sweating out Jack Mohr's bullxxxx tales] -- could become pissed-off enough to take "precautions" ??!! Especially precautions of a degree a tad higher than just "damage control" -- Like actual physical violence !!

Later, and presuming that they had "run-it-past-the-lawyers" at ABC; within a week -- they said that we might as well "go for it !!" -- even if we decide later that we can't use any of it on the air.

I had recounted the story of a prisoner in a lock-up [1976] who had made urgent efforts trying to contact Mitch WerBell -- had eventually drawn me down the into the "Intrigue Alley". When the convict got the message that "Mitch III" wasn't interested in autograph seekers or "groupies"; he cautiously explained that WerBell and he had done a lot of business together. And more importantly, that the mere mention of his name would result in "instant" efforts by WerBell to locate him.

When"Mitch II" was apprised of this dude's urgent desire to make contact; his response was of an "excited" voice, urging that immediate measures be taken to arrange a meet. WerBell indicated that this was a "really important" person, and that he had been frustrated for months in his own attempts at locating this guy.

"..Where the hell is he...and how soon can you set up a meet..??!! I explained that this character was not available locally, and that it might take a few weeks to get through to him. Mitch III responded: "...Well...I guess that this guy took my advice and got the hell out of the country...??!! I responded that indeed it was something like that.

After casually inquiring as to the "great importance" of any dealings with this character, he vaguely mentioned that this guy has some critical documents. And that anybody with the right connections could either "name-his-price", or even better yet -- "Do a Hoover on a bunch of very vulnerable VIPs up in Washington" !!

Needless to say, this didn't clue me in on "zip". I decided that during the next conversation with this guy (using a cut-out] -- I would insure that sometime during the R/V a mention would be made as to "Hoover". And hinting that If the guy couldn't "do the deed" -- then WerBell wasn't interested in even hearing from him at all.

Surprise !! During the very next conversation -- the dude whispered that: WerBell should be informed that he still had the "Hoover Stuff", and that he wanted to either get rid of it -- or as agreed before, transfer ALL of what he had to WerBell. A test question was popped at him, and it concerned the bulkiness & weight of the "load". He correctly answered that these thousands of files didn't weight anything at all, and could be moved in a small van. When that response was passed back to me, I said: "...Correcto Boyo..!!

I was never interested in determining what role WerBell, or for that matter, the Quantum Corp. folks might have had going with this whole scheme. A couple of times, I actually considered sticking my fingers in my ears -- so as to clue WerBell in that: I really didn't have any interest whatsoever in hearing about something which I was never about to involve myself in.

Dribs and drabs over a few weeks, up to "The Farm" at Powder Springs, Georgia, and in my private aircraft -- the usual circuitous route of leisurely flying back to Miami. What I reluctantly pieced together was that when WerBell was first apprised of this cache of Hoover files, he immediately checked with Col. Bob Bayard [later murdered in Atlanta] and ultimately with Col. Lucien Conein.

Both had advised WerBell to absolutely stay away from this crap !! But, when he persisted (and reinforced by certain financiers); he was told to put this character to a specific Q & A test -- with a focus on the size and weight, or even the appearance of said files.

When WerBell passed the results of the "test' on to Lou Conein and Bayard, they both agreed that indeed this guy must have at least a portion of the "goods" under his control.

When Jennings and Hersh passed the word down to Ft. Lauderdale -- to "have a go at it", I reminded them that it would take a few days to locate this clown. After that, I would need at least 4 days [and some airline tickets] to perform this "feat". I informed them of the need of expense money, but that I didn't want it sent to me immediately. I wanted that to await untill I was close to the "subject-of-interest". Then it should be wire-transferred via a law firm only. [Nothing like doing investigations for lawyers to cover one's ass !!]

I located the dude out West, and had the travel agent route me the long way around. Thus I ended up spending a few days staying at Noel Twyman's "gated community" estate. [Nothing like keeping the surveillance down to a minimum]

While at Twyman's, we spent a couple of days going over his files & "galleys" for "Bloody Treason". He later insisted that: As I continued my journey, that I should use his brand new "Jeep Cherokee". Good idea, and leave at night, and take the long route up to the Los Angeles area.

Once in the L.A. "smog-belt", I stopped by my brother's law offices, and made a few more calls -- and thus pin-pointed, and later set up, a meet with the guy. I decided to parked Twyman's Jeep at my brother's place, rent another "Cherokee" -- and after the funds were wire transferred, start trekking ever onward.

A couple of days later, while meeting with the dude, I opted to pose the very same Q & A test that had been done years before. And again he passed with flying colors. He wanted to know how soon he could unload this stuff -- and was a little curious as to who the parties of interest might be, since WerBell had died some years before ??!!

As expected, his attitude was one of complete indifference. He stated that he had no need for money, but that the travel involved wasn't going to come out of his own pocket. "...No sweat Jose..we'll cover everything..that is...if my contacts are still interested this week...!!" And what did that mean ?? I explained that since we were involved with extremely outdated material, and my contacts already were showing signs of hesitation -- I would get back to him the next day to report whether the "trip-was-on"!!

I wasn't at all surprised when the very next day -- the "Dark Side" folks called a pre-arranged telephone site, stating that: "the-powers-that-be" suddenly wanted nothing to do with this cache !!

The "Big-Ass-Secret" as to why the Langley folks knew that Jack Mohr was lying ?? Well, it seems that "Queen" Hoover, upon inquiring as to the possibilities of reducing the enormous volume of his files -- it was suggested to him that: An exploration of "micro-dot" film recordation techniques might be in order.

Back during the 1960s, "Micro-Fiche" had been developed by CIA using German experts in Frankfurt. So,

when FBI "coolies" inquired of this "Kraut-GMBh" for a price estimate of this [not yet available "to-the-public" commodity] -- Langley gave the "go-ahead". They hoped to "scrounge" some "freebie" FBI files during the processing. But, it didn't work out that way -- as Hoover's goons made damn sure that everything was done in a secure area.

All tape recordings were transcribed, and all files ended up on fibre cards. Weird that even by 1972, Jack Mohr was completely ignorant of the existence of Micro-Fiche ??!!

So, out there somewhere is a small cache of hermetically sealed miltary electronics cases (with dessicant packs attached) -- full of, mostly outdated "Tabloid-Style" materials, and about now -- I could really give a xxxx !!

Chairs,

GPH

______________________

[Tim Gratz]

Now with the publication of "Ultimate Sacrifice" one must wonder if "the Cuban operation" refered to "C-Day" (as Waldron and Hartmann call it). This assumes that LBJ and JEH were "in the loop" on C-Day.

[Mark Knight]

Yet another question for Gerry:

I realize you haven't seen the stuff...but in your opinion, might there be some valuable answers found in this cache of fiche, rather than "just" Dame Edna Hoover's blackmail material? Suggesting here something akin to the revelations found on the Nixon tapes [the fact that Nixon was paranoid and didn't trust the Jews wasn't a revelation, for example; but the fact that he was in on the coverup from the outset WAS valuable].

I'm thinking there just might be some explosive material re: the assassination or the coverup, in amongst the stuff that would've ruined the careers of now-long-dead politicos....if only someone with an eye for such evidence might be able to examine 'em. Maybe the fiche DOES rot from the head down...

[Ron Ecker]

In a telephone conversation on 28th November, 1963, LBJ asked Hoover if Oswald "was connected to the Cuban operation". Hoover definitely knew what LBJ was talking about and replied "that is what we are trying to nail down now". What was the Cuban operation that LBJ and Hoover were talking about?

John,

I think you must mean the conversation of November 29. Hoover tells LBJ, "This angle in Mexico is giving us a great deal of trouble because the story there is of this man Oswald getting $6,500 from the Cuban embassy and then coming back to this country with it." (Hoover is no doubt referring to the story told by Gilberto Alvarado, which Alvarado later admitted was false.) Then later, when LBJ is summing up the conversation, LBJ says, "whether (Oswald) was connected with the Cuban operation with money, you're trying to - " And Hoover says, "That's what we're trying to nail down now."

So what LBJ apparently meant by "the Cuban operation with money" was the story that Hoover had earlier related to him about Oswald being given money at the Cuban embassy, which clearly implied a Cuban operation to get JFK.

Ron

[Mark Stapleton]

Although I've never read the LBJ tapes, I've read so many excerpts from it that I feel I must have read most of it by now. The conversations between Hoover and LBJ remind me of amateur actors reciting a script.

I can't take these two at face value. Don't they both have massive credibility problems?

[Lynne Foster]

In a telephone conversation on 28th November, 1963, LBJ asked Hoover if Oswald "was connected to the Cuban operation". Hoover definitely knew what LBJ was talking about and replied "that is what we are trying to nail down now". What was the Cuban operation that LBJ and Hoover were talking about?

John,

Hoover and Johnson were close friends, they both knew that Oswald was just a patsy, and my best guess is they were talking about Hunts efforts to build a relationship with Oswald and Johnson was wondering about the progression of the relationship, as it related to operations in Cuba.

I have posted somewhat of an elaboration of this speculation

here:

[Lynne Foster]

Notice how legitimate researchers acknowledge that Johnson and Hoover knew that Oswald was just a patsy.

The following memorandum, written by Hoover immediately after his meeting with President Johnson, just seven days after the assassination of President Kennedy, is a remarkable document to say the least. There is much information imparted in the memo regarding just how fluid and unstable the cover story about who killed JFK still was shaping up to be at that time. By analyzing the discrepancies between the story Hoover briefed Johnson about on November 29th, and what the final cover story handed down by the Warren Commission would claim almost a year later, we can better appreciate the degree to which the final "official report" was sculpted to fit the constraints the Commission was forced to adhere to, regardless of the actual facts of the assassination.

Source of above quotation:

[Lynne Foster]

This is the document he is talking about -quite fascinating:

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

WASHINGTON, D.C.

1:39 p.m. November 29, 1963

MEMORANDUM FOR MR. TOLSON

MR. BELMONT

MR. MOHR

MR. CONRAD

MR. DE LOACH

MR. EVANS

MR. ROSEN

MR. SULLIVAN

The President called and asked if I am familiar with the proposed

group they are trying to get to study my report - two from the House,

two from the Senate, two from the courts, and a couple of outsiders. I

replied that I had not heard of that but had seen reports from the

Senate Investigating Committee.

The President stated he wanted to get by just with my file and my

report. I told him I thought it would be very bad to have a rash of

investigations. He then indicated the only way to stop it is to

appoint a high-level committee to evaluate my report and tell the House

and Senate not to go ahead with the investigation. I stated that would

be a three-ring circus.

The President then asked what I think about Allen Dulles, and I

replied that he is a good man. He then asked about John McCloy, and I

stated I am not as enthusiastic about McCloy, that he is a good man but

I am not so certain as to the matter of publicity he might want. The

President then mentioned General (Lauris) Norstad, and I said he is a

good man. He said in the House he might try (Hale) Boggs and (Gerald

R.) Ford and in the Senate (Richard B.) Russell and (John Sherman)

Cooper. I asked him about Cooper and he indicated Cooper of Kentucky

whom he described as a judicial man, stating he would not want (Jacob

K.) Javits. I agreed on this point. He then reiterated Ford of

Michigan, and I indicated I know of him but do not know him and had

never seen him except on television the other day and that he handled

himself well on television. I indicated that I do know Boggs.

Johnson, President Lyndon B.

Assassination of President John F. Kennedy

Presidential Commission on Assassination

of President John F. Kennedy

Security - Presidential

Presidential Conferences

Presidential Travel Security

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Memorandum for Messrs. Tolson, Belmont, Mohr, November 29, 1963

Conrad, DeLoach, Evans, Rosen, Sullivan

The President then mentioned that (Walter) Jenkins had told him that

I have designated Mr. DeLoach to work with them as he had on the Hill.

He indicated they appreciated that and just wanted to tell me they

consider Mr. DeLoach as high class as I do, and that they salute me for

knowing how to pick good men.

I advised the President that we hope to have the investigation

wrapped up today but probably won't have it before the first of the week

as an angle in Mexico is giving trouble - the matter of Oswald's getting

$6500 from the Cuban Embassy and coming back to this country with it;

that we are not able to prove that fact; that we have information he

was there on September 18 and we are able to prove he was in New Orleans

on that date; that a story came in changing the date to September 28

and he was in Mexico on the 28th. I related that the police have again

arrested Duran, a member of the Cuban Embassy; that they will hold her

two or three days; will confront her with the original informant; and

will also try a lie detector test on her.

The President then inquired if I pay any attention to the lie

detector test. I answered that I would not pay 100% attention to them;

that it was only a psychological asset in investigation; that I would

not want to be a part of sending a man to the chair on a lie detector

test. I explained that we have used them in bank investigations and a

person will confess before the lie detector test is finished, more or

less fearful it will show him guilty. I said the lie detector test has

this psychological advantage. I further stated that it is a misnomer to

call it a lie detector since the evaluation of the chart made by the

machine is made by a human being and any human being is apt to make the

wrong interpretation.

I stated, if Oswald had lived and had take a lie detector test, this

with the evidence we have would have added that much strength to the

case; that these is no question he is the man.

I also told him that Rubenstein down there has offered to take a lie

detector test but his lawyer must be consulted first; that I doubt the

lawyer will allow him to do so; that he has a West Coast lawyer

somewhat like the Edward Bennett Williams type and almost as much of a

shyster.

The President asked if we have any relationship between the two

(Oswald and Rubenstein) as yet. I replied that at the present time we have

- 2 -

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Memorandum for Messrs. Tolson, Belmont, Mohr, November 29, 1963

Conrad, DeLoach, Evans, Rosen, Sullivan

not; that there was a story that the fellow had been in Rubenstein's

nightclub but it has not been confirmed. I told the President that

Rubenstein is a very seedy character, had a bad record - street brawls,

fights, etc.; that in Dallas, if a fellow came into his nightclub and

could not pay his bill completely, Rubenstein would beat him up and

throw him out; that he did not drink or smoke; that he was an

egomaniac; that he likes to be in the limelight; knew all of the

police officers in the white light district; let them come in and get

food and liquor, etc.; and that is how I think he got into police

headquarters. I said if they ever made any move, the pictures did not

show it even when they saw him approach and he got right up to Oswald

and pressed the pistol against Oswald's stomach; that neither officer

on either side made any effort to grab Rubenstein - not until after the

pistol was fired. I said, secondly, the chief of police admits he moved

Oswald in the morning as a convenience and at the request of motion

picture people who wanted daylight. I said insofar as tying Rubenstein

and Oswald together, we have not yet done so; that there are a number

of stories which tied Oswald to the Civil Liberties Union in New York in

which he applied for membership and to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee

which is pro-Castro, directed by communists, and financed to some extent

by the Castro Government.

The President asked how many shots were fired, and I told him three.

He then asked if any were fired at him. I said no, that three shots

were fired at the President and we have them. I stated that our

ballistic experts were able to prove the shots were fired by this gun;

that the President was hit by the first and third bullets and the second

hit the Governor; that there were three shots; that one complete

bullet rolled out of the President's head; that it tore a large part of

the President's head off; that in trying to massage his heart on the

way into the hospital they loosened the bullet which fell on the

stretcher and we have that.

He then asked were they aimed at the President. I replied they were

aimed at the President, no question about that.

I further advised him that we have also tested the fact you could

fire those three shots in three seconds. I explained that there is a

story out that there must have been more than one man to fire several

shots but we have proven it could be done by one man.

The President then asked how it happened that Connally was hit. I

explained that Connally turned to the President when the first shot was

fired and in that turning he got hit. The President then asked, if

Connally had not been in his seat, would the President have been hit by

the second shot. I said yes.

- 3 -

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Memorandum for Messrs. Tolson, Belmont, Mohr, November 29, 1963

Conrad, DeLoach, Evans, Rosen, Sullivan

I related that on the fifth floor of the building where we found the

gun and the wrapping paper we found three empty shells that had been

fired and one that had not been fired. that he had four but didn't fire

the fourth; then threw the gun aside; went down the steps; was seen

by a police officer; the manager told the officer that Oswald was all

right, worked there; they let him go; he got on a bus; went to his

home and got a jacket; then came back downtown, walking; the police

officer who was killed stopped him, not knowing who he was; and he

fired and killed the police officer.

The President asked if we can prove that and I answered yes.

I further related that Oswald then walked another two blocks; went

to the theater; the woman selling tickets was so suspicious - said he

was carrying a gun when he went into the theater - that she notified the

police; the police and our man went in and located Oswald. I told him

they had quite a struggle with Oswald but that he was subdued and shown

out and taken to police headquarters.

I advised the President that apparently Oswald had come down the

steps from the fifth floor; that apparently the elevator was not used.

The President then indicated our conclusions are: (1) he is the one

who did it; (2) after the President was hit, Governor Connally was hit;

(3) the President would have been hit three times except for the fact

that Governor Connally turned after the first shot and was hit by the

second; (4) whether he was connected with the Cuban operation with

money we are trying to nail down. I told him that is what we are trying

to nail down; that we have copies of the correspondence; that none of

the letters dealt with any indication of violence or assassination;

that they were dealing with a visa to go back to Russia.

I advised the President that his wife had been very hostile, would

not cooperate and speaks only Russian; that yesterday she said , if we

could give assurance she would be allowed to remain in the country, she

would cooperate; and that I told our agents to give that assurance and

sent a Russian-speaking agent to Dallas last night to interview her. I

said I do not know whether or not she has any information but we would

learn what we could.

The President asked how Oswald had access to the fifth floor of the

building. I replied that he had access to all floors. The President

asked where was his office and I stated he did not have any particular

place; that he

- 4 -

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Memorandum for Messrs. Tolson, Belmont, Mohr, November 29, 1963

Conrad, DeLoach, Evans, Rosen, Sullivan

was not situated in any particular place; that he was just a general

packer of requisitions that came in for books from Dallas schools; that

he would have had proper access to the fifth and sixth floors whereas

usually the employees were down on lower floors. The President then

inquired if anybody saw him on the fifth floor, and I stated he was seen

by one of the workmen before the assassination.

The President then asked if we got a picture taken of him shooting

the gun and I said no. He asked what was the picture sold for $25,000,

and I advised him this was a picture of the parade showing Mrs. Kennedy

crawling out of the back seat; that there was no Secret Service Agent

on the back of the car; that in the past they have added steps on the

back of the car and usually had an agent on either side standing on the

bumper; that I did not know why this was not done - that the President

may have requested it; that the bubble top was not up but I understand

the bubble top was not worth anything because it was made entirely of

plastic; that I had learned much to my surprise that the Secret Service

does not have any armored cars.

The President asked if I have a bulletproof car and I told him I

most certainly have. I told him we use it here for my own use and,

whenever we have any raids, we make use of the bulletproof car on them.

I explained that it is a limousine which has been armorplated and that

it looks exactly like any other car. I stated I think the President

ought to have a bulletproof car; that from all I understand the Secret

Service has had two cars with metal plates underneath the car to take

care of hand grenades or bombs thrown out on the street. I said this is

European; that there have been several such attempts on DeGaulle's

life; but they do not do that in this country; that all assassinations

have been with guns; and for that reason I think very definitely the

President ought to always ride in a bulletproof car; that it certainly

would prevent anything like this ever happening again; but that I do

not mean a sniper could not snipe him from a window if he were exposed.

The President asked if I meant on his ranch he should be in a

bulletproof car. I said I would think so; that the little car we rode

around in when I was at the ranch should be bulletproofed; that it

ought to be done very quietly. I told him we have four bulletproof cars

in the Bureau: one on the West Coast, one in New York and two here. I

said this could be done quietly without publicity and without pictures

taken of it if handled properly and I think he should have one on his

ranch.

- 5 -

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Memorandum for Messrs. Tolson, Belmont, Mohr, November 29, 1963

Conrad, DeLoach, Evans, Rosen, Sullivan

The President then asked if I think all the entrances should be

guarded. I replied by all means, that he had almost to be in the

capacity of a so-called prisoner because without that security anything

could be done. I told him lots of phone calls had been received over

the last four or five days about threats on his life; that I talked to

the Attorney General about the funeral procession from the White House

to the Cathedral; that I was opposed to it. The President remarked

that the Secret Service told them not to but the family wanted to do it.

I stated that was what the Attorney General told me but I was very much

opposed to it. I further related that I saw the procession from the

Capitol to the White House on Pennsylvania and, while they had police

standing on the curbs, when the parade came, the police turned around

and looked at the parade.

The President then stated he is going to take every precaution he

can; that he wants to talk to me; and asked if I would put down my

thoughts. He stated I was more than head of the FBI - I was his brother

and personal friend; that he knew I did not want anything to happen to

his family; that he has more confidence in me than anybody in town;

that he would not embroil me in a jurisdictional dispute; but that he

did want to have my thoughts on the matter to advocate as his own

opinion.

I stated I would be glad to do this for him and that I would do

anything I can. The President expressed his appreciation.

Very truly yours,

[signed J. E. H.]

John Edgar Hoover

Director

[Gerry Hemming]

In a telephone conversation on 28th November, 1963, LBJ asked Hoover if Oswald "was connected to the Cuban operation". Hoover definitely knew what LBJ was talking about and replied "that is what we are trying to nail down now". What was the Cuban operation that LBJ and Hoover were talking about?

John,

I think you must mean the conversation of November 29. Hoover tells LBJ, "This angle in Mexico is giving us a great deal of trouble because the story there is of this man Oswald getting $6,500 from the Cuban embassy and then coming back to this country with it." (Hoover is no doubt referring to the story told by Gilberto Alvarado, which Alvarado later admitted was false.) Then later, when LBJ is summing up the conversation, LBJ says, "whether (Oswald) was connected with the Cuban operation with money, you're trying to - " And Hoover says, "That's what we're trying to nail down now."

So what LBJ apparently meant by "the Cuban operation with money" was the story that Hoover had earlier related to him about Oswald being given money at the Cuban embassy, which clearly implied a Cuban operation to get JFK.

Ron

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"Queen" Hoover quickly "detoured/re-routed" this conversation to the "Alvarado Incident" -- because (s)he knew well that: LBJ's telephone calls were being taped, and that the NSA had a special unit which "bugged" the White House PBX [and a separate "squad" which focused on Oval Office chats]. Whenever LBJ wasn't too goddamn lazy, he would go to the "War Room" [WH] or the "Secure Room" [Old Executive Office Bldg. - now the "Ike" Bldg.] to have what he thought were "Security/Sensitive" conversations, especially when they were multi-party !!

[Check with "Honest" Bill Moyers on that !!]

Robert Emmett Johnson "Ran" Alvarado (an alias name), and this was financed via Somoza. The "bag man" for this, and many other Ops was I. Irving Davidson.

If somebody will come up [copy and paste] the declassified files of my 1965 Dominican Republic Ops, then I will try to answer whatever is answerable. Please, if you haven't done your homework: I will have to respond as I did to Sylvia Chase, and later to Roberta Ostroff ["Fire in The Wind" Dickey Chappelle bio.] during 1988 !! [vis-a-vis H.K. Davis' & my own relationships with Davidson]

Chairs,

GPH

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