Bill Miller

"seen in ALTGENS@255-"dark raincoat man" Elm + Houston at south end of curve of people near northeast corner of Elm & Houston seen in ALTGENS Zf-255 just below BREHM's clapping hands and he seems to be looking towards TSBD; ….TSBD intersection "seen in ALTGENS@255-"intersection boy" Elm + Houston at south end of curve of people near northeast corner of Elm & Houston seen in ALTGENS Zf-255 just below BREHM's clapping hands and he seems to be looking towards TSBD; just behind the rear of the SS-VP car ….TSBD intersection "seen in ALTGENS@255-"intersection woman" Elm + Houston at south end of curve of people near northeast corner of Elm & Houston seen in ALTGENS Zf-255 just below BREHM's clapping hands and he seems to be looking towards TSBD ….TSBD intersection

Greg - I am not saying that it applies to this particular document on Oswald, but there have been false resports/documents filed and placed into the official records which eventually were discovered. I mentioned Tanenbaum and the false report he said was given to the HSCA concerning the nature of the rear head wound to JFK as witnessed by the Bethesda witnesses. Another such misleading report was filed by the Secret Service stating that the damage to the chrome strip above the windshield on the limo possibly occurred prior to the Texas trip. Why such a report was filed when all one needed to do was look at some photos or films of the President's limo as it sat at Love Field on 11/22/63 to know that it was not damaged at that time is beyond me, but someone went ahead and created a false and/or misleading report. So what I am saying is those things apparently did happen from time to time according to the records.

I have been told that a fellow reserarcher did check on the authenticity of that McCone/Rowley document and found it to actually be in the official records. Keep in mind that these documents were not to be seen in our lifetime. This certainly would not be the first time that a large amount of documents were declassified only to find important information within them. If one followed the investigation that Jim Garrison had conducted, then it would come as no surprise that Oswald had CIA and FBI contacts. Lee's ability to get back into the United States without so much as a slap on the wrist for supposidly committing treason is just one example. Withholding Lee's tax records due to National Security should have been another giveaway IMO. I would suggest to any interested parties to contact the NARA and order the document directly from them if they like. While they are at it they might wish to get a copy of a report that Robert Tanenbaum mentioned on one of the latest Men Who Killed Kennedy documentaries where he said that a false report was submitted to the HSCA stating that no one at Bethesda had seen the large hole in the back of the President's head. This obviously became apparent when the actual list of Bethesda personnel surfaced years later showing that each Bethesda witness who saw the President did in fact sign off as noticing the large hole in the back of his head.

Maybe this 3 page document will answer some questions.

The real Bill Miller? Now you sound like Jack White and I thought we were all past that foolishness. You should first try and keep it straight who you are addressing. It was I who answered you in post #59, not Larry. If you cannot keep the simple things straight, then the Kennedy assassination will probably overwhelm you. It certainly would explain the lack of evidentiary value in your replies. However, if you should ever come up with something specific about the Kennedy assassination and it's evidence, feel free to post it. Now about your misstated remark of mine. You said, "Appears any contrary opinion is "stupid and reckless..." a bit disengenuous at best, don't you think?" If one goes back to post #56 and studies the content of that reply they will see that the remark was made over the approach Alan was taking by blowing off information drawn from the original film and choosing to go with a poorer degraded print. There was no mention that his opinion had to coincide with my own, but it is foolish, stupid, reckless, 'of poor choice', or any other phrase I can think of when it comes to not chosing to draw information from the best possible prints available and for that - I stand by my remark.

A Case for Conspiracy - is the only DVD I have of the Bell film. The image I posted was equalized and I removed the glare expansion from the image. The original film at the Museum will be the best print for viewing. The B&W film is the color film without the color. That means it's a step further away from the original, unless just the mode to grayscale was elctronically changed during the transfer. I can do that myself and it will not change the image. I strongly disagree! The moving footage is riddled with frame blur and that is misleading in any film when it comes to movement. That's why I took the cleanest and sharpest frame I could find for consideration. Like I said - the white cap extends forward over the chest and the color of the knoll can be seen underneath it. The cap on the man's head on the walkway has it's sides coming right down the side of the head even with the ears just like an overseas cap does. No matter if he is looking forward or turned to the right - those undeniable observations exclude the Negro in the Bell film as being the man on the walkway image I produced. A Case for Conspiracy - is the only DVD I have of the Bell film. The image I posted was equalized and I removed the glare expansion from the image. The original film at the Museum will be the best print for viewing. The B&W film is the color film without the color. That means it's a step further away from the original, unless just the mode to grayscale was elctronically changed during the transfer. I can do that myself and it will not change the image. I strongly disagree! The moving footage is riddled with motion blur and that is misleading in any film when it comes to movement. That's why I took the cleanest and sharpest frame I could find for consideration. Like I said - the white cap extends forward over the chest and the color of the knoll can be seen underneath it. The cap on the man's head on the walkway has it's sides coming right down the side of the head even with the ears just like an overseas cap does. No matter if he is looking forward or turned to the right - those undeniable observations exclude the Negro in the Bell film as being the man on the walkway image I produced. I'll also address something you posted above. It should have been clear to Gary Mack when I wrote him that I was talking about the man's head for I told him what you were saying about it. Below is the title of the email where I requested him to tell me if the man was in profile or not and I made sure the hat was the issue: Yes, left profile. Gary -----Original Message----- From: IMSJLE@aol.com [mailto:IMSJLE@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 3:09 PM To: GMack@jfk.org Subject: Re: That blasted hat doesn't seem right. In a message dated 9/8/2004 9:53:47 AM Central Daylight Time, GMack@jfk.org writes: Maybe his hat moved as he ran from Houston to the knoll? Can you tell if the guy is in profile or not? Bill (end of email) Today I spoke to Gary again and I pointed out how the hat was sticking out far over the chest area and I discussed the possibilities that would cause this. He then said that he would try to view the film on a larger screen. I have not heard back from him since. Now about the capture: On a human - the neck is set into the latter half of the skull. Whether looking forward or turned to the right - the back of the neck has to meet the top of the rear shirt collar. "IF" the black man in the Bell film is looking off to the right, then one has to explain why his hat protrudes so far west over his chest. What kind of a hat does that other than a Chefs hat? If it is the man that Mack thinks it is, then we could be seeing the flat top of the hat at an angle to the sun. The man on the walkway is not wearing such a hat. That alone excludes the man in the Bell film from being the man I have shown with the wide "V" in the rear. I also think that the image you have produced is absurd! You washed the man out so much that the detail of his clothing is eradicated. The object/hat on the head has lost it's original shape and has now become a perfectly round sphere. I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone to tell you that you have offered a better look at the black man's head cover. You should try to learn some lightening techniques that do not cause the shape of the hat to become distorted from it's original shape for that defeats the purpose of comparing it to the shape of the hat on the man on the walkway. As far as where this man went once he got up on the walkway ... I addressed that in post #50 if my memory is correct.

Alan - when you mentioned the Bell film being on the "A Case for Conspiracy" DVD - I went and found my copy and captured it.

Is the man in the Bell film facing forward or to the right? The reason why I believe the man is facing more in a forward manner is the location of the hat over the trunk of his upper body. The hat protrudes out over his chest. When I plot where his neck would be - then the hat would be pushed far to our left when it has to be afixed to his head. It would seem that if the man turned to his right, then the left and right side of his head should stay pretty close in alignment with his neck. When one wears a hat and is facing forward, then the hat extends out over the neck and chest as the forehead and nose does, as well. I might also add that if this is the black man who was standing along Houston Street near the Rowland's as Gary Mack considers him to be, then his head might be cocked with the flat top part of his hat angled to the sun and this would account for the hat protruding out over the chest area. Regardless, this cannot possibly be confused with the hat on the man I have shown with the wide "V" shape on it's base. As Barry Scheck, one of O.J.Simpson's lawyers, would say ... 'that would not pass the laugh test.'

David - Allow me to address this by working my way backwards through your senseless reply. What does Larry do when he is not banging around on the boards ... I assume he might be giving more thought to his furure replies than what you apparently do. I made the comment about someone being reckless if they thought they could draw more information from a poorer quality image over a much clearer one. That should've been common sense. The circumstantial evidence is over Gordon Arnold, or someone wearing the type of clothing he was said to have on, being seen on the walkway post assassination. It's also circumstantial that such an image is seen in the Moorman photo just pre-assassination as it is circumstantial that two individuals in dark clothing are seen near the tree in the Towner photo post assassination and that Austin Miller saw a young man in his early 20's (Arnold's age) coming from the parking lot only to get stopped and turned away just prior to the motorcade's arrival in Dealey Plaza. These are all things Arnold mentioned that are supported by other independent pieces of evidence. While none of them positively identify Arnold, they do show events that Arnold had claimed to have happened. DA's have gotten convictions on circumstantial evidence. Larry had merely stated that I had always said that while these various indepedntent pieces of evidence were circumstantial, when viewed as a whole they add a strong confirmation that Gordon Arnold did in fact tell the truth as he remembered it.

I have little choice in the matter for Gary Mack has access to the original film which gives him a better image to view than we have. It's almost as if you are bitter that a cleaner sharper image isn't giving off the results that a poorer fuzzier image can offer. If you believe that poorer quality images are more reliable for photo analysis, then you may find it difficult to find others who think as you do. I think that is a stupid and reckless position you've taken and my answer is still the same as above. I believe the best prints should always be used whenever possible for photo or film analysis. I didn't have access to the camera original, so I called the 6th floor Museum and asked Gary Mack to look at the Bell film when he had some free time and get back with me.

I have tried and I posted the results with an opinion. My opinion was the hat on the man in the Bell film is not an overseas cap, nor is the clothing that of a service man on leave from the U.S. miltary. I told you that the Bell film from the Groden copy was not of such quality that I could do any more with it. In reply #47 you can see the man's left arm. No rolled up sleeves. The man in the Bell film is not only a Negro, but had rolled up sleeves. The reference was made to the Negro in the Bell film. I do see a peak, as well as some distortion. See the enlargement in post #47. Richard Smith was the first person to mention the way the clothing fits the man. I agreed with his observation. The shirt across the back and shoulders appears to be well fitted, unlike the clothing of the man in the Bell film. See attached image below.

More information for Alan Healy: I had asked Gary Mack a specific question as to which way the man's head was facing in the Bell film and this is the question I sent out and the response I was able to get back from Gary Mack ... who has access to the original Bell film. "Can you tell if the guy is in profile or not? Bill" Yes, left profile. Gary -----Original Message----- From: IMSJLE@aol.com [mailto:IMSJLE@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 3:09 PM To: GMack@jfk.org

Interesting observation, Don.

Alan - I am not sure what you mean by my not showing any of my captures. All the images that I post ... I have scanned or have captured. As I told you - the Groden assassination films are dark and not of very good quality. So I contacted Gary Mack about looking at the original Bell film that the Museum has in their possession. That film source would offer the best definition. Gary tells me the man that you think is a service man is none other than the black man seen in the Nix film standing near the Rowland's in his opinion. Same baggy clothes - same rolled up sleeves. I'm not sure how that plays out with his hat, but Mack assured me that the man in the Bell film is not wearing an overseas hat. Yes, a black man appears to have walked up the walkway and in the film footage he appears to keep walking through the shadows. What you don't seem to get is that there is more to this than just having a black man in light colored clothing near the walkway at or around the same time. The man I have shown is in a wide base "V" shaped cap, has on tailored clothing, and it light skinned. While circumstantial as it may be, it still lends credence to Arnold being above that knoll. Alan, One thing that you said puzzles me ... You said, "no, your right, I haven't studied the details of the man in your capture to any great degree because of the discovery of the fellow in BELL who, like I am trying to tell you, is in exactlythe same place at the same time." Let me remind you that you argued against the man on the walkway long before you stumbled across the Negro seen in the Bell film. So I am puzzled as to how you could use the Bell film for an excuse in not taking a good look at the man in the overseas cap before you ever took a position that it wan't Arnold. It seems to me that you should have taken a good look at this man well before ever making that first negative reply. You have shown a pattern whereas you felt that Arnold was a phony to begin with and everything has stemmed from there and I think that is a reckless approach. I cannot think of one time where you looked for anything that supported what Arnold had said. I don't even recall you noticing the two men in dark clothing or uniforms near the tree in the Towner photo until I pointed it out to you. I guess the point is ... if you start with a conclusion before hearing the evidence - it will often times cause you to miss things that were right under your nose all along.

It's not difficult to see what brand of airliner crashed at the Pentagon when looking at the lettering on this panel.

Jack - the only disrupting going on is coming from an idiot named Jack White who is posting non-related JFK threads on a JFK forum even after John Simkin asked us to move on ... think about that for a minute. If you wish to debate the evidence in the JFK assassination, then I am still here and waiting. It seems you are the one wanting to talk about everything else, but JFK related issues. Your comment asking why a dozen guys went to Canada to film a documentary is just why it is senseless to explain personal matters to you because you cannot keep the facts straight. I said, "As I recall, there was about a dozen or more of us up at Lake Harrison where a documentary was being filmed at that time." In other words, we did not go into Canada to shoot a documentary as your question implied. The documentary crew was affiliated with the Symposium. That particular year there was a symposium in Vancouver British Columbia that people all over the country went to. But mostly people interested in Anthropology to Cryptozoology went. Part of that Symposium offered an overnight camping trip to Harrison Lake. Now I know this doesn't feed into your paranoia, but that's the way it goes. Like I said it was non-JFK related. By the way - You'll find that Larry says in his bio on Lancer that he lives in the state of Washington. When I read through the threads when first coming onto this forum - I had noticed that all those stupid remarks about posting times, time zones, and different countries for where Larry must live came from you and David Healy. Your "Amazing Kreskin" like memory must have forgotten that.

Jack - the same could be asked about you ... why do you do you spend so much time doing sloppyresearch? For many of us there is a desire to show a conspiracy, but not at the risk of having us looking like complete idiots by the nonconspiratorial side. This is why when someone makes a claim - many of us need to know if it is valid or not. Those same people are not finding fault with your backyard photo work or your Badge Man work because it is supported by the evidence that we see. If you are asking people to explain why others like myself just do not blindy accept what you say, then include Robert Groden, Gary Mack, Harold Weisberg, Anthony Marsh, Josiah Thompson, and many, many other researchers in that list because they have all faulted many of your off-the-wall claims. Dave Curbow and I are friends, Royce Beirma and I are friends, Debra Conway and I are friends, Tony Cummings, and I are friends. Mike Hogan and I are friends and etc., and not all of us can agree on everything about the JFK assassination, but all of us have agreed that the poor research you have done in recent times has hurt the JFK assassination community. Look at you now ... you are so paranoid that you are more concerned about why JFK researchers know one another than you are about the actual evidence of the case. Is it no wonder why Copa or Lancer will not allow you to present at their conferences any longer. The bottom line is that many of us want to show that there was a conspiracy if there was one. Many of us believe the latter to have been the case in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. What we want however is to be able to show that there was a conspiracy by showing well thought out positions based on factual and reliable evidence. If that means that we may not agree with you or feel the need to show your mistakes, then so be it. With notioriety comes responsibility. Your research in recent years has not been conducted responsibly in many of our views. If you go look at the critique I did on "TGZFH" on Lancer you will find one place in the book where you refer to a photo as genuine in one claim and not genuine on another. That's the kind of research you have been bringing to the table and it is not acceptable in many of our opinions. The photo you posted was taken in Canada on a non-related JFK project. As I recall, there was about a dozen or more of us up at Lake Harrison where a documentary was being filmed at that time. Again, it was non-JFK related. We plot our conspiracy against you (Jack White) in the U.S. at secret locations that "The knights of the Anti-Jack Society" picks out for us! (eyes rolling~)

Alan - the man was standing in the shade of the walkway. He had a couple of sun spots hitting his back and neither of them were on his neck. (see below) A lot can be learned from a small fraction of a photo if you know what you are looking for. I am getting the impression that you really haven't put much thought into these images. Your research seems to appear somewhat sloppy if you don't first find out what a U.S. service man's clothes looked like and to find out if they are fitted or not. I don't know why you think the man is trying to look into the parking lot when he is over the knoll and his view of the lot would be blocked by the wall and the pergola. I am not sure what your silly remark was supposed to mean, but let's look at what you have said so far ... If the man's cap is not seen in profile as I stated and he has turned his head to look into a parking lot that he could not possibly do from where he is located, then why is the wide "V" shape not seen on the back of the hat like it is with the man on the walkway? Did you not think this was important when considering if the man on the walkway in the overseas cap was this black man in the Bell film! Honestly, No I didn't but now I have considered your points & it hasn't changed the fact that the guy in BELL with the same hat, the same shirt & almost certainly the same pants is walking past the position of your Arnold candidate at exactly the same place in time, in the other film. There is a man in similar clothes standing on the shelter steps in the Towner photo with Arnold on the ground near the tree - should we say he too, is Arnold? If the back of your man's hat doesn't have that wide "V" shape to it's base, then he cannot be the man seen in my image. So far you had to be told that the man you saw in the Bell film was black. Until that time you never mentioned the man on the walkway in the overseas cap as looking black. Then you had to be told that U.S. service men have tailored uniforms that they wore when on leave. The black man you are talking about is wearing very baggy clothing. Whether the black man you see is either in profile or looking away - his cap does not have that puptent shape to it, nor does it have the wide "V" shape at it's base. I know of no other style of cap that has the "V" shaped base on it other than the military style overseas cap. To date you have not thought that any of these points mattered and you have stood fast on the black man in the Bell film as being the man seen standing on the walkway. The black men you are talking about don't have on the same kind of hat as the man in the Bell film. Emmett Hudson has on a similar hat and he too, is wearing baggy light colored pants and shirt. Have you considered that the black man in the Bell film may have been one of the grounds keepers working with Hudson? I suggest you look at the image below. You are talking about the image I lighted in order to see the man's hat shape. The sun spots on the man's back before I lightened the image are quite visible even to the untrained eye. And while the peaks of the overseas hat may be difficult to make out ... the wide "V" shape at it's base in not.

Penny Elgas wrote; As I began to drive, I heard a crunching sound (like driving on gravel) and I saw a piece of metal on the road about the size of a softball (it looked like a small conveyer belt-like roller with pins.) I remember thinking that I could puncture my tires - but in that same thought, I vowed to keep driving, even if I had to ride home on the tire rims. Then I went to my car and faced that piece of the plane that was in the back seat. It appeared to be a piece of the tail. There was no metal on it and it was very lightweight -- all plastic and fiberglass. It was 22" long and 15" wide. I have no idea how it got into my car because I do not remember seeing any rubble flying around while I was at the crash site. I assume that it dropped in through the sunroof or flipped in through a window. The plane piece consisted of a layer of white paint, and layers of yellow and gray fiberglass as well as a thin brown corrugated material. Statement from Penny Elgas Washington Post.story / Sept. 11th, 2002 See also: Selection of 'Lamp Pole' reports Rob Schickler, a Baylor University 2001 graduate and Arlington, Va. resident, said. "A plane flew over my house," (one mile away from the Pentagon). "It was loud, but not unusual because the [Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport] is by my house, on the other side of the Pentagon. Occasionally planes that miss the landing fly over my house." "A few seconds later, there was this sonic boom," he said. "The house shook, the windows were vibrating." "There was a hole in the building, and you could smell it in the air. It's a beautiful day, but you can smell the burning concrete and burning jet fuel." http://www3.baylor.edu/Lariat/091201/alumni.html Dan Fraunfelter, 24, a part time student of architecture at Northern Virginia Community College landed a job working on the first phase of the Pentagon renovation. With a fellow he was repairing a damaged ceiling grid on the third floor of the Pentagon’s E-Ring when they heard “A strange sucking, whirring sound, like a loud vacuum cleaner.” ... As he ran, he noticed a blown-out window. He ran to the window and looked down to see if he could see what happened. Below the window there was an old electric generator engulfed in smoke and flames. “The generator blew!” he said to the subcontractor. As he ran down the corridor, the smoke was getting thicker. http://www.msnbc.com/news/635293.asp#BODY Charlie Collins, a contractor working on the Pentagon plumbing near the explosion, saw a ball of fire as he evacuated. "The duct work blew apart -- everything. I thought a generator blew up. The ceiling was down. The walls were all leaning over." http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...-home-headlines Steve Carter, assistant building manager in the Federal Facilities Division, the office responsible for Pentagon operations reported that: " ... the aircraft had hit the Pentagon’s emergency power generator, there were no emergency lights in stairwells or corridors to help lead people to exits and safety" http://www.govexec.com/features/1001/1001spec1.htm Just before impact, the plane clipped off two VDOT light poles on Washington Boulevard, a football field or two away from the Pentagon. In the same area, the blast from the plane's impact damaged the lenses of one of VDOT's traffic monitoring cameras and knocked the camera sideways. http://www.roadstothefuture.com/VA_Sept21.txt Terry Mitchell, chief, Audiovisual Division, Office of ASD PA Question: "Did you see any evidence of the aircraft anywhere?" Yes, I did. You could see just small pieces of it. Lee Evey, Pentagon Renovation Manager gave a briefing: "The wing actually clipped that generator, and portions of it broke off. There are other parts of the plane that are scattered about outside the building. None of those parts are very large, however. You don't see big pieces of the airplane sitting there extending up into the air. But there are many small pieces. And the few larger pieces there look like they are veins out of the aircraft engine. They're circular." http://www.patriotresource.com/wtc/federal/0915/DoD.html "The plane peeled back as it entered, leaving pieces of the front of the plane near the outside of the building and pieces from the rear of the aircraft farther inside." "The plane approached the Pentagon about six feet off the ground, clipping a light pole, a car antenna, a construction trailer and an emergency generator before slicing into the building ..." Jennifer Loven / Detroit News / Oct 6. LaVern L Schueller, a USAF Colonel Chaplain was on temporary duty at the Pentagon. "It appeared that someone had taken a tin snip and cut the red "c" from American Airlines and leaned that piece of the fuselage on the wall about 200 feet from the impact area. "The top of a light pole was knocked off on an overpass. The FBI had marked it as evidence. The top of a light pole had been knocked off on the street that goes by the Pentagon. It too was marked as evidence. And finally, it took out the entire light pole near the sidewalk. http://www.aapc.org/prayer.htm http://www.nwfdailynews.com/archive/bill_c...010923col1.html Loras College Magazine article (.pdf file) Bruce Terril, a 1966 Kennewick High School graduate, was working on the fifth floor for a defense contractor. "It was so low that two light poles were knocked over," http://www.tri-cityherald.com/terror/0918-3.html Leslie Hortum was trapped in her car beside the Pentagon. Flight 77 had just flown directly overhead, clipping light poles as it went. A piece of wreckage was lodged against the car. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...repentagon.html Lt. Michael Schaefer, 26, walked out of the Pentagon to the sight of black smoke, the dizzying smell of jet fuel and the confusion of workers crying, searching for colleagues, trying to figure out why their workplace was ablaze. The day after a hijacked jet crashed into the Pentagon, Schaefer went back to work, although he could still see the smoke from the highway and smell it in the hallway. http://www.jsonline.com/news/attack/nov01/family22112101.asp U.S. AIR FORCE LIEUTENANT Colonel Tyrone “Woody” Woodyard felt the building shake and saw a fireball blaze past his Pentagon office window. The next morning the public affairs office was up and running again in the Pentagon. “It was eerie,” Woodyard says. “Soot covered the floor and the smell of smoke and fuel filled the air—everyone was on edge.” http://sumagazine.syr.edu/winter01-02/time/timepg12.html Don Perkal, a lawyer, was working at the Pentagon. " ... Even before stepping outside I could smell the cordite. Then I knew explosives had been set off somewhere. " http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2001/09/19perkal.html Brian Potance, 38, of Tamaqua, spent the greater part of eight weeks dedicated to cleaning up damage, one of 100 Waste Management drivers from across the country who took on the responsibility. "The front of the building was burned white and you could smell jet fuel. Things were burned to a powder and there was lots of concrete dust. That's why we wore bandannas." Waste Management first hauled the trash, considered "sacred debris," to the rear of the Pentagon complex where ATF workers carefully raked through the piles using special combs. Then WM workers transported it to one of the world's largest disposal sites, King George Landfill, Virginia. http://www.tnonline.com/archives/news/2002.../zoneupper.html Rep. Mark Steven Kirk (R-Ill.), a Naval Reserve intelligence officer, visited the site ''The first thing you smell is the burning. And then you can smell the aviation fuel. And then you can smell this sickly, rotten-meat smell,'' http://www.suntimes.com/terror/stories/cst-nws-pent16.html Kevin Schaeffer, 29, Navy Command Center Lt. suffered 41 percent body burns and lung damage from breathing jet fuel. http://fredericksburg.com/Movies/2002/0320...ntagonvictim_T1 http://fredericksburg.com/Movies/2002/032002/pentagonvictim "...on a service road that circled the Pentagon between the B and C rings. A chunk of the 757's nose cone and front landing gear lay on the pavement a few feet away, resting against the B Ring wall." http://www.pilotonline.com/special/911/pentagon3.html Ron Turner, the Navy’s Deputy Chief Information Officer, was standing at a funeral at Arlington National Cemetery: “There was a huge fireball, followed by the black cloud of a fuel burn.” “It reminded me of being back in Vietnam, watching Tan Son Nhut Air Base burn.” http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0901/091301j3.htm Greta Van Susteren: "And you could see the sky sparkling with silver, which I assume was maybe part of the skin of the plane. And it was extraordinary, even what I could see from about five blocks away." Fox - On the Record With Greta Van Susteren, 15 February 2002 - Transcript (Lexis Nexis) You see particles coming down in the air. Some sort of white particles. I can't tell what that is. I'd heard a noise slightly before I'd seen the smoke. Contemporary CNN Report Transcript 9:42.a.m. Clyde Ragland, a Naval officer works near the Pentagon, He described billowing black smoke and "what looked like white confetti raining down everywhere." He said it soon became apparent "that the 'confetti' was little bits of airplane, falling down after being flung high into the bright, blue sky." http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...91201main.story http://bernie.house.gov/documents/articles...10912170838.asp Lon Rains, Editor, Space News "I remember vividly that as I turned off my cell phone I was watching the almost serene image of thick pieces of flaming fiberglass insulation floating down onto the highway." http://www.space.com/news/rains_september11-2.html CMSgt John Monaccio: "I was in room 1B461. The plane's inertia carried aircraft remains all the way through the building coming to rest on the outside walls of our offices. We discovered cockpit wreckage at our feet while attempting to rescue people from a Navy operations area." Lt Col Tom McClain, retired, was OIC of National Guard Inspector General Inquiries/Complaints Division. He wrote: "I saw the remains of the engines in the North parking lot of the Pentagon as well as melted aluminum and other debris left from the aircraft." http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/penta...l_20020316.html Charles H. Krohn, the Army's deputy chief of public affairs reported that one of the aircraft's engines somehow ricocheted out of the building and arched into the Pentagon's mall parking area between the main building and the new loading dock facility, http://www.aviationnow.com/content/publica...010917/aw48.htm Frank Probst feared he'd lose his head to its right engine. "I dove towards the ground and watched this great big engine from this beautiful airplane just vaporize. " http://www.mdw.army.mil/news/Pentagon_hit_...cked_plane.html http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/6...ws/10660-1.html ... The plane's right wing went through a generator trailer "like butter," Probst said. The starboard engine hit a low cement wall and blew apart. ...three streetlights had been sheared in half by the airliner's wings at 12 to 15 feet above the ground. An engine had clipped the antenna off a Jeep Grand Cherokee stalled in traffic not far away. http://www.militarycity.com/sept11/fortress1.html Ron Chaney, Retired Army Lt. Col. a program manager for Coleman Research Corp., was in a meeting "about 40 to 50 yards away" from the impact, and involved with search and rescue "I got up close enough through the smoke to see a jet engine. That was the first time I knew what’d happened and that it was a commercial airliner. I’d really thought it was a Lear jet-sized plane because the Pentagon is a pretty big damned building." http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache: Tom Hovis, thovis@mindspring.com a Fairfax, Assoc. Member, reports: The nosewheel I understand is in the grass near the second ring. http://www.beanerbanner.com/a_father____.htm Lt. Cmdr. David Tarantino, U.S. Navy I stepped into the open breezeway between C and B rings to get some fresh air. I saw these two holes where the aircraft had come through. You could see an aircraft tire that had come through three rings of the Pentagon, and there were charts and other stuff that was obviously from the aircraft. http://207.27.3.29/dailyfed/0802/083002nj2.htm Todd Tiahrt, Kansas District 4 representative, U.S. House of Representatives wrote: The next day we came to the Pentagon. The Pentagon has five outer rings labeled A through E, with E being the outer ring. In the C and B rings the plane had punched a hole you could a drive a truck around in, and I saw an airplane tire. It made it very real." wichita.bizjournals / Sept. 6th 2002 Army Sgt. Andrew Myers, 28, a Peoria native and 1992 graduate of Metamora Township High School: "Once outside, I looked toward the helipad and the building was engulfed in flames. When I looked at the top of the building it looked like it was sunken in, and I remember how weird it looked, but at the moment the building was still standing. The fire was next to the construction site so I thought at first that there was an explosion at the site. Purely accidental. The black and gray smoke was rising high into the sky, moving toward the Potomac River. I looked around the ground and highway and started seeing bits and pieces of what looked like an airplane. Metal chunks, some big, some small, then, on the helipad I noticed a huge piece of metal that had red letters that said ‘CAN,’ and I knew that it was an American Airlines flight." http://www.pjstar.com/news/sept11/special/fear.html Carmen L. Burgess, a U.S. Army. photjournalist took photos at the scene: http://www.army.mil/usar/multimedia/disast...essgallery.html "... we saw people picking up pieces of debris from the plane," http://www.militarylifestyle.com/home/1,12...:2:1240,00.html William Sinclair, 54, of Riverdale, configures computers for an Army contractor. Sitting at his desk on the first floor of the Pentagon that morning he felt a giant "gush of air, then everything went dark." "We didn't have a clue that it was a plane until we got outside and saw pieces of the airplane everywhere," http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p...=A2777-2001Oct3 http://www.draftcenter.com/pages/articles/...art20010920.htm Wallace: I have to tell you, I got out and walked over and I saw parts of the plane. The debris was actually on the overpass there. http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/11/bn.74.html Donald R. Bouchoux: "...There was an enormous fireball, followed about two seconds later by debris raining down. The car moved about a foot to the right when the shock wave hit. I had what must have been an emergency oxygen bottle from the airplane go flying down across the front of my Explorer and then a second piece of jagged metal come down on the right side of the car." Washington Post, Sept. 20, 2001 (Lexis Nexis) (mirror) http://www2.hawaii.edu/~julianr/lexisnexis/leonard1.txt Among the trash littering the road was a scorched green oxygen tank marked "Cabin air. Airline use." Gannett News Service / Larry Wheeler / Originally published, Sept. 12, 2001 http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/...rspreadsto.html Gregory Fechner, former Air Force staff sergeant We were stepping over chunks of aircraft fuselage when I noticed all these shoes lying around. There were ladies' high heels, men's patent-leather loafers, none of them matching. http://207.27.3.29/dailyfed/0802/083002nj5.htm Michael Tamillow, a battalion chief and search and rescue expert for the Fairfax County, Virginia, Fire Department confirtms the discovery of "parts of the fuselage" albeit that " No large pieces apparently survived". http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/12/pentagon.terrorism/ "Rescue workers who have been through the building have reported seeing the fuselage; however, the largest pieces of the plane are about 1 by 2 feet." Stars and Stripes / Sandra Jontz and Patrick Dickson/ Sep. 13 Don Fortunato, a plainclothes detective with the Arlington (Va.) Police Department, was walking into his office when he heard a muffled explosion. He dashed to the scene. “Traffic was at a standstill, so I parked on the shoulder, not far from the scene and ran to the site. Next to me was a cab from D.C., its windshield smashed out by pieces of lampposts. There were pieces of the plane all over the highway, pieces of wing, I think.” Dr. Thom Mayer heads the ER staff at the nearby Inova Fairfax hospital. On the day after the event he witnessed “jet fuel all over the place." Carlton Burkhammer was bussed to the Pentagon with other firefighters from Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Station 14. Within the building he spotted lime-green pieces from the interior of the plane With another firefighter, Brian Moravitz, they were combing through debris near the impact site at about 4.00 a.m. on Friday 14th. Peering at the wreckage with their helmet lights, the two spotted an intact seat from the plane’s cockpit with a chunk of the floor still attached. Then they saw two odd-shaped dark boxes, about 1.5 by 2 feet long. They’d been told the plane’s “black boxes” would in fact be bright orange, but these were charred black. The boxes had handles on one end and one was torn open. They cordoned off the area and called for an FBI agent, who in turn called for someone from the National Transportation Safety Board who confirmed the find: the black boxes from American Airlines Flight 77. http://www.msnbc.com/news/635293.asp Mickey Bell, an electrical contractor's foreman was working to renovate the second and third floors. Outside, and less than 100 feet from the initial impact of the plane, he was very nearly struck by one of the wings as they sped by him. He had just left the project trailer (that exploded) when he heard a loud noise. The next thing he recalled was picking himself off the floor, where he had been thrown by the blast. He got into his truck, parked in the trailer compound, and sped away. Plastic and rivets from an airplane were later found imbedded in its sheet metal http://www.necanet.org/whats_new/report.cfm?ID=1003: http://www.ecmag.com/industrynews/index.cf...iew&art_id=1115 "We went out to look at his truck and the truckbed was filled with all kinds of debris that must have come from the blast. He's one really lucky guy," Will Jarvis was working in the building 300 metres away from the carnage “We thought the plane was a dump truck backing into the building, because there was a lot of construction going on,” The group noticed that the sky was darker than normal, but still didn’t think much of it. “ Then I saw little bits of silver falling from the sky,” http://www.magazine.utoronto.ca/02winter/f02.htm#jarvis Anthony (Tony) Terronez usually worked as assistant treasurer for the Eisenhower and Terrace Theaters at The John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. Heading instead for The National Theater in downtown Washing-ton, D.C. he had to drive northbound past the Pentagon and was running late, Inching through heavy traffic, 100 yards or so past the heliport "I heard this loud pitch screeching sound that was very pierced my ears. It reminded my(sic) of planes taking off at National Airport or a missile or something out of Saving Private Ryan." http://www.qctimes.com/breaking/qcconnection.html "... this loud screeching sound that just came out of nowhere and it intensified." "...the fireball just kept getting bigger and bigger" "With the ball of flames getting higher, the sound getting louder, I saw in my rearview, debris going up into the air. Still stuck looking into my rearview mirror, I realized that the debris was heading my way! I quickly ducked into my passenger seat. Within a second or two, I started to hear little dinks and pings bouncing off my car. Like somebody throwing pebbles on my car. Then I heard a loud glass smashing sound. I looked up and luckily it wasn't my car, but it was the automobile of the person right next to me in the left lane." "... I heard this big crash come from somewhere. It sounded like glass being shattered and I thought maybe, at first, it was one of my windows so I popped up to look but everything was fine. But when I looked to the car next to me I realized that something went through the rear windshield and shattered it. There was a hole where you could see that something went through it." “Pulling away from the Pentagon there was tons of stuff on the ground, big pieces of metal, concrete, everything. We got up to a certain point and there was this huge piece of something - I mean it was big, it looked like a piece of an engine or something - in the road. And there was somebody, definitely a security guard or maybe a military person, with his car in front of it making sure no one touched it.” http://www.counseling.org/ctonline/news/amazing1001.htm [Editor's comment: The "huge piece of of something" was perhaps a piece of fallen lamp pole that hit a passing taxi] George E. Clodfelter III, a Pentagon police officer: "What had happened was there was aviation fuel cascading out of the third floor," he says. "It hit a tree and went down the tree and set the tree on fire, then set this firetruck that was set next to the tree on fire, then the truck exploded." http://www.washtimes.com/september11/scene.htm Arthur Rosati, another security officer and an army reservist , was in a meeting when the plane hit. "I ran down the hallway and there was smoke everywhere. You could smell the jet fuel, it was unbearable," http://www.dcmilitary.com/marines/henderso...ws/10797-1.html A CNN reporter was interviewed by a fellow from CNN : You got a close-up look at the damage, didn't you? Yes, I was right next to the building. And what did you see? I saw a big, gaping hole and I could see pieces of the plane inside. Earlier, an eye-witness told us the plane didn't crash into the building. Well, I don't know what it looked like from where he was, but I looked right inside the hole and I know it crashed into the building. http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/war/spin.htm Congressman Robert Aderholt, Fourth District, Alabama, said "Seeing a few pieces of the airliner, like a few of the seat covers and tail really makes one come face to face with the reality of what actually happened." Cache: www.house.gov/aderholt/sept12.htm, September 13, 2001" Judy Biggert, a Congress Member, visited on Thursday. ''There was a seat from a plane, there was part of the tail and then there was a part of green metal, I could not tell what it was, a part of the outside of the plane,'' she said. ''It smelled like it was still burning.'' Mark Steven Kirk used to work at the Navy command center on the third floor of the Pentagon's D ring ''The first thing you smell is the burning. And then you can smell the aviation fuel. And then you can smell this sickly, rotten-meat smell,'' http://www.suntimes.com/terror/stories/cst-nws-pent16.html Lori Lewis ImLoriJean@aol.com a Fairfax County 911 center call taker and police and fire dispatcher worked at the scene.. "... There were hundreds of cardboard boxes and plastic tubs lined up to be packed with evidence. Large and small pieces of the airplane were laying on the ground waiting to be sorted." "... In other office windows, the glass was not shattered but melted, oozing down like candle wax". http://www.co.fairfax.va.us/ps/police/repo...Fall%202001.PDF http://members.aol.com/hfur/Lori.html Gary Marsh, marsh@baptistgeneral.org reported: We had seen two light poles that had been hit by the approaching plane, but I was surprised there were so many others untouched. Most of the glass had been shattered, but there were a couple with the glass melted and sagging, but still intact. http://www.bgcworld.org/events/snyder.htm Governor Ronnie Musgrove, Mississippi's 62nd Governor reported that: Windows sagged and bulged, the glass melted and reshaped by the intense heat. http://www.governor.state.ms.us/news&infor...mericasbest.htm ' Buttcrax OMO' posted (9/13/01 9:47:44 pm) a message from his son, D C Mathew: "...The plane came in low, over a highway, knocking over a light pole on it's approach. I don't know if the media will ever get the tapes, but there are about three or four surveillance cameras, one of which is on a traffic sign on the highway, and may be a public camera, that would have had shots of the plane from as close as a few dozen yards from it when it came in. "...After about 15 minutes shoveling up chunks of carpet and brick, I found a piece of circuit board, and a chunk of the plane. When I say a chunk of it, I mean a piece that was about 3 oz of twisted aluminum. The biggest piece I've seen so far is about the size of a refrigerator. http://pub6.ezboard.com/foldmenonlinewhatd...picID=957.topic "Far out into the areas of the building that do not look damaged from the outside, it is nothing but twisted rubble inside". John Damoose, a Travis City, Mich. native who was in a meeting said "everybody got nervous. .‚.‚. We didn't know whether to stay inside or go outside. The thing with terrorist attacks is that you don't know what is the next thing that will happen." He said the worst part was leaving the Pentagon and walking along Fort Meyer Drive, a bike trail, "you could see pieces of the plane." http://a188.g.akamaitech.net/f/188/920/5m/...p01/attack.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro...ep01/attack.htm LTC Victor Correa’s office was hit. He was knocked down by the impact. “I saw a fireball come over my head ...coming like a wind-cloud of smoke trailing it. I also noticed to my right the windows going out and coming back in. The fireball came in and out quick – the speed of lightning. As it went back, it left a cloud of smoke and started dropping. At that time the fire system went up. He spent the remainder of the day rescuing. Eventually, after calling home, he moved on to join a litter team preparing to go in the building. This time, according to Correa, he found out what caused the horrific attack he survived earlier that morning; he saw the nose cone and the landing gear of the airliner." http://www.army.mil/usar/news/2002/09-11an...rotellsall.html Staff Sgt. Chris Braman and another rescuer, an Army lieutenant colonel, clambered through a broken first-floor window and into the E Ring's fiery wreckage. "The lawn was littered with twisted pieces of aluminum. He saw one chunk painted with the letter 'A,' another with a 'C.' It didn't occur to Braman what the letters signified until a man in the crowd stooped to pick up one of the smaller metal shards. He examined it for a moment, then announced: 'This was a jet.' " http://www.pilotonline.com/special/911/pentagon3b.html ARFF fire crews reported fires on every floor of the "D" and "E" rings. "The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear. http://www.nfpa.org/NFPAJournal/OnlineExcl...ve_11.01.01.asp U.S. Army Sgt. Major Tony Rose. “I picked up a child's hand. That was it. Just a child's hand and that's when I got angry. To wonder why someone could do this. You can come after me. I'm a soldier. I have sworn to protect and defend, but that wasn't right,” http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/11/...ain521568.shtml It's hard to erase what he saw. A child's hand. A foot ripped off above the ankle. And, oddly, eyeglasses without a scratch. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/9_11/articles/911pentagon.htm Cindy Álvarez, a special agent with the U.S. Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS), said she and her fellow workers sorted through debris from collapsed Pentagon walls and pieces of the hijacked airplane. They found the box cutters used by the hijackers to commandeer the plane, identification papers, money, jewelry, and body parts. "These pieces of bodies, we treated like precious treasure," Álvarez said. "We knew this was somebody's family member. We knew they were waiting for the bodies to be returned so they could bury them properly and begin the healing process." Álvarez said one of the disturbing aspects of her job was recovering the items of children who had been on board the plane. "It was upsetting to find children's shoes, their little suitcases and their stuffed animals," http://www.cathstan.org/news/09-05-02/3.shtml D. S. Khavkin, from the eigtth floor of a high-rise building: "... knocked down a number of street lamp poles" http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking_p...000/1540586.stm Kirk Milburn, a construction supervisor for Atlantis Co. was on the exit of Interstate 395. "... saw debris flying. I guess it was hitting light poles." http://a188.g.akamaitech.net/f/188/920/5m/...p01/attack.html Afework Hagos, 26, of Arlington, stuck in a traffic jam on Columbia Pike, "It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts .." http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0...,550486,00.html Kat Gaines, a Fairfax County Fire & Rescue technician was heading south on Route 110, by the parking lots to the south when she saw a "low-flying jetliner strike the top of nearby telephone poles." She "then heard the plane power up" and plunge into the Pentagon. http://www.fccc.org/News/valor.htm Vin Narayanan, a reporter for USA TODAY was driving near the Pentagon http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/11/washscene.htm "The tail of the plane clipped the overhanging exit sign above me" http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/0...irst-person.htm Rodney Washington, a systems engineer for a Pentagon contractor, was stuck in the traffic a few hundred yards away: "... knocking over light poles " http://www.boston.com/news/packages/undera...response+.shtml Steve Riskus took pictures less then 1 minute after the impact http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/crashthumbnails.html "It knocked over a few light poles on its way..." http://www.humanunderground.com/11septembe...1-media/et7.jpg Father Stephen McGraw was waiting on the northbound side of Washington Boulevard. driving to a graveside service at Arlington "The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car. http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/6...ws/10772-1.html http://www.mdw.army.mil/news/Pentagon_cras...ed_victims.html Jim R. Cissell, a former photojournalist, drives past the Pentagon every day on his way to work at the Newseum in Arlington, Va. http://enquirer.com/editions/2001/09/14/lo..._residents.html .".. taking out telephone and power lines on its way in, hit the building." http://www.cincypost.com/attack/cissel091201.html Noel Sepulveda, a Master Sgt. was walking back to his motorcycle in the Pentagon South Car Park It "The plane’s right wheel struck a light pole, causing it to fly at a 45-degree angle.".", he said. The plane tried to recover, but hit a second light pole and continued flying at an angle. "You could hear the engines being revved up even higher," http://www.af.mil/news/Apr2002/n20020415_0585.shtml Colonel Bruce Elliott, a World War II and Korean War Chemical Mortar Battalion veteran and a former commander of the Iowa Army Ammunition Plant wasalso in the Parking Lot "... the craft clipped a utility pole guide wire, which may have slowed it down a bit" http://www.thehawkeye.com/features/911/IdxThur.html Air Force Honor Guard members were at the end of the cemetery directly across the highway from the Pentagon. " They had heard, some had seen a plane coming in skimming trees and light poles." http://www.bgcworld.org/events/snyder.htm Mark Bright, 32, a traffic patrol officer was the first to arrive at the scene after seeing the plane from his guard booth by the Mall Entrance. "-- at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down." He also said he heard the plane "power-up" http://www.dcmilitary.com/marines/henderso...ws/10797-1.html http://206.181.245.163/ebird/e20011108vivid.htm Wanda Ramey, a DPS master patrol office watched from the Mall plaza booth. "I saw the wing of the plane clip the light post, and it made the plane slant. Then the engine revved up." http://www.mdw.army.mil/news/Pentagon_policeman.html Michael Anthony K (aka 'Mimi Angelica') a 42-year-old firefighter-paramedic saw "...poles lying on the ground that had apparently been knocked over by the plane as it headed for the building." http://www.angelfire.com/grrl/mimiangelica/advocate.html Mike Walter, 46, a USA Today reporter, said "...It turned and then it went around ..it clipped one of these light poles." Recorded interview - quick load Recorded interview - best quality Richard Benedetto, another USA TODAY reporter said, The only thing we saw on the ground outside there was a piece of a ... the tail of a lamp post. Recorded interview - quick load / May 2002. Recorded interview - best quality / May 2002. A Pentagon Navy Admiral said, "It was a good size jet aircraft. I saw it clip a light pole but keep coming ..." Houston Chronicle, 9/11/01 - Michael Hedges (mirror) http://www2.hawaii.edu/~julianr/lexisnexis/clark.txt Don Fortunato, a plainclothes detective with the Arlington (Va.) Police Department, was walking into his office when he heard a muffled explosion. He dashed to the scene. “Traffic was at a standstill, so I parked on the shoulder, not far from the scene and ran to the site. Next to me was a cab from D.C., its windshield smashed out by pieces of lampposts. There were pieces of the plane all over the highway, pieces of wing, I think.” LaVern L Schueller, a Military Chaplain surveyed the scene after the event. "The top of a light pole was knocked off on an overpass. The FBI had marked it as evidence. The top of a light pole had been knocked off on the street that goes by the Pentagon. It too was marked as evidence. And finally, it took out the entire light pole near the sidewalk. http://www.aapc.org/prayer.htm http://www.nwfdailynews.com/archive/bill_c...010923col1.html Frank Probst, dove to the ground to avoid a passing jet engine. "On either side of him, three streetlights had been sheared in half by the airliner's wings at 12 to 15 feet above the ground. An engine had clipped the antenna off a Jeep Grand Cherokee stalled in traffic not far away." http://www.militarycity.com/sept11/fortress1.html Go to this page and see where the plane hit some of the light poles ... http://www.dragonslair.pwp.blueyonder.co.u...les_x_1.htm#pic Allen Cleveland of Woodbridge Virginia looked out from a Metro train going to National Airport Station, to see a jet heading down toward the Pentagon. "I thought, 'There's no landing strip on that side of the subway tracks,' " Before he could process that thought, he saw "a huge mushroom cloud. The lady next to me was in absolute hysterics." Go to the link and hear what the witness had to say. Meseidy Rodriguez confirms "it was a mid size plane". ... Video by Craig Cola / Edited by: Chet Rhodes / washingtonpost.com ... http://mfile.akamai.com/920/rm/thepost.dow...n/091101-5s.ram ... http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/170005.html His brother in-law also saw a jetliner flying low over the tree tops near Seminary Rd. in Springfield, VA. (four miles to the South West of the Pentagon, down Interstate 395) and soon afterwards a military plane was seen flying right behind it.

I believe that logic you spoke of came from me when I first pointed out to you that it was a black man you were referring to in the Bell film rather than the light skinned Arnold. Now let's go over a few more of my pathetic observations if you don't mind. First of all - let's look at the clothes this man in the Bell film is wearing. American military men in overseas caps wear tailored looking clothes ... not something you'd expect to see in a MC Hammer video. Those baggy pants and shirt are not anything like what I have seen on our service men. (see image one below) Next - let's take a close look at that cap on the man in the Bell film and note how far down over the side of his head it comes. It's also semi-round and unlike the puptent shape of an overseas cap. Did you not think this was important when considering if the man on the walkway in the overseas cap was this black man in the Bell film! There are black men seen on some of the assassination images that are wearing semi-rounded type caps like that Emmett Hudson wore, but they look nothing like an overseas cap, nor do they have that wide "V" shape in the back at it's base. (see image two and three below) I think Micheal Jackson's camp might not agree with you on who the funkiest light skinned black man is. Unlike the black man you used for an example - the man on the walkway in the overseas cap has his upper shoulders and head in shadow and his complexion is still light in color. Do you really think the Godfather of Soul in the image you used would look that light under the same circumstances ... I certainly do not. Thanks for allowing me to share some more pathetic observations with you.

Anyone that disagrees with your view is considered by "you" to be a stooge who is out to attack you. I guess the two major Dallas Conferences are run by stooges too, for they would just as soon go out of business before they let you you speak at another conference. You've become known as a rambling nut who says things without having the facts to back it up. DellaRosa kissed your ass. On his forum you could make stupid allegations and get away with it. There DelleRosa would not insist that you get your facts straight. So far you have not gotten away with it on other forums. If one looks at the history of DellaRosa's site they will see that those members who are left are predominately alteration believers and those who were banned were anti-alteration believers. Isn't it odd that mysterious coincidence you (Jack) don't seem to be interested in exposing.

Jack - I see you have gone from not remembering where I worked to it being a large international company now. Your mind is so shot that you cannot even follow the trail you have already laid. You have admitted that I am the guy who met you in the Plaza because we are the only two who would have recalled the details of that meeting. I, (Bill Miller), also spoke at the Saturday Lancer conference where I was taped giving my 90 minute presentation. All you have to do is look at the Lancer 2000 Conference tape and you would see me as I was in Dallas in 2000 when we met, then all this stupidity on your part would have come to a screeching halt. I think the problem is that you don't want it to come to a halt, so you don't bother to do the simple things that would establish what I have told you. Rather than you admit that you are mistaken, you choose to continue to make a complete ass out of yourself. Your sloppy research has become your trademark, so I guess it should be no different here.

No Jack - I am the same person and you are just a paranoid moron with a failing memory! I've given you several references - Groden - Conway - Mack. I also told you to look at a copy of the 2000 Lancer presentation and you will see that I am a large man with nice thick bushy hair just like that you see in the photo. But instead, you just keep putting up idiotic post as if to infer as if I'm part of some CIA plot against you and it makes you look pretty stupid in my opinion. By the way - what is your real purpose of not checking your facts as you were asked to do rather than continuing with such nonesense? Jack - I never told you that my chemotherapy was recent - you are making that up on your own. I had Hodgkin's disease in 1989 when a nurse accidentally shot chemothearpy (Vinblastine) into the muscle of right hand. I then relapsed in 1993 and had a bone marrow transplant. In 1997 I was awarded $750,000.00 for the hospital disabling me. Also for the record ... even though I lost my hair during both battles with my cancer - there are in fact some chemotherapy drugs that do not cause one's hair to fall out. Now this is why I don't go around telling my personal business to just anyone because some jackass like yourself will always get the facts wrong and start saying things they know nothing about. If you don't mind - allow me to keep some things about myself personal for in the final analysis - you're not going to remember it correctly anyhow.

In much the same way as myself and several other JFK assassination researchers are. Have we met before - yes. Do we share similar interest on various topics, it may be fair to say that is true. Do we bowl together - go out together - socialize in public together ... no, because it's really hard to do from two separate states. Would I look him up if I was in his neck of the woods - I would certainly hope so. Has he ever been to my state, city or home ... as far as I know he has not been to my state or city. He has never been to my home.