Bill Miller

3 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Paul:

I would like to know who actually guided Baker and Truly but I do not know. Someone who knew from the very start how the investigation should end, and someone who hung around when the testimonies were taken. However, it was the same force which compelled Commissioner Ford to move the back wound to the neck, the same force which decided that 27 inch equals 38 inch, the same force which made sure that no faithful trace from Oswald's interrogation would be available, the same force which allowed Lee Harvey Oswald to be killed by Jack Ruby, the same force which cleaned and refurbished the limo right away, the same which made a surgery on President's head prior to the regular autopsy, the same force which brought the motorcade to Elm street. This was not the making of one man. 

No normal person lies gladly. People do not want to lie, and do not lie unless forced by the circumstances. It could be presented to Baker and Truly as their patriotic duty and  as a relatively minor thing: "You do not need to lie, you just say that you met him in the second floor vestibule rather than in the first floor vestibule. That's all."  

You point out the alteration to President Kenney's body which is a justified concern, but when you try to make every little thing a conspiracy, then you don't do justice to the good claims. The who guided Baker comment is a theory - nothing more. The thing is ... Baker's commenting on the pigeons flying from the roof of the TSBD is a reasonable excuse for thinking someone in the building had fired a shot(s). So Baker runs into the building asking aloud where the elevator was because he wasn't familiar with the layout of the Depository. So it was Truly who followed Baker through the front entrance who led Baker. All those things are a rational response and yet some people attempt to make something sinister out of that to the point of just stopping short of alleging that the pigeons were part of the conspiracy by making certain that Baker saw them.

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

Bill  -- did you first meet your buddy at work and immediately offer him rides?  Or did you know him before you offered him rides?

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

I knew this person and when he went to work where I was at ... I said to him "Why not ride with me."  And when he offered to pay me not long afterwards, I told him it wasn't necessary because I used no more gas for two people to be in my car as it does for just one.  The same thing happened when I worked for another place ... I met a guy at work who lived several miles out of Glasford and he passed by my place driving to work.  When I found this out, I offered for him to leave his car at my place and go the rest of the way with me if he wanted and he took me up on it. Took him about 7 minutes to get to my place and another 25 - 30 minutes to get to our work place. Throughout my life I have never taken money for doing a favor for anyone. I have accepted money for doing work for people I have known, but not for giving someone a ride when I was going that way anyhow.

1 hour ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Bill:

Mr. Truly could not say that Lee Harvey Oswald was approached by Officer Baker on the first floor. This is the point. If he would admit this, Lee Harvey Oswald could not be the assassin because he would not have time to run down to meet Baker who has just entered the first floor. That would be a killer blow to the lone nut theory which started to shape very early on (actually, it was prepared before the act). Truly and Baker were forced to lie. Gerald Ford lied by moving the back wound from a thoracic level to the neck. If this wound would stay where it really was, the lone nut theory would be gone. Moving the first floor encounter to the second floor was a similar necessity. Only the second floor offered the benefit of uncertainty as to where people could come from. This was the reason for selecting the second floor as their meeting point. Please note that moving the encounter from the first to the second floor allowed to keep certain features as if it were the truth: the "vestibule", the words used, the Coke, and the rest of Baker-Truly trip to the upper floors (I hope I will not be accused of plagiarism since I am only repeating Sean Murphy's comments).  

I have explained and documented the witnesses roles and possibilities in several posts, including some quite dramatic video recordings of interrogations. The men who stood on the top landing and saw Oswald in the doorway were immediately taken to the police headquarters. Ladies were offered a bail-out in the sense that there will be an (unsigned?) FBI report and no one will ever call them again. Did you watch Serrano's interrogation in the matter of her sighting of the Polka dot dress lady? Exactly this type of offer Serrano received, and she then kept silence for more than 40 years.

And yes, Oswald's whereabouts on the first floor have to do with him being Prayer Man. These are the high-voltage issues, and they can bring down the lone nut version of events. 

As to your beliefs and height and weight impressions: no one cares what you believe, only that we are polite at this Forum and better ignore such empty comments of yours.

To start with - I have studied the RFK assassination from top to bottom and I was aware of the way Serrano was brow beaten to change her story about the woman in the polka dotted dress ... that doesn't mean Truly and Baker got the same done to them. And if Baker and Truly were pressured to lie about their meeting with Oswald, then why not have Lee out of breath and looking nervous. Instead they described a man who didn't appear to have just made record time getting to the second floor lunchroom from just being on the 6th.

Furthermore - supposed you tell me exactly how much longer would it have taken Oswald to descend down one more flight of stairs - 2secs - 3secs ???  I'm 59 years old and I could do it in 3secs ... probably could about get it down below 2secs back in the day that I was in my mid-20's. 

I personally think you are reaching when trying to make Oswald out to be Prayer Man. Who ever Prayer Man was - he was standing with Frazier - Lovelady - Molinda - Shelley - etc., when Wiegman started filming and not on the first or second floor.

3 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Dear William,

Thank you for asking.

Sandy and I are trying to determine whether or not two women, one of whom ("A") is wearing a dark-colored headscarf and dark-colored clothing while standing with her back to the camera on the lower-left side of the TSBD steps in Couch-Darnell, and the second one ("B") who is wearing a light-colored dress and a light-colored headscarf while walking up the steps to the immediate right of "A", .......... ..... [breath] ............... Well, .............. [breath] ............... we're trying to figure out if "A" and "B" exhibit the same characteristics as two women in a group of five headscarf-wearing women standing together in the Z-film, with the particular view of trying to determine whether or not the largest / tallest woman in that group of five (one of whom is barely visible, btw, but who can be seen, in un-cropped Altgens 6, to be wearing a headscarf, too) could be the same person as "A," above.

Actually I didn't ask anything, but was laughing at the remark Michael previously made. But seeing how you want me in the conversation, then I will say that the woman out at Elm Street seems to have have a figure that compliments her form fitting dress as the woman moving up the steps doesn't look to me to be pulling it off.

Don't recall who it was, but I  remember someone saying that running woman must have been pretty fast to have gotten to the steps around the time Patrolman Baker had, and yet the woman in the white looking dress in the Zapruder film is wearing high heels and now she is being considered as having beat the running woman and Patrolman Baker back to the stairs in even more record time.

Just giving the two women in white a cursory look - I don't think the woman on the stairs doesn't have the figure or the form fitting dress on like the woman in Zapruder's film had, but as fast as she must have been to be the Zapruder film woman- perhaps she changed dresses while beating Patrolman Baker to the stairs. 

I also think the woman in white moving up the steps turned her body slightly to get around the woman to her immediate left. I don't see her trying to pull anyone up the stairs. I suspect that it is a shadow under her left arm or perhaps was carrying a purse.

On 3/7/2017 at 2:01 PM, Michael Walton said:

What is the point of this thread? Seriously, I  want to know so I  can tear it apar....er, I  mean contribute  to  it.

Paul - Lee and Buell were basically neighbors so I can see Buell not charging him to ride along. I had a similar circumstance where I had a buddy ride with me to work and I had to pick him up a block or so away and not once did I ask him to pay and when he offered I declined on the grounds that his riding with me didn't cost me a cent more having him along as not. And in as much as I liked fishing with him when ever we could go - I was not infatuated with him. So I understand what you are saying - I just don't see it like you do for the reasons you gave.

9 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Andrej,

I don't see liars everywhere -- only where they contradict themselves and are contradicted.

You choose to doubt Officer Baker and Roy Truly. 

I choose to doubt Fritz, Bookhout, Hosty, Sorrels, Holmes, etc.  Nothing they said is viable.  Nothing at all.  Ultimately your case is based on their testimony, and they all lied their asses off.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

I agree .... Truly could have just as easily said that Lee was confronted by the Police Officer on the first floor and there would be no difference than the second floor confrontation.  But he didn't because it never happened. Baker came through the door looking for an elevator and ended up having to take the stairs. No witness ever said that Baker met Oswald on the first floor. Nor was Oswald seen sliding out the front door so to stand by Buell Frazier. The first floor nonsense is to get Oswald in position to be Prayer Man which Lee was too small to be in the first place in my view.

2 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Bill,

IMHO, you're missing the big picture here.  LHO was a clandestine mercenary for Guy Banister.  That didn't end when LHO went to Mexico.  LHO took with him the very Fake ID newsclippings that Guy Banister took great care to create during August 1963, with the help of Ed Butler and Carlos Bringuier. 

LHO belonged to Guy Banister -- both in Mexico City and in Dallas immediately afterwards.

The mercenary group -- as far as LHO knew it -- was to assassinate Fidel Castro.   LHO thought of himself as a future CIA agent.  Lying dogs in New Orleans had promised him this, on the rouse that they themselves were CIA agents -- namely -- David Ferrie, Fred Crisman, Jack S. Martin and Clay Shaw.   This probably included members of Interpen, like Gerry Patrick Hemming and Loran Hall as well.  

IMHO, all these mercenaries told LHO that they were CIA agents, and that if LHO played ball with them, that LHO would get a full-time job in the CIA.  This was his motivation.  LHO wanted to be in the CIA so bad he could taste it.

So, when Gerry Patrick Hemming offered LHO double the price of his MC rifle if he brought it to the TSBD on the morning of 11/22/1963 to hand it over -- it was not in the context of a simple gun sale.  It was a top-secret, clandestine, secret-handshake spy game that LHO had running in his mind, ever since New Orleans and Mexico City.  It was still going strong.

Finally as for the bullets -- I agree with you entirely.  The framing of LHO was arranged for MONTHS.   It was led by the Radical Right in Dallas, with the Radical Right in New Orleans as second in command.   That's my opinion.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

I am aware of Lee's time in New Orleans and the people he associated with. Lee still could have told Buell Frazier he was selling his gun to someone instead of making up a curtain rod story. The sale of the gun to who and for how much wasn't anyone's business, so I still have reservations that couldn't have just said he had sold his gun. After all - he could sold it on a street corner to a stranger and it would have been legal.

5 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Bill,

That claim is by A.J. Weberman, in his NODULE series.   It comes from Gerry Patrick Hemming, who told Weberman that he called LHO on 11/21/1963 and offered him double the price of his Manlicher-Carcano rifle if he would bring it to the TSBD the next day.

As for the identify of the rifle itself -- it hardly mattered.  Loran Hall was stopped on 11/22/1963 in Dallas with a rifle belonging to Gerry Patrick Hemming, and the FBI carefully investigated the chain of possession of that rifle.  You may be aware of this FBI case.  Gerry Patrick Hemming never spoke to Loran Hall again after that fiasco.  The two Cuba Raiders broke with that scandal.

IMHO, if LHO hadn't handed over his personal rifle, the JFK Kill Team could have blamed Gerry Patrick Hemming for the JFK murder.  The bullet fragments from the JFK limo could match bullets from hundreds of rifles.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Had Lee of taken his rifle to sell to someone on the day of the assassination, then I see no reason why he just didn't say so to Buell Frazier. I often think there have been too many people adding details they know cannot be proven or disproven for what ever reason to get their 15 minutes of fame. For if Lee's rifle was used to frame Oswald, then why was not a 36" MC not left on the 6th floor and not the 40.2" rifles that were being sold the summer of 63.

As far the lead in the bullets - LIfton found the CIA order a vast amount of ammunition with the three MC's they purchased months before the assassination. So I have always believed there was a need to have lead fragments that were made from the same batch so to appear they all came from the same gun.

41 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

That's exactly my point. You are reading into what Baker said about seeing a guy walking away from and turning back to him as being a guy behind a door with a window in it, behind which Baker saw him.It doesn't make sense. In Baker's first day affidavit, he mentions zilch about a doorway.

When have I ever seen a detailed affidavit - NEVER!  They just get a general statement from the witness. The way I see it - it would have made no difference had Baker of seen Oswald walking away from the steps and outside the door to the lunchroom Vs inside the door going into the lunchroom. So unless there is some difference that would make Lee look more innocent or guilty - I stand by my view that his testimony was more detailed and what happened. Not to mention that is what Truly said as well. Remember that when Truly came back to the second floor he heard voices and followed the sound to the lunchroom.

4 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Bill,

I agree with this -- however -- Lee Harvey Oswald was apparently stupid enough to hand over his rifle to a mutual acquaintance of his and Gerry Patrick Hemming on the morning of 11/22/1963  (says A.J. Weberman).

There was no "Lone Gunman."  There was no CIA plot.  There was, however, a Radical Right plot centered in Dallas that extended to New Orleans and 544 Camp Street, that cross-referenced plotters out to kill Fidel Castro.  

IMHO, the Kill-Fidel plot was LHO's actual plot, and how he was fooled into becoming the Patsy of the secret Radical Right plot to kill JFK. 

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

I have never heard of Lee handing his gun over to anyone on the day of the assassination. Is that something you read in a conspiracy book?  If he had, then that would have been the first thing that came out of my mouth when in custody and yet it doesn't appear Lee did that. And again .... the rifle that was found on the sixth floor was one that was 4.2 inches longer than the one Lee had bought earlier in the year.

3 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Bill, in Baker's first day affidavit, as you have quoted above, he stated that he saw a man walking away from the stairway. He called him and  he turned back toward him. Nowhere in that statement does he mention  any doors to any lunchroom, so how you can say "So unless there is another Lunchroom on the third floor with a set of doors (one having a 2 x 2 foot window in it), then Baker merely got the floor number wrong." escapes me. You are reading into Baker's affidavit something which isn't there.

Ray,

I understood it that the stairway was close to the Lunchroom and Baker merely used the stairway as a locator for the direction Oswald was walking away from. That was something that was important because had Lee of just ran down the stairs - he seemed rather calm and relaxed when Baker was studying his face,

4 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Yes, but not during the time-frames in question.  Starting from noon time, when the boys left the 6th floor, racing the two elevators down, and LHO called down to them to send one of the elevators back up to the 6th floor -- who saw LHO on the 1st floor?

I count nobody.   Unless I'm wrong, then LHO took the elevator to the 2nd floor, and stayed there alone until stopped by Baker and Truly.  What, specifically, did I miss?

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

There were people asked if they saw Lee Oswald on the first floor when he worked his normal job. I didn't mean to make anyone think he was seen on the first floor after the guys left him up on the 6th floor when they went to lunch.

1 hour ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Bill, do you not see that Baker changing his testimony from seeing a guy walking away from him and then coming towards him on the third or fourth floor, to seeing him thorough a glass window in a "vestibule" doorway on the second floor,  is a major problem with his  evidence? How can you rely on anything that Baker said subsequent to his first day affidavit?

No I don't see that as a problem. I remember entering the 6th Floor Museum and calling the first floor the second floor to which Gary Mack corrected me. And as I have said before - if you take the stairs ... it takes two levels of stairs to make one floor. So yes, I could see Patrolman Baker, having never been in the TSBD before, and having his mind on scanning for a gunman could cause him to be in error by saying the third floor over the second. The important thing seems to me is that he described a set of doors that led into the Lunchroom. So unless there was a Lunchroom on the third or fourth floor that had a set of doors like those found on the second floor, then Baker guessed at which floor he was on when he said he saw a man through the glass window walking away from him before he entered the Lunchroom. Baker was certainly consistent about seeing a man walking away from him and how that man turned around and walked back towards Baker when the Patrolman called out for him to "come here".

About a week or so ago, I stopped into an Insurance company and ask how to get to X-finity cable company and the lady paused and started thinking what would be the easiest way for me to get there as it was only a half-mile away from her office. She told me to go back out to the road and turn right and then stay to the left and X-finity was down three or four lights on the left. In reality I actually went two lights before turning into X-finity. The lady was trying to recall how man lights I needed to go through so to get to my destination and she was wrong, which didn't make her a xxxx - just mistaken.

Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir. There is a door there with a glass, it seemed to me like about a 2 by 2, something like that, and then there is another door which is 6 foot on over there, and there is a hallway over there and a hallway entering into a lunchroom, and when I got to where I could. see him he was walking away from me about 20 feet away from me in the lunchroom.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do?
Mr. BAKER - I hollered at him at that time and said, "Come here." He turned and walked right straight back to me.
Mr. BELIN - Where were you at the time you hollered?
Mr. BAKER - I was standing in the hallway between this door and the second door, right at the edge of the second door.
Mr. BELIN - He walked back toward you then?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.

Baker's 11/22/63 Affidavit

"As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me"

So unless there is another Lunchroom on the third floor with a set of doors (one having a 2 x 2 foot window in it), then Baker merely got the floor number wrong.

Mr. BELIN. All right. Number 23, the arrow points to the door that has the glass in it.
Now, as you raced around, how far did you start up the stairs towards the third floor there?
Mr. TRULY. I suppose I was up two or three steps before I realized the officer wasn't following me.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. TRULY. I came back to the second floor landing.
Mr. BELIN. What did you see?
Mr. TRULY. I heard some voices, or a voice, coming from the area of the lunchroom, or the inside vestibule, the area of 24.
Mr. BELIN. All right. And I see that there appears to be on the second floor diagram, a room marked lunchroom.
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?
Mr. TRULY. I ran over and looked in this door No. 23.
Mr. BELIN. Through the glass, or was the door open?
Mr. TRULY. I don't know. I think I opened the door. I feel like I did. I don't remember.
Mr. BELIN. It could have been open or it could have been closed, you do not remember?
Mr. TRULY. The chances are it was closed.
Mr. BELIN. You thought you opened it?
Mr. TRULY. I think I opened it. I opened the door back and leaned in this way.
Mr. BELIN. What did you see?
Mr. TRULY. I saw the officer almost directly in the doorway of the lunch-room facing Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. BELIN. And where was Lee Harvey Oswald at the time you saw him?
Mr. TRULY. He was at the front of the lunchroom, not very far inside he was just inside the lunchroom door.

9 minutes ago, Bart Kamp said:

Then why claim it that it actually happened.

You are wasting everyone's time here.

There are lots of postings that can be viewed as a waste of time - some even being your own. You reference a video on Prayer Man in which you called the Newman's the "Wiegman's" and no one called the video a waste of time because you misspoke. As far as my mentioning the coke - I have read that somewhere and may have wrongly attributed it to WC testimony, which still doesn't take away from the other testimony I posted pertaining too Oswald being met on the second floor. Being a hypocrite does not make your theory correct.

10 minutes ago, Bart Kamp said:

Merely a belief nothing else. You do not seem to be well aware (a pattern emerges no?) of how the DPD was operating in those days.

I have read a lot about how the DPD operated in those days, but that doesn't mean that every witness was intimidated by the DPD. There are just some people who couldn't walk ten steps across a fresh fallen snow and look back over their shoulder to see their own prints and think someone must be following them.

19 minutes ago, Bart Kamp said:

That is not what I asked!

For the 4th time or is it the 5th? Losing count already.

Please produce the document of "Oswald being seen walking towards the inner door the 2nd floor lunchroom after having just bought a coke. "

I have not found yet who referenced Lee having bought a coke, which is trivial as far as Truly and Baker meeting Lee on the second floor in the lunchroom.

2 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

Third time Bill Miller.....

Deliver or retract.

I addressed Truly and Baker's meeting Oswald half way down page 60.

2 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

Pure speculation

Not speculation, but rather probability.

1 hour ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Bill:

the witnesses did no fear HIM (Oswald), they feared of the Dallas Police Department and the FBI agents.accused people and witnesses were treated to yield one desired outcome. The well known officer from JFK investigation Gus Rose is one of the key players in this story

In the beginning I believe that no one would have had a reason not to help the police catch the real killer or killers. Oswald was thought to be a loner and Baker and Truly actually did him a favor by running into him in the lunchroom so soon after the shooting. So if someone is wanting me to believe that Truly vouched for Oswald to Baker because he was afraid of the DPD and the FBI, then I say rubbish to that.

15 minutes ago, Andrej Stancak said:

As per who was willing to testify about Oswald whereabouts, the answer is that no one. Everybody was scared to death. If you would like to understand what treatment was offered to witnesses potentially seeing things opposing the official line, please watch this recording. It was much worse in Dallas in 1963.

I do not buy that witnesses were too scared as I believe that theory has become a convenient excuse for some people. If anyone was with Lee or saw him nearby, then they would have no reason to fear him by offering an alibi for him. And once he was dead - there was no reason to fear him then either.

10 minutes ago, Andrej Stancak said:

 Oswald would be already in the vestibule or on his way to the vestibule from the domino room while Piper was trying to watch the motorcade without much success. Oswald entered the doorway from the vestibule at some point in such a way that he could be captured in Wiegman's film; Piper was still sitting at the window and was not able to see him at all.

Absolutely no one saw Oswald in the domino room - walking around the first floor - or standing outside with Frazier (Lee's car-pool buddy) - Lovelady - or Shelley - or anyone else who knew who Lee was just prior or during - or immediately after the shooting.

PS:  I am going to try and find the name of the fellow who said that he recalled Lee wearing dark or black pants the day of the shooting. I was reading other witness statements and then any names of people that was mentioned by other witnesses when I stumbled across it. Been busy, but I will stay after it because I really read it.

2 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Bill:

I see it differently. Piper was sitting next to some window in the office space area of the first floor during the shooting. He could not see anyone in the vestibule because the vestibule was separated from the open space by a wall. When Piper went back to the north of the first floor, Oswald, if he was in the vestibule, could not be seen by Piper. So, Piper may have been speaking the truth about not seeing Lee Harvey Oswald, however, this has no bearing to Oswald's presence in the vestibule/doorway.

AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS

BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared M. L. Baker, Patrolman Dallas Police Department who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

Friday November 22, 1963 I was riding motorcycle escort for the President of the United States. At approximately 12:30 pm I was on Houston Street and the President's car had made a left turn from Houston onto Elm Street. Just as I approached Elm Street and Houston I heard three shots. I realized those shots were rifle shots and I began to try to figure out where they came from. I decided the shots had come from the building on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston. This building is used by the Board of Education for book storage. I jumped off my motor and ran inside the building. As I entered the door I saw several people standing around. I asked these people where the stairs were. A man stepped forward and stated he was the building manager and that he would show me where the stairs were. I followed the man to the rear of the building and he said, "Let's take the elevator." The elevator was hung several floors up so we used the stairs instead. As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

s/ M. L. Baker

Mr. BELIN - What did you see and what did you do as you ran into the building?
Mr. BAKER - As I entered this building, there was, it seems to me like there was outside doors and then there is a little lobby.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BAKER - And then there are some inner doors and another door you have to go through, a swinging door type.
As I entered this lobby there were people going in as I entered. And I asked, I just spoke out and asked where the stairs or elevator was, and this man, Mr. Truly, spoke up and says, it seems to me like he says, "I am a building manager. Follow me, officer, and I will show you." So we immediately went out through the second set of doors, and we ran into the swinging door.

Mr. BAKER - We finally backed up and got through that little swinging door there and we kind of all ran, not real fast but, you know, a good trot, to the back of the Building, I was following him.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Then what did you do?
Mr. BAKER - We went to the northwest corner, we was kind of on the, I would say, the southeast corner of the Building there where we entered it, and we went across it to the northwest corner which is in the rear, back there.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BAKER - And he was trying to get that service elevator down there.
Mr. BELIN - All right. What did you see Mr. Truly do?
Mr. BAKER - He ran over there and pushed the button to get it down.
Mr. BELIN - Did the elevator come down after he pushed the button?
Mr. BAKER - No, sir; it didn't.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did he do?
Mr. BAKER - He hollered for it, said, "Bring that elevator down here."
Mr. BELIN - How many times did he holler, to the best of your recollection?
Mr. BAKER - It seemed like he did it twice.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Then what did he do?
Mr. BAKER - I said let's take the stairs.
Mr. BELIN - All right. Then what did you do?
Mr. BAKER - He said, "Okay" and so he immediately turned around, which the stairs is just to the, would be to the, well, the west of this elevator.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BAKER - And we went up them.

Mr. BAKER - As I came out to the second floor there, Mr. Truly was ahead of me, and as I come out I was kind of scanning, you know, the rooms, and I caught a glimpse of this man walking away from this--I happened to see him through this window in this door. I don't know how come I saw him, but I had a glimpse of him coming down there.
Mr. DULLES - Where was he coming from, do you know?
Mr. BAKER - No, sir. All I seen of him was a glimpse of him go away from me.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do then?
Mr. BAKER - I ran on over there
Representative BOGGS -You mean where he was?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir. There is a door there with a glass, it seemed to me like about a 2 by 2, something like that, and then there is another door which is 6 foot on over there, and there is a hallway over there and a hallway entering into a lunchroom, and when I got to where I could. see him he was walking away from me about 20 feet away from me in the lunchroom.

Doesn't sound like Patrolman Baker is talking about the Domino room and the meeting with Oswald came after they started up the stairs. And while this meeting was taking place on the second floor - not a single person claimed to have seen Lee Oswald on the first floor - or standing outside the entrance with Buell Frazier.

Mr. TRULY. I heard a policeman in this area along here make a remark, "Oh, goddam," or something like that. I just remember that. It wasn't a motorcycle policeman. It was one of the Dallas policeman, I think-- words to that effect.
I wouldn't know him. I just remember there was a policeman standing along in this area about 7, 8, or 10 feet from me.
But as I came back here, and everybody. was screaming and hollering, just moments later-I saw a young motorcycle policeman run up to the building, up the steps to the entrance of our building. He ran right by me. And he was pushing people out of the way. He pushed a number of people out of the way before he got to me. I saw him coming through, I believe. As he ran up the stairway--I mean up the steps, I was almost to the steps, I ran up and caught up with him. I believe I caught up with him inside the lobby of the building, or possibly the front steps. I don't remember that close. But I remember it occurred to me that this man wants on top of the building. He doesn't know the plan of the floor. And-that is-that just pepped in my mind, and I ran in with him. As we got in the lobby, almost on the inside of the first floor, this policeman asked me where the stairway is. And I said, "This way". And I ran diagonally across to the northwest corner of the building.

Mr. BELIN. When you say call up, in what kind of a voice did you call?
Mr. TRULY. Real loud. I suppose in an excited voice. But loud enough that anyone could have heard me if they had not been over stacking or making a little noise. But I rang the bell and pushed this button.
Mr. BELIN. What did you call?
Mr. TRULY. I said, "Turn loose the elevator." Those boys understand that language.
Mr. BELIN. What does that mean?
Mr. TRULY. That means if they have the gates up, they go pull the gates down, and when you press the button, you can pull it down.
Mr. BELIN. And how many times did you yell that?
Mr. TRULY. Two times.
Mr. BELIN. After you had first pushed the button?
Mr. TRULY. That is right. I had pressed the button twice I believe, and called up for the elevator twice.

Mr. TRULY. I went up on a run up the stairway.
Mr. BELIN. Could you again follow--from Point B, could you show which way you went? All right.
Mr. TRULY. What is this here?
Mr. BELIN. This is to show this is a stairway, and there is a stairway above it, too. But you went up the stairs right here?
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. Okay. And where was this officer at that time?
Mr. TRULY. This officer was right behind me and coming up the stairway.

Mr. TRULY. I suppose I was up two or three steps before I realized the officer wasn't following me.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. TRULY. I came back to the second floor landing.
Mr. BELIN. What did you see?
Mr. TRULY. I heard some voices, or a voice, coming from the area of the lunchroom, or the inside vestibule, the area of 24.

Mr. TRULY. I saw the officer almost directly in the doorway of the lunch-room facing Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. BELIN. And where was Lee Harvey Oswald at the time you saw him?
Mr. TRULY. He was at the front of the lunchroom, not very far inside he was just inside the lunchroom door.

Mr. TRULY. When I reached there, the officer had his gun pointing at Oswald. The officer turned this way and said, "This man work here?" And I said, "Yes."
Mr. BELIN. And then what happened?
Mr. TRULY. Then we left Lee Harvey Oswald immediately and continued to run up the stairways until we reached the fifth floor.

Mr. BELIN - Did you see Roy Truly coming in at all that time? Do you know Mr. Truly?
Mr. WEST - Yes, sir; that is the boss, the superintendent.
Mr. BELIN - Did you see him, do you remember, while you were eating your lunch, come in the building?
Mr. WEST - Yes, sir; I think he came in with the police.

These witnesses seem consistent in their descriptions as to what they witnessed in my view.

49 minutes ago, Bart Kamp said:

I make that decision not you.

Why don't you join ROKC, see how that pans out......

I choose not to join a foul mouthed low-brow site. Blame it on how I was raised.  

7 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Bill:

could you please be more specific as to the witness lurking in the first floor vestibule during the shooting - who was this person and can we read his/her testimony. I have just posted notes on the well-known testimonies of people who in contrast to your witness saw Lee Harvey Oswald on the first floor prior to the shooting. Thus, it is not a sort of wishful thinking of those doubting the second floor encounter, rather it is a view supported by the witness testimonies.

Aside from Lewis who Kamp mentions - It was Piper who was standing where they make coffee at the end of a counter when after the shots he started seeing people enter the building. A police officer being the first person through the door and then Roy Truly.

People did see Oswald on the first floor - doing his job.