Bill Miller

More probable than not that Calvery knew where she was during the assassination. Your not accepting who she was does not mean she was elsewhere.

Once again you fail to understand the purpose of an affidavit. It is a general statement that sets the groundwork for later testimony. It's a figure of speech given by the person who wrote the statement. Lovelady and Shelley noticed police officers running towards the RR Yard, so they walked up that way as well. I do not know of anyone who thought that both BS and BL were implying that they went arm and arm to the RR Yard with the police officers who went there ..... at least not until now.

An Affidavit is a general statement taken of witness before a more detailed interview can be given. When a line of people stand along the street and all watch the same event unfold before them - there is really no reason to think that there would be a vast differences in their descriptions. Calvery told where she was standing and some have used the statements of three other women to place her between the two road signs. One cannot help notice that to avoid the one woman in that line of witnesses who is wearing the same type of black skirt as running woman .... there is a desire to place Calvery elsewhere other than where she was originally said to be.

Truly was standing out in the intersection to which there is no film showing what happened at the moment that would cause Truly to leave that spot and move to the extension in front of the stairs leading into the TSBD. But personally I believe you read too much into what Truly said so to feed the need for something conspiratorial to feed your theory. Truly said a sudden panicked surge back from the people who had congealed around him (blue text below) is what caused him to move closer to the building. Furthermore, the start of Baker's run upon getting off his bike isn't captured on film to know if he did or did not move people out of his way when he entered the crowd, nor is there film of Baker going up the stairs to know if he pushed people aside at that time as well. To say otherwise takes a bit of telepathic deducing on your part from where I sit. Mr. TRULY. I heard an explosion, which I thought was a toy cannon or a loud firecracker from west of the building. Nothing happened at this first explosion. Everything was frozen. And immediately after two more explosions, which I realized that I thought was a gun, a rifle of some kind. The President's--I saw the President's car swerve to the left and stop somewheres down in this area. It is misleading here. And that is the last I saw of his ear, because this crowd, when the third shot rang out--there was a large crowd all along this abutment here, this little wall, and there was some around us in front--they began screaming and falling to the ground. And the people in front of myself and Mr. Campbell surged back, either in terror or panic. They must have seen this thing. I became separated from Mr. Campbell. They just practically bore me back to the first step on the entrance of our building. Mr. BELIN. When you saw the President's car seem to stop, how long did it appear to stop? Mr. TRULY. It would be hard to say over a second or two or something like that. I didn't see I just saw it stop. I don't know. I didn't see it start up. Mr. BELIN. Then you stopped looking at it, or you were distracted by something else? Mr. TRULY. Yes. The crowd in front of me kind of congealed around me and bore me back through weight of numbers, and I lost sight of it. I think there were a lot of people trying to get out of the way of something. They didn't know what. Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do or see? Mr. TRULY. I heard a policeman in this area along here make a remark, "Oh, goddam," or something like that. I just remember that. It wasn't a motorcycle policeman. It was one of the Dallas policeman, I think-- words to that effect. I wouldn't know him. I just remember there was a policeman standing along in this area about 7, 8, or 10 feet from me. But as I came back here, and everybody. was screaming and hollering, just moments later-I saw a young motorcycle policeman run up to the building, up the steps to the entrance of our building. He ran right by me. And he was pushing people out of the way. He pushed a number of people out of the way before he got to me. I saw him coming through, I believe. As he ran up the stairway--I mean up the steps, I was almost to the steps, I ran up and caught up with him. I believe I caught up with him inside the lobby of the building, or possibly the front steps. I don't remember that close. But I remember it occurred to me that this man wants on top of the building. He doesn't know the plan of the floor. And-that is-that just pepped in my mind, and I ran in with him. As we got in the lobby, almost on the inside of the first floor, this policeman asked me where the stairway is. And I said, "This way". And I ran diagonally across to the northwest corner of the building.

Molina didn't hear anyone say the President had been shot either, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen and he just missed it or had forgotten. The man standing next to him said .... Mr. BALL - And before you went back into the Building no police officer came up the steps and into the building? Mr. FRAZIER - Not that I know. They could walk by the way and I was standing there talking to somebody else and didn't see it. Mr. BALL - Did anybody say anything about what had happened, did you hear anybody say anything about the President had been shot? Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; right before I went back, some girl who had walked down a little bit further where I was standing on the steps, and somebody come back and said somebody had shot President Kennedy. Mr. BALL - Do you know who it was who told you that? Mr. FRAZIER - Sir? Mr. BALL - Do you know who the girl was who told you that? Mr. FRAZIER - She didn't tell me right directly but she just came back and more or less in a low kind of hollering she just told several people. But of course maybe by then Molina had already gone inside and that is where Calvery spoke to him. Mr. BALL. Had somebody come up and said the President was shot before you saw Truly go in? Mr. MOLINA. No. Mr. BALL. Do you know a girl named Gloria Calvary? Mr. MOLINA. Yes. Mr. BALL. Did Gloria come up? Ms.. MOLINA. Yes, she came. I was in the lobby standing there and she came in with this other girl. Mr. BALL. What did she say? Mr. MOLINA. She said "Oh, my God, Joe, he's been shot." They were both horrified. I said "Are you sure he was shot?" She said "Oh, Joe ,I'm sure. I saw his hair fly up and I'm sure he was shot" something to that extent

There is no footage showing him moving from where he was next to Cambell to where we eventually see him near the stairs. That footage is missing. So like I have said - it all depends on how Truly perceived things. Perhaps if we could see film of how Truly got from point A to point B, then a better understanding of what he said and why he said it may be learned. After all, those people in Darnell around the extension appear to be coming from Elm Street, as well as people near and on the steps. Perhaps these are part of the people Truly spoke about.

Mr. BALL. Was he an officer?Mr. PIPER. Yes; I believe he was an officer.Mr. BALL. A police officer?Mr. PIPER. Yes; a police officer.Mr. BALL. Did he have a white helmet on?Mr. PIPER. No; I don't think so. I didn't pay any attention to it. I was already excited over the shooting or something when he came running into the building. Mr. BELIN - Did you see Roy Truly coming in at all that time? Do you know Mr. Truly? Mr. WEST - Yes, sir; that is the boss, the superintendent. Mr. BELIN - Did you see him, do you remember, while you were eating your lunch, come in the building? Mr. WEST - Yes, sir; I think he came in with the police. "perception" per·cep·tion pərˈsepSH(ə)n/ noun noun: perception; plural noun: perceptions the ability to see, hear, or become aware of something through the senses. "the normal limits to human perception" a way of regarding, understanding, or interpreting something; a mental impression. Not sure what world you are talking from, but in mine this film shows Truly just to our right of the man in white who is wearing the cowboy hat. This part of the Darnell film shows Patrolman Baker running by Truly who then turns almost 180* and begins to move towards the stairs before going off-camera. Frazier said he could have missed Baker go by as his attention Mr. BALL - And before you went back into the Building no police officer came up the steps and into the building? Mr. FRAZIER - Not that I know. They could walk by the way and I was standing there talking to somebody else and didn't see it. What ever you say.

It's all a matter of perception in my view. Dave Wiegman started filming as his car rounded the corner and when his shaky film shows the view down the street and even before the limo has entered the Underpass - the crowd along Elm Street have dispersed. The street curves and any object going away from someone will appear to not be moving when its hardly moving. Attempting to pick knat dung out of pepper does not make Truly being dishonest about what he thought he saw. Studies have shown that two people can witness the same event and have a different memory of it based on how each one perceived it.

To start with you are assuming that 1 - Piper said it was a police officer, but didn't pay much attention to whether the officer had a helmet on or not. Piper does remember the officer hollering for the elevator, recalled Truly and the officer ascending the stairs together. 2 - West remembered a police officer first coming through the door and Truly entering with the police. 3 - Truly saw a motorcycle policeman (Baker) running for the stairs and followed him. Truly couldn't remember if he caught up to the policeman just he got to the door or as soon as he passed through it to the lobby. (Piper said Truly entered the building with a policeman) Truly said that he and the policeman immediately ran to the elevator and then proceeded up the stairs. 4 - The Darnell film shows Patrolman Baker running through the crowd and right past Truly. The same film captures Truly turning towards the stairs before panning away. 5 - Molina remembered seeing Truly enter the door to the front entrance of the building within 30 seconds of the shots. Makes a bit more sense when put into the proper prospective and keep in mind that all time frames given were mere estimates.

Thanks for making that clear and its probably as likely as anything else.

Molina doesn't recall seeing a police office enter the building with Truly, but two independent witnesses on the other side of the door and on the first floor did see Truly come through the door with a police officer..

So you now claim Calvery was a native American even though she puts her race at Caucasian. Interesting!

Thanks for proving something that was proven to most everyone some time ago. I think if you are going to call Calvery "Chunky", then you should address the type of clothing she is wearing in the wedding photo along with her build compared to her thin looking husband standing next to her. Then you can compare the lady at the curb in Zapruder's film with Brandt's buddy for a width/girth comparison. They seem mighty close to me just like Calvery is to her husband. Perhaps if someone blurred the image to Darnell quality, then you could better make a determination. So far I am finding references to a black skirt in the Calvery thread, but I did find a response to you from the woman (Linda) who did the Calvery orbit. Linda: Now...at the same time we can see Lovelady and Shelley trotting down the Elm Extension together. (To me in the clear anim. gif of them - i think Gerda made, didn't she? - those 2 are definitely Shelley and Lovelady. The hair, the build, dress etc... looks like them - and "Shelley" has on a black suit jacket it appears I guess at that time you had not told her that Washout Man is now Lovelady and the guy in the Hughes film with a Lovelady hairline was wearing glasses.

Calvery was obviously mis-labeled in the 11/22/63 images of women in the Plaza. That shipped sailed some time ago. Also, I have tried to always refer to the woman mis-labeled as Calvery as having "dark" skin. Can you quote where I said she was "black" skinned? And while on the subject .... you have not added anything to any of this.

Calvery was native American 'Stella Mae Jacob' - is that what you are now implying because someone suggested that theory? Please tell me I am reading this wrong.

The foolish hiding behind a tire remark just demonstrates the desperation you have to appear correct.

I don't say things unless I mean them. Remove the dress suit jacket and put on a form fitting skirt and I come up with this woman ... the only running woman who was out along the curb when JFK was shot. The same woman approaching the two men who look like Shelley and Lovelady who turns towards Billy in passing as if to say something (?) Note the shirt on the Lovelady looking figure and follow his head right through to the last frame. No mistaken the hairline here when he passes in front of the dark opening seen across the street.

Yes - time wasting games ..... Graves: " What does it matter whether or not William Shelley is visible (or identifiable) in Weigman? Do you think William Shelley might have been upstairs, foolin' around on the sixth floor? Do you think William Shelley started walking down Elm Street Extension / over to the "Island" before the first shot rang out? " Why it matters if Shelley is seen or not goes to film quality.

Calvery did not say that she and her friends were all shoulder to shoulder. I advise you read the Calvery thread to refresh your memory seeing how you posted no less than five times on the first page of that thread. The wedding photo of Calvery has her wearing a dress suit and she has been referenced as chunky which I am not certain why because she is no bigger than he very slender looking husband in the same wedding photo. Perhaps its her frontal view showing her hips? The woman seen in the light top and black skirt like running woman wore could have had the same said about her. The thing is we only see running woman in profile and at 59 years of age I have seen countless women who were curvy from side to side who were thin from back to front. In that thread we found that a black skinned woman was labeled as Calvery - obviously a long standing error someone had made. That Calvery immediately ran back to the TSBD. That a woman seen in the Zapruder film who was standing along Elm Street when JFK was assassinated was dressed like the running woman seen running towards the Shelley and Lovelady looking gentlemen who are walking away from the stairs. That Molinda said that Calvery came into the TSBD about 30 seconds following the shots. Prudhomme mentioned an interesting piece that said Gloria followed the Police Officer up the stairs. Seeing that two independent witnesses (Piper and West) who were inside the building and on the first floor when Truly and Patrolman Baker were seen as the first ones through the door and Molinda saw Calvery also entering the TSBD in the same time frame .... seems that someone like yourself who can see Lovelady in washed out film footage should also be able to see the running woman in Darnell as Gloria Calvery. - especially when there was no dust on the pavement to get kicked up so to leave anyone behind. Now about that guy who you said looked to be wearing glasses ... can you not say what you saw that made him appear to be wearing glasses or is that just something you uncontrollably blurted out?

You don't appear to study the images very close anyway, so its best you not waste your time looking at them. When you can .... show us what made you think the man in Hughes was wearing glasses.

The image is virtual mud. It's like spraying a lemon air-freshener in the outhouse after using it - the smell is still the same, but now with an additional hint of lemons.

Point out Bill Shelley in Wiegman.

You must have been in one of your coma's again as the closest photo of Gloria was taken a few months before the assassination and has been posted several times. What we did do was show that the running woman was dressed like the woman who was standing along Elm Street when the President was shot.

I see you don't mind enlargements after all. You realize do you not that this is the same quality image that caused a discussion to take place as to who was standing between Washout Man and the woman in the black scarf - that brought us the discussion over the oversized disjointed arm reaching out towards the wall - and made the woman facing west all but unrecognizable. Below is the image that brought the discussion back down to earth. By the way - here is the film that the little girl came from .... feel free to show everyone how much clearer she is when seen at regular size. You won't show any difference because there is none. You complained because you didn't like the result and only blamed it on the image I posted.

In that 30 seconds that you cite - Calvery ran back to the TSBD - nearly all the woman along Elm were gone from the curb before the limo made it out of the Plaza. The black guy fled the steps and arrived at the Island - two men, if not Lovelady and Shelley, came from somewhere who actually look like Shelley and Lovelady - and the amount of people on the stairs doubled. That is the problem you are facing with your theory/belief.