David Josephs
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Posts posted by David Josephs
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Well Greg, at least you've finally started separating "Lee" from "Harvey"... there's hope for you yet
those in the US who knew the big, slope shouldered southerner would be all that mattered... just another of the many things you can't "figer" out...
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I seem to get you, bernie, parker and the other minions going pretty well...
and nice avoiding the issues, again...
lame, just pathetic and lame the whole lot of you
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For someone who doesn't care much about the topic you sure spend a great deal of time on it - your family must getting a little too much of you since you have all that free time to spend time with them...
The cute little nicknames - for which the Parker minions are famous - have no effect here... but nice try.
You read the book yet cannot for the life of you remember any of it or know how any of it comes together... as evident from your posts, your comprehension really must be that poor.
How long have you been studying the WCR? Your understanding of that appears to be on the same level as H&L so time doesn't really help you anyway, now does it?
Where again is ANYTHING you've done on your own? Looks to me all you do is parrot Parker while bobble heading.... the family must be so proud
Ever actually write something or create an image which came from your own thoughts and post it to see if it too can stand the light of day or you like the rest - unwilling to put up or shut up...
Valenti - you remain a little wannabe, partner-posting at the big boys table. you obviously don't have any subjects you've actually taken the time to learn so keep piggy backing on Parker so he can keep your head above water.
You make me laugh out loud MV... PLEASE keep it up -
btw - I only remain "smug" for the likes of you wannabe posters believing you've come to our forum to set us all straight.... and try to do so without evidence, sources, images, links or preparation...
and then wonder and whine aloud why they get treated as they do... you read the book... now THAT is the best laugh of them all...
take you all day to come up with "Larvey" did it - or did Greg and the minions help you ?
See if they can help you with this... In October 1951 the boy on the right is a 6th grader who, when entering school in NYC in Sept 1952 is recorded as 5'4" and 115lbs.
the boy on the left, taken at the Bronx Zoo in August 1953, known to Robert Oswald as his brother yet to John Pic as not, is barely 4'10" (like the Youth House reports suggest) and no where near the size/weight of the boy on the right taken over 18 months before.
How then Mark - since you have all the "alternate" answers - does this boy shrink over those 18 months as he did over the 4 years from his departure from the Marines until his death?Both of these boys have been identified as Lee Harvey Oswald. (and yes, I did call the Bronx zoo to find out how tall those guard rails were - exactly... it's called research, try it sometime)
you might alos notice the hands on the boy on the left and the hands of the man Ruby killed... as well as the shoulder slope differences which are the same throughout their lives...
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The forum posts are a copy-paste of a piece of an older essay GP wrote...
You spend years attacking Osteopathy trying to support your tonsil ideas and the first essay of yours I read is ultimately based on the overheard Oxnard phone call and your speculations and conclusions that it had to do with Radionics and that there was any connection to what actually happened..
Funny thing is there was another call to a Mrs Tippit that went along these same lines with revelations about Oswald’s father and brother… same MO, crazy person on the phone… but no Radionics with the Tippit call… was that the problem? There were in fact many calls reported which offer glimpses of foreknowledge... but this one stands out for you.
You wrote:
"Radionics
Radionics originated in San Francisco through the experiments conducted by Albert Abrams during the early 20th century.
Originally meant as a means of remote diagnosis, it can allegedly be used to remotely affect any "target" in any way desirable.
A radionics device has three (external) working parts: a power source (your mind); an intention (what you want to affect) and; a "target" (place/person/object the energy is directed toward)."
Basically a crazy sounding women is overheard making strange disjointed comments somehow related to the president's assassination and it is determined she is talking to herself. This becomes the basis for a theory of yours about foreknowledge of 2 Dallas plots & at least 4 shooters, and then you conclude she has prior knowledge -
A POTUS is going to the south where he is hated... a woman talking to herself on a phone thinks he will be killed and is overheard... now THAT is some seriously far stretch, or not Greg.
"JFK will be killed in Dallas" was talked about by many... many more even stated that they WISHED he was killed when he came to Dallas... no matter, to you Radionics is something worth considering... yet Osteopathy is demon magic… right.
I (Greg) believe she was using radionics or a similar means of remotely affecting the assassination. I have no opinion on whether it works. At this point, that is less important than the fact that the woman believed it worked, and that she had prior knowledge of what was about to happen in Dallas. The other unanswered question: was she trying to ensure the success of the assassination, or trying to prevent it? I believe that the totality of her invocations suggests she was trying to ensure success.
Radionics Greg? Using one's mind to affect a target at some other location - and you can spend all that time on Ostepathy as an unrecognized discipline. What did you conclude in this essay?
"Conclusion:
The Oxnard call hints at a plot where two snipers were in place
(The original article tries to offer more info yet nothing related to a 2-sniper plot - ths only place in that article the word "sniper" appears is in the bold/italic sentences of the conclusion presented here.)
(wow, no stretch there... care to tie that back into her phone call at some point... it's not in the article... and the motorcade was 20 minutes late leaving Love Field, not 5. all these 1st and 2nd plots yet you offer nothing to support that conclusion but more speculation...)
The first sniper was in position for the kill shot at the location the motorcade was due to pass by at 12:10. A back-up sniper would also be in place at the Trade Mart. The fact that the motorcade was running 5 minutes late may have caused the first sniper to abort. The second sniper however, would still not be needed, as the second plot got the hit in Dealey Plaza.
So you have two plots - one with 2 snipers - at 12:10 he would be scheduled to pass the TSBD but was 20 minutes late leaving Love field - sniper #1 gone.
Yet then we have PLOT #2 which actually got him with the frontal shots in DP... what a surprise TWO plots, TWO snipers... gee, where have we heard "TWO" of things before ???
And all this from that one essay and a crazy woman in Oxnard... well done!
This first plot was planned and (almost) executed by Californian Right Wing extremists with ties to intelligence, cults and probably also to military brass and/or politicians."
We can even identify the would-be Trade Mart patsy: Russell McLarry. He was arrested after being overheard stating he would be waiting with a gun to shoot the President from a building as he neared the Trade Mart.
So what did this crazy woman say - as recorded in evidence - which helped give you the "hint" there were two snipers in place?
"The caller, continuing in the same rapid whisper, next said, "the Justice, the Supreme Court, there's going to be fire in all the windows, the Government is going up in flames." "
The caller followed those statements up with yet another recital of the courts and the words, "The Government takes over everything lock, stock and barrel. "
"The above facts brought to mind some of the practices of Wiccans, Rosicrucian and other fringe groups and cults, and so it was along such lines that further inquiry took me"
and off you go into the world of witchcraft... but that's okay cause you're a serious researcher and since this is your work, it must be okay to use as a source for your theories.
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Another part of this same essay....
You put John Pic at center stage for Ozzie's intelligence ties... he was in the PSU so he MUST be intelligence... with no sources offered to boot... doesn’t “I BELIEVE” suggest speculation on your part?
OSWALD: DID HE HAVE INTELLIGENCE TIES?
Yes – and much closer to home than the usual suspects.
Much is often made of the influence Robert had on Lee – but I believe John Pic’s influence was far more significant.
and you can still spend months attacking others when your own work is so supremely under/un-sourced, vague and speculative...
Let's spend the next few months ripping your work apart - shall we? will it serve some purpose? guess we'll see... but first you'd have to actually identify your sources...
David, this is nothing more than a 2 year old's tantrum.
If my work can be torn apart, it SHOULD be torn apart. But let me give you some advice.You need to actually do it honestly by NOT garbling the facts and mixing those garbled facts with total misrepresentations.
Go away, take a deep breath and if you still want to do this, please do - just make sure you've got your facts straight next time.
yeah, a 2 year old that can still see thru your smoke screens and the opinions which you present as factual conclusions based on sources you don't offer...
Everything I posted is what you wrote... nice avoiding the Radionics though Greg.... and the fact that nothing in that essay even begins to touch on your stated conclusions..
Two plots and at least 4 snipers... at least you're finally taking the evidence and attempting your own conclusions...
we'll just have to see if you ever post sources for these opinions and how they check out...
or if this all about getting us to go buy the books....
For those without a dog in this fight, please read the FBI report originally pointed to by Ron http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11503#relPageId=107&tab=page
and my post on that report, also pointed to by Ron http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t28-the-oxnard-riddle-explained and compare those with David's rants here, If anyone WITHOUT A DOG in this, agrees that David has accurately portrayed what those 2 links contain, please jump in and say so. I won't question an independant assessment and will address David's "concerns" on that basis.
So far you have not addressed how this actually relates to JFK (only that you think it somehow does), how the wiki-article on Radionics relates to anything but your assumptions regarding this crazy woman (which remains on par with your Asperger assumptions) or how the conclusion of that along with the original article gets you to TWO PLOTS one with at least TWO snipers and one that succeeded which we know had to be at least TWO snipers... but evidence of TWO Oswalds is simply too much for you.
The generalities which lead you to conclusions are simply amazing Greg... as long as it looks a little like a duck, makes a noise which you interpret as a quack and appears out of the corner of your eye as a waddle... it MUST be a duck and G~d forbid anyone disagree with your expert opinion and speculation.... or we get one of those dreaded "nicknames"...
Radionics, Rosicrucians, Oxnard UFOs and a Whispering crazy woman - and you have the gall to disparage H&L's real evidence and proven situations... when you're out here talking witchcraft...
We call people like that, "a piece of work" where I'm from... the do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do types....
by greg parker on Fri 30 Oct 2009, 12:00 amParker SullivanSullivan was President of the General Telephone Company in Santa Monica, California. On the morning of November 22, 1963, two of his experienced operators would overhear the forecasting of the death of JFK at 10:30AM (12:30PM in Dallas).
Sullivan, upon learning of this, contacted the FBI at 11:35AM.[1]
Mrs Doris M Bliss and Mrs Jean M Shores
Special Agent John E Keane was dispatched to obtain statements from the two operators. SA Keane was advised that Mrs Bliss, operating a toll call board, could hear a "fuzzy" sound indicating someone had a receiver off the hook, but that she had got no response when identifying herself as an operator. Then, upon hearing someone whispering, the women related how Mrs Bliss had called Mrs Shores to listen in as it seemed the person may be in trouble. It was now around 10:07 AM local time.[2]
Who was the Caller?
The caller has never been, and is unlikely to ever be, identified. The General Telephone Company at the time said the call could not be traced. All that is known is that the call originated in the Oxnard-Camarillo region and was made by a female who sounded middle-aged.[3]
How Did the Caller Sound?
Despite what some have written over the years, the caller was not at any stage hysterical. The caller was described as whispering in a rapid manner which indicated to the operators that she was reciting something that was written. When Mrs Bliss interrupted to ask if she could be of assistance, the woman replied in a clear and normal voice before returning to her "recital" in what was now described as a "definite, rhythmic fast tempo".[4]
What Did the Caller Say?
After Mrs Shores joined Mrs Bliss on listening in, the caller dialled a few numbers and said faintly, "The President is going to die at 10:10". At hearing this, both operators looked up at the clock. The time was between 10:07 and 10:08. The caller, continuing in the same rapid whisper, next said, "the Justice, the Supreme Court, there's going to be fire in all the windows, the Government is going up in flames." The two operators thought that the woman then placed the receiver on a table and there was no background noise as she proceeded to dial between 12 and 15 digits. It was at this point that Mrs Bliss interrupted. The quite normal, clear and matter-of-fact reply to this offer of help had been, "No. I'm using the phone." The interruption thus cut short, the caller continued as previously described, this time naming at least 12 courts in order of importance from the Supreme Court on down before stating that "The President is going to die at 10:30." But that was not yet the end of it. The caller followed those statements up with yet another recital of the courts and the words, "The Government takes over everything lock, stock and barrel.” That was the last thing Mrs Shores could make out. However Mrs Bliss caught the words "thermostat", "rheostat" and "heostat" before the whispers became inaudible to her as well, and she released the line. The call had lasted an estimated 10 to 15 minutes.[5]
Other Facts
Another piece of misinformation which circulates about this incident is that the predicted death of JFK had been made to a party on the other end of the line. The facts are however, that both operators stated to the FBI that at no time was there ever any other party on the line and in their opinion, no connection to another party had actually even been made.[6]
Mental State
Mrs Bliss and Mrs Shores thought that the caller must have been mentally disturbed. This is possibly what has led to the factoid that the woman was "hysterical". At this point it would be useful to revisit what the two operators actually reported her as doing and saying. To paraphrase,
•the caller spoke in a low, rhythmic rapid whisper as if reciting from notes
•she dialled a series of digits immediately prior to both times in which
she made the assassination prediction
•she was speaking for the most part, with hands free due to placing receiver on a table or some other surface
•she was not talking to any other party
•when interrupted with an offer of assistance, she replied in a normal, clear voice, before immediately resuming her "recital"
•she repeated the names of all the courts a number of times
•she used the imagery of buildings on fire
•she ended this odd behavior with the names of controls for heat and energy
The above facts brought to mind some of the practices of Wiccans, Rosicrucian and other fringe groups and cults, and so it was along such lines that further inquiry took me.
Radionics
Radionics originated in San Fransisco through the experiments conducted by Albert Abrams during the early 20th century. Originally meant as a means of remote diagnosis,[7] it can allegedly be used to remotely affect any "target" in any way desirable. A radionics device has three (external) working parts: a power source (your mind); an intention (what you want to affect) and; a "target" (place/person/object the energy is directed toward).[8] Rosicrucians (AMORC) are among a number of groups who practice and teach radionics.[9] One other believer was an inventor named Arthur Young. Young was also the step-father of Michael Paine, and had arranged for Michael to work as an engineer at Bell Helicopter.[10] Young, who had conducted radionics experiments with Frances Farrelly, took things to another level by declaring that "it was the mind of the operator that made the device function, and that it was the symbolic form of the device that dynamically functioned to make it work." This appeared particularly significant since others had discovered they could make the device work even though disconnected from its power supply. Thus, anything in fact that might substitute for the device could substitute, including a drawing of one. And so it was with the target. Where once it was thought you needed a sample of say, blood or hair from the target, now a photo or a signature would suffice.
The Ends and the Means
This was the heading used in an article published by Rosicrucian Forums magazine during 1963. The article stated that concentration was the most important tool available to the Rosicrucian and goes on to describe it as the "directing of mental processes toward a certain end. We are focusing those processes and powers upon a certain object in order to bring about a situation which we believe is to our advantage and will be to our satisfaction."
Was the Caller Using Radionics?
I believe she was using radionics or a similar means of remotely affecting the assassination. I have no opinion on whether it works. At this point, that is less important than the fact that the woman believed it worked, and that she had prior knowledge of what was about to happen in Dallas. This leads to a further question: was she trying to ensure the success of the assassination, or trying to prevent it? I believe that the totality of her invocations suggests she was trying to ensure success.
Expert Opinion
As research leads into areas of little personal knowledge, it is often wise to seek expert opinion as a guide to whether you are "on the right track". This is one of those areas, and as such I contacted Ellis Peterson, a retired maths professor and electrical engineer who writes on such esoteric practices as radionics under the pen-name, Ragnar Storyteller. I wrote to Ellis giving an outline of what I was looking into (but careful not to include anything about the assassination prediction lest it color his reply) and asking his opinion on what was happening. His reply in part was that “she was performing some kind of mental radionics magic; the phone numbers were her way of making the connection. Fire and windows were probably part of her personal incantations."
Oxnard-Camarillo Circa '63
The Oxnard-Camarillo region during the Cold War could not look more like an Oliver Stone meets M. Night Shyamalan movie set if it tried.
The area was home to:
•A Rosicrucian (AMORC) "Pronaos" (in theosophy the term "from the crypt to the pronaos" indicates the start and the end of the process by which thought can be materialized). Here then, the name itself proclaims it as the place where all your wishes can literally be made come true. The address to go? 346 North H St.[11]
•The Port Hueneme Naval Surface Weapons Center The Oxnard Air Force Base - cited as the source of UFO sightings in the area during the 1950s and '60s
•The Camarillo State Mental Hospital
RFK - An Afterword
There was a second prediction, probably very much lamented, made by Harold Weisberg. Weisberg said that RFK would be killed if he ever started checking into JFK's death. It seems that Bobby paid a visit to Oxnard to look into this mysterious call.[12] He was shot and killed the next day, allegedly by a "lone nut" - and a member of the Rosicrucians (AMORC).
ENDNOTES
[1] Commission Document 1107 - FBI Gemberling Report of 15 May 1964, pp82-3
[2] Ibid
[3] Ibid
[4] Ibid
[5] Ibid
[6] Ibid
[7] Wikipedia entry for Radionics [8] Email to author from Ellis Peterson, July 11, 2008
[9] Rosicrucian (AMORC) Digest, 1943
[10] Arthur M Young Essay, Science, Spirit & The Soul, 1985
[11] Rosicrucian (AMORC) Digest, 1957 (with street address) - still listed in Oxnard in following years, but without street address
[12] For details of RFK's efforts in Oxnard to find out about the call, see Peter Noyes, Legacy of Doubt, pp23
The Rosicrucian Order, AMORC is a community of Seekers who study and practice the metaphysical laws governing the universe.Seems pretty obvious to me that the "I'm using the phone" statement was not the same person as the whispering mad woman but a regular customer on the party line... which makes your assumption that the mad woman was a middle age woman a but suspect... but you go right on speculating all you want... when you get to some real evidence, you'll let us know.A wiki-link to the 1968 group who they say is one of the most recent which studied Rosicrucian ways.. this is what you've built your theory upon Greg? and H&L is beyond your acceptance level... whateverTommaso Palamidessi (Pisa, February 16, 1915 – Rome, April 29, 1983) was an Italian esotericist. Precociously attracted by astrology, parapsychology and yoga-tantric doctrines, he was led by his manifold interests in the field of the occult and by his intense spiritual pursuit to build up an original form of Esoteric Christianity, which he called Archeosophy. In 1968, he founded in Rome the Archeosophical Society, which is still active and counts a few thousand members both in Italy and in the rest of Europe (mainly in Germany, Portugal, and France). Chronological list of groups formed for the study of Rosicrucianism and related subjects: Archeosophical Society, 1968
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Clive - no need to decide one way or another on H&L... there's enough room in the JFK assassination literature for everyone to be right and wrong about so many things...
The bottom line point of the matter is that there could not be a photo published in the USA of Harvey... it had to be of Lee... which is why we do not see any of the "In Russia" photos ever published in mass media.
Anyone seeing a photo of Harvey during those years would easily know this was not the 5'11" thick necked Marine who spoke with a southern drawl, fought and never spoke of politics...
That image of Lee in Japan is shown at the top right and would be the only photo types we'd see until after Oswald returned...
Notice how the head area is so much more washed out than the rest of the photo... must have been a special USMC issue lens
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The forum posts are a copy-paste of a piece of an older essay GP wrote...
You spend years attacking Osteopathy trying to support your tonsil ideas and the first essay of yours I read is ultimately based on the overheard Oxnard phone call and your speculations and conclusions that it had to do with Radionics and that there was any connection to what actually happened..
Funny thing is there was another call to a Mrs Tippit that went along these same lines with revelations about Oswald’s father and brother… same MO, crazy person on the phone… but no Radionics with the Tippit call… was that the problem? There were in fact many calls reported which offer glimpses of foreknowledge... but this one stands out for you.
You wrote:
"Radionics
Radionics originated in San Francisco through the experiments conducted by Albert Abrams during the early 20th century.
Originally meant as a means of remote diagnosis, it can allegedly be used to remotely affect any "target" in any way desirable.
A radionics device has three (external) working parts: a power source (your mind); an intention (what you want to affect) and; a "target" (place/person/object the energy is directed toward)."
Basically a crazy sounding women is overheard making strange disjointed comments somehow related to the president's assassination and it is determined she is talking to herself. This becomes the basis for a theory of yours about foreknowledge of 2 Dallas plots & at least 4 shooters, and then you conclude she has prior knowledge -
A POTUS is going to the south where he is hated... a woman talking to herself on a phone thinks he will be killed and is overheard... now THAT is some seriously far stretch, or not Greg.
"JFK will be killed in Dallas" was talked about by many... many more even stated that they WISHED he was killed when he came to Dallas... no matter, to you Radionics is something worth considering... yet Osteopathy is demon magic… right.
I (Greg) believe she was using radionics or a similar means of remotely affecting the assassination. I have no opinion on whether it works. At this point, that is less important than the fact that the woman believed it worked, and that she had prior knowledge of what was about to happen in Dallas. The other unanswered question: was she trying to ensure the success of the assassination, or trying to prevent it? I believe that the totality of her invocations suggests she was trying to ensure success.
Radionics Greg? Using one's mind to affect a target at some other location - and you can spend all that time on Ostepathy as an unrecognized discipline. What did you conclude in this essay?
"Conclusion:
The Oxnard call hints at a plot where two snipers were in place
(The original article tries to offer more info yet nothing related to a 2-sniper plot - ths only place in that article the word "sniper" appears is in the bold/italic sentences of the conclusion presented here.)
(wow, no stretch there... care to tie that back into her phone call at some point... it's not in the article... and the motorcade was 20 minutes late leaving Love Field, not 5. all these 1st and 2nd plots yet you offer nothing to support that conclusion but more speculation...)
The first sniper was in position for the kill shot at the location the motorcade was due to pass by at 12:10. A back-up sniper would also be in place at the Trade Mart. The fact that the motorcade was running 5 minutes late may have caused the first sniper to abort. The second sniper however, would still not be needed, as the second plot got the hit in Dealey Plaza.
So you have two plots - one with 2 snipers - at 12:10 he would be scheduled to pass the TSBD but was 20 minutes late leaving Love field - sniper #1 gone.
Yet then we have PLOT #2 which actually got him with the frontal shots in DP... what a surprise TWO plots, TWO snipers... gee, where have we heard "TWO" of things before ???
And all this from that one essay and a crazy woman in Oxnard... well done!
This first plot was planned and (almost) executed by Californian Right Wing extremists with ties to intelligence, cults and probably also to military brass and/or politicians."
We can even identify the would-be Trade Mart patsy: Russell McLarry. He was arrested after being overheard stating he would be waiting with a gun to shoot the President from a building as he neared the Trade Mart.
So what did this crazy woman say - as recorded in evidence - which helped give you the "hint" there were two snipers in place?
"The caller, continuing in the same rapid whisper, next said, "the Justice, the Supreme Court, there's going to be fire in all the windows, the Government is going up in flames." "
The caller followed those statements up with yet another recital of the courts and the words, "The Government takes over everything lock, stock and barrel. "
"The above facts brought to mind some of the practices of Wiccans, Rosicrucian and other fringe groups and cults, and so it was along such lines that further inquiry took me"
and off you go into the world of witchcraft... but that's okay cause you're a serious researcher and since this is your work, it must be okay to use as a source for your theories.
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Another part of this same essay....
You put John Pic at center stage for Ozzie's intelligence ties... he was in the PSU so he MUST be intelligence... with no sources offered to boot... doesn’t “I BELIEVE” suggest speculation on your part?
OSWALD: DID HE HAVE INTELLIGENCE TIES?
Yes – and much closer to home than the usual suspects.
Much is often made of the influence Robert had on Lee – but I believe John Pic’s influence was far more significant.
and you can still spend months attacking others when your own work is so supremely under/un-sourced, vague and speculative...
Let's spend the next few months ripping your work apart - shall we? will it serve some purpose? guess we'll see... but first you'd have to actually identify your sources...
David, this is nothing more than a 2 year old's tantrum.
If my work can be torn apart, it SHOULD be torn apart. But let me give you some advice.You need to actually do it honestly by NOT garbling the facts and mixing those garbled facts with total misrepresentations.
Go away, take a deep breath and if you still want to do this, please do - just make sure you've got your facts straight next time.
yeah, a 2 year old that can still see thru your smoke screens and the opinions which you present as factual conclusions based on sources you don't offer...
Everything I posted is what you wrote... nice avoiding the Radionics though Greg.... and the fact that nothing in that essay even begins to touch on your stated conclusions..
Two plots and at least 4 snipers... at least you're finally taking the evidence and attempting your own conclusions...
we'll just have to see if you ever post sources for these opinions and how they check out...
or if this all about getting us to go buy the books....
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The forum posts are a copy-paste of a piece of an older essay GP wrote...
You spend years attacking Osteopathy trying to support your tonsil ideas and the first essay of yours I read is ultimately based on the overheard Oxnard phone call and your speculations and conclusions that it had to do with Radionics and that there was any connection to what actually happened..
Funny thing is there was another call to a Mrs Tippit that went along these same lines with revelations about Oswald’s father and brother… same MO, crazy person on the phone… but no Radionics with the Tippit call… was that the problem? There were in fact many calls reported which offer glimpses of foreknowledge... but this one stands out for you.
You wrote:
"Radionics
Radionics originated in San Francisco through the experiments conducted by Albert Abrams during the early 20th century.Originally meant as a means of remote diagnosis, it can allegedly be used to remotely affect any "target" in any way desirable.
A radionics device has three (external) working parts: a power source (your mind); an intention (what you want to affect) and; a "target" (place/person/object the energy is directed toward)."Basically a crazy sounding women is overheard making strange disjointed comments somehow related to the president's assassination and it is determined she is talking to herself. This becomes the basis for a theory of yours about foreknowledge of 2 Dallas plots & at least 4 shooters, and then you conclude she has prior knowledge -
A POTUS is going to the south where he is hated... a woman talking to herself on a phone thinks he will be killed and is overheard... now THAT is some seriously far stretch, or not Greg.
"JFK will be killed in Dallas" was talked about by many... many more even stated that they WISHED he was killed when he came to Dallas... no matter, to you Radionics is something worth considering... yet Osteopathy is demon magic… right.
I (Greg) believe she was using radionics or a similar means of remotely affecting the assassination. I have no opinion on whether it works. At this point, that is less important than the fact that the woman believed it worked, and that she had prior knowledge of what was about to happen in Dallas. The other unanswered question: was she trying to ensure the success of the assassination, or trying to prevent it? I believe that the totality of her invocations suggests she was trying to ensure success.
Radionics Greg? Using one's mind to affect a target at some other location - and you can spend all that time on Ostepathy as an unrecognized discipline. What did you conclude in this essay?
"Conclusion:
The Oxnard call hints at a plot where two snipers were in place(The original article tries to offer more info yet nothing related to a 2-sniper plot - ths only place in that article the word "sniper" appears is in the bold/italic sentences of the conclusion presented here.)
(wow, no stretch there... care to tie that back into her phone call at some point... it's not in the article... and the motorcade was 20 minutes late leaving Love Field, not 5. all these 1st and 2nd plots yet you offer nothing to support that conclusion but more speculation...)
The first sniper was in position for the kill shot at the location the motorcade was due to pass by at 12:10. A back-up sniper would also be in place at the Trade Mart. The fact that the motorcade was running 5 minutes late may have caused the first sniper to abort. The second sniper however, would still not be needed, as the second plot got the hit in Dealey Plaza.
So you have two plots - one with 2 snipers - at 12:10 he would be scheduled to pass the TSBD but was 20 minutes late leaving Love field - sniper #1 gone.
Yet then we have PLOT #2 which actually got him with the frontal shots in DP... what a surprise TWO plots, TWO snipers... gee, where have we heard "TWO" of things before ???
And all this from that one essay and a crazy woman in Oxnard... well done!
This first plot was planned and (almost) executed by Californian Right Wing extremists with ties to intelligence, cults and probably also to military brass and/or politicians."We can even identify the would-be Trade Mart patsy: Russell McLarry. He was arrested after being overheard stating he would be waiting with a gun to shoot the President from a building as he neared the Trade Mart.
So what did this crazy woman say - as recorded in evidence - which helped give you the "hint" there were two snipers in place?
"The caller, continuing in the same rapid whisper, next said, "the Justice, the Supreme Court, there's going to be fire in all the windows, the Government is going up in flames." "
The caller followed those statements up with yet another recital of the courts and the words, "The Government takes over everything lock, stock and barrel. "
"The above facts brought to mind some of the practices of Wiccans, Rosicrucian and other fringe groups and cults, and so it was along such lines that further inquiry took me"
and off you go into the world of witchcraft... but that's okay cause you're a serious researcher and since this is your work, it must be okay to use as a source for your theories.
---------------------------------
Another part of this same essay....
You put John Pic at center stage for Ozzie's intelligence ties... he was in the PSU so he MUST be intelligence... with no sources offered to boot... doesn’t “I BELIEVE” suggest speculation on your part?
OSWALD: DID HE HAVE INTELLIGENCE TIES?
Yes – and much closer to home than the usual suspects.Much is often made of the influence Robert had on Lee – but I believe John Pic’s influence was far more significant.
and you can still spend months attacking others when your own work is so supremely under/un-sourced, vague and speculative...
Let's spend the next few months ripping your work apart - shall we? will it serve some purpose? guess we'll see... but first you'd have to actually identify your sources...
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All of this is an EASY explanation -- rather than concocting an obviously stupid and paranoid version of a man's life.
Mark - would you take a breath already please....
There is not one or two or even 10 items of evidence and conflict in the man's life but many, many which you would be aware of if you actually studied the subject rather than ride Parker's coat tails and make obtuse comments.
If the only thing we had to consider was the language issue, you might actually have something - yet EXPERTS who have analyzed Oswald Russia speech tell us that ENGLISH was the man's 2nd language, not the other way around.
But you and the rest know better so there is becoming less and less reason to bother with your rebuttals - they wind up sinking themselves. It's the smugness of their presentation that is most amusing.
Whether something is "easier for you to comprehend" is luckily not the measure of how covert operations and longer term infultration programs worked. Just ask Larry or read Nexus.
It's as if , in your mind, the Cold War and it's participants just took all of JFK's presidency off... simply not true Mark... they had been fighting their battles real and imagined, killing people for years and trying to get info on Russia since WWII ended. That you cannot fathom the creation of spies with difficult to follow histories, doubles, triples and all other manners of "spycraft" just means to me you don't take an active interest in the time period or the context.
I also understand you and the others not wanting to take 2 years to work thru the concepts and evidence... you aint gonna learn what you dont wanna know...
So be it Mark... until you can show you have a decent grasp of the material as a whole - all you're doing is talking out the top of your head with a heavily influenced pre-concieved notion of what the material is telling you. Reminds me of a man named McAdams.
H&L could very well be the result of a focused effort to create conclusions where the evidence does not offer any... until you bother to acquaint yourself with the details - you simply have no idea other than a very general and very broad speculation based opinion. sad to say, and as we've experienced, that does not make for fertile discussion...
Hammer away at H&L and JA all you like... when one considers the value of the critque based on the extent of your knowledge... you're very easy to dismiss as someone purely guessing for the sport of it.
That critics post as if they know what they are talking about is what's most irritating.... one would think they'd take a little time to learn the subject before attacking it so poorly or offering alternate explanations without grasping the context.
Aren't there a number of subjects you actually know about and have studied that you can focus your time and effort upon and present information as the conclusion of some actual effort on your part to understand the subject - rather than just continue to whine and shirt-tail Parker about a subject you know so little about, simply because you either don't like it, don't believe it or have some beef with me personally?
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Ok Paul. At least you stick to your guns.
As for your lists of civilians... Hemming a civilian? Banister? Intel assets, ex-CIA/FBI and ex military are not, in this situation, civilians.
Good luck with your theories though Paul... We will just disagree and continue searching.
Take care
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And where can I find all the pre-publication postings of Armstrong's material again?The Straus family and a link to your posting of Dr Lee's work which you happen to agree with... as well as links to Amazon
IOW... please buy the book...
Volume 2 will be out later this year.
With baited breath. Since, when asked how any of it relates to the JFK assassination, you're answer:
"I understand that the lifestyle those into the old punk rock scene were exposed to took a toll on some, so I'll cut you some slack."
"The possibility of Gabriel Turbay (another liberal Colombian politician) having been killed by a CIA doctor may have relevance to some of the tangential murders in the JFK story."
and when it comes right down to it you'd rather play H&L games and get people to buy the book
"The Youth House/Straus family connections do come into play at various times, including the weekend of Nov 22 - but as I have already said, I'm not prepared to go into details here."
So only if you buy the book do you get the "details"...
You and JVB have so much in common...
Or any other author's for that matter...
Your vol 1 is out and all we get is Dr Lee, Korea, and some speculation. Maybe go to CTKA and check out all the work offered, pre-publication, that ultimately becomes a book.
At least someone cared enough to take the time to PDF H&L And to put all his research online so people like you can access it.
this thread is titled H&L: JA.
other than his research which produced so many images and docs from the archives That would not have seen the light of day and a theory that remains hotly debated Offering as much speculation as any of your work
What is your real problem with the man where you have done anything so differently that you can take such a high road?
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But instead of this turning this into a massive diatribe, which you deserve but won't notice, let me give you a good tip for your BYP piece: Get the best copy of the BYP prints/negs that are available and digitally enhance them to the maximum digital res (4k would be great for starters, 8 better) and then see if there are any traces of masking going on. Point that out and you have a basis for this whole cut and past job as featured in JFK the movie.
Bart....
On Nov 29th the DPD recreated the BYP with Det Brown.
Det Brown was placed in the pose found on 133-C... discovered and provided the HSCA on 12/31/76 by Roscoe White's widow
Please explain how the pose in the recreation and the pose in the ghost cutout, made 11/29/63 can be in a pose of a photo that had never been seen unless the images were already created and known about by the men at DPD who perform the recreation and cut-out...
No need to measure anything... The Evidence IS the Conspiracy
and worse, the actual 133-C image does not even work inside the ghost image... wonder how the background gets so skewed in one image vs the other..
any ideas?
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It has already been posted here. You failed to rebut it then. You want to try now?
Once again Greg... post a link to a photogrammical analysis of each of White's photos - no one offered such an analysis on these pages... they tried some lines to represent 3d space on a 2d image, but no photogrammetry was done...
"the facial measurements are exactly the same in each photo used by White" - this is your comment... right?
I think you misunderstand what photogrammetry is.
This is what it is used for:
http://www.wb.psu.edu/Academics/Degrees/32273.htm
The work produced by Stan Dane and reproduced here By Randy S shows that the distances between various facial markers in all the photos is exactly the same. With the single exception noted.
As explained Greg... lines (or # of pixels) on a 2d image of 3d reality cannot be used for measuring anything within two or more photos...
But you can make as many excuses for saying one thing and delivering another as you like... you have plenty of experience...
What's worse is that you believe that all those images of his face are even comparable... without knowing some key facts about the creation of each image... all Stan did was place some lines on some photos... get back to us when you have some science behind you...
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The Straus family and a link to your posting of Dr Lee's work which you happen to agree with... as well as links to Amazon
IOW... please buy the book...
Volume 2 will be out later this year.
With baited breath. Since, when asked how any of it relates to the JFK assassination, you're answer:
"I understand that the lifestyle those into the old punk rock scene were exposed to took a toll on some, so I'll cut you some slack."
"The possibility of Gabriel Turbay (another liberal Colombian politician) having been killed by a CIA doctor may have relevance to some of the tangential murders in the JFK story."
and when it comes right down to it you'd rather play H&L games and get people to buy the book
"The Youth House/Straus family connections do come into play at various times, including the weekend of Nov 22 - but as I have already said, I'm not prepared to go into details here."
So only if you buy the book do you get the "details"...
You and JVB have so much in common...
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Sounds good Bernie...
Which kind of brings us back tot he differences in recollections between one man who was a big man, a fighter, a sourtherner who never spoke Russian or discussed politics...
and the other whose partial record appears here... Terrible understanding yet somehow can read and write with some proficiency... just enough to get him recommended as an Aircraft Mechanic...
Would you post the information that proves he took the time to learn to read/write the language while in the Marines or before, yet had poor proficiency... doesn't usually work the other way around where you can understand and speak a language and then one learns the grammar and syntax rules?
Why do you suppose the Marines would give this man a Russian proficiency test and
do you give any credence to Gorsky's claim that Lee Oswald left the Marines in March 1959, not Sept... only a few weeks after the test
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It has already been posted here. You failed to rebut it then. You want to try now?
Once again Greg... post a link to a photogrammical analysis of each of White's photos - no one offered such an analysis on these pages... they tried some lines to represent 3d space on a 2d image, but no photogrammetry was done...
"the facial measurements are exactly the same in each photo used by White" - this is your comment... right?
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What has been shown beyond all doubt is that the facial measurements are exactly the same in each photo used by White - with the singular exception of his own faked Frankenstein image.
Then Greg - post the photogramatical analysis of all those photos stating/showing they are the same... or a link...
Who did the work, where was it done... etc.
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I have no dog in the fight over Jack White. But as to this set of photos --
-- I believe the individual depicted on the far right is not the same as the individual depicted on the far left. I don't know from where the middle two gradations came, but they are gradations, meant to convince one that all four depictions are depictions of the same individual.
But all of this is a distraction for researchers and students. The American people don't know about these depictions and could care less. The American people, to the extent they believe the Warren Commission, believe Marina's husband fired exactly three rounds from a rusted rifle in about 6.0 seconds. Hitting JFK twice.
Stop arguing among yourselfs. It's self abuse.
John, that is my work... the 2nd one over is a 70/30 mix one way while the 3rd one is a 30/70 mix the other to show the shoulders, position of features, etc...
You are correct, these are not the same man yet since there are so many here who feel it there sorn duty in life to argue the obvious, it continues.
Look what they teach in 7th grade History... when that changes to "WCR the lie" and "Oswald was not there", then we might have a chance... wonder what they teach in Australian school about that day?
Did Ozzie do it in every country's history books taught in grade school?
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Bernie posts:
Why is it such a toxic question to ask you to support the premise that the USMC were definitely measured (as opposed to a self reported measurement) with some citation? It's your theory. It's up to you to defend it. But you don't want to be challenged on this theory. You feel grossly offended that others can even think of pointing out the many obstacles in its way and that you should be given a free ride.
Bernie - it is you and the others who want to prove the USMC simply used the man's word for his height... so prove it.
We posted the USMC discharge document which gives his current information... Greg argued that during basic the marine would get bigger and taller - simply from going from age 17 to 18 in some cases and that's only a few months.. this is 3 years later.
Greg doesn't remember this now? He can argue how he got bigger, but needs us to show how the Marines work...
sorry Bernie, that's your job. We stand by what the Evidence attempts to show, a 5'11" man dies and shrinks 2 inches over 4 years - helluva trick!
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This was debunked ages ago
Just the kind of half-baked work we'd expect from you Greg...
Another one of those Lamson tricks with photography shameless referred to as complete work...
Maybe if you move the blond another 3 feet to her left she'd be even shorter!
Oswald's right heel is barely more than Marina's foot away from the wall - you can fit the entire brunette between the blond and the wall..
Talk about a Fraud...
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Civilians killed JFK -- not the Government.
Simply not true Paul... they were either in the Military or they were foreign nationals... please name a few "civilians" involved who did not have ties to the military either directly or via the CIA
what you have yet to do to date is to put forth a coherent argument to support your conclusions - only your conclusions.
You don't know who the JFK cover-up team was, exactly
You don't know who the JFK Kill Team was, exactly
Yet you can state they were enemies and 180 degress apart from each other. How does one do that without any of the relevant info other than to make a guess?
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The original from the file image on the left, enhanced as best I could to bring out some detail on the right, and the "White" improvement overlay
I get the impression that the Lee Oswald photo in the woods collage top right was not Oswald - Oswald's nose was NEVER that wide..
The idea here Greg, is that the CIA or someone provided this photo in such poor resolution on purpose. The woods collage alos suggests this image was created and is why it looks so strange when White isolated and improved it.
But the overlay is obviously from THAT image.... At some point it seems there was a much better version....
To me, with those John Woods images that David shared, it looks like the newspaper knew full well that the photo was going to look bad in print so they attempted to improve it beforehand but the experiments were not used except the blocking of the windows.
Jack White only had the newspaper and was left with no choice but to extract what he could from it.
What he brought out was not that bad when compared to what David posted on the right, in fact it's beautiful but the interpretation window was quite large. It's a good job he wasn't trying to extract a black man.
So there was no fraud on Jack's part, it's a genuine misinterpretation garnered from extremely limited data.
The image in the article itself in many respects is far worse, so it's actually a case two Frankenstein's monsters.
Well put Clive...
As I say, for every one of "them" who wants to pretend this is too hard to grasp, there are 100 of you who get it easily.
Thank you for your comment... now hopefully you wont be next on the hit list...
Take care
DJ
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Bart: I bet you have been warned quite a few times at EF, one wonders why you have not been harnessed over here
Bernie: So where's the cite that says they were measured...?
Mark: You're not paying attention to the scoreboard.
Greg: The alternative of course, is to do nothing and hope I go away. But we both know that's not going to happen.
So....
The minions have finally banded together - did you all get the complimentary overalls and shoes?
We ARE at EF Bart... and I have found that those that behave as GP does don't understand any other approach... all they want is a fight and some attention
So sorry you have such a tough time with the images... you want to look at that and claim he is 8" taller than she is - fine.
You also want to claim the USMC does not know how to measure or record a man's height - also fine.
What you read or don't, what you see or don't is up to you... I'm not here to convince you of anything, nor do I need your stamp of approval to post what I want...
When do you get around to doing any of your own work on the photos? You think you can show that the man in that image is 8" taller than the woman... have at it
But if all you got is a critique of my work without anything other than your opinions and words - who cares?
Anyone can say, "You're wrong" and then walk away...
Do something yourself... post your own photographic analsis to support what you think... or can you only critque others?
When and if he ever gets to HIS WORK - which I have found and will be posting and commenting on, something to do with "Radionics" and conclusions he reaches as a result - we can see where it goes... Someone spending such an amazing amount of time avoiding his own work in favor of arguing certainly appears to have some agenda - yet that too must remain lost to the minions.
It's sad that focusing on his/your own work remains so unrewarding that H&L has become a 24/7 obsession... Asperger's, tonsils and the USMC cannot measure - helluva great set of rebutal arguments.
Don't like my stuff? Don't read it.
Post some original work/research of yours and make a case - you have a combined 80 posts on both this and the DPF forum...
I've been doing this for over 10 years watching the coming and going of sourceless, argumentative trolls pretending to be researchers for the sole purpose of disrupting forum communities - not that I think you fall into that category in the least... if you spend time dealing with them as I have, one wonders if there is any reason for their existence other than to cause problems for people trying to have discussions and share info.
If you or he or anyone thinks there are H&L problems, and can prove them... write your own dam book, article, essay and get someone to publish it... or publish yourself like JA did.
While a select few whine about insults and implied curse words, the rest of us do the research, provide the sources and links and make the arguments the trolls feed off of and critique to maintain some self perceived level of importance and involvement...
{YAWN}
Jim starts an H&L passage with "JOHN BELIEVES..." and you post
Sorry but this is pure speculation.
well done Bart - the word BELIEVES usually conveys to the reader that this is speculation based on the information offered... but not to you and Parker and the rest of the ROKC minions?The word LIKELY does the same thing. It offers a conclusion based on available info and makes a case for it...
As for Mark, I posted the sources that tell a complete story, not some half-baked statement about the olden days... regrowth with a mean of 30 months after the age of 5... a tiny fraction of a % even experiencing the regrowth from those they KNEW performed partial operations... you have no idea what was performed on Oswald - just as much a chance it was a complete, well-perfromed operation - only Greg's SPECULATION that it wasn't is what you go on while accepting it as fact... well done Mark.
If you or the other minions ever actually get around to doing something of your own, let us know... we can all take turns ripping it to shreds...
It takes some level of bravery to keep posting one's work and thoughts when getting attacked - bravery we see none of you seem to show... unless it's about someone else's work...
Class Bart, real class.
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Harvey and Lee is available here,
https://app.box.com/s/8b408e6999f8799dfd0a
thanks to Robert Morrow, who linked to his book box in this thread:
Thanks David. Not quite what this was about.
DJ was complaining that I should post my work online "for others to rip apart". Weird really, because Armstrong doesn't do that. I have been doing that for 15 years. So yes - you don't have to fork $100 for his book. But even that's not Armstrong's doing.
"Weird really, because Armstrong doesn't do that"
So harveyandlee.net is not highlights from the book presented in webpage form with updates for anyone to read - most specifically, you.
Convince us you haven't gotten most of your ammunition from that website - a public place - and been trying to sell your Asperger's and tonsil regrowth theories for years on end with few if any takers...
since you still have not actually read the book
Other than that few paragraphs offering Dr. Lee's work about Asia... what have you shown of your own work from this groundbreaking book series?
the point remains Greg, you'd rather spend time attacking H&L then presenting your own work - keeps you from having to defend yourself or the work you've done.
(and I finally did find some of your work... all good things in all good time... turnabout will of course be fair play)
Any tme you post sources in your H&L attacks they wind up being worthless - representing either the wrong years or the wrong people...
Yet you keep making the same tired old arguments - now it's that the USMC simply asks marines their height - why bother measuring, right?
Since you forgot, I will remind you that I agreed the passage about the tonsils is written to be absolute when there is a VERY SMALL CHANCE that some of it regrew... but then again the Russian doctors see normal tonsils - so your regrowth theory remains such - a theory with very poor odds of occurring after the first 3 years of the operation... and it is much more likely that when combined with all the other H&L evidence that one man had tonsils (Harvey) and one didn't.
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Now back to the subject at hand - the creation of one Oswald record from two men...
You still think they just asked all the Marines how tall they were when discharged...? (Like asking them if they were on that boat so they could fill out the Unit Diaries - what world do you live in?)
You think the following shows a 5'11" man next to his 5'3" wife?
The 8" difference is 12.7% of her height. Even with a slight drop in the pavement, there is more than 6 inches to make up... they are both wearing low heeled shoes...
The image in that newspaper article was LIKELY created by others or is a very bad photo of LEE. Not the man shown below.
Try again GP... I'd think discussing your own work would become more important to you at some point... then being shown how wrong you are over and over...
but that's up to you.
well done Bart - the word BELIEVES usually conveys to the reader that this is speculation based on the information offered... but not to you and Parker and the rest of the ROKC minions?
The Oxnard Call
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
keep pitching Vol 1, 2 or 3 buddy... gotta be SOMEBODY out there who'll buy it...
"MY" motorcade timeline...? look just a little deeper Greg... you'll find it...