William Plumlee

Thanks John. My point exactly. I am trying to move forward with the facts of my activites as I recall them. ( I do not like to use that over worked word called "Truth") Tosh

Nancy: I posted those pictures to help those who were doing honest research. The reason I did not caption the pictures was not to lead any investigators. If they (the pictures) could be ID'ed by others then that would also show me the level and knowledge of their research.., and perhaps I could work with them toward establishing the facts of the event... Hope this helps. keep up the good work... Tosh

I'm with you on that one Tosh. Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Tim: We are all trying to deal with important issues. And, I for one would like to get on with it. Time is short. The truth is begging to be heard. Give it an honest chance. Tosh

P.S. I do not respond to any questions unless they come from established, reputable, and creditable investigators and researchers.... "... I am a retired commercial pilot and had worked for and with the United States Government for many years. Background: Military Intel in the late fifties and early sixties. Associated with Task Force W Sec- C7 during the Cuban Project and JM/WAVE, Miami Cuban Desk. I operated as an "Undercover pilot" specialized operations (CAP;Covert Action Group early sixties) I was an Operative and contract pilot attatched to "AMSOG" American Military Special Operations Group, Panama Southern Command, during the Regan Drug War and the Contra Re-supply network. I Testified four times, close door, to various Senate and congressional investigative committees ( Director FBI 1964; J Hoover) Senator Church, 1976-75; close door classified TS; Congressmen Tom Downing, before the HSCA was formed: Senator John Kerry's Committee of 1988-91. also classified " "TS Committee Sensitive" and the "Tri- State Drug Task Force, (Arizonia, Colorado, New Mexico) chaired by Arizona Govenor ,Bruce Babbit contack 'cut- out' was the Phoenix Organized Crime Div. Phoenix AZ,1975-86. I Worked with "Senator Gary Hart" and his security advisor "Bill Holden", on previous Intel maters with the NSC and the Drug War with Colombia and Costa Rico. I worked UC operations with KiKi Cammaranda and his pilot, Alveraz, before they were executed. I was a Military/DEA contract pilot, attatched with the Panama and Colombia, Costa Rico.Investigative Task Force on Narcotics. My brother is with the Dallas Police Department, attached to the Narcotics Tech OPs Div, Thank You. William Robert Tosh Plumlee aka William H "Buck" Pearson code name "Zapata" Miami Cuban Desk 1960-62 MI/CIA OMC-TFW7; Section C (locate Tab B & D classified info. portions declassified Aug 1998. Associated with Operation 40 connected to the NSC and the "White House Situations Rooms I was a contract operative for the CIA and associated with Tracy Barns, Wild Bill Harvy, Frank Bender, John Martino and many others ...". I was in Dallas at Dealey Plaza with a Military styled team to "Abort "the assassination of President Kennedy. We failed. I would be happy to provide a detailed "declaration" and United States de-classified Federal documentation of my activites, as to the events of that day, and my activites of that day, to any established and qualified investigators, law enforcement, or government investigative agencies, at their request. I will provide a detailed time line (declaration) only to established Researcher of the JFK assassination. Dated and signed this 27th day of October, 2004 by William (Tosh )Plumlee

If you guys want to exchange dirty laundry thats your right.

Wrong date written in margin.(not by me) It was April 1963 as recordered in FBI 26 and !05 files. Declassed, 1978. relreased by FOIA in 1981 to Barnard Finesterwald Jr. Tosh... Thanks Wim.

Thanks Ron. I have been trying for years to get the photo experts to look into this, (even the Dallas PD) but it always goes back to the debate of the North Knoll. Tom Wilson some years ago did look into it and he did state, to me and others, he felt that somebody was at that location, but it needed more work. Shortly after that he died. I ask Jack long ago about the photo, but he said he failed to see anyone there but never to my knowledge did any extensive work on it. Seems everybody wants to stay clear of that photo. Makes me wonder Why. Perhaps, if it is proven someone is there, then some researchers will have to retract their words and their works. Heaven forbid that. They are the X-Spurts and their livelyhood depends on what they have had to say in the past and their credibility would then be in question. Thanks again Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi, Tosh...Yes, Tom did extensive work on Cancellare but would never share it with either you, me nor Peter Lemkin. He said he saw a "person" where the shadow of the forked tree is on the grass (not where you said you were located near the steps). I did many hours of darkroom work trying to find you or ANYBODY in the Cancellare photo. I told Tom and Peter (and perhaps you) that I COULD FIND NOBODY THERE. That does not mean that there was nobody there...just that I could not find anyone. I do not say I see things when I do not. Jack <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for the reply Jack. Long time no hear. Hope your well. I was told by Tom; quote"..I did find somebody in the shadows near the fork in the tree, in the grass not far from the steps..." (grass behind the steps) I asked him if he would share that with me and others. He said 'NO! I have more work to do. I have found another person where you said you thought a shooter was on the parking lot above the truck.." I contacted you about that time and asked you if you had done any work on the picture and told you about the other shooter Tom had said he found. I was under the impression you already knew that from Tom. I was told by you and others, that you could not find anyone there, but you needed a better picture. I said, I would try and get a better copy or perhaps the Negative. I later found out that the negative had been lost (?) by life magazine a long time ago. That was the end of that. That was about the time when I got tied in with the WRONG type people due to my ignorance of which I am now sorry. Thanks anyway. I respect your work and dedication. Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks, Tosh. Peter Lemkin furnished me and Tom with a very expensive 11x14 print he bought from LIFE. He got very mad at Tom because Tom refused to return the print to him. It may have been the same print I used, because I think Peter only allowed me to photocopy it, not keep it. Do you ever hear from Peter any more? He spent years trying to prove your story true. Jack <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Jack: Peter spent years trying to wrap my story into his concepts of what he thought happen.., like most others I have been associated with over the years. I have refused to become part of that type of "one sided" closed research.. Peter's project with me started out concerning "The Cuban area, and 'Black Operations, of the time..,but changed into JFK and became an obsession with him. I pulled out of his project. Others then came to me with their private specialized projects that they wanted me to confirm. I would not, or could not.., and therefore "I do not know what I was talking about". (their quotes) I was the one who said I was there at that location in 1964 to Scott Warrner, Denver FBI, long before researchers knew of the photo.., in fact the FBI showed me a copy and ask where I was, which I pointed it out to them. I find there is a lot of twisting of facts as to who said, they said and etc.. I am trying to stay out of all that and take the 'POP Shots, thrown at me.. It is difficult. Some have so much time and money into this JFK research, that they refuse to be "OBJECTIVE" and opened minded to ALL possibilities... Thanks again... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> P>S> to previous post for Jack: I did talk to Peter a few months ago. He was overseas. It seems he lost all and the government did a number on him. (his statements) Pete is an O.K person.., just in my opinion got caught up in the Web of confussion and lost his objectivity... He seems to be happy now that he is no longer engaged in any of this.. (My observations after our talk). All his files were lost or taken by the government, IRS, and law suits, ect... strange if what he was working on was no threat... ???? Tosh

Thanks Ron. I have been trying for years to get the photo experts to look into this, (even the Dallas PD) but it always goes back to the debate of the North Knoll. Tom Wilson some years ago did look into it and he did state, to me and others, he felt that somebody was at that location, but it needed more work. Shortly after that he died. I ask Jack long ago about the photo, but he said he failed to see anyone there but never to my knowledge did any extensive work on it. Seems everybody wants to stay clear of that photo. Makes me wonder Why. Perhaps, if it is proven someone is there, then some researchers will have to retract their words and their works. Heaven forbid that. They are the X-Spurts and their livelyhood depends on what they have had to say in the past and their credibility would then be in question. Thanks again Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi, Tosh...Yes, Tom did extensive work on Cancellare but would never share it with either you, me nor Peter Lemkin. He said he saw a "person" where the shadow of the forked tree is on the grass (not where you said you were located near the steps). I did many hours of darkroom work trying to find you or ANYBODY in the Cancellare photo. I told Tom and Peter (and perhaps you) that I COULD FIND NOBODY THERE. That does not mean that there was nobody there...just that I could not find anyone. I do not say I see things when I do not. Jack <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for the reply Jack. Long time no hear. Hope your well. I was told by Tom; quote"..I did find somebody in the shadows near the fork in the tree, in the grass not far from the steps..." (grass behind the steps) I asked him if he would share that with me and others. He said 'NO! I have more work to do. I have found another person where you said you thought a shooter was on the parking lot above the truck.." I contacted you about that time and asked you if you had done any work on the picture and told you about the other shooter Tom had said he found. I was under the impression you already knew that from Tom. I was told by you and others, that you could not find anyone there, but you needed a better picture. I said, I would try and get a better copy or perhaps the Negative. I later found out that the negative had been lost (?) by life magazine a long time ago. That was the end of that. That was about the time when I got tied in with the WRONG type people due to my ignorance of which I am now sorry. Thanks anyway. I respect your work and dedication. Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks, Tosh. Peter Lemkin furnished me and Tom with a very expensive 11x14 print he bought from LIFE. He got very mad at Tom because Tom refused to return the print to him. It may have been the same print I used, because I think Peter only allowed me to photocopy it, not keep it. Do you ever hear from Peter any more? He spent years trying to prove your story true. Jack <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Jack: Peter spent years trying to wrap my story into his concepts of what he thought happen.., like most others I have been associated with over the years. I have refused to become part of that type of "one sided" closed research.. Peter's project with me started out concerning "The Cuban area, and 'Black Operations, of the time..,but changed into JFK and became an obsession with him. I pulled out of his project. Others then came to me with their private specialized projects that they wanted me to confirm. I would not, or could not.., and therefore "I do not know what I was talking about". (their quotes) I was the one who said I was there at that location in 1964 to Scott Warrner, Denver FBI, long before researchers knew of the photo.., in fact the FBI showed me a copy and ask where I was, which I pointed it out to them. I find there is a lot of twisting of facts as to who said, they said and etc.. I am trying to stay out of all that and take the 'POP Shots, thrown at me.. It is difficult. Some have so much time and money into this JFK research, that they refuse to be "OBJECTIVE" and opened minded to ALL possibilities... Thanks again...

Thanks Ron. I have been trying for years to get the photo experts to look into this, (even the Dallas PD) but it always goes back to the debate of the North Knoll. Tom Wilson some years ago did look into it and he did state, to me and others, he felt that somebody was at that location, but it needed more work. Shortly after that he died. I ask Jack long ago about the photo, but he said he failed to see anyone there but never to my knowledge did any extensive work on it. Seems everybody wants to stay clear of that photo. Makes me wonder Why. Perhaps, if it is proven someone is there, then some researchers will have to retract their words and their works. Heaven forbid that. They are the X-Spurts and their livelyhood depends on what they have had to say in the past and their credibility would then be in question. Thanks again Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi, Tosh...Yes, Tom did extensive work on Cancellare but would never share it with either you, me nor Peter Lemkin. He said he saw a "person" where the shadow of the forked tree is on the grass (not where you said you were located near the steps). I did many hours of darkroom work trying to find you or ANYBODY in the Cancellare photo. I told Tom and Peter (and perhaps you) that I COULD FIND NOBODY THERE. That does not mean that there was nobody there...just that I could not find anyone. I do not say I see things when I do not. Jack <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for the reply Jack. Long time no hear. Hope your well. I was told by Tom; quote"..I did find somebody in the shadows near the fork in the tree, in the grass not far from the steps..." (grass behind the steps) I asked him if he would share that with me and others. He said 'NO! I have more work to do. I have found another person where you said you thought a shooter was on the parking lot above the truck.." I contacted you about that time and asked you if you had done any work on the picture and told you about the other shooter Tom had said he found. I was under the impression you already knew that from Tom. I was told by you and others, that you could not find anyone there, but you needed a better picture. I said, I would try and get a better copy or perhaps the Negative. I later found out that the negative had been lost (?) by life magazine a long time ago. That was the end of that. That was about the time when I got tied in with the WRONG type people due to my ignorance of which I am now sorry. Thanks anyway. I respect your work and dedication. Tosh

Thanks Tosh, I'll update my synopsis accordingly. Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Tim. I appreciate your time on this. Tosh

Thanks Tim: I'll try to insert in italics and bold where I think clarifications should be made, and why: I'll try to keep it brief. The following is my synopsis of Tosh Plumlee's story about his involvement in the assassination in Dallas. If I have missed any particulars, please post them so that we can have a complete, but distilled version of the story. Tosh Plumlee was a Military/CIA covert operative pilot who "knew John Roselli rather well." They first met in late 1960 (could have been in 1958) or early 1961 at Biscayne Park, after coming to the park from "a meeting place called Sloppy Joe's." They were introduced by Johnny Farantello. Plumlee later says "Farentino" (as opposed to "Farantello") "was maybe Frank Sturgis or whoever."( I was asked if it could have been Frank Struges.( I replied 'It could have been, (Sturges) but I did not think so') During 1963, Tosh flew Roselli "perhaps more than 6 or 7 different occasions, to such destinations as Marathon Key, Bimini, Havana, New Orleans, Houston, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas and Santa Barbara. ( I flew Rosellie many times before 1963. I am not sure how many or starting when but I thought it was around 1960) I had flown him to the Thunderbird Inn in Las Vegas and to Burbank CA, and Santa Barbra, Ca. around 1963. Beginning November 21, 1963 Tosh has asserted that he was a co-pilot on a top secret flight aboard a D-18 twin Beach and a DC-3 supported by the CIA. ( The CIA acted as our support we were Military attached at the time The pilot was Emmanuel Rojas. Mr. Plumlee's flight left Florida on November 21, 1963, traveling from a "place called Lantana" in (outside West Palm Beach about five miles south) West Palm Beach to Tampa, where Roselli ("the Colonel") (Col. Rawlston) was picked up after staying at the Congress Inn. The plane then flew to New Orleans, where two people got off and three got on. After flying to Houston International and spending the night at the Hilton, the plane and its occupants continued on to Garland, (instead of Red Bird Airport in Oak Cliff because of weather) where they had to stop "because of weather." John Roselli and two others deplaned in Garland at approximately 6:30 a.m. After waiting for a car to pick up the three, the plane continued on to Redbird Airport in Dallas, where everybody (the others) got off and "went their own way." ( after about three, maybe four hours we continued from Garland to Red Bird arrived Red Bird 9:30, 10, perhaps even 10;30, A.M.or so.., could not remember for sure)Plumlee was under the "impression" at that time that he was "flying a team into Dallas to abort the assassination ( I was under the impression from rumors and Bob Bennette in Florida that a hit on the President was going to be made in Dallas. I was not sure that this was an Abort team until in Dallas) Some of this information was from Sergio and Rosellie) John Roselli was on board that flight as well as a couple of other Cubans and people that were connected with organized crime in New Orleans." The CIA's information about the assassination arose from the interrogations of Cubans who had plotted to fire on Air Force One with a bazooka on November 17 in West Palm Beach. At the briefing at Loxahatchee, it was "discussed where to go, how to abort, and what to look for." They concluded that they "would probably be looking for a minimum of 19 or 20 people that would be in that Plaza." The "instructions came through ... Robert Bennett and also Rex Beardsley." ( The instructions were given to the team. At that point in time I was the pilot only, and not 'quote, part of the "Abort Team" Sergio told me after the meeting what it was all about. Neither one of us took the information seriously. There had been many reports that Kennedy was going to be hit. I was told at Lantana about the two Cubans at West Palm and about 20 or so people who could be in on the assassination team going to Dallas or already in Dallas. This was not official information to me and came in background briefing information only. Sergio ask me, at Red Bird, to go to the Plaza with him as a "spotter" and told me what we would be looking for, triangulation ambush..Plumlee and "Sergio," a man Plumlee describes as "a friend" but has declined to identify, ( I have an understanding with Sergio and his family that I would never involve them in this because of deportations, immigrations matters, and the likes. I still uphold that even after Sergio has died. His family still lives; some of them in the United States. were taken to a "safe house" next to the Oak Cliff Country Club on Zang Blvd.(near Bar Harbor Dr, not Zangs Blvd) then driven to Dealey Plaza, where they attempted to spot potential assassins from their position on the South Knoll. Plumlee's original (information was that "the attempt was going to be made outside the Adolphus Hotel. And for whatever reasons, it was changed at the last minute to the Dealey Plaza." Sergio and Plumlee were attempting to evaluate the most logical places where shooters would be located, but "everything was all messed up, timing was off, people were not in... where they were supposed to be, the limited radio contacts that we had were not working." Plumlee had the impression of "4 or 5" shots, with one being fired from behind and to his left on the South Knoll. While leaving via the train tracks Plumlee smelled gunpowder. Plumlee didn't see Roselli or Nicoletti in Dealey Plaza, and hasn't provided the identity of any other person present except to identify the dark complected man standing next to the man with an umbrella as looking like "Gator," who was missing a right hand finger from a bad alligator farm incident. They "stopped in the parking lot at Ed McLemore's [sportatorium] and the driver had an extra change of clothes for both of us.( Sergio changed clothes at the Sportatorium. I did not. Sergio had got mud on his pants when he fell down the backside if the west 'Triple Underpass. The driver did not have an extra set of clothes." They returned to the safe house, then to Redbird, where they "waited for two other people for about an hour maybe an hour and a half" and then left. Plumlee had thought that Roselli was one of the people they were waiting for, but Roselli did not return and the plane departed "pretty close to 2 o'clock." On the plane were Plumlee, Rojas, Sergio, "a person by the name of Gator, and two other individuals that I didn't know." ( could have been two, not sure) The people on the flight out of Dallas were very quiet. Plumlee's interpretation of this is that "if these had been shooters or assassins themselves, I think they would have been very excited because they had carried it off. That's why I take issue with the fact that I ... CIA/ MI, had anything to do with flying an attack team in." Plumlee would later claim that he had known Oswald, first at Illusionary Warfare Training in Nagshead, North Carolina (seen him again in) then in Honolulu at a radar installation and again at Oahu's Wheeler Air Force Base, ( again in) then in Dallas at an Oak Cliff safe house run by Alpha 66's Hernandez, out of Miami. ( the house behind where Oswald had rented a room, Beckley I think) The debriefing was held in West Palm Beach by Rex Beardsley, Bob Bennett and Tracy Barnes, and according to Plumlee, "transmitted to field HQ, Miami to Bill Harvey, JMWAVE HQ., November 25, 1963." Although Harvey was replaced in January, 1963 by Desmond Fitzgerald, he continued to have involvement with JMWAVE through April and didn't leave for his new post in Rome until after a public farewell lunch in D.C. with Roselli in June, 1963. ( Harvey stayed in touch with JMWAVE OPS, until after December 1963, perhaps not official. I have always thought that Harvey had access to many debriefings after He had been relieved, including the Dallas Affair. And he still maintained contact with Rosellie until sometime after 1968). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tim I might add; Rosellie got off at GARLAND and was picked up and went to (I was told later) Love Field. Nicolettee was not on my flight and I did not see him at Red Bird. I heard that Nicolettee was in Dallas. However, I never saw him. Rosellie did not get off at Red Bird, as some have said that I said.. I have tried many times over the years to clear this matter. I never said Rosellie or Nicolettle got off at Red Bird. I have been led to say that, but I did not.. Its not open for debate. Rosellie got off at Garland. Nicolettle was NOT on my flight. I have never supported or indorsed other stories about people claiming to have been in Dallas, shooters and CIA people, or otherwise. Keep this in mind. The last time you flew on a short hop to another city. Who was on board that flight and where did they get off? Why did they get off and where did they go? You should know those things. You should have made notes and asked a lot of questions.... and get shot... Tosh Plumlee

Thanks Tim: I'll try to insert in italics and bold where I think clarifications should be made, and why: I'll try to keep it brief. The following is my synopsis of Tosh Plumlee's story about his involvement in the assassination in Dallas. If I have missed any particulars, please post them so that we can have a complete, but distilled version of the story. Tosh Plumlee was a Military/CIA covert operative pilot who "knew John Roselli rather well." They first met in late 1960 (could have been in 1958) or early 1961 at Biscayne Park, after coming to the park from "a meeting place called Sloppy Joe's." They were introduced by Johnny Farantello. Plumlee later says "Farentino" (as opposed to "Farantello") "was maybe Frank Sturgis or whoever."( I was asked if it could have been Frank Struges.( I replied 'It could have been, (Sturges) but I did not think so') During 1963, Tosh flew Roselli "perhaps more than 6 or 7 different occasions, to such destinations as Marathon Key, Bimini, Havana, New Orleans, Houston, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas and Santa Barbara. ( I flew Rosellie many times before 1963. I am not sure how many or starting when but I thought it was around 1960) I had flown him to the Thunderbird Inn in Las Vegas and to Burbank CA, and Santa Barbra, Ca. around 1963. Beginning November 21, 1963 Tosh has asserted that he was a co-pilot on a top secret flight aboard a D-18 twin Beach and a DC-3 supported by the CIA. ( The CIA acted as our support we were Military attached at the time The pilot was Emmanuel Rojas. Mr. Plumlee's flight left Florida on November 21, 1963, traveling from a "place called Lantana" in (outside West Palm Beach about five miles south) West Palm Beach to Tampa, where Roselli ("the Colonel") (Col. Rawlston) was picked up after staying at the Congress Inn. The plane then flew to New Orleans, where two people got off and three got on. After flying to Houston International and spending the night at the Hilton, the plane and its occupants continued on to Garland, (instead of Red Bird Airport in Oak Cliff because of weather) where they had to stop "because of weather." John Roselli and two others deplaned in Garland at approximately 6:30 a.m. After waiting for a car to pick up the three, the plane continued on to Redbird Airport in Dallas, where everybody (the others) got off and "went their own way." ( after about three, maybe four hours we continued from Garland to Red Bird arrived Red Bird 9:30, 10, perhaps even 10;30, A.M.or so.., could not remember for sure)Plumlee was under the "impression" at that time that he was "flying a team into Dallas to abort the assassination ( I was under the impression from rumors and Bob Bennette in Florida that a hit on the President was going to be made in Dallas. I was not sure that this was an Abort team until in Dallas) Some of this information was from Sergio and Rosellie) John Roselli was on board that flight as well as a couple of other Cubans and people that were connected with organized crime in New Orleans." The CIA's information about the assassination arose from the interrogations of Cubans who had plotted to fire on Air Force One with a bazooka on November 17 in West Palm Beach. At the briefing at Loxahatchee, it was "discussed where to go, how to abort, and what to look for." They concluded that they "would probably be looking for a minimum of 19 or 20 people that would be in that Plaza." The "instructions came through ... Robert Bennett and also Rex Beardsley." ( The instructions were given to the team. At that point in time I was the pilot only, and not 'quote, part of the "Abort Team" Sergio told me after the meeting what it was all about. Neither one of us took the information seriously. There had been many reports that Kennedy was going to be hit. I was told at Lantana about the two Cubans at West Palm and about 20 or so people who could be in on the assassination team going to Dallas or already in Dallas. This was not official information to me and came in background briefing information only. Sergio ask me, at Red Bird, to go to the Plaza with him as a "spotter" and told me what we would be looking for, triangulation ambush..Plumlee and "Sergio," a man Plumlee describes as "a friend" but has declined to identify, ( I have an understanding with Sergio and his family that I would never involve them in this because of deportations, immigrations matters, and the likes. I still uphold that even after Sergio has died. His family still lives; some of them in the United States. were taken to a "safe house" next to the Oak Cliff Country Club on Zang Blvd.(near Bar Harbor Dr, not Zangs Blvd) then driven to Dealey Plaza, where they attempted to spot potential assassins from their position on the South Knoll. Plumlee's original (information was that "the attempt was going to be made outside the Adolphus Hotel. And for whatever reasons, it was changed at the last minute to the Dealey Plaza." Sergio and Plumlee were attempting to evaluate the most logical places where shooters would be located, but "everything was all messed up, timing was off, people were not in... where they were supposed to be, the limited radio contacts that we had were not working." Plumlee had the impression of "4 or 5" shots, with one being fired from behind and to his left on the South Knoll. While leaving via the train tracks Plumlee smelled gunpowder. Plumlee didn't see Roselli or Nicoletti in Dealey Plaza, and hasn't provided the identity of any other person present except to identify the dark complected man standing next to the man with an umbrella as looking like "Gator," who was missing a right hand finger from a bad alligator farm incident. They "stopped in the parking lot at Ed McLemore's [sportatorium] and the driver had an extra change of clothes for both of us.( Sergio changed clothes at the Sportatorium. I did not. Sergio had got mud on his pants when he fell down the backside if the west 'Triple Underpass. The driver did not have an extra set of clothes." They returned to the safe house, then to Redbird, where they "waited for two other people for about an hour maybe an hour and a half" and then left. Plumlee had thought that Roselli was one of the people they were waiting for, but Roselli did not return and the plane departed "pretty close to 2 o'clock." On the plane were Plumlee, Rojas, Sergio, "a person by the name of Gator, and two other individuals that I didn't know." ( could have been two, not sure) The people on the flight out of Dallas were very quiet. Plumlee's interpretation of this is that "if these had been shooters or assassins themselves, I think they would have been very excited because they had carried it off. That's why I take issue with the fact that I ... CIA/ MI, had anything to do with flying an attack team in." Plumlee would later claim that he had known Oswald, first at Illusionary Warfare Training in Nagshead, North Carolina (seen him again in) then in Honolulu at a radar installation and again at Oahu's Wheeler Air Force Base, ( again in) then in Dallas at an Oak Cliff safe house run by Alpha 66's Hernandez, out of Miami. ( the house behind where Oswald had rented a room, Beckley I think) The debriefing was held in West Palm Beach by Rex Beardsley, Bob Bennett and Tracy Barnes, and according to Plumlee, "transmitted to field HQ, Miami to Bill Harvey, JMWAVE HQ., November 25, 1963." Although Harvey was replaced in January, 1963 by Desmond Fitzgerald, he continued to have involvement with JMWAVE through April and didn't leave for his new post in Rome until after a public farewell lunch in D.C. with Roselli in June, 1963. ( Harvey stayed in touch with JMWAVE OPS, until after December 1963, perhaps not official. I have always thought that Harvey had access to many debriefings after He had been relieved, including the Dallas Affair. And he still maintained contact with Rosellie until sometime after 1968).

Thanks Ron. I have been trying for years to get the photo experts to look into this, (even the Dallas PD) but it always goes back to the debate of the North Knoll. Tom Wilson some years ago did look into it and he did state, to me and others, he felt that somebody was at that location, but it needed more work. Shortly after that he died. I ask Jack long ago about the photo, but he said he failed to see anyone there but never to my knowledge did any extensive work on it. Seems everybody wants to stay clear of that photo. Makes me wonder Why. Perhaps, if it is proven someone is there, then some researchers will have to retract their words and their works. Heaven forbid that. They are the X-Spurts and their livelyhood depends on what they have had to say in the past and their credibility would then be in question. Thanks again Tosh

Antti: Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I will do my best to be brief on my answers. (1) Background: I was attached to a MI unit as a contract pilot. I had also been a contract pilot for the CIA for a number of years before November 1963. (1956-63.) I had previously worked for a number of aviation companies, some CIA front companies, some contract companies for "specialized operations" of which some were attached to JM/Wave's CAG (Covert Action Group) forerunner of (MASOG, of S/E Asia), and other classified sections imbedded within military operations authorised by the Pentagon. Most of our operations were Top Secret and 'cut outs' were used, as well as sequenced code names assigned to operatives, to protect the operatives and the missions from exposure. My case officers of the time were Rex Beardsly, Robert Bennette, Larry Allen, Wm Carr, and others I can't recall at the moment. Most of these operatives and case officers were associated with William 'Wild Bill" Harvey",Wild Bill" Donovan, Tracy Barnes, Robertson, and others who were previous OSS personal from WWII. I was employed By many different front companies which were (some years latter) proved to be CIA "cut-outs" and front companies of a civilian nature that were engaged in secret military contract type operations and assignments. This was during the "Cold War" with Russia. I was, or had been a pilot on arms and ammo transportation before Castro came to power and gun-running to anti-Castro operatives inside Cuba and southern Florida after 1959 I was dispatched by Robert Bennette (Be-net-tee) and another I can't recall at the moment, to Lantana Florida from Loxahatchi (?) Florida, in a D-18 Twin Beach aircraft.., We changed aircraft to a DC 3..,at Tampa Florida and picked up other personal for a secret mission into Dallas, via New Orleans. At N.O. other operatives boarded the DC-3. and others from Florida got off. My duties were the co-pilot on this operation E. Rojas, previous Cabana Airlines Captain was the Captain (pilot) for this flight. I went on Covert payrolls in the mid fifties and continued, off and on for many years. John Farentello (?) was my original recruiter for Florida. However I was first picked up at Fort Bliss, Texas AAA-RTC- D-8; US Army Military INTEL, in 1954. (RA-18389060) Captain Edward G Seiwell from Dallas Love Field, Fourth Army Reserve, was one of many case officers I was assigned to while working the Cuban Desk. (Miami/Dallas) (2) I was asked to fly as co-pilot for a group of military and CIA operatives on a mission of which I did not know at the time what it was. I found that (what the mission was officially) when in Tampa Florida from Rojas, Sergio. and Bennette. (note; I had heard a rumor at Lantana that information had been received from two Cubans in Miami that an assassination attempt was going to be made on the President. But I was under the impression it was to be in Austin, Texas, later it was said (Rosellie) to be at the Adolphus Hotel in Dallas I was not "field"operational at that time, except as the pilot for the flight. It was later, on the flight, and at Garland Texas, that I became aware of the full scope of the operation, through Sergio, Rojas, and Bennette. (3) No. I had no way of knowing what was being discussed in the back of the aircraft. It was at Red Bird, I think that I became fully aware of the scope of the operation and the routing of the Motorcade being changed to the Plaza. (4) Rojas, Sergio, Gator, and me. Perhaps there was one other but I do not know or remember for sure. If there was another it was not Oswald, Rosellie, Nicolettie (?) or anyone of that group. There were no new people who boarded at Red Bird, that I know off.(5) (5) Yes. Sergio and I discussed it many times and talked it through with others in Miami and West Palm Beach on the record and off ( as friends as well as professionals) I am in process of preparing an "Officail Transcript", if you will, and will post it soon for anyone that is interested. It will be my Official Transcript, signed my me. Something no other person or media types have. Anything in previous print is subject to question and has not been authorizations or approved by me, or supports my signatures. Thanks for the questions. Forgive the "long winded". responds. Its not easy to say a simple yes or no to these type questions. I am trying my best to be brief. Thanks again Tosh

How about this NIX FRAME which has Sitzman but NO ZAPRUDER? Jack <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Somewhere we got off track about the 'Tripple Underpass" and the possible South Knoll shooter. What about the South Knoll picture? What about the area I refered to? Is that light and shadows? Has anything been done in reference to confirming that part, or should it be sent to the trash bend. Perhaps all this north knoll and south knoll information should be sent to the trash bend. Is there any intelligent life out there? Any new thoughts that might further research into new areas which have not been explored as yet. OR, is it best to just hash old questions and concepts, and tickle eachothers ears, attempting to add three feet to our own puffed up stature. Kill the messengers. Thats the solution. Thats the best thing to do. Then we don't have to think or expose ourselves anymore and life will becomes simple once again. Tosh, Tosh

Thanks Christy. Wm. Morgan, as you know was a good friend. There was a time when the CIA wanted young men who had no home life or close to any type of normal background. They were the real "cut-outs". If one really wants to obtain a knowledge into the workings of the covert CIA and MI worlds of the time, then they should read the link you posted. This story, like most all our stories, will always be "Pro and Con", no records... no proven story... time is the key to truth.. Within the Morgan story, and his life, and others, are found the clues to Kennedy's death and the reasons. The foundation and the assassination were formed long before the shots were fired in Dallas. Thanks again, least we forget.. Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A POEM About American, William Morgan of Toledo,Ohio, a Major in the Cuban Revolution holding equal military rank with Castro. I was under the Castro spell Until the day Bill Morgan fell Our friend Fidel had him shot down And burried under red Cuban ground. It was at La Cabana where he died The victim of true patriot pride, Trijillo the murderer tried to deal With Morgan, Castro's power to steal. Dominicans landed and died in Cuba's snare Not one Trijillo soldier did Castro spare Major Morgan, soldier and hero true Saved the Revolution, not else he would do. On Bill Morgan that history did hinge Then an angry U.S. State Dept went on a binge Morgan's citizenship they would revoke Knowing he'd soon die by this infamous hoax. The allpowerful will never show mercy To any who injure their conspiracies Many like Morgan will pay this price But will live on immortal the greater life! {c} Harry Dean Morgan as an officer of the Cuban Revolutionary Army, could not, would not agree with CIA {Central Intelligence Agency} to aid the Dominican dictator Trijillo, in the attempt to overthrow Castro's Government. Morgan informed Castro of the plan. The U.S. State Department then withdrew Morgan's citizenship while leaking false information to Castro that Morgan was working with CIA. Castro beleived the false information, then had Morgan arrested and executed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Harry. I had forgot about the poem. I had seen it once before. Do you know anything about Fred Black and Ed P Morgan? I think Ed Morgan used to be an FBI agent and was in Dallas in the forties, but not sure. Some years later he was used as a "cut-out" for the CIA, sort of a money man. Also anything on a Dallas Cuban by the name of (?) Luciano who knew Odio's father in Cuba and Rosellie's trips to Cuba in 1958? Any help would be appreciated. Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tosh My areas of involvement were {mostly} Chicago/Cuba, first pro Castro, then anti-Castro, reporting to U.S. Intelligence. None of the names listed above are known to me. H.Dean I did not contact Morgan while in Cuba {July 1960} but was sweated by Cuba's G2 {since named DGI as you know} In looking back I still break a ' fearful sweat ' thinking about those lousy skunks at DGI. But my credentials cheated them, ie; {Francisco ' Frank ' Vega} just as Intelligence bet they would. Morgan was executed only a few months later. My fate would have been sealed and never got out of there if I had called on Morgan. Those bastards at G2 new every move I made, were sure I was CIA and said so. Later Vega sneaked into the U.S. and I gave him to my Intelligence Contacts! It remains always to me as terrific, to have cheated fate, and having put the screws to my former friends and associates of 26th Of July Movement, and their Network in the United States { The Fair Play for Cuba Committee } along with 'others' at Cuban G2=DGI headquarters who wanted to, and urged Vega have me shot just on suspicion. Did not intend here to get off track,and sorry could not be helpful. H. Dean <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Harry for the reply. I too, was Pro-Castro, (CIA) and after 59, anti Castro (CIA/MI) I too, knew of some of the "pit-falls" encountered in those years. We are both "lucky" if that is the word to use... heaven knows it was not because of our witts. The Good Lord takes care of stupid people. Right? On another matter: The M-26-7, Joe Westbrook Roseales, and others, also known as "The Students for a free Cuba" (DF) and the Palace Attack in Havana. Anything about the Humboldt Apartment complex? (1957) Do you know anything about this matter, or the gun-running to the students at the University? I am just tying to tie loose memories together. Its been a long time. Thanks for any help. Tosh

Thanks Christy. Wm. Morgan, as you know was a good friend. There was a time when the CIA wanted young men who had no home life or close to any type of normal background. They were the real "cut-outs". If one really wants to obtain a knowledge into the workings of the covert CIA and MI worlds of the time, then they should read the link you posted. This story, like most all our stories, will always be "Pro and Con", no records... no proven story... time is the key to truth.. Within the Morgan story, and his life, and others, are found the clues to Kennedy's death and the reasons. The foundation and the assassination were formed long before the shots were fired in Dallas. Thanks again, least we forget.. Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A POEM About American, William Morgan of Toledo,Ohio, a Major in the Cuban Revolution holding equal military rank with Castro. I was under the Castro spell Until the day Bill Morgan fell Our friend Fidel had him shot down And burried under red Cuban ground. It was at La Cabana where he died The victim of true patriot pride, Trijillo the murderer tried to deal With Morgan, Castro's power to steal. Dominicans landed and died in Cuba's snare Not one Trijillo soldier did Castro spare Major Morgan, soldier and hero true Saved the Revolution, not else he would do. On Bill Morgan that history did hinge Then an angry U.S. State Dept went on a binge Morgan's citizenship they would revoke Knowing he'd soon die by this infamous hoax. The allpowerful will never show mercy To any who injure their conspiracies Many like Morgan will pay this price But will live on immortal the greater life! {c} Harry Dean Morgan as an officer of the Cuban Revolutionary Army, could not, would not agree with CIA {Central Intelligence Agency} to aid the Dominican dictator Trijillo, in the attempt to overthrow Castro's Government. Morgan informed Castro of the plan. The U.S. State Department then withdrew Morgan's citizenship while leaking false information to Castro that Morgan was working with CIA. Castro beleived the false information, then had Morgan arrested and executed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Harry. I had forgot about the poem. I had seen it once before. Do you know anything about Fred Black and Ed P Morgan? I think Ed Morgan used to be an FBI agent and was in Dallas in the forties, but not sure. Some years later he was used as a "cut-out" for the CIA, sort of a money man. Also anything on a Dallas Cuban by the name of (?) Luciano who knew Odio's father in Cuba and Rosellie's trips to Cuba in 1958? Any help would be appreciated. Tosh

Sorry Wim: I did not know you had pictures. You can post all of them if you like. I think it might help forum members and their research. The captions on the pictures and the aircraft flown I think would be interesting subject matter for forum members. I'm finishing up on a few answers which have recently been asked on this forum. And also, ..including..., you know "The Hard Questions" and will be posting my answers and views in a day or two. I hope I am of some help here. If not, then I can go back under my rock.., to where I was before answering questions or posting anything. Later Tosh

No. Cat Cay is the place I am most familar with.

Tosh: So I want to be clear: you are saying that you know who the man is in the photos, and that he is misidentified here as Cesar, the security guard at the RFK assassination? I believe that the man with the pointer in his hand looks like this No Name Key figure: Tim: The man on the right is not Cesar. I do not know the man on the left with the hat. The man in the picture with the pointer I do not know (can't tell) The man on the right in that picture is not Cesar. Point two: These are some of the "No Name, Interpend boys alright, newbees" (which was not a CIA operation) However, this photo was taken at "Pelican Roost" a slang term for a stagging base a little north of Marathon Key, not far from Co CO Plum. Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tosh: I apologize that while I'm asking you for clarity, I was unclear. I believe that the man on the left, identified as Cesar, really is Cesar. I believe that photo may have actually been taken the night of Robert Kennedy's assassination. But the No Name Key guy he is compared with is not Cesar. I respect your right not to go further with the identification of who it is until the time of your own choosing, but yes or no, do you know who it is? Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes.

Tosh: So I want to be clear: you are saying that you know who the man is in the photos, and that he is misidentified here as Cesar, the security guard at the RFK assassination? I believe that the man with the pointer in his hand looks like this No Name Key figure: Tim: The man on the right is not Cesar. I do not know the man on the left with the hat. The man in the picture with the pointer I do not know (can't tell) The man on the right in that picture is not Cesar. Point two: These are some of the "No Name, Interpend boys alright, newbees" (which was not a CIA operation) However, this photo was taken at "Pelican Roost" a slang term for a stagging base a little north of Marathon Key, not far from Co CO Plum. Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Christy. Wm. Morgan, as you know was a good friend. There was a time when the CIA wanted young men who had no home life or close to any type of normal background. They were the real "cut-outs". If one really wants to obtain a knowledge into the workings of the covert CIA and MI worlds of the time, then they should read the link you posted. This story, like most all our stories, will always be "Pro and Con", no records... no proven story... time is the key to truth.. Within the Morgan story, and his life, and others, are found the clues to Kennedy's death and the reasons. The foundation and the assassination were formed long before the shots were fired in Dallas. Thanks again, least we forget.. Tosh

Another picture was posted,