William Plumlee

James, Is Hernandez anywhere in this photo, or do you have another showing his New Orleans involvement? Just now when I posted this I noticed the guy on the left, who is a dead ringer for this guy on the left: Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good work James and Tim. Is the person on the far left Hernandez for sure? If so, I find it interesting that he is posing, in another picture, with the Military Plans Director of Alpha-66, Narzaio Sergen some years later. AND too, possibly connected in some way with the Dallas Cubans and their safe houses in Dallas. (62-63) Can anyone ID the person on the far right? Tosh

I have a few questions for Forum members. Can anyone help me on the following:

Thanks Christy: Good Link. I think that will help all of us speak a commomd tounge. It would be good to look into TIDE and MADD ops (JM) That too, might help. I find it strange that OPS TIDE was mentioned in the FBI 105 files in 1978 declassified and sent to the HSCA, but nobody picked up on what it ment. And too, the Tide file was not released to Janet when she was beating the bushes down trying to find out what happened to her father Pete Ray. (American CIA Pilot, killed in BoP) Perhaps, the list you provided would have helped them a lot. ..OH.Yes... I forgot.. the list was still classified. how stupid of me... Hang in their little one... Tosh

Thanks John: I was not aware of all the information out there. I was not researching. I was prodding my memory about Black because I had confussed him with the Dallas Cubans and El Torres. I was just asking for help on the ID. I know or knew this person and I'm fairly sure he is one of the people I met at Mountain Lake at Hensely Field and Chance Vaught Aircraft. Over the years, for whatever reasons I have thought of him as Torres. I think this person (Black) had something to do with the death of John Rosellie, or knows who did the job and why. Anyway, thanks again for the help. I will also hold some of my information close to my chest, until I know what and who, I am dealing with. Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> John I have just briefed myself on the information your website provided to me. I want to think you for the link; I think anyone interested in the JFK matter should brief themselves on the background into Fred Black, Rosellie, and others. I am sure some will say I should have know these things. Perhaps I did. But from another view point. I hope you don't mind but I posted the following from your site. I think its important and should be followed up by those who are interested in the assassination of President Kennedy. (sometimes people do not go and read the whole site) "... 4) Drug War: Covert Money, Power & Policy: Neocolonialism (2004) Colonel Trinidad Oliva was also the key CIA contact in the Guatemalan government, working under his half-brother, the defense minister. Trinidad Oliva coordinated all "foreign aid" coming through the CIA conduit ICA, the International Cooperation Administration, the forerunner of the Agency for International Development, AID. Rosselli and Trinidad then helped the murderous old Gen. Miguel Ydígoras Fuentes, one of Úbico's assassins with close ties to mob partner Trujillo, to become head of state. Mario Sandoval Alarcón. "the father of Latin America's death squads," organized the right-wing of Castillo's party into the National Liberation Movement and hired himself out to Trinidad and Rosselli. The same year that Johnny Rosselli helped the CIA engineer the change in the Guatemalan government, he was asked by his Syndicate associates to put together Giancana in Chicago, Costello in New York, Lansky in Miami, and Marcello in New Orleans for the huge $50 million Tropicana construction project in Las Vegas. According to Fred Black, a political fixer who was close to Rosselli, Bobby Baker and Lyndon Johnson, Rosselli's influence was such that he gave orders to the Dorfmans, who controlled the Teamsters' huge Central States Pension Fund. During the 50's and 60's, it was Johnny Rosselli who "set up protection" in Las Vegas. Throughout 1956 and 57 Rosselli travelled back and forth from Mexico City, the planning center for all CIA operations in Latin America, and Guatemala City. An experienced ICA operative noted that "John had access to everyone and everything that was going on there. He had an open door at the embassy in Guatemala, and in Costa Rica. He was in there plenty of times. I know because I saw him. He supplied information to the government, and had a hand in a lot of the intrigues that were going on." This means, operationally, that Johnny Rosselli's interests became the CIA's interests. "Throughout Latin America," notes Frank McNeil, a junior political officer in the Guatemalan Embassy in 1960, "there were two American governments - one intelligence and one official." McNeil's boss, Ambassador John Muccio, learned of the Bay of Pigs invasion force being trained in Guatemala only after the story broke in The New York Times. As John Kennedy found out to his chagrin, Rosselli, his Syndicate and Batistiano allies, had more operational clout than the State Department...". Again, thanks to John Simkin. Tosh Plumlee <{POST_SNAPBACK}> P.S. to post #14: Fred Black of Washington, D.C. was a lobbyist for North American Aircraft and business associate with Bobby Baker and Clifford Jones. Black has confirmed the connection between Jones, McWillie, Baker, Ruby and ex-Cuban President, Prio. After November 22, l963, Black publicly told many people in Washington, D.C. he had informed J. Edgar Hoover that an income tax conviction against him must be reversed or he would blow the lid off Washington with revelations of the assassination conspirators. Lobbyist Black prevailed upon J. Edgar Hoover to admit error before the Supreme Court where his case was reversed in 1966. Hoover did well to rescue Black from the conviction. Fred Black, while socially drinking with acquaintances in Washington has, on numerous occasions, been reported to have told of J. Edgar Hoover's and Bobby Baker's involvement in the assassination through Las Vegas, Miami and Havana gamblers. He named some of these as the Fox Brothers of Miami, McLaney of Las Vegas, New Orleans, Havana and Bahamas, Cliff Jones of Las Vegas, Carlos Prio Socarras of Havana, Bobby Baker and others. He stated there was also a connection in that some of the gamblers were Russian emigres. Don Reynolds, Washington, D.C. businessman and associate of Bobby Baker and who had a number of questionable business transactions with Walter Jenkins on behalf of Lyndon Johnson, also gave testimony concerning Bobby Baker's involvement with the principals and he has stated on numerous public occasions that this group was behind the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Black was a stockholder with Baker in the Waikiki Savings & Loan Association in Honolulu. The other members were Clifford Jones and his law partner, Louis Weiner. There was the Farmers and Merchants State Bank in Tulsa where Jones joined Baker and Black in a stock deal and brought in a Miami pal by the name of Benny Sigelbaum, a courier of funds and documents to the Swiss banks for Permindex and the Syndicate. Of all the enterprises, none could compare with the controversial Serv-U I think this also should be considered by any professional investigator. Perhaps it has. This information seems to fit into things I remember from my Dallas days and my operational days. Thanks again Tosh Plumlee <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Questions to the Forum: (1) Is Fred Black still alive? (2) If not what happened to him? (3) Did he testified to the HSCA? (4) Has recent FOIA been released on him? (5) Is there any documentation of a connection between Black and El Torres or the Dallas Cubans? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Tosh

Thanks John: I was not aware of all the information out there. I was not researching. I was prodding my memory about Black because I had confussed him with the Dallas Cubans and El Torres. I was just asking for help on the ID. I know or knew this person and I'm fairly sure he is one of the people I met at Mountain Lake at Hensely Field and Chance Vaught Aircraft. Over the years, for whatever reasons I have thought of him as Torres. I think this person (Black) had something to do with the death of John Rosellie, or knows who did the job and why. Anyway, thanks again for the help. I will also hold some of my information close to my chest, until I know what and who, I am dealing with. Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> John I have just briefed myself on the information your website provided to me. I want to think you for the link; I think anyone interested in the JFK matter should brief themselves on the background into Fred Black, Rosellie, and others. I am sure some will say I should have know these things. Perhaps I did. But from another view point. I hope you don't mind but I posted the following from your site. I think its important and should be followed up by those who are interested in the assassination of President Kennedy. (sometimes people do not go and read the whole site) "... 4) Drug War: Covert Money, Power & Policy: Neocolonialism (2004) Colonel Trinidad Oliva was also the key CIA contact in the Guatemalan government, working under his half-brother, the defense minister. Trinidad Oliva coordinated all "foreign aid" coming through the CIA conduit ICA, the International Cooperation Administration, the forerunner of the Agency for International Development, AID. Rosselli and Trinidad then helped the murderous old Gen. Miguel Ydígoras Fuentes, one of Úbico's assassins with close ties to mob partner Trujillo, to become head of state. Mario Sandoval Alarcón. "the father of Latin America's death squads," organized the right-wing of Castillo's party into the National Liberation Movement and hired himself out to Trinidad and Rosselli. The same year that Johnny Rosselli helped the CIA engineer the change in the Guatemalan government, he was asked by his Syndicate associates to put together Giancana in Chicago, Costello in New York, Lansky in Miami, and Marcello in New Orleans for the huge $50 million Tropicana construction project in Las Vegas. According to Fred Black, a political fixer who was close to Rosselli, Bobby Baker and Lyndon Johnson, Rosselli's influence was such that he gave orders to the Dorfmans, who controlled the Teamsters' huge Central States Pension Fund. During the 50's and 60's, it was Johnny Rosselli who "set up protection" in Las Vegas. Throughout 1956 and 57 Rosselli travelled back and forth from Mexico City, the planning center for all CIA operations in Latin America, and Guatemala City. An experienced ICA operative noted that "John had access to everyone and everything that was going on there. He had an open door at the embassy in Guatemala, and in Costa Rica. He was in there plenty of times. I know because I saw him. He supplied information to the government, and had a hand in a lot of the intrigues that were going on." This means, operationally, that Johnny Rosselli's interests became the CIA's interests. "Throughout Latin America," notes Frank McNeil, a junior political officer in the Guatemalan Embassy in 1960, "there were two American governments - one intelligence and one official." McNeil's boss, Ambassador John Muccio, learned of the Bay of Pigs invasion force being trained in Guatemala only after the story broke in The New York Times. As John Kennedy found out to his chagrin, Rosselli, his Syndicate and Batistiano allies, had more operational clout than the State Department...". Again, thanks to John Simkin. Tosh Plumlee <{POST_SNAPBACK}> P.S. to post #14: Fred Black of Washington, D.C. was a lobbyist for North American Aircraft and business associate with Bobby Baker and Clifford Jones. Black has confirmed the connection between Jones, McWillie, Baker, Ruby and ex-Cuban President, Prio. After November 22, l963, Black publicly told many people in Washington, D.C. he had informed J. Edgar Hoover that an income tax conviction against him must be reversed or he would blow the lid off Washington with revelations of the assassination conspirators. Lobbyist Black prevailed upon J. Edgar Hoover to admit error before the Supreme Court where his case was reversed in 1966. Hoover did well to rescue Black from the conviction. Fred Black, while socially drinking with acquaintances in Washington has, on numerous occasions, been reported to have told of J. Edgar Hoover's and Bobby Baker's involvement in the assassination through Las Vegas, Miami and Havana gamblers. He named some of these as the Fox Brothers of Miami, McLaney of Las Vegas, New Orleans, Havana and Bahamas, Cliff Jones of Las Vegas, Carlos Prio Socarras of Havana, Bobby Baker and others. He stated there was also a connection in that some of the gamblers were Russian emigres. Don Reynolds, Washington, D.C. businessman and associate of Bobby Baker and who had a number of questionable business transactions with Walter Jenkins on behalf of Lyndon Johnson, also gave testimony concerning Bobby Baker's involvement with the principals and he has stated on numerous public occasions that this group was behind the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Black was a stockholder with Baker in the Waikiki Savings & Loan Association in Honolulu. The other members were Clifford Jones and his law partner, Louis Weiner. There was the Farmers and Merchants State Bank in Tulsa where Jones joined Baker and Black in a stock deal and brought in a Miami pal by the name of Benny Sigelbaum, a courier of funds and documents to the Swiss banks for Permindex and the Syndicate. Of all the enterprises, none could compare with the controversial Serv-U I think this also should be considered by any professional investigator. Perhaps it has. This information seems to fit into things I remember from my Dallas days and my operational days. Thanks again Tosh Plumlee

Thanks John: I was not aware of all the information out there. I was not researching. I was prodding my memory about Black because I had confussed him with the Dallas Cubans and El Torres. I was just asking for help on the ID. I know or knew this person and I'm fairly sure he is one of the people I met at Mountain Lake at Hensely Field and Chance Vaught Aircraft. Over the years, for whatever reasons I have thought of him as Torres. I think this person (Black) had something to do with the death of John Rosellie, or knows who did the job and why. Anyway, thanks again for the help. I will also hold some of my information close to my chest, until I know what and who, I am dealing with. Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> John I have just briefed myself on the information your website provided to me. I want to think you for the link; I think anyone interested in the JFK matter should brief themselves on the background into Fred Black, Rosellie, and others. I am sure some will say I should have know these things. Perhaps I did. But from another view point. I hope you don't mind but I posted the following from your site. I think its important and should be followed up by those who are interested in the assassination of President Kennedy. (sometimes people do not go and read the whole site) "... 4) Drug War: Covert Money, Power & Policy: Neocolonialism (2004) Colonel Trinidad Oliva was also the key CIA contact in the Guatemalan government, working under his half-brother, the defense minister. Trinidad Oliva coordinated all "foreign aid" coming through the CIA conduit ICA, the International Cooperation Administration, the forerunner of the Agency for International Development, AID. Rosselli and Trinidad then helped the murderous old Gen. Miguel Ydígoras Fuentes, one of Úbico's assassins with close ties to mob partner Trujillo, to become head of state. Mario Sandoval Alarcón. "the father of Latin America's death squads," organized the right-wing of Castillo's party into the National Liberation Movement and hired himself out to Trinidad and Rosselli. The same year that Johnny Rosselli helped the CIA engineer the change in the Guatemalan government, he was asked by his Syndicate associates to put together Giancana in Chicago, Costello in New York, Lansky in Miami, and Marcello in New Orleans for the huge $50 million Tropicana construction project in Las Vegas. According to Fred Black, a political fixer who was close to Rosselli, Bobby Baker and Lyndon Johnson, Rosselli's influence was such that he gave orders to the Dorfmans, who controlled the Teamsters' huge Central States Pension Fund. During the 50's and 60's, it was Johnny Rosselli who "set up protection" in Las Vegas. Throughout 1956 and 57 Rosselli travelled back and forth from Mexico City, the planning center for all CIA operations in Latin America, and Guatemala City. An experienced ICA operative noted that "John had access to everyone and everything that was going on there. He had an open door at the embassy in Guatemala, and in Costa Rica. He was in there plenty of times. I know because I saw him. He supplied information to the government, and had a hand in a lot of the intrigues that were going on." This means, operationally, that Johnny Rosselli's interests became the CIA's interests. "Throughout Latin America," notes Frank McNeil, a junior political officer in the Guatemalan Embassy in 1960, "there were two American governments - one intelligence and one official." McNeil's boss, Ambassador John Muccio, learned of the Bay of Pigs invasion force being trained in Guatemala only after the story broke in The New York Times. As John Kennedy found out to his chagrin, Rosselli, his Syndicate and Batistiano allies, had more operational clout than the State Department...". Again, thanks to John Simkin. Tosh Plumlee

Thanks James. You are a true professional and I appreciate your help on my questions. I will look over the document and if it brings matters of my memory to the surface I will share them with you... Tosh Plumlee

Do you know anything about Fred Black and Ed P Morgan? I think Ed Morgan used to be an FBI agent and was in Dallas in the forties, but not sure. Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Harry. I did receive information on Fred Black and Ed Morgan from a confidentual source and a previous investigator on the Roselli death. I posted that information, today. Thanks for your help... Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tosh, Harry & Christy, Forgive my confusion, but it seems in some of these posts we are mixing William Morgan with Edward Morgan. Any clarification would be appreciated. Ed Morgan really got around: both Roselli and Maheu's attorney. Maheu brought the Mafia and CIA together in the first place, using Roselli, and then years later was instrumental in getting Roselli's boomerang assassination scenario heard, in 1967. In 1967, Maheu was the sole conduit between that freak on the top floor of the Desert Inn, with the urine jars and 7" fingernails, to the entire Hughes Military Industrial Empire. There is a very tight and ongoing nexus among Ed Morgan's extremely high-level connections and activities. As for William Morgan, it seems that he is the one who was more directly involved in pro-Castro activities initially, and then anti-Castro and eventual execution. Again, any clarification would be great. Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes Tim. I can see where the confussion may lie. From my point of view. Wm. Morgan was in Cuba (A GOOD FRIEND) during the Revolution. Worked with the rebels went and worked Hati, then into anti-Castro.. then back to Cuba and executed. Wm. P Morgan (perhaps 'Pete Morgan') was the friend of Ed Black the person I ask the forum members if they knew anything about. I received my information from an outside source a few days later, and not from this forum. After I posted the information that I had received from my source, then immediately Forum members decided (for whatever reasons) to share their information with me and pointed out where I could have found the information on Black and Wm P Morgan, if I had just looked. Indicating that I should have looked before asking. If I had been told the information they had earlier, when I asked, then it would have saved me phone calls, time, and leg work.. Seems when they ask questions of me thats O.K. I am required to respond, but when I ask questions, most everyone ( at least the known experts) on this forum go BLANK.. Hope this helps. I am trying to stay objective and clear the cobwebs from my memories so I can be of help to forum members. I am not researching, writing a book, or trying to prove a point. I am trying to help all members. I hope I will not find this difficult.......... Thanks Tim for the reality check... Tosh

For a story to be even remotely considered plausible, there has to be cooperation from all parties at getting at the truth. Documents are nice, but they too can be forged. I had heard that you started out saying you were in the street and when shown a good Cancellare print ... you were unable to find yourself or your alleged companion. Then I heard that you thought you were on the knoll itself. For all I know you may have chosen another location since then, so my question was a fair one in my opinion. That question is simply - where exactly do you now say you were standing? At the moment I am only interested in the photographical record concerning your story. You'll have to forgive me if my question makes you feel like it doesn't deserve a straight answer, but I have had a couple of times where I met someone who told me they were in Dealey Plaza and they walked me out to the location and gave a pretty convincing story about that they had seen and heard. I then went back and looked at the films and photos and not only were they not where they said they were - no one was in that area. When I tried to get them to explain their absence from the available images which they obviously didn't know well - they too all of a sudden became defensive and didn't to deal with me. From what I recall - you have said you were on an abort mission to stop the murder of President Kennedy, but you say you were standing on the South knoll when it happened. Surely if you were in Dallas to abort the mission, then you must have been told were to go to get word to the assassins. So if I wanted to drill you on things that do not make sense - I believe I could, but all I have asked so far is an exact location where you are now claiming to be. If you are unsure where you were or are afraid that I will show that area and penetrate any shadows that you have chosen to place yourself in, then I can certainly understand your not wanting to deal with this. President Kennedy's murder was a serious matter to me and serious questions have to be raised. I don't intend on going back and forth with you and getting evasive answers. I don't want to be told you were someplace and if it's shown no one is really there - I don't want you to have to pick another location. So unless I get an updated reply as to where you say you and your alleged spotter was, then the photographical record as I no it does not support you being where I believe you have said you were. I can get details out of photos that some cannot. Just as some originally thought the man behind the truck was sitting in its truck bed bed - enhancements can clear up a lot of things. If you are where you claim to have been, then I'll find you. Bill <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Your picture: Wrong place. Wrong location on picture. Sloppy research on your part. If my credibility is nill , then you have just proven yours is less than nill. Get it together and re read other peoples post as to where I and Sergio were standing. Get your facts right before you go spouting off on things you know nothing about... Done deal.. Tosh

For a story to be even remotely considered plausible, there has to be cooperation from all parties at getting at the truth. Documents are nice, but they too can be forged. I had heard that you started out saying you were in the street and when shown a good Cancellare print ... you were unable to find yourself or your alleged companion. Then I heard that you thought you were on the knoll itself. For all I know you may have chosen another location since then, so my question was a fair one in my opinion. That question is simply - where exactly do you now say you were standing? At the moment I am only interested in the photographical record concerning your story. You'll have to forgive me if my question makes you feel like it doesn't deserve a straight answer, but I have had a couple of times where I met someone who told me they were in Dealey Plaza and they walked me out to the location and gave a pretty convincing story about that they had seen and heard. I then went back and looked at the films and photos and not only were they not where they said they were - no one was in that area. When I tried to get them to explain their absence from the available images which they obviously didn't know well - they too all of a sudden became defensive and didn't to deal with me. From what I recall - you have said you were on an abort mission to stop the murder of President Kennedy, but you say you were standing on the South knoll when it happened. Surely if you were in Dallas to abort the mission, then you must have been told were to go to get word to the assassins. So if I wanted to drill you on things that do not make sense - I believe I could, but all I have asked so far is an exact location where you are now claiming to be. If you are unsure where you were or are afraid that I will show that area and penetrate any shadows that you have chosen to place yourself in, then I can certainly understand your not wanting to deal with this. President Kennedy's murder was a serious matter to me and serious questions have to be raised. I don't intend on going back and forth with you and getting evasive answers. I don't want to be told you were someplace and if it's shown no one is really there - I don't want you to have to pick another location. So unless I get an updated reply as to where you say you and your alleged spotter was, then the photographical record as I no it does not support you being where I believe you have said you were. I can get details out of photos that some cannot. Just as some originally thought the man behind the truck was sitting in its truck bed bed - enhancements can clear up a lot of things. If you are where you claim to have been, then I'll find you. Bill <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nor do I intend on going back and forth with you. Your quote: ".... I had heard that you started out saying you were in the street and when shown a good Cancellare print ... you were unable to find yourself or your alleged companion. Then I heard that you thought you were on the knoll itself. For all I know you may have chosen another location since then, so my question was a fair one in my opinion. That question is simply - where exactly do you now say you were standing?..". You have heard from others as to what they have said I said. I have never changed my statements as to where I was standing, to you are anyone. In fact I have never talked to you or told you anything about that day or where I was or doing. You assumed from others that I have changed my position and now your trying to imply I am dishonest and dis-information. I have dealt with your kind before. I am on record for many years stating where Sergio and I were located at the time the shots were fired. If you choose to listen to others telling you what they say I said, and now present what you have heardt as fact, then that tells me a lot about your qualifications as a researcher. I have tried to be fair with you and all forum members. In my opinon, it is researchers like you with closed minds and preconcieved concepts based on your own ego and concieted self worth that make it hard for the hard working honest researchers to do their job. I'm sorry for you. Think what you want. But, as far as I am concern.., go peddle concepts somewhere else.. With all due respect. I mean that in the most positive way. Tosh Plumlee

Would that be the Hernandez of the Dallas Oak Cliff Cubans who had the safe house on Zangs Blvd and Harlendale Streets? The gun-running Hernandez, also known as Cecil Farnandez?

Is the man on the left Virgillio Gonzalez Or one of the hands Enrico (?) Martiniz who worked on the Radier ship "Rex"? digging into memories. Tosh

Off hand, No. But, I am not sure. I have seen this person before. In fact I think I have met him at the Old A-66 HQ in Little Havana before they moved to their new HQ. That would have been around 1970 or so..,( the old HQ) perhaps 72. Looks like a person who hung around 'Sloppy Joes" and Bay Front Park about 1962. I think the picture was from around 1970. Do you know who he is. Again, Thanks a lot for the information.. It helps me get focused. ( To little girls at the Photogaphers: "...Be Still Lieza... He gonna Focus" The other little girl asked, "Bowfus Us?") I'm sick. A long day, forgive. Tosh

Thanks James. Very informative. I knew they were still doing missions as late as 1968-69. I had gone to the site in the Everglades about 1967, and another one in 1991, but not as an operative. I knew Alpha 66 was still very active. I think Narzario Sergen was "Military plans director" about that time, I think, but not sure. The place I went to in the Everglades was called by some..., "The Farm". Anything on that stagging area or trainning site will be appreciated. If I remember, there was a Communications site not far away.. Thanks again for the memory jog..., Tosh

I agree, but politics finds its way into those institutions and prevents such things from happening. I believe that is what happened with MIT and Jack's images he wanted them to see. I think they appeared interested thinking it would not go anywhere until they seen the Badge Man and what he looked to be doing and then realized that they could not get involved with this, thus they sent the material back to Jack. Jack can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is what he told me once in an email. There is no such thing as "beyond a reasonable doubt" in this case unless you have a film of someone in the act. However, there can be really strong circumstantial evidence showing the high probability of this happening and cases have been won on such evidence. Let's recap the evidence .... 1)Sam Holland and no less than five co-workers heard a shot come from the trees at the moment JFK was fatally hit and watched a cloud of smoke get propelled through the foliage towards the street. This smoke was seen by people on the east and south sides of the knoll, as well. (see attachment 1) 2)There is a film that shows this smoke drifting towards the street. If one removed the bad frames and overlays the good ones - they can be put in motion so to look for moment. (see attachment 2} 3)When officer's ran to this suspected area, they smelled a distinct odor of burnt gunpowder. At the time of the shooting the wind was blowing from the RR yard towards Houston Street, thus if the burnt gunpowder smell didn't come from the RR yard, then from where? The burnt gunpowder odor, like the smoke, had to travel the path of the wind. It makes no sense that someone fired a shot at anything while further back northwest into the parking lot, nor has anyone claimed to have done so. (see attachment 3) 4) If not assassins or conspirators, then at least 2 people who both Bowers and Hoffman seen had vanishied into history without so much as coming forward to say that all was well in the RR yard. While Bowers claims to have taken his eye off the Hat Man (which I do not believe), Hoffman said that a man turned away from the fence and had a long gun/rifle with him. Hoffman said that the man went towards the steam pipe and tossed the gun to another man. At the same moment in time, a RR worker who was on the overpass told Seymour Weitzman that shortly after the assassination he had seen something through the trees being tossed. When Weiztman asked where exactly did this occur, the RR worker said 'over by the steam pipe'. 5)Then there is the direction that the bulk of the brain matter and debris was thrown out the back of the President's head. It was Hargis and Martin that got the worst of it. 6)The avulsed bones protruding outward in JFK's scalp is undeniable evidence of a frontal shot. This evidence was so damaging that an attempt was made by the Commission to not address it each time a Parkland doctor referenced it in their testimony. So in my view there is certainly good evidence for a knoll shooter and much more of it than there is for a South knoll shooter. They may have been caught had there not been people in that area with false credentials turning people away and working as a look out. There would have to be assurances that they would be protected and that seems to have been the case when Officer Joe Smith met one if them who claimed to be with the Secret Service. Such imposters were also reported to be ebhind the TSBD, which would be handy in the event that those who risked firing from a 6th floor of a building would be able to esacpe before the police would have blocked off their exits. As one may remember - a shooter was seen on the 6th floor and was said to have remained at the window for a short period and he and his cohorts were still able to leave the building unmolested and without fear of being caught. Where on the North knoll were these alleged spotters supposed to be? I have access to the entire knoll by cross referencing the available assassination films and photos - I will be happy to find them or point out that there is no one there - whichever the case may be. As you should know - such Ops also use disinformation after the fact. Such disinformation could come in the way of someone like yourself claiming to be somewhere he was not. It could come in the way by giving an opinion about there not being a shooter on the knoll, but not explaining why the circumstantial evidence doesn't make a case for it. It could come in the way of making points about such shooters not risking getting caught while not telling how people with fake SS badges were met in the same area or explaining what their purpose was. Then there is the wind and burnt gunpodwer issues that were not touched upon. So I hope you don't mind me asking some common sense questions here that need to be asked. Now if you could tell me exactly where you and your spotter friend were standing - it would be a good start in getting comfirmation for what you have said or exposing a tall tale. I'll offer the best images I can either way. As someone once said, "Let justice be done though the Heavens fall." Bill <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank You. I respect your thoughts and theroies. If you would read previous post and pay attention to what others have said on the subject matter and the information which has been presented by them, you would know where I was standing. Is it possible to broaden your concepts and help this "dis-information" person? Thanks any help would be appreciated. Tosh Plumlee. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ' Your quotes"...."There is no such thing as "beyond a reasonable doubt" in this case unless you have a film of someone in the act. However, there can be really strong circumstantial evidence showing the high probability of this happening and cases have been won on such evidence. Let's recap the evidence" .... Well thats nice. You prove my point. I feel I have presented a world of information and documentation, and detailed government documentation, and "dovetailed" events for a number of years, as to my previous activites and knowledge of the events of the time. I fell I have presented enough "circumstantial evidence" that qualifies me to at least express my thoughts on the subject matter you introduced. How did you say it? " a strong circumstantial evidence showing the high probability of this happening..". If this statement works for you?... why not for me? Are you that "closed minded"? If so I do not want to deal with you. Thanks again for any "factual" information you care to share with me or the Forum. It would be appreciated. Tosh Plumlee

I agree, but politics finds its way into those institutions and prevents such things from happening. I believe that is what happened with MIT and Jack's images he wanted them to see. I think they appeared interested thinking it would not go anywhere until they seen the Badge Man and what he looked to be doing and then realized that they could not get involved with this, thus they sent the material back to Jack. Jack can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is what he told me once in an email. There is no such thing as "beyond a reasonable doubt" in this case unless you have a film of someone in the act. However, there can be really strong circumstantial evidence showing the high probability of this happening and cases have been won on such evidence. Let's recap the evidence .... 1)Sam Holland and no less than five co-workers heard a shot come from the trees at the moment JFK was fatally hit and watched a cloud of smoke get propelled through the foliage towards the street. This smoke was seen by people on the east and south sides of the knoll, as well. (see attachment 1) 2)There is a film that shows this smoke drifting towards the street. If one removed the bad frames and overlays the good ones - they can be put in motion so to look for moment. (see attachment 2} 3)When officer's ran to this suspected area, they smelled a distinct odor of burnt gunpowder. At the time of the shooting the wind was blowing from the RR yard towards Houston Street, thus if the burnt gunpowder smell didn't come from the RR yard, then from where? The burnt gunpowder odor, like the smoke, had to travel the path of the wind. It makes no sense that someone fired a shot at anything while further back northwest into the parking lot, nor has anyone claimed to have done so. (see attachment 3) 4) If not assassins or conspirators, then at least 2 people who both Bowers and Hoffman seen had vanishied into history without so much as coming forward to say that all was well in the RR yard. While Bowers claims to have taken his eye off the Hat Man (which I do not believe), Hoffman said that a man turned away from the fence and had a long gun/rifle with him. Hoffman said that the man went towards the steam pipe and tossed the gun to another man. At the same moment in time, a RR worker who was on the overpass told Seymour Weitzman that shortly after the assassination he had seen something through the trees being tossed. When Weiztman asked where exactly did this occur, the RR worker said 'over by the steam pipe'. 5)Then there is the direction that the bulk of the brain matter and debris was thrown out the back of the President's head. It was Hargis and Martin that got the worst of it. 6)The avulsed bones protruding outward in JFK's scalp is undeniable evidence of a frontal shot. This evidence was so damaging that an attempt was made by the Commission to not address it each time a Parkland doctor referenced it in their testimony. So in my view there is certainly good evidence for a knoll shooter and much more of it than there is for a South knoll shooter. They may have been caught had there not been people in that area with false credentials turning people away and working as a look out. There would have to be assurances that they would be protected and that seems to have been the case when Officer Joe Smith met one if them who claimed to be with the Secret Service. Such imposters were also reported to be ebhind the TSBD, which would be handy in the event that those who risked firing from a 6th floor of a building would be able to esacpe before the police would have blocked off their exits. As one may remember - a shooter was seen on the 6th floor and was said to have remained at the window for a short period and he and his cohorts were still able to leave the building unmolested and without fear of being caught. Where on the North knoll were these alleged spotters supposed to be? I have access to the entire knoll by cross referencing the available assassination films and photos - I will be happy to find them or point out that there is no one there - whichever the case may be. As you should know - such Ops also use disinformation after the fact. Such disinformation could come in the way of someone like yourself claiming to be somewhere he was not. It could come in the way by giving an opinion about there not being a shooter on the knoll, but not explaining why the circumstantial evidence doesn't make a case for it. It could come in the way of making points about such shooters not risking getting caught while not telling how people with fake SS badges were met in the same area or explaining what their purpose was. Then there is the wind and burnt gunpodwer issues that were not touched upon. So I hope you don't mind me asking some common sense questions here that need to be asked. Now if you could tell me exactly where you and your spotter friend were standing - it would be a good start in getting comfirmation for what you have said or exposing a tall tale. I'll offer the best images I can either way. As someone once said, "Let justice be done though the Heavens fall." Bill <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank You. I respect your thoughts and theroies. If you would read previous post and pay attention to what others have said on the subject matter and the information which has been presented by them, you would know where I was standing. Is it possible to broaden your concepts and help this "dis-information" person? Thanks any help would be appreciated. Tosh Plumlee.

x

This is the first I've ever heard of a newsman and news truck in the South Knoll parking lot. As for earwitnesses, Tosh has a funny story about setting off a firecracker on the South Knoll during a subsequent visit and having everyone in the Plaza turn toward the North Knoll. He says the police were there rather quickly. I think Al Carrier's stuff is very good about the advantageous LOS from the front on the South Knoll, as well as how it could explain the lack of a left side head blowout. As I have said previously, Al gave me permission to post his stuff here, but I just don't feel comfortable doing that. When I'm there in a few weeks, I will be taking many pictures and hope that my study of the classic gunman LOS is not thwarted by an overgrown pyracantha [sp?] tree. I want to again emphasize that I have no certainty about this issue, and that maybe walking the walk rather than just talking the talk will convince me on a personal level that I have resisted. I just don't know. I'm going on the same weekend as the conferences but not attending any except possibly the COPA Friday night, so I hope you can appreciate what an effort that is to make in order to have the sun and conditions be optimal for the understanding of light and shadow. Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have read most of the material that has been presented on this thread about the lights and shadows, a person there.., a person not there..., why he was there and why he was not there. All seem to present good points in their arguments. But all is just wild speculations as far as I am concern. Some have become so entrenched in their work that this subject matter has become their main focal point and they have become blinded to others valid points or none valid points and miss the whole picture. JFK was EXECUTED, in public. There is no simple answer. And lights and shadows, people there, and people not there brings us no closer to the truth, or identification, of who shot him, or how many additional shooters there were, if any. Now I will throw my spuculations into the fray. (1) I do not believe that there was a shooter anywhere near the north knoll; behind a fence; on a car hood; in the parking lot; behind a wall. I do not care what the "Experts" say. They have not proven their case to me beyond a resonable doubt. That goes for the South Knoll as well as the North Knoll locations. Today we have better equipment to photo work these pictures. That technique should be applied by professional personal.., example Law enforcement or private corp. that deal with such matters. What I think. What you think. And what the public has been led to think is of no value today. (2) I do not believe that a professional snipper team would place a shooter that close to the public with a rifle or a pistol. (within twenty five feet of people watching the motorcade and between the personal on the overpass and the kill zone.) If that WAS the case it would have been done by amatures and they would have been caught before they got away from their position. (3) I was there. I helped Sergio spot for that type of stuff. And there were others, from our team, who were at the North Knoll. I have been told by the expert researchers, over the years, that they (my team) were part of the assassination team and that I was also. B.S. That too, is speculation or their part and not a proven fact. I have never said that I know all the facts behind the assassination. But, I damn well know a few of them. If we had tried to interfer with the assins and "Take them out" , as some have said (if we had found them) Then a lot of innocent people would have been killed or hurt that day and the OPS and the background information of how it was obtained would have been compromised. It would have been a blood bath in the plaza. Our job was to interupt their timing and remain "in the background" None of this was to ever be known by the public. It was a military Covert Ops. Anyone ever associated with that type of warfare knows what that means. I hope this helps.. Its not meant to be critical. Thanks for all the information. Tosh

Again Thanks for sharing this information, or pointing me to it. I am not a researcher, or writing a book. I just happened to have lived the events as a "operative" and would like to fill in a few blanks locked in my memory.... so that I might help others establish the facts.. Thanks again, Tosh

Thanks John: I was not aware of all the information out there. I was not researching. I was prodding my memory about Black because I had confussed him with the Dallas Cubans and El Torres. I was just asking for help on the ID. I know or knew this person and I'm fairly sure he is one of the people I met at Mountain Lake at Hensely Field and Chance Vaught Aircraft. Over the years, for whatever reasons I have thought of him as Torres. I think this person (Black) had something to do with the death of John Rosellie, or knows who did the job and why. Anyway, thanks again for the help. I will also hold some of my information close to my chest, until I know what and who, I am dealing with. Tosh

Thanks Larry. Why did'nt someone tell me about this information when I ask? It would have saved me a lot of leg work. Thanks again. Tosh

Tosh, Speaking of operation names as opposed to real names, which you know we all are craving, were you ever aware that Frank Bender was actually Gerry Droller? Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes Tim. I found that out about 1975 from a Senator Church investigator who interviewed me in Phoenix Arizona..., can not remember the investigators name. Bender, at one time was kind of like a case officer to me. Reference: 1958 & 1965 FBI 105 & 62 files; Nat. Security Matters concerning the United States Government and one, "William R. Plumlee" . Miami, Pheonix and Denver OO. (Office of Orgin) Have a good one. Thanks, Tosh

Thanks Christy. Wm. Morgan, as you know was a good friend. There was a time when the CIA wanted young men who had no home life or close to any type of normal background. They were the real "cut-outs". If one really wants to obtain a knowledge into the workings of the covert CIA and MI worlds of the time, then they should read the link you posted. This story, like most all our stories, will always be "Pro and Con", no records... no proven story... time is the key to truth.. Within the Morgan story, and his life, and others, are found the clues to Kennedy's death and the reasons. The foundation and the assassination were formed long before the shots were fired in Dallas. Thanks again, least we forget.. Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A POEM About American, William Morgan of Toledo,Ohio, a Major in the Cuban Revolution holding equal military rank with Castro. I was under the Castro spell Until the day Bill Morgan fell Our friend Fidel had him shot down And burried under red Cuban ground. It was at La Cabana where he died The victim of true patriot pride, Trijillo the murderer tried to deal With Morgan, Castro's power to steal. Dominicans landed and died in Cuba's snare Not one Trijillo soldier did Castro spare Major Morgan, soldier and hero true Saved the Revolution, not else he would do. On Bill Morgan that history did hinge Then an angry U.S. State Dept went on a binge Morgan's citizenship they would revoke Knowing he'd soon die by this infamous hoax. The allpowerful will never show mercy To any who injure their conspiracies Many like Morgan will pay this price But will live on immortal the greater life! {c} Harry Dean Morgan as an officer of the Cuban Revolutionary Army, could not, would not agree with CIA {Central Intelligence Agency} to aid the Dominican dictator Trijillo, in the attempt to overthrow Castro's Government. Morgan informed Castro of the plan. The U.S. State Department then withdrew Morgan's citizenship while leaking false information to Castro that Morgan was working with CIA. Castro beleived the false information, then had Morgan arrested and executed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Harry. I had forgot about the poem. I had seen it once before. Do you know anything about Fred Black and Ed P Morgan? I think Ed Morgan used to be an FBI agent and was in Dallas in the forties, but not sure. Some years later he was used as a "cut-out" for the CIA, sort of a money man. Also anything on a Dallas Cuban by the name of (?) Luciano who knew Odio's father in Cuba and Rosellie's trips to Cuba in 1958? Any help would be appreciated. Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tosh My areas of involvement were {mostly} Chicago/Cuba, first pro Castro, then anti-Castro, reporting to U.S. Intelligence. None of the names listed above are known to me. H.Dean I did not contact Morgan while in Cuba {July 1960} but was sweated by Cuba's G2 {since named DGI as you know} In looking back I still break a ' fearful sweat ' thinking about those lousy skunks at DGI. But my credentials cheated them, ie; {Francisco ' Frank ' Vega} just as Intelligence bet they would. Morgan was executed only a few months later. My fate would have been sealed and never got out of there if I had called on Morgan. Those bastards at G2 new every move I made, were sure I was CIA and said so. Later Vega sneaked into the U.S. and I gave him to my Intelligence Contacts! It remains always to me as terrific, to have cheated fate, and having put the screws to my former friends and associates of 26th Of July Movement, and their Network in the United States { The Fair Play for Cuba Committee } along with 'others' at Cuban G2=DGI headquarters who wanted to, and urged Vega have me shot just on suspicion. Did not intend here to get off track,and sorry could not be helpful. H. Dean <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Harry. I did receive information on Fred Black and Ed Morgan from a confidentual source and a previous investigator on the Rosellie death. I posted that information, today. Thanks for your help.. Tosh

I want to thank Bob Harrison, Dade County investigator, for directing me to the following document: I ask Forum members if anyone knew anything about Fred Black and Ed Morgan. I received this information from an investigator who had worked the death of Rosellie. I appreciate his confidence. (I have BOLD'ed the section that pertains to Black and Morgan) 8 October 1976 MEMORANDUM FOR: Director of Security FROM : Curtis R. Rivers SUBJECT : Dade County Request for Agency Assistance Regarding the Death of Johnny Roselli 1. The following is provided for your information and pertains to an assessment of the information contained in Office of Security files relevant to the request from the Dade County Sheriff's Office pursuant to their investigation of the death of Johnny Roselli. 2. The Dade County Sheriff's representatives requested all Agency information pertaining to several Cuban nationals. A review of Office of Security indices in this regard disclosed the following: a. Ramon Don Eestevez [Donestevez] Dominquez – Office of Security records were negative. b. Rolando Masferrer Rojas – Covert.(36 859) and overt (352 772) security files were located regarding Rolando Masferrer, a Cuban citizen born 12 January 1918 in Holguin, Cuba. Although limited national agency checks were conducted on Subject in January 1950, there is no indication that Masferrer was ever utilized by the Agency. He is a former Cuban senator and Cuban Communist Party member (expelled in 1945), a former commander for Batista's private army, and firmly anti-Castro. The two files contain numerous FBI reports regarding his activities in connection with an attempt to invade Cuba in 1960 and a subsequent effort to invade Haiti in 1967. Masferrer and 75 of his follower were arrested in January 1967 in Marathon, Florida, while preparing for the invasion of Haiti. Masferrer claimed that his Haiti invasion plot was approved by the U. S. Government (varying between the CIA and the FBI as the approving agency). While the CIA approval claim was untrue, Agency concern, at the time, centered around the possibility of unfavorable publicity and the compromise of sources and methods if the Agency was forced to disprove Masferrer's charges in court. A handwritten note in Masferrer's file revealed that he died in 1975 when his car was blown apart by a bomb in Florida. No further details regarding his death were contained in his subject files. Since Masferrer has never been affiliated with the Agency, despite his claims, it is believed that Dade County officials should be referred to the FBI for information regarding Masferrer. C. Luciano Nieves – Office of Security files contain [ ] information regarding Luciano Nieves Mestre, date and place of birth 6 October 1933, Santa Clara, Cuba. Nieves was [ ] on 4 February 1966 in Florida. It was developed that he was a Cuban national who had been arrested, tried, and sentenced to 20 years in Cuban for allegedly being involved in an anti-Castro plot. He was released in March 1965 after serving approximately 16 months of his sentences and went to Spain briefly where he was of interest to the [ ] In August 1965 he entered the United States and in November 1965 was contacted by Directorate of Operations (DDO) representatives. From November 1965 until approximately January 1966 he was of operations interest in the DDO. It is noted that the DDO maintains a 201 file (201-788521) regarding Subject and it is believed that the Office of Security would have to defer any decision regarding the release of information concerning Nieves to the DDO. d. Jose de La Torriente – Security records contain only sparse information provided by the Domestic Contact service in 1970 showing that one Jose de La Torriente, not further identified, claimed association with the Agency was not contained in Office of Security files. It is believed that a decision to release information regarding Torriente would have to be deferred to the DDO. e. Jose Quintana – Office of Security records contain no information identifiable with Jose Quintana. f. Jaoquin Antonio Cortizo – Office of Security records are negative. g. Manola Artimes – Security records contain overt (611 523) and covert (210 838) files regarding Manuel Francisco Artime-Buesa. Artime-Buesa is a former Agency operational asset utilized by the DDO during the approximate period 1959-1963. Any decision regarding the release of information regarding Artime-Buesa or his present whereabouts should be deferred to the DDO. h. AMLASH – Rolando Cubela (Secades), Agency cryptonym – AMLASH, is the subject of the Office of Security covert file 101 080. Cubela is a rather celebrated Cuban national and operational contact of the DDO mentioned throughout both of the Senate Select Committee assassination reports. Although Cubela is identified in the assassination reports as AMLASH and his identity has never been revealed by the Agency, his true identity has been surfaced in several recent news articles. All information on Cubela in the possession of the Office of Security would fall within the purview of the DDO, and it is believed that any decision to release information pertaining to Cubela should be deferred to the Latin America Division of the DDO. It should be noted that during their investigation, Senate Select Committee staffers reviewed Cubela's raw files from both the DDO and the Office of Security. I. Dade County Sheriff's Office representatives requested the "names of the three Cubans mentioned in the Roselli testimony." It is believed that the response to this question should be deferred to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence since the Office of Security does not have access to the Roselli testimony. 3. Additionally, the Dade County Sheriff's Office representatives ask for all Agency information pertaining to several individuals of unknown citizenships, but believed to be U. S. citizens. A review of the Office of Security indices in this regard disclosed the following: a. Fred Black – Office of Security records revealed only newspaper clippings contained in the Robert G. Baker subject file (260 273) showing that Fred B. Black, Jr., a consultant with North American Aviation, was a close friend and business associate of "Bobby" G. Baker. Black was mentioned repeatedly in the news media coverage of Senate investigations of Baker in the early 1960's. While Black's citizenship is undetermined, it is probable that he is a U. S. citizen. b. Edward Morgan–A covert security file (46 394) was located regarding Edward Pierpont Morgan, date and place of birth 28 May 1913, St. Louis, Missouri. Morgan, a U. S. citizen and former FBI agent from 1941-1945, was granted a [ XXX ] Clearance on 2 February 1951 for use as a "cut out" in connection [ XXXX ] The [ XXXX ] Clearance was amended and approved in March 1951 to include Morgan's use in providing covert legal support for operations in the form of a "cut out", legal advice, transmission of funds, and other assistance of a legal nature in connection with DDO projects. Since Subject may have been utilized by the DDO, it is felt that any decision to release information regarding Morgan should be deferred to the DDO. It is noted that while only the aforementioned subject file exists regarding Morgan, in his capacity as Robert A. Maheu's personal attorney, Morgan is mentioned sporadically in the Maheu, Harvey, and Roselli files. In 1967 Maheu was interviewed and advised that he had briefed Morgan regarding the details of his involvement in the Agency-sponsored Castro assassination plots. Morgan's current association with Maheu, professional and/or personal, is unknown. Morgan is currently practicing law in the District of Columbia law firm of Welch and Morgan. c. Joseph Shimon – No Office of Security subject file exists regarding Joseph Shiman. However, he is mentioned in the Johnny Roselli file as a personal friend of Roselli. It is further noted in the Roselli file that Shimon knew Maheu, but the nature and extent of their official/social relationship is unknown. Shimon is described as a former District of Columbia Metropolitan Police Department (MPD) inspector who was discharged from the D.C. MPD as a result of a conviction involving wiretapping activities. 4. To date, no decision has been made as to the type and form of response to be made to the Dade County Sheriff's Office request. Additionally, a formal request to the Office of Security has not been received. Office of Security files have been searched and pertinent information reviewed. Pending a decision as to what form the response, if any, will take, it is recommended that the Office of Security files containing information pertinent to the request by retained in a readily available status and no further action be taken at this time. Curtis R. Rivers

Yes. To my knowledge it is Perez. ( sometime called Rodriquez) I did not know when he was killed. Thanks. The other one (Mendez) I had not known about until a few years after 1966 and was told he was a friend of Odio's father who was in a Havana prison about 1963, or so, I think. That information came to me through the FBI and referenced that he (mendez) was previous BoP vet and earlier Gun-runner for the Cuban cause. I did not know when he died or was killed.. Strange these two died the same year.... Thanks James for the information. Tosh