Shanet Clark

Diem is important for a number of reasons. His demise was part of the backdrop of 11/63, I've said that. It set up, Big Minh and Marshal Ky and a long string of struggling regimes, but Diem's was just as bad, and weak. The death of Diem, according to Tim Gratz was signed off on for the US by McGeorge Ball. Now you have conflated McGeorge Bundy with George Ball, but Diem was overthrown by militants in a junta with the cables and the Americans in it up to their eyeballs. Still the connection to Dallas is this National Security Advisor who can order heads of state sanctioned and, on the night of November 21/22, alter Kennedy's de-escalation in Vietnam to an escalation....incapacity, military industrial complex, Kennedy's right wing militant enemies, some in high places, some witting before, many more witting in the cover-up....Diem was dead. The stakes were raised.

In the context of Tim Carrolls onrunning debate on Cuba and the WBOPThing, Diem is part of Charles Colson's Dirty Tricks laboratory for Nixon. Howard Hunt and Charles COlson actively forged State Department 1963 memoranda and telegrams to place Diem's murder directly on Kennedy. So Diem is part of the thread.

Ian

Thought provoking isn't it? I noticed the mad scientist worked specifically for Oswald's branch, the Marines. Splitting personalities into virulently anti-communist and communist faces...sending hypnotized counterspies across enemy lines, it all sounds familiar.

A man walks into a publick house with a slab of black asphalt, says, "Give me one, and another for the Road!"

Like many men I tend to spend quite a bit of time at parties talking about sport, and most especially golf.

My own 2 sporting heroes are Jack Nicklaus and Tony Jacklin. Nicklaus because he was quite simply the best there has ever been, and also because of his tremendous sportsmanship (see 1969 Ryder Cup), and Jacklin because by winning 2 majors at a time when no European golfer ever did this he laid the foundations of what has now become in Europe the dominant world force in golf.

My sporting anti-hero is a golfer called David Robertson who though fantastically talented and with a great amateur career chose to cheat outrageously when trying to qualify as a professional in the early 80's. He was caught moving the ball yards nearer the hole before putting  and banned for life

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Andy,

I have seen Jack Nicklaus hit the ball on golf courses that he has designed, and wow, that guy had the control.

Three years ago I was catering an event in north Atlanta, the PGA Sugarloaf Tournament. I had been there four or five days serving lunch buffets to the golf crowd, and the last day was rained out.

They cut me loose and I went out to the stands to watch the tied leaders shoot a special sudden death playoff on the final morning. Everyone else was utterly rained out, but since the purse had to go to one or the other, the two leaders had to play a single hole of par-three golf to decide the champion's purse. NBC had a few guys out in the rain and we watched Phil Mickelson and Gary Nicklaus (jack's son) shoot the single hole for about $600,000, because whoever lost the hole would get less than half the champion's purse. So Mickelson hits it up onto the green on the par three, Gary Nicklaus hits the lip and falls back into the sand trap.

Pretty much a million dollar hole, out in the rain with the pros, NBC and the caterer.

I have a friend who would say the battle of Stalingrad, and I would have to say the French Revolution. 1789 through Napoleon.

I think he was a martyr to the cause of peace and straight shooting, and his murder takes  you down into the world of hatred, and falseness, and lying violent people using power for powers own sake, like evil lords in the middle-earth.  John Kennedy was a Galahad compared to the worm-tongues who survived and replaced him ...

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Shanet:

You haven't been listening enough to Tim Gratz interpretation of history. As for "evil lords in the middle-earth," would that be like the Lemurians living in Mt. Shasta, where I was married on 7/7/77? Just joshing.

Tim Carroll (with last name since I wouldn't want anyone to ever mistake my posts for Tim Gratz's).

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Well, you know the Lemurians of mount shasta are like the orcs of Sauron and Saruman (Christopher Lee). The bad guys.

Of course.

I am listening to the audiotape series that has the 1960 Debate, Kennedy's inauguration speech, Carl Sandburg on Lincoln and Adlai Stevenson's Eulogy of John F. Kennedy. Stirring stuff, really makes you feel proud to fight for his legacy, to oppose and expose what we can about his killers, to be his friends and pals around the round table, even though he is gone. I think he was a martyr to the cause of peace and straight shooting, and his murder takes you down into the world of hatred, and falseness, and lying violent people using power for powers own sake, like evil lords in the middle-earth. John Kennedy was a Galahad compared to the worm-tongues who survived and replaced him ...

This thread paints a context, a moment in time; circa one month before Dallas, the real-life cinema verite image that historians now know about these characters. It was a day at the office, for the Attorney General and the FBI Director to twist the arms of the Senate leadership over the Ellen Rometsh. Meanwhile Henry Cabot Lodge is backing the coup d'etat on the ground in Saigon. Thus the power of the Chief of Mission. The news of Diem's capture and murder surely anchors the history of November 1963. The organized crime figures that were forming the habitus of the post-war cultures in the ascendency. Brinksmanship.

I've read the witnesses testimony to the shooting of Dallas police officer J.D. Tippitt on 11/22/63...they are not describing Oswald out by himself...after reading all the threads and quite a few other sources, I think the conspirators planned all along for a Dallas policeman to die that day along with Jack Kennedy, either at the Dealey Plaza site, at the Texas Theater site or here on the side street.

With no return fire on the Plaza and Oswald surviving the Texas Theater scuffle...the plan as it came off the shelf would pin a dual murder on the patsy, Oswald (that is just my opinion)

I would say Tony Ulasciewitz, just to put a general guess forward.

I am glad we have a thread on Marcello. He was in the national crime family in the late 1950's and early 1960's. Biggest claim to fame: being flown from the states to guatamala courtesy Bob Kennedy and the Justice Department. Marcello was about at the rank of SANTO TRAFFICANTE and SAM GIANCANA in the Kennedy era Mafia family.

J. Edgar Hoover, fanatical about Communists and Civil Rights leaders left the Mafia families a wide leeway, and there is some evidence Hoover was compromised by extortionate photographic evidence available to MEYER LANSKY, CHARLES LUCIANO and the amentioned Giancana (Mooney) and Santo Trafficante. Marcello was a major candidate in most theories on Kennedy's death a few years ago, but I haven't seen much on him here on the FORUM....

greatest song MACARTHUR PARK by JIMMY WEBB

songwriter of all time BOB DYLAN

interpreter of own material JIM MORRISON

blues JIMMY REED

20th Century JOHNNY MERCER

Piano songs NAT KING COLE

Arthur, Dux Bellorum, Cornwall and Wales,

Fifth Century British General.

Boadicca, Welsh Queen,

First Century British General.

Caradoc, Silurian Prince held at Rome,

with Bran and Linus, his Kin, who survived

Joseph of Arimathea and Mary Magdalene at Ilchester and Glastonbury.

These who faced the greatest odds with the greatest strength.

Millican worked for the plumbing company, but saw a Honest Joe Pawn Shop truck near the TBSD before the shooting. The truck stalled on the south side is suspicious, as well. Millican was very well placed to identify the directions of the shots, in the general vicinity of the parade witness participants like Umbrella Man.

He specifies the sound of a .45 or automatic rifle fire. Millican was familiar with the area as a pipelayer and walked into the middle of the parade route detour zone, the death zone he so articulately describes as the "Arcade."

Please read the PDF file on Millican's statement, I would paste it if I could...

Great Post Tim Carroll

I am sure the great Warren Hinckle would be proud to be posted here on the Forum.

Thanks for that exchange. He just may make the cool million.

Chris

If I remember the Gary Webb story, he was fed a lot of disinformation, he was pretty aggressive and he had to back away from some things he printed. This happens when people won't come forward, when people in authority change their story and your news industry comes under pressure to soft pedal "un-American" and uncomfortable facts. But some was withdrawn and this got more play than the initial story, almost. What we don't know, but would have confirmed him, is the extent of CIA drug-running, the scope and depth of their penetration of the US market. Their willingness to middleman and push out non cooperative players in the heydey of the big south american cocaine 1980's was well known.

Small historical example: Ganja running Jamaicans, a family, gets a lot of pressure to buy weapons with cash profits, switch to harder drugs, and destabilize Michael Manley, the Liberal PM. Mr. Seaga benefitted from riots in the city of Kingston, and Manley was overthrown, legally. Where is the line between drugs, guns, cash, the CIA and US foreign policy in that early (1979) example?

With so much domestic and international crime CLASSIFIED TOP SECRET it is no surprise that a gentleman like Gary Webb would have a few overstatements and unconfirmed allegations in his publications..........

I like David Corn's work Blond Ghost, I like reading his stuff on web and seeing him on CNN. He's got some great work behind him.  What I can't stand is he plays it "safe".  Spits and runs.

Someone tell me what he means in referring to Webb's work:

"He was on to something but botched part of how he handled it" and "Webb's work - as flawed as it was" and  "I maintained he had overstated the case and had not proven his more cinematic allegations."  What are the details of Corn's gripe with Webb's research?

Another thing about Corn and fellows like him:  after 911 he posted a blog about how stupid he thought the conspiracy theories were that he was getting, post WTC.  Now time has shown that many NYers and the families of victims believe there is more being concealed than revealed about this horrible day. 

I just hate to hear the words "Why should I apologize?" to Corn I say:  "Why not?"

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That's a beauty. It allows for the full triangulation, if you read the third volley "farther back" on the grassy knoll as echoing from original shots from the south. This is a wonderfully unprompted, unscripted eye and ear witness with no particular agenda......

Don Roberdeau

A very important post.

Walks me thru a guided text of the bitmap you constructed, so, thanks.

My reference to a possible 150 degree range for JFK at impact.

You say he was turned 27 degrees away from forward, add that to the ninety degrees to his right, equals 117 degrees, he was 117 degrees away from facing Zapruder and the Pergola ( at 150 degrees I was guessing at a range, which was only 33 degrees larger than your fact, the 117 degrees counterclockwise from Zapruder.

The complicated ballistics done point to twin and near simultaneous headshots.

The convenient 6.5 fragment Xray is bogus. In the scalp, a round end of a 6.5?

Your work certainly points to an abundance of shots from the rear, and the witnesses mainly indicate a grassy knoll source, and the sewer drain is part of the Triple overpass, which is a putative triangle, for a triangulated volly, with radio spotters and men close in. There was no return fire.

Good description of Ruby's escorts.

Jim, wasn't there an unusually long blast of a car horn caught on the television newsreels? Some think this blast signalled Ruby that Oswald was coming.

Is this true?

Suicide, shmuicide! The technology keeps getting better. "Don't Open Door: Call 911" that is not a suicide note --- that is a bureaucratic reminder...this was one of the most scathing and incisive investigative reporters: GARY WEBB was fulfilling the OVERSIGHT function for a runaway and arrogant National Security structure under Reagan, Bush, Poindexter and North.

With the Cassolaro event to reflect on (I do not know Hatfield) the circumstances are grim, chilling and straight out of J.Edgar HOOVER and the Kennedy Johnson era. The excellent Jane MAYER and Doyle MCMANUS book Landslide: Unmaking of the President 1984-1988 tells the larger story of the drifting incompetence that allowed Casey, Singlaub and the arms merchants to act the way they did, the weapons were paid for by the drugs, which were then fought over and sold on your corner, especially if you lived in Oakland, Washington or Atlanta..........

Today's headline in the NYT was

PENTAGON WEIGHS USE OF DECEPTION IN BROAD ARENA: VALUE OF DISINFORMATION: The nation's credibility is at risk, Military Critics Contend.

I think the two are related, Gary Webb and this Military Industrial Imperative.

Tosh, you know anything about Gary Webb?

His story matches up with yours, doesnt' it?

Or how about Sally Denton's work? She confirms Gary Webb, doesn't she?

RE: Sally Denton's book, The Bluegrass Conspiracy; and "Mena"

Does this CIA sponsonship of cocaine in the 1980s explain the Kentucky group?

Do you have anything to say about ANDREW THORNTON?

That makes sense, except that Moorman was down in the rut, and the gunman back behind a low wall opposite NIX...and I never said this figure ever shot at anybody, I said he posed in position by a car top...and I put very little confidence in that Moorman photograph and what that shabby Polaroid does or does not show because of its many degrees of decay... the film, Nix, and what it shows on the North Knoll remains an enigma that is probably best not to explain away but to explain.

I see that David Healey and Jack White agree with Costella and Fetzer:

the zapruder film as a special effects propaganda creation.

It's possible, but not probable, and who knows?

And no Jack, I am not unable to understand the pincushion effect.

But the degrees of difference in the uprights was not that compelling.

Dr. Wimp's analysis on CSPAN of why everyone bobbed forward in 313 area was, braking. JFK bobbed forward, then Kellerman and then the women all rocked forward.

Zapruder doesn't show me anything like the occipital right large lower head wound, so I am uninclined to believe the temple wound is unretouched.

It might just be a fake..........

Here's the full press release found on the hotlink above:

The “Manchurian Candidate” theory of the JFK assassination not only explains the bipolar nature of Oswald's activities (pro- and anti-Communist) leading up to and including the assassination, but also can be used to harmonize the two main schools of thought in the ongoing investigation: “Oswald as lone-assassin” and “Oswald as CIA patsy.” Since an “involuntary assassin” is the ultimate patsy, this artificial division in the ongoing investigation can be eliminated and the best evidence from both camps synthesized to finally solve the case.

(PRWEB) December 13, 2004 -- Was accused JFK assassin Lee Harvey Oswald a lone nut, a Soviet agent, or a CIA version of the "Manchurian Candidate"?

That last possibility arises from public records of U.S. intelligence agencies and contractors, studied and synthesized into a sensational new theory: Oswald was influenced by mind control, a technique developed and used by the United States.

In the shadow of the 40th anniversary of the assassination, Jerry Leonard, author of “The Perfect Assassin,” develops that intriguing new theory. He matches what is known of Oswald and of U.S. mind control experiments, and unifies the "establishment" and the "conspiracy" theories by portraying Oswald as both perpetrator and patsy.

Sound intriguing? Consider this:

*A declassified CIA memo from the 1950s describes a scenario in which a government-programmed assassin/defector kills an American official and is then "disposed of" after being taken into custody.

*A military hypnotist in the 1950s describes in detail how to create an unwitting "super spy" by splitting an individual's personality into militant anti-Communist and pro-Communist factions.

This backdrop of mind control experimentation allows us to see Oswald's role in the Kennedy assassination in a revealing light. His baffling pro- and anti-Communist behavior is no longer contradictory, but uncannily fits the profile of a programmed operative whose post-assassination elimination while in police custody was foreshadowed in a CIA memo.

In addition to serving as a warning to us today, the "Manchurian candidate" theory of the JFK assassination eliminates long-standing difficulties for researchers pursuing the historic case. It also provides common ground for those who claim that Oswald pulled the trigger, and those who claim he was used as a "fall-guy" for the CIA to take the blame for its crime.

Written for the assassination expert and novice alike, The Perfect Assassin offers a provocative theory that will stimulate discussion and, it is the author's hope, create a framework to settle the issue once and for all.

The Perfect Assassin

ISBN 1-4033-6336-6

$15.50

{This ties in with a lot of what I've been seeing and posting on}

The issue has been whether he was nothing more than light spots and shadows on the wall or a real person.

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Two things: I greatly prefer the evidence not to be drawn over and ruined.

Second, there is a guy in marksman position at the break in the wall.

Robardeau says NIX was EIGHT FEET above MOORMAN in altitude, eye level with the classic gunmnan.

I cannot identify him, and I don't even claim he fired a gun, but I see a person there, crouched in the classic marksman position, with an automobile close at hand.

How is this a distraction?

This is the classic gunman film image in NIX.

Unexplained, to my level of required evidentiary proof. A possible gunman.