Shanet Clark

So perhaps Oswald slayed the murderer of Kennedy, Officer Tippit.

Great thread.

That is a pretty good theory John.

I believe its called Portrait of an Assassin

and has a lurid red cover featuring Oswald.

The sworn statement that Ford

still stood by the 1964 WC findings in 1998,

its very corny and kitschy JFK stuff,

and since its signed by Gerald Ford

its a Presidential collectible.

(unelected*)

Fascinating. The Tom Buchanan book, almost lost to history, now emerges as the Kennedys' own backchannel to the truth from 1964. The synopsis you present has good internal logic, and explains the situatuation vis a vis Oswald and Tippit as well as any, and later research did point to more contacts between Oswald and Ruby.

Someone has a signed copy of Gerald Ford's book about

Oswald and the Warren Commission on EBAY.

It has a corny attestation to the findings and

an official "judicial" signature from 1998.

It's at $51 right now, not my era,

I buy colonial and victorian stuff.

Shanet

Yes, I think Ron is right, as usual.

I recently reread Mark Lane's Plausible Denial.

The Civil trial Hunt initiated backfired, and his

alibi about being at the CIA fell apart.

His own children wouldn't say that he was

around Washington that fateful weekend,

and there was a lot of quibbling over

whether Howard Hunt was reminding

or suggesting to his children his presence at home.

Mark Lane's questioning of Stansfeld Turner

is like an absurdist play from Eugene Ionesco

or Alice in Wonderland. Surreal, the Turner material....

Hunt was apparently the western hemisphere CIA domestic

operations honcho in the fall of 1963.

Jack

I think Al is probably right, we should leave the NASA 1969 material

to the thread itself and not mix directly with the JFK debate.

Clarification: If Apollo Eleven had a theme or "narrative"

as related by the finished surface landing stills,

then the theme, look and "narrative" of Apollo Twelve

was much different, the Apollo Twelve material looks more

retouched, more Kubrick-like, with more coronas and prismatic

overlays.

The Apollo Moon was a Great Bowl where Stars never shined.

Two real obvious things:

Look around the US Flag, no footprints where an astronaut must have straddled and forced the Flagpole in. If you look around the base of the flag their are

few footprints, no scuffs, no heavy twin boot marks of the astronaut who placed the Flag...also, with no H20 content, how would the Flag be planted in the soil?

Observation Two: small brass ring a few inches above the moon's surface

A brass screw bases is visible in the improbable Flag.

Are these pictures of nearly weightless individuals?

Are these all photos taken from the Chest through Space mittens?

The Cold War Military Intelligence Imperative exerted a strong force whenever

photographic evidence, space photos, rocketry potentials were made public.

Jack White is correct to search for anomalies in this Cold War

Aeronautic government propaganda films....

Lee Forman-

On the major themes I agree with you

A large paramilitary party, fully articulated.

Interesting how you found the lenses and rifle image...

I think you should consider the triangulation approach.

When some of us talk about a south knoll shot, it is not the

small caliber preliminary throat shot, it is the head shot.

Don Roberdeau, Al Currier and Wm. Tosh Plumlee are closely

interrogating a theory of South Knoll triangulated head shot from the

parking lot of the triple railroad overpass on the south,

to JFK and agent Greer's left.

Kennedy was looking to his left, and the overpass was looming to his front,

and some of us look at a final killing head shot from the south knoll.

We don't know what the entry wound looked like, but the exit was the

oft-described right rear occipital parietal skull wound.

Because of the interest in

Oswald

Zapruder

Dal Textile

County Records

Umbrella Man

Alleged (confesssed) north (grassy) knoll shooter Jimmy Files

the Classic Gunman

because of the interest in all these, the South Knoll

Where a good witness (Wm Plumlee) places a shot,

has been overlooked. The "flat" as we say in American football, the larger open side of the field. The nonsense at the Railroad tracks that day and the fact that RR tracks are notorious getaway routes supports this theory. Some believe that shots fired from the south knoll echo to a false origin, it may be so.

I am not sure how much photo forgery has been done, but I am very skeptical

of the autopsy photos, Xrays and even the surviving films, Zapruder, Nix, Muchmore.

I think they show a front to back headshot, except Zapruder which has blood mist and "The Blob" the right temple wound, added.

I agree with Dr. Minek that the rear skull in the Xray is too bright and pristine, and ditto JFK's Left front Forehead in the autopsy photo.

Certainly the "Brains" photos and the "Back wounds" (rear head intact) photos are absolutely irreconcilable and proof of forgery.

The triangulation theory is purely deductive paramilitary plans assumption,

but is confirmed by the present interest in snipers at the Dal-Tex, North Fence and South Tracks positions.

One final note to Lee and other photo analysts:

Don't be too quick to see a paste-over. I had a large photo of Cincinatti Reds Third Baseman Bobby Tolan on my wall in the 1970s. The man had no forearm, in the picture, but he had a right forearm, in real life...

thanks to all

PS Nix Classic Gunman is also seen in Beltzer (sp) next to the black dog man

Classic Gunman and black dog man were the team behind the retaining wall,

near the landau roof car. I disagree with Lee (and many others) on the placement of the Classic Gunman seen in Nix, the car and the ability of the Moorman Polaroid to show this. Nix shows a gunman WHERE THE BLOOD WAS FOUND

Shanet

(rhymes with planet)

Hello Shanet.

Al Currier agrees with me that this was the work of

a triangulated ambush team with radiomen, snipers, and spotters.

I agree as well. 25+ operatives and screw trying to prove one additional shooter on the knoll, or any nonsense about the dictabelt. In 2005 it's 25+ or nothing. That's my attitude.

I don't know so much about 'triangulated.' Who came up with that idea anyway? I can't post images anymore for some reason, but I liken it to the spokes on a wheel, with DCM at center. Add Cameramen and Signalmen to your mix, plus security.

I have an interesting aerial view map which I have composed, attempting to identify [most] of the radios, as they are evidenced in various films and photos. It isn't up to date, because I am always finding more. I have never assembled all the cameras I have found in one place. Also, sad to say, I have no way of knowing if some of what I believe to be cameras are not in fact specific hi-tech scopes used by spotters, or rifle scopes in some cases.

I have a similar map in which I have plugged in the shooters, using a lot of photographic analyses and examining trajectories, but it's imperfect, as I am unable to zero in on several of the exact locations.

Lenses, IMO, can be identified due to the phenomenon that occurs when they are captured by the lens of another camera. They have a shimmering type of brilliance about them, as they somehow refract the light. Not a subject matter expert on photography, or why this occurs, just an observation.

The traffic was heavy in and out of the tower and lot,

and the car seen in NIX, these things are still intriguing to me.

The car is of no consequence, IMO. It is a bogus addition. Have you been to DP? This object would have to be between the fence and the retaining wall. Impossible. It also fails to appear in Moorman. Even if it was a car behind the fence, it would have had to have been higher than ~7' tall IMO. The fence is 5' high, and Nix is located at a much lower elevation.

Just another red herring, like the phony Oswald photo at the embassy submitted by David Atlee Phillips. Garrison thought it was suspect, and that makes perfect sense, given Phillips role and his past expertise in propaganda and disinformation.

Another is the 3rd man on the stairs. Another is Rosemary Willis' hood, which is seen in it's normal position on her coat in Dorman, not tightly drawn around her head, as seen in Zapruder.

If you peel back the overexposure and tinting in Nix, you can see the party up there. There are anywhere from 7 - 12 people or more, on the stairs, behind the retaining wall, and behind the fence, in that area - this per extensive computer enhancement work I have done on the films and photos.

I may not have quoted this here, so I will do it again.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you see this little pedestal back up here?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Just above the "X" where you were standing?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see anybody standing up there that you can remember, durring the time the president went by?

Mr. HUDSON - Oh, there was a bunch of people in there, you know, a whole bunch of them - a lot of people in there - a lot of people in here. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you se anybody standing up there taking motion pictures with a movie camera?

Mr. HUDSON - Oh, yes; I seen people up there trying to get - taking pictures.

It is becoming very strongly held in some quarters that JFK was killed by a shot from the SOUTH KNOLL, as he faced left he was shot from his left front.

Hope this is helpful, welcome New Members...thank you all...

I strongly do NOT agree with that. He was hit in the throat. The throat doesn't rotate much when the head is turned, but from everything I have seen, Kennedy was facing his right.

Take out the Warren Report. Examine the exhibit of the windshield. Now look at Altgens and examine the windshield. The 'spiral shaped hole' is in the background. It is a combination of what appears to be a small black child's hair, and a pleat or something in the woman's dress standing next to her. This same hole, IMO, cannot be confused with the area of brightness found in Zapruder [frame #?]. However, if you look at Altgens, there is evidence of perhaps 2 bulletholes. One is lower, and if you draw a line from the underpass curb area at Main, where Tague was hit, and take that back to the DalTex window, you have a perfect trajectory for a shot that narrowly missed Kennedy's head, penetrated the windshield from the rear, and went on it course, unjacketed perhaps, to strike the curb and wound Tague. Perhaps the FBI report issued concerning the lead was the only true piece of evidence that ever emerged in the case.

Now examine the exhibit, ce350, and compare it to the location of what appear to be genuine bulletholes. I say this because I devoted many hours to working on the windshield. Not a photogrammetry expert, I apply simple logic. If I focus on the rearview mirror, and do my best to enhance it and pull it forward, then the next closest object would be the windshield, which should stand out in relief. It does, and the classic 'spiral hole' fades into the background. But the bulletholes do not.

In a high quality, early version of the Altgens photo, it's difficult to even see where this spiral shaped hole would have even come from in later photos. Anyway, compare it to the Warren Exhibit. There are 2 specific areas of tint applied to the photograph in exactly and precisely the same exact areas as I see the bulletholes in Altgens! A highly improbably coincidence.

Now, take the glass shards that hit Kennedy. This could have come from a shot from the front, but not from the South Knoll. I believe there may have been a shot from the front, but it came from closer to the Lincoln, and it failed to fully penetrate the glass. It may have been responsible for causing the damage to the rear view mirror.

Mitch Werbells taught SIONICS. In these training courses, shooting a target through a windshield was taught - at point blank range, and holding the weapon at a 45 degree angle to the windshield. This was obviously to allow for more accurate penetration, and prevent any innocents from getting tagged. Taking a shot through a windshield at what would amount to a 5 - 15 degree angle from more than a hundred yards away is insane and highly unlikely.

Now consider the Stemmons Sign. Was it hit? If so, where? If it wasn't hit, why remove it and put up a new one? Jack White, as per his bio on Spartacus, discovered:

(D) Looking at the Stemmons sign, in frame 161 it is in perfect condition, but by frame 183 there is a significant notch on the top left edge, yet by frame 188, the notch disappears

Now let's examine the wound. Parkland Doctors were puzzled by what appeared to be a very small entrance wound. The insinuation, or course, was that the jacket was discarded when it smashed it's way through the windshield. How about hitting the top edge of the sign instead? If you watch the Zapruder film, and you consider a Retaining wall shot, the shooter would have had to have taken the shot moments before his target would have passed out of view behind the Stemmons sign.

Groden believes that the throat shot had to have come from the knoll, due to his close examination of the Z-film. He says Kennedy is turned too far to his right to have allowed for a wound like that to have come from anywhere but the Knoll area.

Now examine the Zapruder film again. Kennedy appears to be reacting from the shot to the throat in roughly z197, correct? Take a look at the side panels. In the ghost images, 195 - z208, say, there appears what looks to be a rifle. These images are captured by the aperture, which focuses outwards in a cone. They are not within the direct target area, as seen through the viewfinder. The 'rifle' shaped object appears to waver, then recoil. Note that even with the studies made on the claw, the aperture, overlapping images, etc., there is nothing that can explain the reaction of this object, as it moves forward and backward. There is nothing within the main action area that could even be used as an argument for this object. Within frames of the recoil, we see Kennedy reacting to the shot. Another impossible coincidence, IMO.

Add that all together, plus the cop that was guarding the Underpass area at the South Knoll, and you've got a retaining wall shot for the throat shot. I was told by a witness to the assassination [Groden's sidekick - Brown?], with some rather colorful language I might add, that this cop [whose name escapes me] was a personal friend, who was in no way associated with the conspiracy, and would have acted quickly to remove any such shooter in that vicinity.

And it's a shame that once something becomes published, everyone has to quote it as if it's an historical document with 100% accuracy and an established fact.

IMO.

email me if you'd like to see some of the supporting photographic stuff, I am unable to post images.

- lee

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This should help orient the testimony, Main, Elm, Houston, etc.

Great threads recently, lots of material.

The blood puddles at the site of the Classic Gunman and

behind the Texas Building, they are very interestering.

Al Currier agrees with me that this was the work of

a triangulated ambush team with radiomen, snipers, and spotters.

I have often wondered who and where the base station was, HQ.

Inside the Dal Textile Building, who was co-ordinating radio traffic? Hunt?

What about the reconning tower above the tracks behind the north Knoll?

The traffic was heavy in and out of the tower and lot,

and the car seen in NIX, these things are still intriguing to me.

It is becoming very strongly held in some quarters that JFK was killed by a shot from the SOUTH KNOLL, as he faced left he was shot from his left front.

Hope this is helpful, welcome New Members...thank you all...

Members

I have perused the web and our ED.FORUM/JFK site has the best visual aids

to help judge the Lunar Photographs authenticity debate,

thanks to our member, Jack White.

The only better source is the exhaustive NASA site itself:

http://www.apolloarchive.com/apollo_gallery.html

Please go through the 16mm and Hasselblad stills with a critical mind.

REVIEW THE APOLLO STILLS, these are worth looking at!

[Jack Didn't Apollo Twelve Have a Different Art Director Than Apollo Eleven ?]

I have started a new thread in POLITICAL CONSPIRACIES regarding

faked moon mission photos. It will be devoted to Apollo 12, since I have

about completed Apollo 11. The other "missions" will follow later.

Please visit the POLITICAL CONSPIRACIES section and view the

evidence, and please post your opinions. I want to know how many among

you are studying the evidence.

Thanks.

Jack

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much has been written of guy bannister and LHO sharing a corner space of a building on 544 camp street and 531 lafayette street but what is not known is that this is part of the newman building which was owned by none other than E.Howard Hunt.

Kill Zone, Craig Roberts, pg50

john

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Good Thread starter, Is this True?

These are the offices that the Ed Asner and Jack Lemmon characters

played in Oliver Stone's JFK

In New Orleans the 544 Camp Street and 531 Lafayette saw a lot

of weird comings and goings

FBI, Private Eyes, Pro Castro Cuban and who else?

The Naval Intelligence building was there as well, and Oswald was

apparently MI/ONI

But I only know the outline.

Howard Hunt was reputed to be the CIA WH (western hemisphere)

US Domestic Operations executive officer in 1963,

what was his connection with 544 Camp/531 Lafayette in New Orleans?

Thanks Al, for fleshing out your views.

This is very much in keeping with my triangulated ambush theory.

The Fifty millimeter is an elephant gun, for large and threatening beasts on the order of the Rhinoceros or adult male lion.

The Mauser, a 30.06 and a few Il Duce Mussolini "black" 6.5 rifles would have done the job. The sporting goods junk rifle with the left mounted loose scope could not have done the job, as per the WC report.

Al- I only believe that a .22 was used in a forward, early throat shot because of the obliterated wound and the Zapruder reactions, Elbows up, reaching for throat with both hands. Like many other elements, it is not SOP, but there it is.

You and I differ on the motivation and implications, but I noticed on another thread

that you believe the 1963 Secret Service Lincoln was going Five Miles Per Hour,

and now your theory correllates closely with mine.

I have fired a 50 caliber and so I don't have to look at the pictures.

Cheers to LE.

If you would like, I could add to this by detailing the reasons for the multiple positions for such a shot scenario which is consistent with what we have found in this investigation and what is trained to military snipers. It also deals with witness recall and the layout of the plaza.

Al[/color]

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I suspect we would all like! Thanks!

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First of all, Dealey Plaza has somewhat of an Amphitheatre effect as it has tall buildings to the rear, sloping grounds to each side and the triple underpass in the foreground. Where the sloping and curving roadway makes this a less than perfect ambush site, the terrain allows for multiple shooters and the ability to cover the origins of shooters who are in less than ideal positions that would allow their escape.

The military teaches their snipers a technique in setting up such an ambush that is referred to as a “canyon shoot”. In rural and even more so in urban situations, the shoot origin with the most ideal position is generally in an exposed placement. In order to eleviate the problem of allowing this ideal positioned shooter an unhampered escape, other snipers are brought in, in more ideal positions for escape and they will utilized their shot detonations to cover the origin of the exposed sniper.

In the sequence of events in DP, some 83% of the witnesses heard one shot origin for the three or more shots they heard fired on the Presidential motorcade. These 83% of the wits detected an original shot origin detonation and their critical stress recall placed all shots from that same position. Of the 17% that reported multiple shot origin positions, they would have been in close proximity to the limo or totally away from the plaza. Those in close proximity would have detected the bullet bow shockwave of the bullet in flight passing by them enroute to the target. Of those outside the theatre of operation, their stress level would have been lessened and they would have been able to rationalize other shot origins.

IMHO, the shot from the rear that so many of the wits and protective parties reported on, was the originating shot they cued the other shooters to fire and covered their origins. Audio Stimulus is the quickest reaction stimulus of the senses. While many report on radio traffic from each shot origin to the other and possibly from on the ground in DP, this would create a delay in follow-up shots to the originating shot and would not work in this situation. Often times radio traffic is not an option and in this case, it may have been the staging confirmation that all point of shot origin had a clear and unobstructed view of the target within the targets traveled path in the plaza. Once the shooting started, the radios would no longer be a factor in this.

I believe in three shot origins, possibly more. One being the one that starts the sequence and it originated from the rear on the 6th floor of the TSBD. This was not an ideal location for target elimination as it involved a sixty foot elevation that would create a gravitational pull factor and the terrain of the roadway would create additional problems. The second being on the north knoll. Although this was the closest in proximity to the target, it dealt with issues of a crossing target with variable speeds at close range. This would create a tracking problem. The third would be from the front to the south that would have the target closing in a more direct fashion at the time of the kill shot. The latter being the most ideal for panning on a moving target.

Al

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Great thread.

Oswald was an expendable low level intelligence asset.

If he wasn't a defector program for the joint agencies,

he sure looked like one and should have been watched.

His contacts with Embassies and Executives is obviously

coached or coerced counterintelligence material.

Thank you Nancy Eldreth for the letter from O. to Connally.

This is the product of a triple agent, a false man...

If Permindex was indeed a Swiss Firm that attempted to assassinate DeGaulle,

and Dresser shows a Harriman Company going into Halliburton, then

the links are there to see.

Jack Ruby had Raul, Wyllie in his effects, the man from Halliburton.

George Bush Sr. worked for Dresser.

Dresser was probably his domestic cover during his CIA stint in the 1960's.

These corporate private board interests (Anne Armstrong, Hunt family, Bush family) privatized and corrupted the huge and secretive US arms industry.

That should be clear, the relation between these 1960s Brown and Root activities

and today's rampant triumphalism on the part of Cheney and the Halliburton.

A few weeks ago I suggested that if we could discover who knew where Oswald was working and then who selected the motorcade route we might have a link to a top level conspirator.  Others suggested that Oswald was to small a fish to be monitored so closely.

In Jefferson Morley's article, "What Jane Roman Said," we find these quotes:

"Newman then reviewed the routing slips on two documents about Oswald that Roman herself had received in September 1963.

The first was the FBI report from agent Hosty in Dallas. Hosty reported on Oswald's address in the summer of 1963 and his recent leftist political activities, including his subscription to the Socialist Worker newspaper.

The second report was more provocative. It was a report from the FBI in New Orleans, dated September 23, 1963. (leaves one week for Roman to have received this document, my addition) Oswald, it seemed, had gotten arrested. He had been handing out FPCC pamphlets on a street corner in New Orleans on August 9, 1963 when he was confronted by some members of the militantly anti-Castro group called the Directorio Revolucionario Estudantil or DRE, which was known to North American newspaper readers as the Cuban Student Directorate. An altercation ensued. Oswald and some of the Cubans were arrested. An agent in the New Orleans office of the FBI wrote up a report and sent it to Washington."

Adding other know information to Morley's article:

On November 5, 1963 agent Hosty sent another memo that stated where Oswald was working.  The motorcade route was finalized about November 7, 1963.  Edwin Walker had been shot at on April 10, 1963 (officially unknown by whom at that time).  The Morley article indicates that the CIA, at top levels, was monitoring the memos sent by Hosty (at least his memo of summer 1963) and in the case of the New Orleans FBI agent had the information in the hands of "Tom Karamessines, who served as top deputy to covert operations chief, Richard Helms" (Morley) in less than one week.  The Roman story suggests that the CIA could/should/did know that the route selected passed by Oswald's place of employment two weeks in advance of the assassination.

Jim Root

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Thomas Karamessines.

He was structurally located where he would have known of

cuban activities

joint military paramilitary efforts

domestic covert CIA operations

domestic WH ops and plans shrouded from FBI

FBI information on Defectors

Supervisory over Hunt, Des Fitzgerald, Shackley, Barnes and Harvey (!)

I have known about the structural links suggestive of Thomas Karamessines to this operation for many years.

The joint military paramilitary CIA-Pentagon domestic plans and operations emanating from the offices of Langley, Fort Meade and the Joint Staff,

shielded from probing Justice Department and FBI investigation.

Domestic and foreign operations of the joint military agency group would come to full fruition under Maxwell Taylor...

In order to act, a rationalization along the lines of Unfitness or Incapacity was invoked, probably, on JFK's security clearances.

The picture at left has always been identified as a Marine Corps

photo of LEE Oswald. This composite shows it much more likely

that it is a photo of ROBERT Oswald.

Jack

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Good catch Jack.

These came from a Road Atlas circa 1990.

A popular Download, Updated and Re- Submitted.

The 50 mm sniper rifle developed by Browning in the 1980s

was removed from the market January First in California.

My theory is that a .22 got him John Kennedy in the throat,

Rifle fire from the rear - 30.06? caused the Teague and forward

bone material (Roberdeau) and a final fatal headshot came in from the front left

and exited the right rear skull

and this is covered up in the Xrays and autopsy photos

to throw credibility back on the rear shooters, who got Connally and JFK in the back.

The Fifty Caliber didn't play a role, but I am interested in the silencers, small arms and special ammunition.

Also I believe more than one Mannlicher Carcano was in play,

possibly the Il Duce unmarked cache of Italian Guard rifles

captured and maintained by US forces in Italy in WWII.

I am convinced that the serial numbers show forgery and multiple "Oswald" rifles.

Perhaps a Mauser 7.6 (?) was found that day and suppressed, much evidence there.

Wim Dankbaar believes Jimmy Files shot JFK with a Large Pistol, the .222 Fireball.

Spotters, radio companions and drivers do indeed point to an ambush cell of three coordinated trios, nine people---before the evidentiary and intimidation sweeps, that adds ten to twenty more, the railroad observers, the men in suits sweeping the Plaza..........

2/05

Members

I have perused the web and our ED.FORUM/JFK site has the best visual aids to help judge the Lunar Photographs authenticity debate, thanks to our member, Jack White.

The only better source is the exhaustive NASA site itself:

http://www.apolloarchive.com/apollo_gallery.html

Please go through the 16mm and Hasselblad stills with a critical mind.

REVIEW THE STILLS, these are worth looking at!

Happy New Year Dawn and John

John and I were discussing Pierre Bourdieu's views on class.

I think sociology is useful in understanding the mindset of these players.

The Politics and Economics are important, but people see themselves

as being in a certain class. The entitlement, the arrogance,

willful blindness, ingrained coarseness...

this is the habitus, the mental landscape

of the COWBOY.

[Re:Carl Oglesby THE COWBOY VERSUS YANKEE WAR]

Secrecy, an priviness and sense of authority over illegal and clandestine operations, the ability to change and shape the facts and records...

these powers lead to a new and alien group, a class of people set apart,

overly willing to use, enjoy, deny the reality of and yet revel in the use of violence.

Of course JFK 11/22/63, Vietnam War and today's Gulf War and the Global War on Terror (sic) are linked, via these Ford Presidency era political players.

CHENEY, WOLFOWITZ, PERLE, RUMSFELD, BUSH fils

form a sociological habitus or separated class based mindset.

Merged with TEXACO, HALLIBURTON and the PENTAGON'S private corporate and revolving door interests.

Bush Rumsfeld and CHeney are the activists that emerged to rule the USA after the fall of the counterweight, the Soviet Union.

Far more radically activist than Reagan, Nixon or Eisenhower,

The present regime is the proximate and functioning heir to the illegal operations, plans and programs exposed on these historical threads.......

The discussions of my youth which I participated in, by observing---they just now make sense.

In best FBI memo fashion, I'll give you what stands out in my mind, circa 1973.

LYNDON JOHNSON, H.L. HUNT, CLINT MURCHISON, OIL DEPLETION ALLOWANCE, BELL HELLICOPTER, LADY BIRD'S RADIO STATION, HOWARD HUGHES, VIETNAM, HENRY CABOT LODGE, ALLEN DULLES, BAY OF PIGS, ARMY LSD EXPERIMENTS,

OPERATION PHOENIX, MILITARY COUP FOR WAR IN VIETNAM, EUGENE BRADING, HOWARD HUNT, DAVE PHILLIPS, DES FITZGERALD, 1963 SECRET SERVICE BRAKED TO A HALT, FAKED AUTOPSY PHOTOS AND X-RAYS, MARTIN LUTHER KING MURDERED, ROBERT F. KENNEDY MURDERED. RICHARD NIXON WINS.

WAR CONTINUES. GERALD FORD, of the the WARREN COMMISSION

named Vice President, NIXON RESIGNS FORD PRESIDENT

etc etc etc

This is a capsule of cultural and political idioms and tropes I was exposed to growing up in the 1960s and 1970s...I hope it is helpful, I know the FORUM is very healthy for SHANET CLARK...

John and I were discussing Pierre Bourdieu's views on class.

I think sociology is useful in understanding the mindset of these players.

The Politics and Economics are important, but people see themselves

as being in a certain class. The entitlement, the arrogance,

willful blindness, ingrained coarseness...

this is the habitus, the mental landscape

of the COWBOY.

[Re:Carl Oglesby THE COWBOY VERSUS YANKEE WAR]

Secrecy, an priviness and sense of authority over illegal and clandestine operations, the ability to change and shape the facts and records...

these powers lead to a new and alien group, a class of people set apart,

overly willing to use, enjoy, deny the reality of and yet revel in the use of violence.

Of course JFK 11/22/63, Vietnam War and today's Gulf War and the Global War on Terror (sic) are linked, via these Ford Presidency era political players.

CHENEY, WOLFOWITZ, PERLE, RUMSFELD, BUSH fils

form a sociological habitus or separated class based mindset.

Merged with TEXACO, HALLIBURTON and the PENTAGON'S private corporate and revolving door interests.

Bush Rumsfeld and CHeney are the activists that emerged to rule the USA after the fall of the counterweight, the Soviet Union.

Far more radically activist than Reagan, Nixon or Eisenhower,

The present regime is the proximate and functioning heir to the illegal operations, plans and programs exposed on these historical threads.......

I don't doubt that the murder of an elected head of state is a significant event. However conspiracy theories regarding JFK do rather rest on the assumption that he would have done something rather interesting with his position had he lived... I can see no evidence that this was likely - instead he cuts the  figure of a rather incompetent President in life and a hugely overblown media myth after his death.

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Well, I see we have won an enormous victory by having this individual be our administrator, so thank you John and Andy!

JFK was shot when I was 18 months old.

It is hard to describe the degree that his death and the events of 1968 hangs over my life, a true backdrop to all my political questions.

The intelligence "theme" doesn't start at James Bond, it starts with

Bullwinkle the Moose and Rocket J. Squirrel (spies)

Major Matt Mason (a 1960's toy astronaut)

Wild Wild West (counter-intelligence western TV show)

The Day of the Jackal (popular novel and film)

Executive Action (popular film)

The discussions of my youth which I participated in, by observing---they just now make sense.

In best FBI memo fashion, I'll give you what stands out in my mind, circa 1973.

LYNDON JOHNSON, H.L. HUNT, CLINT MURCHISON, OIL DEPLETION ALLOWANCE, BELL HELLICOPTER, LADY BIRD'S RADIO STATION, HOWARD HUGHES, VIETNAM, HENRY CABOT LODGE, ALLEN DULLES, BAY OF PIGS, ARMY LSD EXPERIMENTS,

OPERATION PHOENIX, MILITARY COUP FOR WAR IN VIETNAM, EUGENE BRADING, HOWARD HUNT, DAVE PHILLIPS, DES FITZGERALD, 1963 SECRET SERVICE BRAKED TO A HALT, FAKED AUTOPSY PHOTOS AND X-RAYS, MARTIN LUTHER KING MURDERED, ROBERT F. KENNEDY MURDERED. RICHARD NIXON WINS.

WAR CONTINUES. GERALD FORD, of the the WARREN COMMISSION

named Vice President, NIXON RESIGNS

FORD PRESIDENT

etc etc etc

This is a capsule of cultural and political idioms and tropes I was exposed to growing up in the 1960s and 1970s...I hope it is helpful, I know the FORUM is very healthy for SHANET CLARK>

Of course I am in the group wanting more photo analyses.

So Angleton and Papich worked together on issues touching on Oswald and Cuban exilism.

Structurally he was a handler, a briefer and a front.

A go between. If there was a military defector from Atsugi into Moscow/Minsk, officers like Papich and Angleton must have known that the KGB must have known these were potential double agents.

Oswald's presence in the USSR and US and Atsugi and with organized crime Cuban exilists meant that US agencies of 1963 were responsible for him, either programming him or watching him because he may have been programmed in Minsk.

My point is that the joint intelligence programs were operating on domestic soil, under NSC-1947 and executive orders WITHOUT the knowledge or co-operation of the FBI and legitimate State and Local authorities.

The FBI and Hoover and the DAs under RFK were specifically circumvented,

under color of law, on domestic US terrain, for counter-intuitive and Cold War brinksmanship. Maheu and Papich used Roselli and Giancana and formed a CIA Cosa Nostra alliance, with greater WH western hemisphere interests (nelson rockefeller, united fruit co, the anti-arbenz front) inside the United States.

Papich unfortunately was a central agent in all this nefarious blind spying and domestic programs ab use of the late 1950s and early 1960's .

If I remember correctly, didn't Angelton send Papich a memo around March of 1961 regarding the two guys (one calling himself Lee Oswald) from the Friends of Democratic Cuba who in January of the same year, tried to buy trucks from the Bolton Ford dealership?

If true, then Papich was well aware of the Oswald persona for over two and a half years before the assassination.

James

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I am reminded of the American Colonial War, the War of Jenkin's Ear.

Hunt is tied to the event on many other grounds, and the story Chauncey Holt told is very provocative and internally cohesive and logical piece. He was there with the other people that we know were there and he had a radio scanner in the boxcar, after farming out bogus federal identity papers, which if done at all, is a massive felony, so it points to Holt working for someone with real US credentials.

Holt and Harrelson being filmed on a perpetrator walk across the Plaza, and the confusion about their identity and the later claim that three unfortunates were the real guys (abrams, et al.) Very strange and compelling story, full of enigmas and meaning. Holt's story, which suffers from the fact that he engaged in scripted and self derived misinformation, and hurts his ability to recall factually.

But Holt has a great angle that we need to link up with Mitch WerBell's silencers, Holt's Funny Papers.................

Tramp's ear:

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/trampear.JPG

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/holt1.gif

Hunt's ear:

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/hunt1.gif

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/hunt2.jpg

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/hunt.gif

Chauncey's ear:

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/Holt5.jpg

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