Shanet Clark

THere is some information on "JFK murder solved" (Wim Dankbaar's

website) that shows that JJ McCLOY was seriously entertaining

the possibility of a forward shooter. Wim posted the letter McCloy

wrote to WC counsel Rankin about Rankin's book manuscript.

It is hedged, of course, but a careful reading shows that if a little

more evidence of a forward shooter had surfaced, McCloy would probably

have gone on record supporting this, a gunman on the overpass (or knoll).

Since Jackie chased Jack's skull fragment back onto the rear hood,

the forward shooter was so obvious that McCloy (indirectly) admitted it.

Check it out.

I urge everyone to click on that link.

Here are some more suspects, the

kind who didn't get muddy or leave

their car behind the grassy knoll.

Thank you.

Why is he a suspect?

Does anyone have anything else on Jack Lawrence?

Where in West Virginia? (Shanet Clark)

Hi Shanet,

I can tell you that between 1979 and 1984, Lawrence was ministering at the Kodiak Church of God in Alaska. I guess he figured that no one would bother him out there.

The last address I have for him is -

1903 Lincoln Avenue

Saint Albans

WV 25177

Ph: 304-727-8104

Don't expect to be greeted with the open arms.

Looking back at the FBI investigation, it was interesting how they tip toed around Lawrence. I also seem to remember that Beverly Oliver claimed to have danced with him at the Cabana the night before the assassination but he told her his name was Donny Allan Lance.

FWIW.

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Robert Maheu, cover photo from

UP AGAINST HOWARD HUGHES: THE MAHEU STORY

Does anyone have anything else on Jack Lawrence?

Where in West Virginia?

I also would recommend taking a good, hard look at a man named, Jack Lawrance, if my spelling is correct, as a possible candidate for the actual kill-shot. (John Ritchson)

Hi John,

You may already know this but Jack Lawrence is actually Reverend Jack Lawrence from the Abney Street Church in West Virginia.

I corresponded with the good reverend a few years ago and let's just say that he was less than helpful. 

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pat,

If the bullet was placed on the stretcher by someone,

what evidence is there that it was found in the limo?

Isn't it just as likely that a bullet fired by the 6.5 rifle was

planted, and the other caliber bullets were removed under color of law...?

According to Michael Drosnin's CITIZEN HUGHES, Nixon invited Howard Hughes to a 1969 dinner for the NASA team that (may have) gone to the Moon.

Nixon knew Hughes would not come, but the invitation was a way to get the FBI to look into Hughes.

According to FBI Director J.E.Hoover, Howard Hughes was "a ruthless, unscrupulous individual who at times acted like a 'screwball paranoic' to the

extent that he, Hughes, might be capable of anything, including murder."

and apparently Maheu was the FBI source....

John D. Hurt was an early player in the game described so well

in James Bamford's PUZZLE PALACE.

As an international counter-intelligence linguist with military intelligence

connections, it is no wonder he went insane.

I don't think anyone was setting him up as a patsy, because a

patsy from the Signals Intelligence corps was not a misdirection, but

a hot lead into the joint paramilitary activity possibly behind 11/22/63.

Again, I believe that Oswald was reaching out to a trusted core contact

in US intelligence, probably the "civilian" who had recruited him into counter-

intelligence at Atsugi in 1959. Oswald probably thought he could trust the

man who first brought him into counter-intelligence, and was seeking help,

guidance and re-assurance from the trusted individual he had worked with

before Minsk, before DeMorenschildt, before Hunt, and before Hosty.

"I called him" is quite a preposterous confession by the older and disturbed Hurt, since the memos show the attempted outgoing call and the testimony shows the call was not put through. All together it points to joint civilian military

counter-intelligence program involving Oswald and John D. Hurt.

HUH?

The major problem with any ballistics analysis of 11/22/63

is the absolute lack of reliable information on the wounds.

Was the throat wound a gunshot?

Was the back of the head blown out?

Was the right temple destroyed?

Was the entry wound obscured or moved?

Where did the bullets go that entered Kennedy, the Limo and Connally?

How do we orient the strange close-up photos of the head, the ones

with the V-shape?

I think all we can say for sure is that many more than TWO bullets

entered the limo, and some but not all were from the front.

The NIX and Zapruder film both show Jackie following a piece of Skullbone

back onto the rear hood, and I see absolutely no way this was a rear shot.

Beyond that the angles are difficult to re-create,

although the theory that a bullet entered at the back, went up, exited the

throat and shirt cleanly, and hit connally in three places, that is just absurd.

Evan-

I deleted the theory because it got absolutely no support.

My friend Joe was quite convinced that FDR died before Yalta

and a body double was sent to deal with Churchill and Stalin.

Joe had apparently read a book by one of FDR's doctors,

and was convinced of this hoax....since no one had any

support, I deleted it.

Shanet

Trento is a mixed bag. He broke the story of a CIA memo concerning Hunt in Dallas, and here is a bit of Mark Lane's deposition of Trento for the libel trial Howard Hunt brought against Victor Marchetti (the Trento article was similar, and excupatory, to the Marchetti piece on Hunt).

From: PLAUSIBLE DENIAL BY MARK LANE Thunder's Mouth Press, 1991.

{Under subpoena, Trento was ordered to bring certain documents to the deposition.}

June 28, 1984

LANE: This is an action brought by E. Howard Hunt against Liberty Lobby

{publisher of Marchetti article on Hunt in Dallas} in the United States

District Court, Southern district of Florida. We are going to be deposing you

today about matters relating to that. Did you bring any documents?

A. No, I have no material. I wrote this article six years ago and Isince have left the Sunday News Journal. And as far as I can tell, all the materials are gone. Most of my files were destroyed after a year or so.

Lane: Did you bring the article with you?

A. No. I have not seen the article since I wrote it.

[Trento confirmed the fact that he had written the article but was careful not to volunteer any information about how he had done so. I handed him a copy of his work. LANE]

Lane. If you would look at exhibit one or four, I am going to ask you some questions about it.

A. All right.

Q. The first paragraph of that article states, “A secret CIA memorandum says that E. Howard Hunt was in Dallas the day President John F. Kennedy was murdered and that top agency officials plotted to cover up Hunt’s presence there.” Is that correct?

A. That’s correct.

Q. Can you tell me the basis of that statement?

A. Sources within the agency and outside the agency.

Q. When you say agency, you mean the Central Intelligence Agency?

A. Right.

Q. Will you tell us who in the CIA gave you that information?

A. No, I would not.

Q. What is the reason you are not telling us that?

A. I have an agreement with my sources to protect their identity.

Q. Will you tell us who outside of the CIA gave you that information.

A. I would not.

Q. And the reason?

A. The same, to protect their identity.

Q. Can you tell us how many people within the CIA you relied upon as sources for that first paragraph?

A. No.

Q. And why is that?

A. I feel in order to protect their confidentiality that I agreed with them to protect, that to give numbers or mention numbers would endanger that confidentiality.

Q. Would you tell us how many people outside of the CIA you relied upon as sources for that first paragraph?

A. No.

Q. For the same reason?

A. For the same reason.

Q. I am going to ask you about sources throughout, and I take it that whenever you decline—let’s see if we can come to an agreement so you don’t have’to say this each time, plus confer with counsel—but whenever you decline, it will be for reasons just stated?

A. Protection of my sources, that is correct.

So if this gentleman went from a CIA inside source "leaker" to a grandiose KGB theory based on these contacts, including Angleton, then you can all draw your own conclusions.

Didn't his theory come straight from the lips of J.J. Angleton?

About fifteen months ago I was in New York and saw on cable TV

a very legitimate and compelling TV show,

I believe it was called "the Men Who Killed Kennedy"

I have also heard that this show was pulled off the air

and was subject to some sort of quiet corporate censorship.

Apparently some people have come forward with evidence that

a Dallas local mortician flew with JFK's body and casket from Dallas to D.C.

This mortician was connected to Jack Ruby's Carousel circle. (photos were shown)

He may have inflenced the tissue, bone and bullet fragments

compostion of the President's head, if this is true.

It seemed to be a very high production quality television show,

similar to Bill Kurtis's Investigative Reports.

Does anyone have any information on the CAROUSEL CLUB photos

or affadavit concerning the wife of the Dallas mortician in question?

What was his name, and is this a valid angle of enquiry?

The suppressed film also had quite a bit of compelling material concerning

a party or solidarity gathering the night before the murder, with Clint

Murchison and Lyndon Johnson (among others) in attendance.

Anybody have the tapes or at least the names that were featured ?

But is he really inside the embassy grounds or just posted at the gate?

In other words, we can get our guy to pose outside the gate,

but we can't very well get our guy to go inside the Soviet

embassy grounds just to take his picture.

Why do you say the Agencies would have released the photo if it

had showed Oswald?

If it showed the real Lee Harvey, then the agencies would have taken

heat for knowing about his approach and not doing anything.

Releasing these photos just muddies the water, an Oswald photo would

have been directly incriminating.

Did they ever release the transcripts of the Oswald/Cuban Embassy or

Oswald/Soviet embassy tapes, or bugs?

I don't think so. Since for the agency to release any PHOTO is unusual

the whole thing feels greatly overworked and misdirected.

And yes it would be much better to use an asset for the photo, but he

might also be "Joe Russia" in Mexico City....

Doug Dillon was in the film "executive action" ?

That totally blows my mind.

In the WISE MEN book, Dillon is shown to be Robert Lovett's

choice for treasury when Lovett himself demurred for health

reasons.

What is the CIA connection?

James,

Take a look at the theory I posted above -

I think it went out after you posted.

GREAT PIX!

Is this inside the Soviet or Cuban compound?

Or is this just a guy fooling around between the gate and the camera?

He looks like he is "addressing" the camera, don't you think?

So many questions...

I think he looks Russian....

... MOCK "yeah"

... ING "yeah"

... BIRD "yeah"

MOCK-ING-BIRD yeah yeah

....and if this Mockingbird don't sing

I am going to buy you a diamond ring!

James Taylor, Atlantic Records, 1977

Mexico City was the CIA's control center (located out of the USA) for western hemisphere (WH) activities.

Howard Hunt was WH domestic (US) operations officer in 1963, and the Cuban

and Caribbean efforts, Che Guevara murder, etc., emanated from Mexico City...

Supposedly audio taps show Oswald in the Russian and Cuban embasssies a few weeks before JFK's murder. He was looking for KOSTIKOV, a thirteenth bureau (black ops) KGB agent.

When the CIA produced the photos, which is unusual in and of itself,

they only showed a bluff balding man who looks nothing like Oswald.

All very murky indeed, but Gallego would have known some insider material.

If Oswald was there, the CIA had reason to present a false and misleading photo.

If he was not there, then someone posing as him was.

If he was there, then the WATCHLIST should have kicked in and never

let him near a motorcade...this is the material J. Edgar Hoover was

(apparently) so furious about, that the CIA would keep information

about potential defector assassins from domestic law enforcement...

JAMES AND JIM:

I have a scenario about the taps and photos.

Say one of the 1963 US intelligence agencies, NSA/CIA, had audio of Oswald talking to Soviet and Cuban Embassy officers in Mexico City.

To protect themselves after Dallas, what should they do?

Another agency (MI5, certainly the KGB) would also have the evidence of Oswald

at the Soviet Embassy and Cuban Embassy...and this could get out.

So they look through the photos, and WHETHER OSWALD WAS IN ONE OR NOT

they release pictures of another guy, throwing the whole event into question.

More complicated, but plausible, counter-intelligence schemes are possible,

but this is a simple, cover your &%# type release:

"we were supposed to know that Oswald was looking for the

KGB 13th bureau agent and reporting to the Cuban Embassy as well,

but we weren't negligent in intercepting him before killing Kennedy,

....because it wasn't Oswald anyway..."

Doesn't that make sense?

Correct, Clarence Douglass Dillon, GOP Secretary of the Treasury under JFK and executive cabinet officer of the Secret Service on 11/22/63.

If you are interested in this angle, it is on my Seminar thread: "was JFK's assassination legal?"

It concerns the possibility of executive sanction due to incapacity, and considers that the Warren Commission report and the contemporaneous Twenty Fifth Amendment to the Constitution both, together, can explain Dallas...

I believe the driver, Mr. GREER, was just following orders when he drove at walking speed through an armed ambush.

Skeptical critical thinking is what is called for, and some

people have a hard time seriously considering malfeasance

and fraud on the part of national authorities.

Most of here are willing to engage that possibility, if the evidence supports it.

One example, comparing two government evidence photos-

The picture of JFK with a bullet hole in his back, and a full head of hair.

Compare this to the other autopsy photo where Kennedy's

brains are hanging out like gutted bowels.

The evidence of one photo forgery leads us to consider others,

like the bright white XRAY of Kennedy's occiput (or back of the head)...

(see Dr. Minken's Seminar on the Xrays and Photos...)

I welcome Troglia's conventional and standard defenses,

they are an important part of the debate....

To be blunt, the scepticism surrounding Mr. Hemmings

is much greater than the scepticism surrounding Tosh Plumlee.

Welcome to the FORUM though,

and we look forward to debating these specifics.

So Trento's theory came straight from James Jesus Angleton?

Run away! Run 180 degrees in the other direction!

...either way he was too hot to handle, and was turned into the lone nut.

Double Post,

Server has been down recently...

1/24/05 Z1900

Central elements of the government authorized cover up:

1. JFK's Brain, Brain Xray and Autopsy Photos of the Head.

2. Murder of Oswald

3. Suppression of Ballistics evidence

4. Evidence of multiple rifles

5. Evidence of Film Tampering

[blood spray and Blob in zapruder]

6. Re-direction of testimony, leading the witnesses

7. Murder of subpoenaed and well informed witnesses and participants

I agree with Jim Root that all this came from Oswald's murky

intelligence and counter intelligence aspects, which were immediately

obvious because he was a counter defector and looked like one of ours or one

of theirs, but either way he was too hot to handle, and was turned into the lone nut.

For all the sloppy, reprehensible and obstructive work

the FBI did in the investigation and liasson with the

Warren Commission, I also fail to see direct FBI sponsorship

of the assassination itself.

I believe Hoover's surprise and anger about being kept

in the dark about Oswald was real.

Although they came together in a united front to properly

cover the whole thing up along LN lines,

the fact is that the FBI was a legitimate domestic law enforcement

organ that was sidestepped regularly by the civilian and joint

paramilitary programs operating on domestic soil.

Keepin the FBI and "clean" police well away from the plot, the team and the

patsy was the function of the illegal paramilitary joint force in Dallas and Miami.

"The Left Hand doesn't know what the Right Hand is doing."

Sam Giancana, circa 1963.