Jim Root

Thank you James

Jim Root

I am looking for any additional information on Eugene B. Dinkin.

The last 48 hours have been interesting to say the least. Received this information (translated from French).

"Eugene B. Dinkin was a soldier stationed in Metz, Farance where he decoded and analyzed messages from Western Europe for the National Security Agency.

Dinkin intercepted two messages, one in mid October and one on November 2nd announcing the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Not being able to communicate with the exterior and without the authorization of his superiors he took advantage of the permission of a friend and sent a letter to Robert Kennedy. It is unknown if Bobby Kennedy had knowledge of this document. Dinkin announced that the assassination of JFK would occur around November 28, 1963."

Can anybody verify these dates and this information?

Of particular interest: On October 15th (mid October) Oswald is hired to work at the TSBD and begins work on the 16th.

On Nov. 1 (according to the Warren Commission) Oswald attempts to contact the ACLU and to the American Communist Party.

Remembering that Oswald returned from Mexico City to Texas on Sept. 30, 1963 we find that this busy bee quickly finds a job (October 15th, that seems to corrolate with a message that is sent to France and intercepted by Eugene Dinkin of the NSA stationed in France).

One might wonder why this type of information would be sent to France and why it was intercepted by the NSA.

I find it interesting that my research subject, John B. Hurt, upon retiring from the NSA, left for an extended visit to France.

Let me offer these thoughts for consideration:

(1) Lee Harvey Oswald attempted to contact somebody named John Hurt while in custody after the assassination of JFK,

(2) the messages intercepted in France coincide with some interestion actions by Lee Harvey Oswald and

(3) the same John B. Hurt (former NSA employee) that I believe is the John Hurt that Oswald was attempting to contact was in France at the time of the Dinkin NSA intercepts.

Is Dinkin still around?

Jim Root

Any body connected to Army Intel would have a connection to John J. McCloy. General McCloy was over all of military intelligence during WWII and I believe over all of US Intelligence for years after (America's "C").

Perhaps more importantly for those of you that are processing these posts is to remember that I believe that the relationship between John J. McCloy and General Maxwell Taylor is a primary key to this topic as well. As Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Taylor would be the "Big Fish" of military intelligence even if McCloy were not who I actually believe him to have been. Add to the menu Taylor's student and most reliable "right hand" man, Maj. Gen. Edwin Anderson Walker and the story adds additional meat for our table.

Jim Root

Brought back for additional comments

Jim Root

Brought back for additonal comments

Jim Root

Nathanial

McCloy is intriguing!

One of the earliest Warren Commission meetings that McCloy missed was missed so that McCloy could attend a the Nuclear Disamament meeting in Geneva. It was at that meeting that Yuri Nosenko defected to the United States. Was this defection a coincidence?

I think not. Both the Soviet Union and the United States had a reason, after the assassination of John F. Kennedy, to distance themselves from any association with Lee Harvey Oswald. I also believe that James Jesus Angelton suspected that Nosenko was a false defector because Angelton was positioned to know that Oswald had been used as a "patsy" when he was sent to the Soviet Union.

I will bring back an older post on Nosenko that I did.

Kai Bird's book on McCloy spends very little time dealing with the importance of the Magic intercepts during WWII. I believe it is possible that McCloy, by the time of Bird's interviews and books, was not about to emphasize this aspect of his life because it may have led to a connection to John B. Hurt. In the life of Stuart Menzies (person in charge of British Intelligence during WWII and McCloy's counterpart) the importance of protecting signals intelligence was paramount and plays a major role in any story about Menzies. Why was this aspect of McCloy's life deemphisized?

I will bring back an older post on this aspect of McCloy's life.

Jim Root

Lee

Thank you for bring this thread back to life. A lot has occured iin the past year and a half of my research and I now do believe that the assassination and the Commission Report were not two seperate incidents but rather a part of the whole tragedy. My focus for the "big fish" remains, now more than ever, John J. McCloy.

It is my belief that McCloy was, during WWII the man at the top of the intelligence stucture in the US War effort. This can be confirmed historically. McCloy was responsible for the distribution and protection of America code breaking successes as well as being at the top of the heap when dealing with the development of the Atomic Bomb.

These two historical facts associate him with John B. Hurt and the desire to put into place a nuclear non proliferation treaty that could be used to protect the world from self destruction. Kennedy's change of policy toward a Limited Test Ban Treaty begins a series of communication between McCloy and Walker as well as Taylor's comments at the commencement ceremonies at West Point. All three of these events occur in June of 1963 and all seem to point toward a topic that suggests that a President is nothing more than a temporary holder of power but that the real power lies in the protection of the nation and the Constitution.

It is at this point that I believe the conspirators believed that they had the authority to eliminate a President that they believed was not acting in the best interests of the country.

A previous post that I did quotes Taylor's speech. I encourage you to look at it with an eye toward these thoughts.

Jim Root

Lee

I continue to look at what I preceive to be the obvious now.

Today, many people believe that the Warren Commission should have been named the McCloy Commission. From the first meeting (when the lead attorney was being discussed) McCloy took control. McCloy was positioned within the intelligence community (having written most of the legislation that created the various organizations) to know, understand and (as I now believe) to control the inner group communications of these multi-layered intelligence programs. McCloy would have been placed in a position to know exactly who Lee Harvey Oswald was and how to manipulate the situation to put the motorcade in "line of site" of Oswald.

Whithin days of Lee Harvey Oswald's defection to the Soviet Union we find McCloy expressing concern over the uncomming Paris Summit, an event that would never happen because of the downing of the American U-2 spy plane. Was Oswald involved in fullfilling McCloy's desire to prevent the Paris Summit? Whould this be the first time that Oswald's name would surface in connection with McCloy's accomplishment of his goals and agenda?

By chance (?) McCloy would author a letter to Maj. Gen. Edwin Anderson Walker in June of 1963, just five months before the assassination of Kennedy (an event that would link both these men to Oswald). The subject of the correspondence would center around a man named Sylvanus Thayer who, it just so happens, became the man who established the truly professional military in the US after an event that occured on Nov. 22. Walker was involved in two particular missions during WWII, both of a sensitive intelligence nature, for McCloy yet both McCloy and Walker make a very public point of distancing themselves from each other. In retrospect why did this occur in this manner?

More established is the McCloy - Taylor relationship. They ran a country (Germany) together during the 1950's Booth would be opposed to Kennedy's reversal on nuclear arms talks and (even more than McCloy) Taylor's relationship with Walker stretched all the way back to the 1920's.

These two men, Taylor and McCloy, were positioned to have the intelligence necessary to understand the event, they both had the ability to plan such an assassination and they were positioned to control the coverup and elimination of the assassin after the event. All three men, McCloy, Taylor and Walker were speaking of Thayer during June of 1963, all within days of Kennedy's reversal of policy on disarmament.

The pieces of this puzzle fit all the available evidence begining with the mail openings in New York by Helms and Dulles at a time when Oswald was writting to the Socialist Party (Helms would still be monitoring the movements of Oswald in the days preceeding the assassination). Why?

Oswald said he was a "patsy" because he had gone to the Soviet Union. Did Oswald figure out that he had been used, not by the Socialist, not by the Communists but by the US Government to stymie the Paris Summit? Did he first take a shot at Edwin Walker after he recognized him as the man who had passed information to him on his way to Russia? After the assassination attempt on Walker, Oswald shared his displeasure with both governments for their failure at Paris while giving a speech at Spring Hill College. Was Oswald the nut that the Warren Report would have us believe or was he the "patsy" that he said he was who was sent to the Soviet Union to accomplish a mission that he had no perception of until after the event?

Looking further we find that Jackie Kennedy, at the funeral of her husband, would relate to the Soviet Ambassador that it was important that they continue her husbands work in nuclear disarmament. Was Jackie perhaps aware that the Limited Test Ban Treaty may have played a role in John F. Kennedy's death and that there were persons that did not like the direction that he had taken?

One might ask, "Did the conspirators accomplish their goal?" After the death of Kennedy, McCloy would once again be placed in charge of America's disarmament negotiators and would ultimately conclude the treaty that he so diligently had striven for for over 20 years.

McCloy did achieve his goal but only after Kennedy had been eliminiated and the truth of the assassination had been mired within the Warren Commission's Report.!

Jim Root

Sorry, double post.

Kennedy's change in US foreign policy toward a limited test ban treaty with the Soviets in June of 1963. This made the military and intelligence communities very unhappy.

Jim Root

Robert

The Murder of Admiral Darlan, Peter Tompkins, 1965 is the book I am most aware of that deals with the subject. I would be interested in reading any new books that might become available.

Tompkins was an OSS agent stationed in Rome during WWII and in North Africa previous to that time. To my knowledge he is still alive and living in Europe. I had an email address on him but he never replied to the questions that I asked him concerning persons who surround the assassination of JFK and that he may have been associated with during his OSS days in Italy, etc. Tompkins also worked with James Jesus Angelton after the war (Berlin) I believe. His book outlines a great deal of information about the inner workings of the competing French intelligence services during and after the war. An interesting read for many reasons including its date of publication and certain associations that my research suggests that Tompkins would have had with some of the potential conspirators (including McCloy and Taylor) that my research points toward.

I agree that the Warren Commission should have been actually named the McCloy Commission but then we would all have looked at this "public" person much more closely years ago.

Are you familiar with the Black Tom Case?

Jim Root

John

I agree that the selection of the members of the Warren Commission may have been the most important part of the plot that may have been hatched to assassinate Kennedy. There was a time that I looked at the crime and the investigation as two seperate events, that is no longer the case for me. Today I view the official Warren Commission Report as part and parcel to the total assassination package and the perfection of its execution may be what allows us to understand how it worked.

In some ways I guess that what I am saying is that those who were involved in the conspiracy, assuming there was a conspiracy, acted so perfectly in their actions that very few people could have been positioned to understand the mechanisms necessary to pull it all off and then also have the ability to position themselves to direct, or missdirect the commission and its findings in a way that the rest of the government would fall in line behind, protect and accept.

My investigation suggests that John J. McCloy may have been the puppeteer that was capable of manipulating the strings necessary to pull off the show and that John Sherman Cooper was just the sort of team player that was necessary in this senario.

During WWII Cooper was assigned to a group of soldiers tasked with administering the occupied territories. He was assigned to Bavaria which became a primary area for persons, with Nazi affiliations that were usefull to the Allies, gathered to surrender to the advancing American armies. Both the program that Cooper was involved in and the benifits reaped from it were subjects of interest to and controlled by John J. McCloy in his position as Asst. Sec. of War. For example Warner von Braun and his team of rocket scientist was a prize that the US Army collected in Bavaria and then integrated into their own endevors to create guided missles (which ultimately led to the creation of NASA another story).

Cooper also worked with John J. McCloy during the creation of the NATO pact. Another instrumental player in the creation of NATO would be John Hickerson who would later become the author of two notes that I believe provided the information necessary for Lee Harvey Oswald to enter the Soviet Union via Helsinki in 1959. The career of John Sherman Cooper in the Senate (or should I say in and out of the Senate) suggests a guiding hand that placed him in instumental positions when a willing hand was needed.

Is the Cooper - McCloy connection of interest? I believe so.

Jim Root

John

43 years later and we find that the "official rules" that the US Government plays by still protects the details of the activities of the interesting characters that are cast within the assassination story. The records necessarry to fully understand the events of the assassination are locked up tight behind a vail of secrecy that even the courts and congress seem unable to break open.

While we may ask, "How is this possible?" I will suggest that we take a different approach. Is it possible to connect the person who wrote the rules of the game and ask, "Can that person be implicated in the assassination and coverup?" My research seems to indicate that the undoing of the person who may have orchestrated the assassination may not have been the fact that he left some stone unturned but rather that he and perhaps he alone may have had the ability to know exactly where to bury the stones that could point to the consipators. And when some gem would turn up in the future this person would have known that the government would still be legally required to leave them burried behind the rules because he would have been the person that wrote them.

A closer look at John J. McCloy will show that he not only developed the rules that created such organizations as the CIA but he positioned himself to direct the Warren Commission's investigation of the assassination as well. Was he the fox that was guarding the hen house on November 22, 1963? I believe that this possibility exists and that a closer investigation into the "real" John J. McCloy and his history, his motives and his activities in the days, months and years that lead up to the assassination are the real key to unlocking the doors that protect the secretes of the death of a President.

Jim Root

Gerry

Welcome back and I appreciate your response to my comments.

Are you familiar with a former OSS agent named Peter Tompkins? I have attempted to contact him in the past without success. In two books that he wrote (one dealing with the assassination of Admiral Darlan and the other that deals with his OSS assignment in Rome) Tompkins mentions several points that seem to associate him with many of the leading CIA types that were in power during the early 1960's.

Tompkins also (in his Darlan book) seems to associate information between the two assassinations (Kennedy and Darlan) that peaked my interst many years ago. When I discovered comments written by NSA employee John B. Hurt that mentioned the assassination of Admiral Darlan I was further intrigued by this event.

You once made a comment while answering a question of mine about Maxwell Taylor,

"I have never heard even a murmur about General Taylor's involvement in ANY plots or schemes reference to unauthorized tasks."

You have also indicated that you have spent alot of time speculating on exactly what happened on Nov. 22, 1963, wondering if anyone you knew were involved in the events of that day (I hope I have read this information correctly).

With that in mind I would like to ask your opinion about some speculations that remain fixed in my mind.

Taylor seems very close to this Italian group during WWII and worked closely with John J. McCloy in negotiations dealing with the surrender by the Italians. I have information that places Taylor in Rome a second time with members of Walker's 3rd Regiment of the FSSF (infiltrating from Anzio) that coincides with information that is in Tompkins book about receiving "crystals" that allowed him to continue sending intelligence to the allies. Tompkins was also involved in North Africa and after the War was OSS Berlin with I believe Helms (?) and Angleton giving Tompkins an interesting perspective on these folks.

Considering Taylor's role in directing post war policy in Germany (along with McCloy) and Taylor's opposisiton to Kennedy's dealings with the Soviets around June of 1963 (in conjunction with McCloy), as well as Taylor's association with Walker, I have speculated that McCloy and Taylor may have been involved in planning the assassination of JFK.

Any thoughts about this possibility?

Jim Root

John

"Carleton Steven Coons, 23 June 1904 - 3 June 1981 -OSS "At Salerno an OSS detachment provided critical tactical intelligence to Darby's Rangers during their defense of the Sorrentino peninsula." Coons account reads like first hand inidcating he was there. The disastrous landing at Anzio followed, where the paths of a number of persons of interest in the events of '63 crossed."

The remnants of Darby's rangers were folded into the FSSF at Anzio and as we know the FSSF ended their existance with Edwin Walker in command.

Another crossed path.

Jim Root

John

Without getting into to much detail I see that you brought up Admiral Darlan. Needless to say I have been looking at that case for more years than I like to admit and was surprized to find that John B. Hurt had some very choice words to say about Darlan, all negitive, within some declassified documents that I attained a years or so ago. It appears that our relationship with Darlan, Vichy France and the secrete intelligence societies of France may have been very different than what is recorded in the average history book.

Suffice it to say in recent months I have began to look more closely for reasons why Oswald would have first landed in La Harve, France before backtracking to England and then traveling to Helsinki. My interest was sparked by the words that Hurt used to express his distain for Darlan. I believe the US was more involved in the assassination of Admiral Darlan than most people think.

Remember that the weapon used to assassinate Darlan had been owned by Carleton Stevens Coon who would be Ambassador to Morocco during the Kennedy administration. During WWII, as an OSS operative in North Africa, Coon advocated the creation and training of an assassination squad to be used by the SOE and OSS for sticky political situations. Perhaps by coincidence he was in North Africa at the time of the assassination of Admiral Darlan and it was a pistol that he owned that was used in the assassination. During the late 1950's and early 1960's Coon wrote several noted educational books and papers related to the supremacy of the white/european race. He used his position as an anthropologist to aid in his work as a CIA opperative in the Middle and Near East mapping potential sites for the airforce to use for espionage overflights of the Soviet Union and China (Francis Gary Powers flew from such a site).

So many connections but was Oswald's short visit to France in October of 1959 part of the plan to get him into the Soviet Union with the help of some persons involved in the field of intelligence that were in fact French? Perhaps.

Jim Root

John

"Walker was whisked out of Pearl Harbor, by plane, just days before Dec. 7, 1941 and that he had been associated with and was stationed in conjunction with the American signals intelligence listening post in Hawaii." What about his boss?

The person in charge of keeping and protecting the "Ultra Secrete" (the signals intelligence code breaking coup of the war) was John J. McCloy.

My research indicates that Walker was heavily involved in counterintelligence rather that the more obvious intelligence gathering nitty gritty. If true Walker may well have been working directly under McCloy.

For example:

The Kiska Operation during WWII is an interesting study. What was assumed to be the most sophisticated Japanese radar instillation was identified as being located on Kiska. The radar site was discovered after a specially fitted bomber was deployed on what is believed to be the first ever "ferret" mission (use of electronics to identify enemy radar and signals capabilities). The US and Canada invaded and took Attu first although it was further West than Kiska. In doing so they were able to totally isolate Kiska and blockaded Japanese shipping from approaching the island. In a daring operation the Japanese were able to send in submarines to evacuate the personal stationed on the island, something they did not usually do.

Walker was transferred to the First Special Services Force just prior to deployment for the Kiska operation. His 3rd Regiment would be the first to land and the capture of the partially destroyed radar instillation was accomplished after the landing party was met on shore by someone (Once Upon a Wartime by Peter Layton Cottigham).

Present to witness the landings at Kiska was none other than John J. McCloy.

The example places Walker in the middle of an intelligence coup that deals directly with signals intelligence. The importance to my research is this: Walker would be involved with McCloy and signals intelligence. Directly involved with signals intelligence is John B. Hurt someone who shares a name with a person that Lee Harvey Oswald attempted to contact after the assassination of JFK.

Jim Root

John

My interest in JFK assassination research began when I first read the Warren Report and learned of the "Strange Case of Major General Edwin Walker." I was not a fast starter but over the next several years I would occassionally attempt to learn more about Walker with very little success. Most of what I found mirrored exactly what you have put in your post with the addition of the role that General Walker played in the integration of schools in Little Rock, Arkansas.

I have had an interest in military history for as long as I can remember and have, over the years been a voracious reader in that particular field. The fact that Walker had attained the rank of Major General by 1957 led me to believe that he had played some role during WWII that might be of interest. Eventually I located a biography of Walker's military career. Two pieces to a puzzle jumped out at me that has directed my assassination research since.

Number 1: During WWII Walker was a part of and eventually commanded the First Special Services Force and:

Number 2: Walker was traveling in Europe at the same time that Lee Harvey Oswald defected to the Soviet Union.

These two bits of information were the foundation of a hypothisis that has directed my research for years. To this day what I have discovered does not allow me to believe that Walker was an innocent victim but rather a person who, at a minimum, knew alot more than what the "official" history would have us believe.

Over 100 members of units commanded by Walker during WWII would become OSS agents or future CIA operatives including William Colby. These persons were recruited because of the special training they had received in the elite unites in which they served and Walker commanded. I continue to believe that the fact that Walker commanded these units put him in a position to be a part of the recruitment of the operatives and to be a part of the CIA operations that these operatives participated in.

A careful study of Walker's career has led to continual finds that support my original hypothisis.

For example: The flight information that Antti helped me to uncover that opens up additional possibilities for Oswald's travel from London to Helsinki that supports the possibility that Walker would have been on the same plane as Oswald on Oct. 9, 1959.

That Walker was wisked out of Pearl Harbor, by plane, just days before Dec. 7, 1941 and that he had been associated with and was stationed in conjuction with the American signals intelligence listening post in Hawaii.

That Walker did at least two assignments of special interest to John J. McCloy during WWII.

That Walker was closely associated with Maxwell Taylor beginning in 1927.

That Walker along with Taylor, McCloy, Rowlett and Gardner were associated with John B. Hurt, a NSA employee who shares the name of a person that Lee Harvey Oswald attempted to contact while he was in custody for the assassination of John F. Kennedy and who played a key role in breaking Japanese code prior to and during WWII.

I have evidence that stongly suggests that Walker was engaged in military intelligence activities as early as 1933 and counterintelligence activities by 1935. Further information puts Walker in a postition to engage in domestic spying on vast numbers of US citizens during the 1930's. This skill was further developed during his career when, both at the end of WWII and during the Korean War, Walker was in charge of screening and returning 100's of thousands of prisoners of war to their home countries (during the Korean War this was done under the command of Maxwell Taylor). Was Walker identifing potential intelligence assets?

That during the tenure of Maxwell Taylor as Chief of Staff of the Army, Taylor had four crisis to deal with. In two of these crisis (First Straits of Taiwan Crisis and Little Rock) Taylor assigned his old friend Edwin Walker to successfully deal with the situation.

When you add to this the Taylor - McCloy association that begins during WWII and the negotiations with the Italians for their surrender, continues with the occupation of Germany and extends to their united opposition to Kennedy's position on Nuclear Arms talks, you add an additional flavor to the mix with Walker and his association to the assassination.

That John J. McCloy would send a letter to Walker in June of 1963 is perhaps one coincidence to many in the string of information that I have gathered to allow me to believe that the assassination of JFk was the work of just one lone person.

Etc., etc., etc.

Jim Root

Relevent to a post I just made.

J. Raymond

The information comes from two sources and is drawn together by myself. Together the information from these two sources, information gathered 30 years apart, provides what I believe is a very significant piece of the assassination puzzle that the Warren Commission neglected to investigate.

The first bit of information comes from the Testimony of James Patrick Hosty before the Warren Commission:

“Mr. HOSTY. The next day was the 1st of November. I worked in the Fort Worth area in the morning and on my way back from the Fort Worth area at approximately 2:30 p.m., I stopped at the residence of Mrs. Ruth Paine, 2515 West Fifth Street, and identified myself as a special agent of the FBI, and asked if I could talk to her. She was very cordial and friendly, invited me into the house. At this time, she was the only one in the living room. Her small children were taking their nape, and apparently Marina Oswald and her children were, also napping…..

“Mr. STERN. Now, tell us in detail of your interview with Mrs. Paine starting from the time you rang the doorbell.

Mr. HOSTY. All right. As I say, when I entered the house I immediately identified myself. I showed her my credentials, identified myself as a special agent of the FBI, and requested to talk to her. She invited me into the house.

Mr. STERN. Did she seemed surprised at your visit?

Mr. HOSTY. No, she didn't. She was quite friendly and invited me in, said this is the first time she had ever met an FBI agent. Very cordial. As I say, it is my recollection I sat here on the couch and she sat across the room from me. I then told her the purpose of my visit, that I was interested in locating the whereabouts of Lee Oswald. She readily admitted that Mrs. Marina Oswald and Lee Oswald's two children were staying with her. She said that Lee Oswald was living somewhere in Dallas. She didn't know where. She said it was in the Oak Cliff area but she didn't have his address. I asked her if she knew where he worked. After a moment's hesitation, she told me that he worked at the Texas School Book Depository near the downtown area of Dallas. She didn't have the exact address, and it is my recollection that we went to the phone book and looked it up, found it to be 411 Elm Street.

Mr. STERN. You looked it up while you were there?

Mr. HOSTY. Yes; that is my recollection that we looked it up in her telephone book to show it at 411 Elm Street, Dallas, Tex. She told me at this time that she did not know where he was living, but she thought she could find out and she would let me know…..

“Mr. HOSTY. On Monday morning, I made a pretext telephone call to the Texas School Book Depository, I called up and asked for the personnel department, asked if a Lee Oswald was employed there. They said yes, he was. I said what address does he show? They said 2515 West Fifth Street, Irving, Tex., which I knew not to be his correct address. I then sent a communication, airmail communication to the New Orleans office advising them--and to the headquarters of the FBI advising them--and then instructing the New Orleans office to make the Dallas office the office of origin. We were now assuming control, because he had now been verified in our division…..

“Mr. HOSTY. Let me see. Part of it would have, this paragraph on page 11, this November 1, Mrs. Ruth Paine was interviewed. This appeared in the communication I sent out to the New Orleans office advising them where he was employed.

Mr. DULLES. When was that sent?

Mr. HOSTY. The 4th of November, sir…..

“Mr. HOSTY. Well, actually, November 4 would be our request to have the case transferred back to Dallas office of origin.

Mr. STERN. I think you ought to make clear, Mr. Hosty, to Mr. Dulles, that early in October you started doing something for the New Orleans office at their request.

Mr. HOSTY. Yes

Mr. STERN. New Orleans found that they couldn't locate Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans.

Mr. DULLES. He had left in the meantime?

Mr. HOSTY. Right.

Mr. STERN. Yes; from their leads he seemed to have gone back into the Dallas area, and they asked the Dallas office to see if they could locate him. Mr. Hosty was doing this work at the end of October and the beginning of November when he ran these interviews. Just to complete that, Mr. Hosty, you expected, did you not, that the case would be reassigned?

Mr. HOSTY. Oh, yes.

Mr. STERN. To the Dallas office?

Mr. HOSTY. Oh, yes. This was tantamount to requesting it be shifted to us, yes, when I sent this communication.

Mr. STERN. And you were beginning to think in terms of the case being your problem again?

Mr. HOSTY. Right.

Mr. STERN. Even though formally at the time you were only----

Mr. HOSTY. Auxiliary office.

Mr. STERN. Operating on the request of the New Orleans office to try to locate him, is that correct?

Mr. HOSTY. That is correct.

Mr. McCLOY. This has all been previously testified to?

Mr. DULLES. I am sorry to have missed that.

Mr. HOSTY. That is all right, Mr. Dulles, that is entirely all right.

Mr. DULLES. Just one question. Are cases of this kind administratively transferred by agreement between two offices, or does that have to go up to Washington?

Mr. HOSTY. Washington always gets a copy of these communications. They know what we are doing. Actually the original is sent to Washington, and a carbon is sent to the other field office.”

Thirty years later an infomation gathered by Jefferson Morley and John Newman would confirm potions of James Hosty's testimony. What is missing from the Morley article is the November 4th Hosty note that was never assigned an exhibit number. Why?

Quoting from the article, “What Jane Roman Said” by Jefferson Morley:

“Newman then reviewed the routing slips on two documents about Oswald that Roman herself had received in September 1963.

The first was the FBI report from agent Hosty in Dallas. Hosty reported on Oswald’s address in the summer of 1963 and his recent leftist political activities, including his subscription to the Socialist Worker newspaper.The second report was more provocative. It was a report from the FBI in New Orleans, dated September 23, 1963. Oswald, it seemed, had gotten arrested. He had been handing out FPCC pamphlets on a street corner in New Orleans on August 9, 1963 when he was confronted by some members of the militantly anti-Castro group called the Directorio Revolucionario Estudantil or DRE, which was known to North American newspaper readers as the Cuban Student Directorate. An altercation ensued. Oswald and some of the Cubans were arrested. An agent in the New Orleans office of the FBI wrote up a report and sent it to Washington.”

This exchange confirms Hosty’s testimony but shows that Jane Roman was in a position, in the Offices of the CIA, to transfer the information to Richard Helms. But no mention is made of the November 4th note because once again no exhibit number was ever assigned to that note therefore Morley had no access to the November 4th note.

Is it logical to assume that the office of Richard Helms was in fact aware of exactly where Lee Harvey Oswald was working before the route of the motorcade was determined in Washington? I believe so.

Quoting further from Morley’s article:

“All we had was the FBI report on the arrest of Oswald and his antagonists in the Cuban Student Directorate that was forwarded to the CIA. The routing slip showed that Roman signed for it on October 4, 1963.”

“On October 8, 1963, Scott sent a cable to headquarters in Washington asking for more information about Oswald. Two days later, headquarters sent a response.”

“The logical conclusion: On October 10, 1963 the “latest HDQS info” on Oswald wasn’t a 17-month old State Department memo speculating about Oswald’s state of mind. It was a month-old FBI document about Oswald’s contacts with a CIA-sponsored organization. And Jane Roman—if she had done her job—had known it.”

“The markings at the bottom of the document indicated which offices and which officers had been consulted. Jane Roman was identified as one of the officers who had seen in the cable “in draft form.” The cable was also seen by an “authenticating officer” whose task it was to vouch for its contents. That was J.C. King, the chief of all CIA operations in the Western Hemisphere. Finally, the cable had to be signed by a “releasing officer” who approved the policy contents of the message. That was Tom Karamessines, who served as top deputy to covert operations chief, Richard Helms.”

We can speculate about many things but two conclusions can be drawn, without a doubt, information about the movements of Lee Harvey Oswald were being monitored by the top echelons of US Intelligence and these movements began being monitored shortly after the assassination attempt on the life of Edwin

Walker.

Once again from the testimony of James Patrick Hosty:

“Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2 advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva Fidel.'"

Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?

Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did not attempt to verify it.

Mr. STERN. When you record this as something that an informant advised about on April 21, that doesn't mean he advised you or the Dallas office on April 21?

Mr. HOSTY. That is right.

Mr. STERN. Did this information come from another part of the FBI?

Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir; it came from the New York office of the FBI. They were advised on the 21st of April.

Mr. STERN. But the information didn't get to you until some time after?

Mr. HOSTY. In June, I believe.

Mr. STERN. Did you have any information apart from this that there was an organization active in the Dallas area called, "The Fair Play for Cuba Committee"?

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; we had no information of any organization by that name.

Mr. STERN. Had you at this time ever heard of such an organization?

Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir; I had.

Mr. STERN. In what connection?

Mr. HOSTY. The New York office had advised all offices of the FBI to be on the alert for the possible formation of chapters of this organization which was headquartered in New York.

Mr. STERN. Had you investigated the Dallas area in that connection?

Mr. HOSTY. We had checked our sources, I had and other agents assigned to the internal security division had checked sources. We were on the alert for it.

Mr. STERN. And you found what?

Mr. HOSTY. We found no evidence that there was any such organization in Dallas.”

This testimony implies that within days of the assassination attempt on General Walker someone ordered the FBI to begin following Oswald’s movements. The pretense for this was Oswald's involvement in "The Fair Play for Cuba Committee" which was not, according to agent Hosty, operating in the Dallas area.

I speculate that if it were possible that someone knew Oswald would have had a reason to shoot at Walker they would create a pretense to monitor his movements. Or if someone wanted to set up Oswald as a “patsy” in an assassination plot of the President this makes sense as well.

I suggest that it was not the Fair Play for Cuba Commitee that was of inerest to the "Big Fish."

Jim Root

Bill

The primary question remains, "COULD Oswald have been a participant in the conspiracy?

Jim Root

posted twice by accident

All

I have often asked the question, "Could a conspiracy exist that included Lee Harvey Oswald as a shooter?" and continue my personal quest with this possibility in mind.

Remaining open to this possibility one could speculate that the greatest success of the conspirators would have been to twist the minds of a majority of Americans to discount the possibility that Oswald was a participant within the conspiracy. A simple reason why the government would assist in a coverup of the facts about Oswald could be easily explained if Oswald were in fact an intelligence "asset" of the United States and even, perhaps, an intelligence "asset" of the Soviets. If this potentially damaging information were to have been exposed at the time could it have jepordized US Intelligence interests worldwide? If so a coverup of the true facts would not only have been a priority of the US Government it would have been a necessity of the highest order.

One fact does remain that almost everyone on this forum can agree upon, after 43 years no one theory has come to light that a majority of persons can agree upon that explains, in a satisfactory manner to the majority, the events of November 22, 1963.

For myself I have discovered a connection between four men ( John J. McCloy, Maxwell Taylor, Edwin Walker and Lee Harvey Oswald) that centers around a man named John Hurt. In Oswald's case we know only that he attempted to contact someone with this name. The other three all had an association with a man employed by the NSA and its predeseors between 1930 and 1963 by the name of John B. Hurt whose work form 1947 to 1963 is still classified to this day. It is easy to speculate that the work associated with John B. Hurt that is still classified to this day would be intelligence of the highest order of security. If Lee Harvey Oswald was associated with this man in any way we can understand why he not only had to be eliminated himself but that the truth of the facts surrounding the life of Lee Harvey Oswald would have to be concealed from the American public.

The fact that Oswald attempted to contact someone named John Hurt, the fact that this information was left out of the Warren Commission Report, the fact that Frank Rowlett and Meredith Gardner (the two men assigned by the NSA to research potential intelligence connections to Oswald) were both closely associated with John B. Hurt has led me to speculate that Oswald was not only an intelligence "asset" but an asset that had been used to assure the failure of the Paris Summit of May 1960. The information that I have gathered shows that John J. McCloy expressed concern about the potential damage of a Limited Test Ban Treaty that could be forced upon the United States at this Paris Summit as early as November of 1959 (just days after Lee Harvey Oswald entered the Soviet Union via the only Soviet Embassy in the world that could issue a visa within days without approval from Moscow). That Lee Harvey Oswald was associated with the U-2 and that it was the failure of Francis Gary Powers U-2 flight over Soviet territory that led to the failure of the Paris Summit cannot, in my opinion, be discounted.

Rather than accept the belief that someone placed Oswald in the TSBD before the assassination it is my belief that the motorcade was directed past Oswald's place of employment after intelligence agencies in Washington D. C. had been alerted to Oswald's place of employment (Hosty note of Nov. 4, 1963, another piece of evidence that was never given a commission exhibit number and seems lost from history). This fact supports, in my opinion, a conspiracy at the highest levels of government because only those at the highest levels had the access to this information.

Were US Intelligence Agencies aware of Oswald's propensity toward violence and did they know that he had a weapon capable of being used to assassinate a President? Once again we can look at the association between the same four men, Edwin Walker, Maxwell Taylor, John J. McCloy and Lee Harvey Oswald.

Lee Harvey Oswald's trip from London to Helsinki, Finland remains a mystery although the flight infomation, complete with passenger names, was available to the Warren Commission but never presented to them. Once again I have speculated on why this occured and discovered that Edwin Walker was traveling in Europe at the same time. With the help of Antti Hynoonen we discovered potential routes that could have been used by both men while traveling during this critical period in time. While not proof positive it is interesting to speculate that if these two men did in fact meet on October 9, 1959, Lee Harvey Oswald may have had a motive to later attempt to assassinate Edwin Walker. That the attempted assassination of Edwin Walker would become a foundation upon the Warren Commissions "lone nut" scenario would lose all credibility if Oswald had in fact had contact with Walker in 1959.

Oswald's speech at Spring Hill College on July 27, 1963 supports the fact that Oswald was not as confused about the variations of Socialism and Communisum as the Warren Commission would have us believe. It also shows that he was very much aware of the failure of the Paris Summit. Could his participation, conscious or manipulated, in the failure of the Paris Summit have driven him to attempt to assassinate Walker (if Walker was the person who had helped him gain entry into the Soviet Union I believe the possibility is greatly enhanced)? Was the assassination of JFK an attempt to reveal to the world the evil workings of the major powers during the cold war? Does the statement (which Paul May quotes), "They've taken me in because of the fact I lived in the Soviet Union; I'm just a patsy!", take on a totally different meaning if in fact Oswald did have a stroy to tell and it begins with his defection to the Soviet Union and the information that he carried with him at that time?

I believe the coincidence of the McCloy - Walker letter of June 12, 1963 was not a coincidence. The subject matter was the Sylvannus Thayer Award. In the life of Sylvannus Thayer and the formation of a professional corp of military personal trained at the United States Military Accademy at West Point, Nov. 22 is a day of special signifigance. That Walker, McCloy and Taylor all made reference to Thayer within a one week period and that that one week encompassed Kennedy's change of direction on Nuclear Disarmament Talks leads to some interesting points to speculate upon. That this change of position was fought by Taylor and openly opposed by Walker is factually supported. That this change redirected American Foreign Policy from an Asian emphisis to a Pro European position dispite a nearly twenty year Asian approach is, in my opinion significant to the events of Nov. 22, 1963 (Prouty).

But then if Oswald were not a participant in the assassination all of the above is just coincidence.

Jim Root

Tony

I to have speculated on the probability of many events surrounding the assassination of JFK. I believe that I have found consistant answers for many of the events but to accept these answers one would have to leave open the possibility of a conspiracy at the highest levels of government to assassinate the President.

For example you stated:

"You could ask how did Oswald manage to get a job working in a tall building overlooking part of the presidential motorcade route, where passing cars could only travel slowly, just a few weeks before Kennedy's visit? Conspiracy theorists can speculate as to which hidden forces might have been at work to place Oswald in the School Book Depository when JFK visited Dallas. The defenders of the Warren Commission can only offer one explanation as to how this event happened and that is to say that it happened by chance. Of course this does not mean that the explanation is not valid as events do occur by chance all the time."

I discover that FBI Agent Hosty, in his testimony before the Warren Commission, stated that he had interviewed Mrs. Paine and didscovered that Oswald was working in the School Book Depository Building and reported this information in the normal manner that he had made a report about Oswald leaving the Dallas area for New Orleans. The difference between this report and the New Orleans report is that the New Orleans report was given an exhibit number and the report about Oswald's work address was never produced or given an exhibit number.

We have learned from the work of Jefferson Morley and John Newman that Hosty's New Orleans note made it to the office of Richard Helms within about a week of being written. We can assume that the "work address" note would have made it to Helms in about the same amount of time. This would put the information about where Oswald was working in the hands of the assisstant director of the CIA sometime around the 11th of November, 1963 (at or arround the same time that the motorcade route was being planned).

The probability of Oswald getting a job at the TSBD Building could well have been a chance occurance. The probability of the motorcade being directed past where Oswald worked (decission made in Washington) with the intention of an assassination event occurring was not, in my opinion, a chance occurance.

That Lee Harvey Oswald was traveling in Europe at the same time that Edwin Walker was traveling in Europe is perhaps a chance occurance. The fact that Lee Harvey Oswald used an extra travel day, showed up in Helsinki (the only embassy in Europe where a visa could be issued to enter Russia within days was located), went to the Soviet Union with First Class Intourist Vouchers in hand and followed the directions of a note that was written by Ambassador Hickerson (not produced until the HSCA) to the tee and that that note from Hickerson to the State Department was written on Oswald's "extra" travel day defies being a simple chance occurances. By chance could Walker have passed the information to Oswald? We will never know for sure because by chance the CIA never produced the flight records that showed how and with whom Oswald traveled from London to Helsinki (although this information was readily available at the time).

That John J. McCloy would pen a note to Edwin Walker some five months before the assassination of JFK could be a chance occurance just as the fact that Walker did at least two specific missions during WWII for John J. McCloy. That the subject of the note would center around the Sylvanus Thayer Award is interesting until one realizes that Nov. 22, 1818 is of great importance in the life of Thayer, the Military Accademy

at West Point and the beginning of military professionalism in America.

That the National Security Agency would assign Frank Rowlett and Meredith Gardner to research Oswald's personal effects for any intelligence connections could have been just by chance. That both of these men were associated with John B. Hurt (a man that shared, at minimum, a name with a person that Lee Harvey Oswald attempted to contact the night before his own death) is stranger than fiction. That the Warren Commission would leave this information out of the Warren Report (The Raleigh Call) is beyond being a simple chance occurance. That John J. McCloy would use information provided by John B. Hurt during some of the most important discussions of WWII again may be just a chance occurrance once again but when you add that Edwin Walker first became associated with the work done by the group that Hurt was involved with in 1935, you begin to question the possibility of simple chance coming into play.

I could go on and on! When we speak of chance occurances the only one who had no chance was Kennedy.

Jim Root

John

You stated:

"Michael Scott eventually got his father's manuscript back from the CIA. However, 150 pages were missing. Chapters 13 to 16 were deleted in their entirety. In fact, everything about his life after 1947 had been removed on grounds of national security."

I have found that several characters caught up in the assassination web worked in some area that became classified beginning in 1947, in particular John B. Hurt who I believe may have been the person that Lee Harvey Oswald attempted to contact the evening before he was murdered.

Win Scott seems to have been involved in "operation Stella Polaris" near the end of WWII. Information about the movement of Finnish crptologist from Finland to Sweeden, with the help of the Japanese, was intercepted by US Intelligence (Hurt seems to have been involved here). These cryptologist were working on breaking Soviet codes. While the information gained from this operation has always been officially downplayed we find that the 1947 date brings another important character onto the scene, Meridith Gardner, the man who the Warren Commission via the NSA via the CIA would assign to investigate potential intelligence links to Lee Harvey Oswald. I continue to ask myself, "Why does the common thread of Soviet Code breaking continue to pop up surrounding the assassination of JFK?"

John B. Hurt's work from 1947 till his retirement from the NSA is to this day still classified.

From an earlier post of mine:

"Mr. Gardner decided that merely decrypting VENONA messages was not enough if the decrypts could not be put to good use. He sent a memo, “Special Report #1,” to a small number of Army Security Agency (ASA) seniors in the summer of 1947, describing what sort of intelligence VENONA could provide. He also included samples of the material being recovered. Mr. Gardner’s report helped the Army’s leadership to recognize the value of VENONA, leading to cooperation between the ASA (later NSA) and the FBI in the identification of Soviet agents working in the United States."

Would the Code breaking angle be so important to US Intelligence that it would rally every agency to assist in covering up the true assassiantion story?

If so the conspirators would have had to be in a position to know that this would be done and to direct the Warren Commission to this end (ie John J. McCloy?).

Jim Root

Has anyone ever heard of this man being associated with the assassination of John F. Kennedy? He does have an interesting backround with some interesting connections but I have never seen his name mentioned with any conspiracy theories (not to be confused with his son who also had a career with the State Department).

During WWII, as an OSS operative in North Africa, he advocated the creation and training of an assassination squad to be used by the SOE and OSS for sticky political situations. Perhaps by coincidence he was in North Africa at the time of the assassination of Admiral Darlan and it was a pistol that he owned that was used in the assassination. During the late 1950's and early 1960's Coon wrote several noted educational books and papers related to the supremacy of the white/european race. He used his position as an anthropologist to aid in his work as a CIA opperative in the Middle and Near East mapping potential sites for the airforce to use for espionage overflights of the Soviet Union and China (Francis Gary Powers flew from such a site).

Just curious.